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drose01
12-08-2004, 09:32 AM
Most of the posts on tactics I've looked at suggest to not open up on an enemy until at very close range.

However, in offline campaigns, I am getting pummelled by rear gunners, especially when playing the Hurricane attacking Ju87s, Me110s and He111s.

What tactics would people recommend to take this type of plane down without sustaining huge damage?

Also, what do people think about the default hurricane weapons' potency? Seems kinda weak.

I emptied my full ammo loadout into a Me110 at close range, nearly all shots hitting, and although a continuous stream of black debris was tumbling off the plane, all I accomplished was to stop the rear gunner from firing and to get one of its engines to smoke...

dieg777
12-08-2004, 09:44 AM
The hurricanes weapons were weak-rifle calibre bullets.
To score keep your speed up and fly either head on
or at about 30 degrees off rear -dont fire until at max 300m away and peal away quick
aim for engines and wing roots- you might not score instant kill but will put plane out of action

To get speed you need height to dive down onto bombers dont follow them and creap up inch by inch or you ll get nailed- once you strike do a sustained turning climb at best speed then turn and dive again.

If you like hurris checkout Extreme ones RAF campaign its a free download at netwings.com

there were tales of He111 s returning with over 100 strikes in BOB.

Tater-SW-
12-08-2004, 10:12 AM
Make attacks where you are constantly moving from the perspective of the gunner. Don't saddle up dead six where from his POV you are just a static target, increasing in size.

USN standard was the "high side" attack, basically a diving S turn. Any slashing style attack will help.

tater

JR_Greenhorn
12-08-2004, 11:53 AM
There is always advice to perform slashing tactics on bombers, but when I was first learning Il-2, I had no idea what that meant.
To those that are in the same situation I was, here is how I have learned to do slashing attacks on bombers:



First, for any gunnery practice, go into the config.ini file and set arcade=1. Also, enable external views.

The most important part of any tactic is how you set it up. In a slashing attack, you want to be above and off to one side of your target bomber. With experience, you'll learn just how far way to be, but for now just be far enough away that the gunners don't shoot at you.

In that position, fly parallel with the bomber and watch him out the side of your canopy. You may have to bank a bit to see around your wing, but taking this time to track your target will really help you learn faster and perform better.

While looking down at the bomber, mentally draw a line straight aft of the wingtip nearest you. At the same time, draw a line straight out from the horizontal stabilizer on the tail. Along with the wing itself and the fuselage, these four lines will form a square. This square is the target that you want to dive the nose of your plane through.

Once you've picked your target squre out on the plane, bank into a dive towards that square, keeping the plane in view as you begin your dive. You may loose sight of the plane under your nose, but just don't try to keep it dead in your sights the whole time.

As your dive brings you closer to your target square, predict when the plane itself will come into the fire of your guns. Just before it does, pull the trigger. You should pass by the plane's fu****e just behind its wings. Keep your guns firing until just after the plane passes by.

If you set up and performed your attack dive correctly, you will have scored hits somewhere on the plane. Pause the game and switch to the target bomber's external view. If you have arcade mode on, you should see the hit arrows through some part of the plane. Observe where these hits were scored, and ajust your dive the next time to hit an engine or wing root. Don't worry about hits in the fu****e or in the wings outside the engines on a bomber. These places won't do much more than piss off the gunners.
You've got to make your dive point your guns right at the engines or wing roots to score kills on bombers.

If you can do the slashing attack fast enough, only "golden bullets" from the gunners might score a lucky hit now and then. Normally, the gunners won't hardly touch your plane.

3.JG51_BigBear
12-08-2004, 11:59 AM
The best way to attack bomber aircarft is to go head to head with them. This works especially well against Il2s and Ju87s. They are not maneuverable enough, and lack heavy air to air machine guns and cannons to be a threat to you while you will be doing maximum damage to their aircraft by destroying engines, fuel lines, oil lines, cooling systems, etc. If that is not feasible, I wait until I'm directly beneath the target. The abruptly pull up and let loose on then underside of the bomber.

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
12-08-2004, 03:45 PM
well i wouldn't go head2head on an Il-2 if he a:knows what he is doing and b: can see you.

Il-2's are a pain on a head2head attack (except FW's maybe) but a 109F or E and spotted by the il-2 pilot is verry dangerous.

JG5_UnKle
12-08-2004, 04:36 PM
I like to use a lot of Yaw, seems the AI gunners can't cope too well if you attack with a bootfull of rudder.

