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Freiwillige
10-21-2008, 08:36 PM
Why does the spit IX have the later style spit tail? every spit IX I have seen looked more like the V.

Why does the Spit VII look more advanced than the IX?

ImpStarDuece
10-21-2008, 08:52 PM
The later build Mk IXs, particularly those with the Merlin 66 or 70, got the pointed style rudder to deal with the torque from the extra horsepower these engines delivered. The enlarged rudder was almost universal on the Mk IXe, but less common on the earlier sub-types.

The inital Mk IXs, with the 1,565 hp Merlin 61 or 1,710 Merlin 63/63A, had the classic Spifire style rounded rudder. The Mk IX was essentially just an expedient, to fit a two stage Merlin into the developed Mk II/Vc airframe.

The later Spitfire VII looks more advanced than the Spitfire IX because it is more advanced. Just because the Mark number is higher, does not mean it went into production or combat earlier. Spitfires get confusing that way.

The Mk VII/VIII was an attempt to update and reinforce the Spitfire airframe to better deal with the heavier and more powerful Merlins, as well as to give it more range and correct some of the problems that the type experienced, such as aileron float causing flutter. The also added a retractable tail wheel, and new riveting and finishing techniques. The Mk VII was a bit of a failure because its the heavy perspex of its pressurised cockpit was difficult to see out of.

I'm at work at the moment, but I'm sure there is someone with access to Morgan and Shacklady, or Alfred Price, that can fill you in on more of the details.

VW-IceFire
10-21-2008, 10:44 PM
ImpStar you hit it right out of the park on all accounts.

The IX was a stop gap measure to get the Merlin 61 and later 66/70 engines into the Spitfire V airframe. Which if you realize is really just a modification of the Mark I/II airframe so its basically the same fighter stretching back to its inception.

The Mark VIII was to be the premier variant loaded with the Merlin 60 series with a variety of under the skin changes and a new tail and so forth. Also the VIII was the first to be test fitted with a bubble canopy and formed the basis of the XIV and later models.

But the IX was such a success that it continued to pour out from the factories with modifications from the VIII design where possible. The VIIIs ended up mostly in Italy and Asia and the IX and XVI (also related to the I/II/V/IX line) in Europe.

GregGal
10-22-2008, 01:15 AM
I prefer the 1942-43 style Spitfire IX. It's so beautiful! Those pointed fins and big fat carburator intakes ruin her beauty.

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/7941/armstrongjf7.jpg

Xiolablu3
10-22-2008, 07:36 AM
Yeah, rather than upset production of the MkIX, they made small improvements over time to bring in MkVIII improvements onto the mkIX.

This is why the earlier mkIX's were nothing more than a MkV airframe with the rounded tail. Later MkIX's incorporated the MkVIII's pointed rudder. Later MkIX's also incorporated more of the MkVIII's improments.

The MkVIII was the 3rd most produced SPitfire, the MkIX was the 1st most produced if you include the basically identical but built in the US Mk XVI.

tomtheyak
10-22-2008, 11:24 AM
I think the actual direction of the question posted originally is "why did the modeller choose to model the taller ruddered variant when the smaller example was more prolific and better representative of the MkIX", which is something I have wondered myself...

Freiwillige
10-22-2008, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by tomtheyak:
I think the actual direction of the question posted originally is "why did the modeller choose to model the taller ruddered variant when the smaller example was more prolific and better representative of the MkIX", which is something I have wondered myself...

Exactly Tomtheyak! And where did you find that round tailed mkIX Gregal? Ive searched AAA.

Freiwillige
10-22-2008, 10:26 PM
Bump on the mk v tail for spit IX....anybody?
I know links arent allowed but is it at AAA?

WTE_Galway
10-23-2008, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
Bump on the mk v tail for spit IX....anybody?
I know links arent allowed but is it at AAA?

The one in that screenshot looks similar to the CFS3 mk.IX to me.

Freiwillige
10-23-2008, 02:41 AM
I could have sworn I saw that mod at AAA but that was when I didnt have IL2 installed, Or am I just crazy?

ImpStarDuece
10-23-2008, 05:24 AM
My guesses as to why we have a pointed rudder variant is that you can simply model more sub variants of the Mk IX with the pointed rudder than the classic rudder, and it is also more represntative of the Mk IX sub types we have (LF, HF, and 'e' wing variants).

As to why the Mk VIII looks more 'modern' than the Mk IX: the Mk IX was modeled for the Aces Expansion Pack, while the Mk VIII was modeled for Pacific Fighters, and I wouldn't be surprised if it had a few more polygons.

Freiwillige
10-23-2008, 05:32 AM
But wasnt the MkIX just a MkV with a bigger motor? I know that the IX was a stopgap measure built off of the MkV to deal with the 190. And all the aviation books and photo's ive seen of a MkIX show it looking like a Mkv with the new twin oil coolers underneith.

"why did the modeller choose to model the taller ruddered variant when the smaller example was more prolific and better representative of the MkIX" (I couldnt put it better.)

ImpStarDuece
10-23-2008, 03:40 PM
With reference to the real world classic vs pointed rudder questions, I answered that in my first post.

To quote myself: "later build Mk IXs, particularly those with the Merlin 66 or 70, got the pointed style rudder to deal with the torque from the extra horsepower these engines delivered. The enlarged rudder was almost universal on the Mk IXe, but less common on the earlier sub-types"

As to in-game, well, I already made a guess: "you can simply model more sub variants of the Mk IX with the pointed rudder than the classic rudder, and it is also more represntative of the Mk IX sub types we have (LF, HF, and 'e' wing variants)."

Based off in game performance, the Spitfires we have are all later build Merlin 66 or Merlin 70 powered variants. Therefore, having the pointed rudder, originally designed for the Mk XII, makes sense.

If we had the Merlin 61 powered variant, or even one of the late 1942/early 1943 Merlin 63 variants, it would make more sense to have a rounded rudder. But we don't have this, so we don't have the rounded rudder.

Clear?

Freiwillige
10-23-2008, 06:58 PM
Dont take me the wrong way Imp your explanation is accurate. It just seems cocked to me not to have the more common, More produced variant in the sim. I had beleived previously that the pointed tail came from the tear drop canopy disturbing airflow over the tail. I guess I am just dissapointed that the MkIX we have in the game is soooo butt ugly do as much to the wrong shape on the lower half as to the tall tail itself. Some of Olegs models (P-40E comes to mind) just makes me scratch my head in disbeleif. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif