PDA

View Full Version : PETITION: AAA stop shooting on Parashutes!



XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 10:15 PM
If you feel the same, pls support this tread by bumping it. ;-)

**************
Member of 88-IAP: http://www.88-iap.de , sokol@88-iap.de
Member of Virtual Online War team: http://www.vow-hq.com

88.IAP>Sokol
in Hyperlobby: http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/



Message Edited on 11/30/0310:16PM by Cokol_88IAP

XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 10:15 PM
If you feel the same, pls support this tread by bumping it. ;-)

**************
Member of 88-IAP: http://www.88-iap.de , sokol@88-iap.de
Member of Virtual Online War team: http://www.vow-hq.com

88.IAP>Sokol
in Hyperlobby: http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/



Message Edited on 11/30/0310:16PM by Cokol_88IAP

XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 10:19 PM
Bump

"HyperLobby 4 Ever"

XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 10:20 PM
bump---

XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 10:35 PM
bump
say no to meat pancakes.


whineingu /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 10:44 PM
Say no to nut cutlets

http://server2.uploadit.org/files/291003-01anoseart_us_08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 11:22 PM
bumpity bump,

I hate it myself. Very sadistic.

XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 11:44 PM
Well, I can agree its annoying that they fire on Parachutes when there are other enemy planes nearby.

Its also unrealistic since in real they would prefer to take the pilot prisoner.

But what should be a bigger issue is the fact that Ambulances sometimes are targets that one have to destroy in order to complete a mission.

Now I dont mind blowing up ambulances, but the problem is that people might get the wrong knowledge. They may believe that in war it is ok to attack ambulances which it isnt.

--
"Too late ... No time."
Concorde pilot Christian Marty, moments before the supersonic jet crashed into a hotel in Gonesse on the outskirts of Paris.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 12:29 AM
Bump

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 12:43 AM
bump!

GATO_LOCO

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 12:55 AM
It happened...

Russians were known for their hatred of german pilots on the front and often shot them as soon as captured.

British farmers were known to take pot shots at parashutes, and sometimes wounding even fellow brits.

Probably countless other tails of ungentlemanly behaviour.. but it was war after all.





Winston, You're drunk!

Bessie, You're ugly. But in the morning I shall be sober.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 01:01 AM
bump

"... l'ignorance est de mise"

"C'est pour ├ža que c'est bon/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif c'est long/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif " --) Uf-Josse

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 01:40 AM
Unfortunatly my reply will bump this sorry little thread, but I felt it necessary to put in my two cents. I had to laugh reading it, in fact I thought it was a troll. "Ungentlemenly" to shoot a pilot in the chute? I guess the "gentlemenly" thing to do is strafe them before they get off the ground with 8 .50cal. screaming like stuck pigs. Or...dropping 1000lb bombs on their heads blowing them apart (in theory) would be a more "gentlemenly" option. Read up about WW2, the pilots knew they could get shot at trying to bail, so they would wait until the last second to pull their chutes, thus reducing the amount of time the AAA has to home in on their chute and take them down. Utilize this knowledge the next time you have to bail.


And for all you vulchwhiners....

There are multiple ways to kill the enemy, only one is the actual dogfight. More planes were taken out on the ground than shot out of the sky. I guess its less "wussy" to fly super uber airplanes around in tight circles or to boom and zoom. Certainly alot more risk to the pilot to get down and dirty to destroy the enemy at their base. If you can't protect your own home base, that's your problem, not mine. To give you a chance to wipe your tears away and grab a tissue, I usually vulch in inferior airplanes such as the P11, Brewster Buffalo and P-47. Yes, the latter is inferior, it has horrible turn characteristics, weighs a dozen tons and is quickly outrun by anything better than an I-153. The Buffalo seems to have paper wings, and one hit of AAA and they snap like a twig. We all know why the P-11 is a POS.

It's (virtual) war people, stop whining when you get shot at, whether in the chute, on the ground or anywhere inbetween.

http://www.80snostalgia.com/classictv/airwolf/pic1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 02:52 AM
Not to mention the majority of dogfights were over before the victim was aware of a enemy attacking.

Far removed from the grueling dogfights between two knights of the sky.





Winston, You're drunk!

Bessie, You're ugly. But in the morning I shall be sober.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 03:15 AM
I have to agree with waterinthefuel here. The original poster`s post is silly mainly because it gives no real reason for his request to change /alter the AAA shooting at parachutes.

What`s the reason? It annoys you? A pain in online dogfights? A pain in offline campaigns? It`s not fair? Not right? AI wasting ammo? what?

