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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 01:48 PM
After the initial dumb comments after a days play, people are really beginning to see how good this sim is.



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 01:48 PM
After the initial dumb comments after a days play, people are really beginning to see how good this sim is.



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 02:21 PM
Yepp, Some get it that. The patch is really good, in the last version the Hurricane was an UFO :S But now it is slow like the bf41E at last the fixed that, and people need to know how to fly LA they think that LA isnt good, Yes it is still good plane its just isnt easy to fly it, no plane is easy to fly in 1.1b that good more realism http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 04:19 PM
I suppose that's a matter of opinion.

The German FM's are still very unstable in ACM. They leave controlled flight at any hint of turn or maneuver. The Soviet models, and early war German models don't have this tendancy to the same degree.

This is modeling not realism. It can be partially explained by the difference between sims and reality, but not completely.

I suppose Oleg feels this is an accurate and simple way to model limitations in turn rate. You exceed the turn rate and the aircraft leaves controlled flight. This is very primitive in my view. As is the rear center of gravity on many late model German planes, this is complete and utter fantasy and reminds one of the P-51 when the rear tank was loaded. The center of gravity is off.

A perfect example is the 190 D-9. This plane is not capable of dogfighting a Lagg-3 1943 or I-16 in FB when pilot skill is the same, much less a later war plane regardless of the tactics used, and even when using tactics that the AI routinely use without any of these obvious modeling limitations placed upon human pilots.

The problems are obvious, flight model instability as modeled, a poor view system and overdone cockpit modeling and inaccurate gunnery/flight/eye coordination in the program itself and in computers in general which makes the rather realistic gunnery and damage model much more difficult than reality.

Reality is and was very different.

But then was anyone in their right mind expecting anything different from a computer/video game?



--------------------------------------

"Loyalty to the country always, loyalty to the government when it deserves it."

Mark Twain


Message Edited on 08/16/0311:24AM by James_Gang

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 04:44 PM
You cant make the game real, it will never be 100% realism

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 04:59 PM
I agree, the patch is SUPER! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Ok, it isn't exactly the same high quality as the final patched version of IL2. but we are getting there!

oh, and for patchwhiners, me262whiners and the like, I have 3 words for you all: "anger management class" (mike_espo?)

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:41 PM
Hi all,

Well for the german bomber pilots its a big dissapointment.
The stuka is reduce from a good flying dive bomber to a good flying toerist plane.
The problem is that the boms are not relize seperatly and the dive recover is starting to early on to high alt.
so we got a behter working He-111 and now we most wait till the stuka is fix.
Waht a great patch !!!
For me personel , I send the patch back to 3-C .
IL2 Was starting to be great for bomberpilots to bud now its a big step back.

I/KG26_Oranje

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:49 PM
I been flying all of the ac every singel one of them cept the I16, I53 and alike......

The Patch seams great to me.... No im not a real pilot.....

Yes I been playing Flight Sims for years....

Basicaly each aircraft has its quirks regaurdless of weather its Pure reality the fact remains that almost every ac has some strong points & some week points

Therefore YOU the Pilot must use each ac towards its strong points...

Sure does seem like alot of folks would do alot better if theyd get off the deck as well...

I cant tell you how many times I find People flying highspeed non turning ac on the deck this is your own fault
your not going to win any battles on the deck in a Dora or A9 you need altitude lots of it !!!

As a prelude Id like to say Ive been Kicking arse & taking names in almost all of the ac

109g6as
K4
109E4b (dogin & bombin)
109F4
190a9
190 a5
190 a4
190 F8 (bombing them into next week)
P47 (Team Dogin/wingin-Bombing)
P39n1,q1,q10
Yak9u
Yak9k
Mig3u
Mig Shavak
Il2's Any of them
ju87

havent tryed the la7 or Laggs yet But Ill get there soon
stop ********* & start flying



Ps Im sure they will fix the Stuka If you report the Bug




<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>



Message Edited on 08/16/0305:51PM by AFJ_Murdoc

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 09:15 PM
Oleg is the lord

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

MicroSoft Most Wanted
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/the-aztek-eagles/oleg.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:09 AM
Theres only a few major problems

The prop pitch is not working as it should in doras & 109's
you had it close to right on version 1.0 whey did u change it???

also the throttle it dosent throttle down I mean it goes from 110 to 0 but the engine is wound up like a sunofgun

Landing these ac with these problems is a real MF & its very frustrating

Please Fix the Throttle & the Prop Pitch for FW & 109s and the rest of them to

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:25 AM
James Gang if you can't beat a 1942 plane in a Dora, you should be looking to place blame elswhere rather than on the FM.

<center>
Read the <a href=http://www.mudmovers.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ.htm>IL2 FAQ</a>
Got Nimrod? Try the unofficial <A HREF=http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=4870c2bc08acb0f130e5e3396d08d595>OT forum</A>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:47 AM
Hobnail wrote;

"James Gang if you can't beat a 1942 plane in a Dora, you should be looking to place blame elswhere rather than on the FM."

---------

Hum, I didn't mean to rain on your IL-2/FB is perfect parade/I am a real WW2 ace fantasy.

Haven't you learned anything in the past 3 years?

My comments were directed at experiences against AI, not necessarily online. But the result is similar. Nothing much has changed.