Use a slashing attack as mentioned above but try a lot of rudder - helps me anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Daiichidoku
12-08-2004, 05:13 PM
FB DOES have a training section that deals with many tactical situs....check it out, then modify whatever you learn with your own style

bird_brain
12-08-2004, 05:27 PM
Try to come in from the side at an angle...above, below or almost level. You are pounding away on their armor instead of hitting the cockpit, engine of gas tanks. That is why all the little pieces fly off and they don't go down.

LStarosta
12-08-2004, 06:04 PM
It's just SOOOOOO easy.


As an infantryman, if you were going to attack a bunker with most of its machine gun ports on the north end, would you march in line abreast and knock on the pillbox from the north and ask for the enemy to surrender?

No.

Which is why attacking bombers from dead rear and sticking to their 6 o'clock is the stupidest thing you can do. Attack head on and from the sides. Many bombers have critical weakpoints. Do research and learn them. One thing I like to do is dive under the bombers from a significant altitude and then I target either their bomb bay, or the part of the wing between the engine and the fuselage, or the engine itself, all from below and then zooming back up to altitude. I also enjoy flying parallel with the bombers, outrunning them, and then turning to attack from the front. This is a bit tough, but if you can put a few cannon rounds into a glass nose, it's lights out.

NEVER attack from the DEAD rear. If you are forced to attack from the rear, attack from the bottom, if the plane does not have a belly gunner. And learn to shoot well. The more difficult the shots you make are, the more difficult it is for the defensive gunner to shoot you. Attack from odd angles, and remember to keep yourself fast relative to the bombers. You may be closing in at 500 kph from the rear at bombers going 350 kph, but in reality you are only moving 150 kph relative to the bombers, which makes you an easy target. Stay fast. I know this has probably no meaning in IL2, but in real life, you would target the lead ships of the formation. Often times, only the flight leader had bombsights, and the rest of the bombers would drop on cue. Obviously, shooting down the leading elements of a flight also causes the rest of the flight to beocme disorganized.

Do some reading on the subject. Mike Spick's Luftwaffe Fighter Aces is a great read. Try to find something on Luftwaffe nightfighter tactics. Many Luftwaffe Nachtjager pilots had the uncanny skill of knowing EXACTLY where the weak points of a particular aircraft were. Reading this will give you an idea of what to aim at and what to not bother with. Also, 303 Polish RAF squadron had great skill in breaking apart German bomber formations during the Battle of Britain, and they got their claim to fame as the most successful RAF squadron during the battle. There was a time where 6 303 Sqn. Hurricanes dissipated a 60 bomber formation with full Me109 and Me110 escort. If you can dig up first hand relations of how they did that, you are sure to learn a thing or two.

Stiglr
12-08-2004, 08:11 PM
BigBear, I have to inform you that your Schnapps ration has been taken away from you for suggesting a HO with an IL-2.

That plane OUTGUNS most of the Luftwaffe planeset, and it's almost suicide to slug it out "chicken" style with a Sturmo.

They may not make you forget a Rata, but they're plenty maneuverable to get their nose on you and blast the absolute living hell out of you.

Hit a Sturmo from high sides, or from below, where you can get a shot at that oil cooler.

Front quarter passes are VERY hard to make against all but the largest, non-maneuvering targets, but you might try that also.

triggerhappyfin
12-09-2004, 08:08 AM
During WW2 the pilots were trained to do "angle" attacks on bombers - trying to attack them from surtain angles from sides. Making them selves harder targets for the gunners. Attacks from six o´clock were deadly to them selves.

Angle attacks are hard to do because it´s easy to missjudge and end up six oclock on the passing by bomber. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

kn00bski
12-09-2004, 09:27 AM
Planes with rear gunners should be attacked from under their bellies. Big bombers wth belly gunners should be attacked from high above. Remember, a bullet that falls down doesnt loose speed...

3.JG51_BigBear
12-09-2004, 09:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
BigBear, I have to inform you that your Schnapps ration has been taken away from you for suggesting a HO with an IL-2.

That plane OUTGUNS most of the Luftwaffe planeset, and it's almost suicide to slug it out "chicken" style with a Sturmo.

They may not make you forget a Rata, but they're plenty maneuverable to get their nose on you and blast the absolute living hell out of you.

Hit a Sturmo from high sides, or from below, where you can get a shot at that oil cooler.

Front quarter passes are VERY hard to make against all but the largest, non-maneuvering targets, but you might try that also. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That thing is a pig and I've gone up against enough of them to know that if you go head to head with this beast at maybe 10 or 20 degrees elevation there is no way you're not going to knock it out of the air. Yes it outguns most German aircraft but those are heavy cannons that have a muzzle drop like nobody's business. You'd almost have to be asleep to get knocked down by those things.