I`ll agree AI sometimes appears too fixated on bailers. Perhaps they could every now and then not shoot at bailers.

But it was war and war is hell. And if the complainers had ever bothered to read up on the Russian front war, it was a pitiless, bitter conflict where no quarter was given and non expected. I`ve read about 109 fighters letting crippled B17s go, but never of them doing the same for Russia and vice versa.

To be honest AAA shooting at bailers is a walk on a sunny day compared to the reality at the time. You really should read the history. Check the library books.

p.s. Oh and AAA does shoot at any enemy planes first and turn on bailers only when all enemy are down or not near enough. I`ve seen it many times.

p.p.s Of course I won`t shoot bailers (even AI ones), that`s just me, and I`m sure sometimes a guy showed mercy to a helpless enemy. There`s always the exception...


"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).



Message Edited on 12/01/0302:22AM by SeaFireLIV

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 03:44 AM
SeaFireIV::
-- p.s. Oh and AAA does shoot at any enemy planes first and
-- turn on bailers only when all enemy are down or not near
-- enough. I`ve seen it many times.

Thank You!

AA also shoots airborne soldiers dropped from Ju~52. Should AA let attacking enemy soldiers parachute down safely among friendly forces? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

If you like, and this is how I think of it, think of AA killing the shot down parachutist as the AA "capturing" the parachutist, as shot down crewmembers landing near enemy AA are landing behind enemy lines anyway, and thus are captured and so are out of the campaign.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 08:43 AM
Bump /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

< http://www.Jg2001.de >
<img src=http://home.pages.at/prokes/Wulfp51.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 08:45 AM
i support the petition

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 09:39 AM
Lois::
-- AA also shoots airborne soldiers dropped from Ju~52.
-- Should AA let attacking enemy soldiers parachute down
-- safely among friendly forces? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

-- If you like, and this is how I think of it, think of AA
-- killing the shot down parachutist as the AA "capturing"
-- the parachutist, as shot down crewmembers landing near
-- enemy AA are landing behind enemy lines anyway, and thus
-- are captured and so are out of the campaign.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 10:37 AM
Bump.

The war is hell, but still there were conventions. Yes, there are examples of cruel behaviour - killing prisoners, blowing up hospitals, strafing civil refugees - but these were exceptions rather than rules.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 10:39 AM
Let's assume this war is real for a moment. You shoot down a pilot in his territory, just a few thousand feet from his base. If you do not shoot him in the chute his fellow soldiers can/will pick him up, dust him off, and he'll be shooting at you again that afternoon in a fresh airplane, and he'll be madder then hell.

In a game where "refly" is an immediate option, the idea that getting shot in the chute is somehow wrong is absolutely ludicrous. If you want a politically correct game, go play solitaire. If you want all out war, play Forgotten Battles!

http://www.80snostalgia.com/classictv/airwolf/pic1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 10:49 AM
waterinthefuel wrote:
- Let's assume this war is real for a moment. You
- shoot down a pilot in his territory, just a few
- thousand feet from his base. If you do not shoot him
- in the chute his fellow soldiers can/will pick him
- up, dust him off, and he'll be shooting at you again
- that afternoon in a fresh airplane, and he'll be
- madder then hell.

But if you do shoot him, you are a war criminal.

It is real people fighting wars. Real 20 years old boys, conscripted from their farms and torn from their loving families. In many cases they keep in memory that the soldiers on the other side are boys in the same situation.

How many stories of German fighters escorting a badly damaged Allied bomber did we see in these boards? A thing that I consider exageration, actually...

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 10:58 AM
-- But if you do shoot him, you are a war criminal.

Only if his side loses the WAR.



Lois wrote::
-- AA also shoots airborne soldiers dropped from Ju~52.
-- Should AA let enemy soldiers land safely among friendly troops? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 11:01 AM
All nations were shooting in parachuters....
It doesn't matter Germans, Russians Britush or USA.
In all these nations docs we may find the official order to shot them down....

Why? Its a very simple logic: Killed pilot will never return back in a new airrcraft.

So.... Germans were known shooting the crash landed pilots, that tried to escape.... And were shooting these that bailed out.... After the war is possible to write anything, but really it was.

So... Americans were shooting bailed out German pilots...

So.... Churchil had special order to shot them as well.....

So... Russians were doing the same.


So... any myth that they were Knights in post war litherature is really myths... It is known that if your friend was just killed and the pilot that did it is in front of you, I don't think that there you will feel like a knight... /i/smilies/16x16_robot-sad.gif


We don't plan to change AAA AI. That will require complete rewriting of that titem. And for that we already have no time.