The Soviet models fly around like small mosquitoes with complete aircraft stability and laser precision gunnery, late model LW aircraft fly around like lumbering medium bombers on the edge of leaving controlled flight with any serious stick input with half the screen obstructed, strange stall characteristics and the as usual ludicrous gunnery that seems to go everywhere but on the target.

Are you still denying these obvious inconsistencies exist, and have existed since day 1?

The bottom line is that aircraft that were poor in reality are excellent in IL-2/FB, and aircraft that were excellent in reality are poor in the game.

I suppose in this regard, my view of realistic air combat and the accuracy of the modeling is different than yours and the developers.

I accept that. But, there is no need to misrepresent the facts or the accuracy of the game.

--------------------------------------

"Loyalty to the country always, loyalty to the government when it deserves it."

Mark Twain

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 02:00 AM
This is true.

Perhaps with the patch 1C should be walking instead of running and fix the queries before adding eye candy?

Don't get me wrong I love the propwash effects and some of the new FM's but my question is if 1C has all the data then how come all the planes have changed once again. Even in IL2 when the FM's were meant to be correct everything has changed. A fault of UBI wanting to get an unfinished game released or incorrect data even after all the original IL2 patches and now 1.1b.

Personally I think (and this is an opinion from a guy who used to fly R.A.F. Jaguars for a living and listen to Senior headshed frequently on training missions) the patch released should be purely to solve the quibbles and queries 1C and we have all had and then add eye candy once time and effort has resolved these issues...

....a case of running before we are walking?

http://af-helos.freewebspace.com/BP_Ham%20Sig.gif



Per Ardua Ad Astra

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 02:20 AM
James_Gang wrote:
- My comments were directed at experiences against AI,
- not necessarily online. But the result is similar.
- Nothing much has changed.
-
- The Soviet models fly around like small mosquitoes
- with complete aircraft stability and laser precision
- gunnery, late model LW aircraft fly around like
- lumbering medium bombers on the edge of leaving
- controlled flight with any serious stick input with
- half the screen obstructed, strange stall
- characteristics and the as usual ludicrous gunnery
- that seems to go everywhere but on the target.
-

I think it's only the problem of the AI. There's only one AI routine. It fights well in TnB planes, but doesn't know how to BnZ. Late LW planes become lumbering bombers in the hand of "noobish" AI pilots who doesn't know to keep speed up, and yanks the stick all around.

That the AI can't do BnZ well shouldn't come as a surprise, I suppose? BnZ takes a human lots of time to master already.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:04 AM
James_Gang wrote:
- I suppose that's a matter of opinion.
-
- The German FM's are still very unstable in ACM. They
- leave controlled flight at any hint of turn or
- maneuver. The Soviet models, and early war German
- models don't have this tendancy to the same degree.
-
I noticed this myself in a QM in a Dora against some early Yaks & Las...although my 4 man average squad still took the 6 man half average half veteran AI squad apart with no losses. I figure it means I have to learn to fly again...and actually I think this is probably even more realistic because the plane is very responsive now. You dont have the luxury of being lazy on the stick or rudder when you fly. I notice i have to be 100% aware 100% of the time or else the plane wont hold stable flight. Before I could get a little lazy..... not anymore.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:25 AM
I agree. Virtually every problem I noted in my initial impressions post was a result of things getting set out of kilter by the installation. Now that everything is back to normal, I'm VERY happy and impressed with 1.1b.

-Bill

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 05:14 AM
You've changed your tune eh, James_Gang ?

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zvajq

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zvape



Lixma,

Blitzpig.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 05:22 AM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif , good one Lix.

I just wanted to add couple of things....
First, new FM brought back the excitment and challenge, i absolutely love it.
Second, new visual effects has nothing to do with FM tweaks...i am still wondering when people will start to realize that Maddox is the HEAD of developement and there are bunch of people under his supervision who is responcible for different parts of IL2/FB. I highly doubt that person responcibe for eye candy is involved into FM tweaking /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Just my 02c.

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 05:43 PM
I am pleased with the patch.

It has fixed some major issues and made the game playable as a LW pilot. Some glaring differences between historical accuracy and the sim have been fixed.
Things are not perfect but at least the game is vastly better.

Having said this I havn't played a russian campaign post patch. Playing the Russian campaign showed how glaringly unbalanced the game was.



"Do unto others before they do unto you"

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 08:16 PM
SeaFireLIV wrote:
- After the initial dumb comments after a days play,
- people are really beginning to see how good this sim
- is.
-
-
-
-
- "Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good,
- rather than a Possible Evil."
-
- SeaFireLIV.

Van Elvis Wrote; I agree. I love the Patch.

http://www.hardrockhotel.com/rock/memorabilia/elvis.jpg


Thankya Thankya very much
Van Elvis

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 09:10 PM
Lixme wrote;

"You've changed your tune eh, James_Gang ?

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zvajq

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zvape



Lixma,

Blitzpig."


--------------


No I haven't.

These were initial impressions of the patch after flying only the 109 F-4.

I find many of the fixes in the latest patch to be a step in the right direction. As well, at least the developer admitted there were a few issues that needed addressing. This is a step forward in my opinion.

However, after further review some things remain the same.

It is still not as some have claimed in the past or continue to proclaim.

Do you wish to turn this into a personal matter, or discuss the patch and the issues with the game?

I'm not sure you interjecting your personal problems into this discussion is constructive?

Shouldn't you leave that at 'a complete waste of space forum'?


--------------------------------------

"Loyalty to the country always, loyalty to the government when it deserves it."

Mark Twain