Menthol_moose wrote:
- It happened...
-
- Russians were known for their hatred of german
- pilots on the front and often shot them as soon as
- captured.
-
- British farmers were known to take pot shots at
- parashutes, and sometimes wounding even fellow
- brits.
-
- Probably countless other tails of ungentlemanly
- behaviour.. but it was war after all.
-
-
-
-
-
-
- Winston, You're drunk!
-
- Bessie, You're ugly. But in the morning I shall be
- sober.



Oleg Maddox
1C:Maddox Games

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 11:26 AM
From the magazine flypast ..
article "bloody bismark"

"another big day came on march 5 when we had to go out and strafe hundreds of japanese survivors in barges, lifeboats, rafts and wreckage. It was not at all a nice job, but we had to remind ourselves that they would have killed as many of our allied troupes as possible if they could have got ashore."



Winston, You're drunk!

Bessie, You're ugly. But in the morning I shall be sober.

Message Edited on 12/01/0310:27AM by Menthol_moose

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 11:34 AM
Oleg,any account of AAA shooting bailed out pilot ?

Any proof of what you write about Churchill ?

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 12:45 PM
ROll.. plz.

you know me, I know you, and we both know that nobody keeps the record of the "evil" thing he may HAVE TO DO in a war.. only some of the evilest did it..

The essence of aircombat is to always try to keep your take off and landing numbers equal!

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 01:22 PM
Churchill was not a pilot,and a "special order" must have been recorded somewhere.

IIRC,Stalin's order to the NKVD to shoot retreating soldier is documented,Truman order to release the atomic bomb is documented too,am i wrong ?

And,as said earlier,it's much more interesting for intelligence to "interview" a downed pilot than to shoot him down with 20mm AA guns...

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 01:29 PM
If their in the air, then they must still be classed a flying object.

So therefore if they are a flying object then to me, they are still fair game...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyone who bail's in this game is a coward, it isn't REAL LIFE it's not going to affect your score, so just stay in your kite... Plus it's nice and warm when the engine's goes on fire...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Andy...

Live everyday as though it were your last, as you never know what is around the next corner...
http://mysite.freeserve.com/IL2/images/2-picture5.jpg?0.5191398850469211

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 02:25 PM
Just an example:

To maintain air superiority over Gulf fo Finland, finnish pilots didn't attack the planes on the ground. Why? Because Russia had so many planes in the area, compared to Finland, that it wont affect the soviet operations. Instead, they prefered to shoot it down on the air, to kill the pilot, because of the lack of experienced soviet pilots in the area.

It's war strategy. No space for kindness.

And they are not criminals for that...

[]s,

VF-1_Jagua.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 02:48 PM
shooting parachutes is sick, if it was paratroopers its ok, but aircraft crew it isnt
if its enemy crew behind your lines, id much rather capture him /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif other side, well maybe...


whineingu /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 03:04 PM
War is fun....shoot everybody!

"Nothing difficult is ever easy"

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 03:11 PM
I suggest the _discussion_ to be moved to the General Board.

The suggestion has been made by the users, judged and rejected by the creator of the software, the topic has no use (in the nearest future) any more.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 04:58 PM
-- AA also shoots airborne soldiers dropped from Ju~52.
-- Should AA let enemy soldiers land safely among friendly troops? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 05:23 PM
"... Plus it's nice and warm when the engine's goes on fire.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif "

Good news for us "Wet Coast Canadians" IMAO.

Are we having fun yet?


OC

I'm still a noob. You can call me Al.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 05:45 PM
The fact remains that parachuting pilots were shot down. During the Russian offensive the German pilots in chute were considered more than fair game and were targeted. War was not a game for most. Sving your friends and family meant doing many distasteful things.
As flight simmers, one of the things that attracts us most to the game is the realism. It might hurt your score when your chute is shot, I don't care for it either, but I don't want that removed from the game.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 08:09 PM
Once in VOW, I bailed on the blue side of the front. Too bad my crate was still in the air, so I couldn't exit the game /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . But much worse for me was the russian AAA 5km away on the other front side that killed my bailed pilot... Perfect example for how much it can affect gameplay. Got a KIA instead of bailed, and it ended my alive streak; OK it was my 2nd mission and in the first one a MiG-3 driver rammed me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif - but it can also happen when one has a 19 kill streak, close to the next medal. Then it's really painful for the player who worked hard to get that far in his streak - and he would have gotten farther if there wasn't that chute killer AAA.

But by the way: Much more annoying is the reargunner AI that has radar shooting solutions technique from 22nd Century /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif . A B-17 gunner killed me some days ago out of a spinning Fortress which's left wing was ripped off by me 3 seconds before I got killed. Sounds like FB 1.0 to me. That was fixed already (like many bugs /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif that came again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif )

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 01:08 PM
Especially for Online wars it is extremely disappointing, so nobody likes to attack groundtargets.

**************
Member of 88-IAP: http://www.88-iap.de , sokol@88-iap.de
Member of Virtual Online War team: http://www.vow-hq.com

88.IAP>Sokol
in Hyperlobby: http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 01:18 PM
HAHAHAHAHA what a load of sentimental bull.
Don't mind bumping this, won't happen anyway.
War isn't all that bad as long as it's sportive?? Give me a break.

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 01:33 PM
Mispunt wrote:
- HAHAHAHAHA what a load of sentimental bull.
- Don't mind bumping this, won't happen anyway.
- War isn't all that bad as long as it's sportive??
- Give me a break.
-
-

Hey, it's almost like we're a bunch of people flying online, against other people!!


Oh wait, that's exactally what it's like: Why don't you pay more attention... Or better yet, go join the army and report back how you like being shot at while jumping out of an airplane.

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 01:53 PM
The real solution is making AA player controlled. Then every parachute is killed and then AA simmers get bored and shoot every plane in the sky friend or enemy. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-05-2003, 12:13 AM
waterinthefuel wrote:
"the pilots knew they could get shot at trying to bail, so they would wait until the last second to pull their chutes,"


exactly that what I want in the game , make it so that pulling the trigger delays the chute of your bailing ego /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

that would be the best addition ever!!!

XyZspineZyX
12-05-2003, 01:01 AM
Why you people allways crying?
Who make this rules about shute and vulching?
Like one guy said before about pilot who will take new plane and fight again. same here if u kill plane on the ground it will not take off and kill you your wingman who is new and does not know much. There are no rules at wars.
Rule number one : You took off - make sure you landed.
(i'm not talking about pilot who like to hide untill mission done).

thanks again for great game - il-2

XyZspineZyX
12-05-2003, 02:57 AM
WUAF_Mj_Hero::
-- ...join the army and report back how you like being shot
-- at while jumping out of an airplane.

I agree with our Hero, join Airborne Paratroopers and report back how you don't like being shot at while jumping out of an airplane over enemy AA.

XyZspineZyX
12-05-2003, 07:13 PM
Hmm. Lots of junk in this thread. Starters:

- The war is hell, but still there were conventions. Yes,
- there are examples of cruel behaviour - killing
- prisoners, blowing up hospitals, strafing civil refugees -
- but these were exceptions rather than rules.

Some clever scientist guy once said, "It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." If those sort of things were really the exceptions, we probably wouldn't ever have any wars in the first place, ya know? Then again, there's the British flyer's tale of the '109 pilot who escorted him in his smoking Spit back to the white cliffs before sending him off with a salute, so maybe the guy who says:

- I`ll agree AI sometimes appears too fixated on bailers.
- Perhaps they could every now and then not shoot at
- bailers.

is onto something, even though that sort of detail is unfeasable given the scope of this game. But if there's anything actually useful to be taken from this thread (as far as the simulation is concerned) it's probably this:

- Read up about WW2, the pilots knew they could get shot
- at trying to bail, so they would wait until the last
- second to pull their chutes, thus reducing the amount of
- time the AAA has to home in on their chute and take them
- down. Utilize this knowledge the next time you have to
- bail.

In other words: maybe the bail and the ripcord could be engaged seperately by the user (a la Battlefield 1942...but, of course, in that game, avoiding the inevitable ground fire actually matters). I mean, if you're going to put bailing in the game at all, why the hell not, right?

XyZspineZyX
12-05-2003, 09:47 PM
Gerauchertes wrote:
-
-- I`ll agree AI sometimes appears too fixated on bailers.
-- Perhaps they could every now and then not shoot at
-- bailers.
-
- is onto something, even though that sort of detail
- is unfeasable given the scope of this game. But if
- there's anything actually useful to be taken from
- this thread (as far as the simulation is concerned)
- it's probably this:
-
-- Read up about WW2, the pilots knew they could get shot
-- at trying to bail, so they would wait until the last
-- second to pull their chutes, thus reducing the amount of
-- time the AAA has to home in on their chute and take them
-- down. Utilize this knowledge the next time you have to
-- bail.
-


Wow, and that was me who said that! I feel so smart! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.80snostalgia.com/classictv/airwolf/pic1.jpg