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View Full Version : 20mm vs .50 cal



mynameisroland
07-24-2007, 09:45 AM
Check out these two clips. Im sure a lot of people here have seen a .50 cal being fired, how many have seen a 20mm Hispano being fired down a range?

.50 cal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJgBVbVjhWs&mode=related&search=

20mm Hispano
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8fe_1184498089&c=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc9E8_ZuESQ

mynameisroland
07-24-2007, 09:45 AM
Check out these two clips. Im sure a lot of people here have seen a .50 cal being fired, how many have seen a 20mm Hispano being fired down a range?

.50 cal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJgBVbVjhWs&mode=related&search=

20mm Hispano
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8fe_1184498089&c=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc9E8_ZuESQ

faustnik
07-24-2007, 09:51 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

skarden
07-24-2007, 09:52 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

friggin awsome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

AKA_Luke
07-24-2007, 10:37 AM
What's the point of such a big gun if you can't kill tanks with it?

carguy_
07-24-2007, 10:41 AM
Ballistics look awful!

foxyboy1964
07-24-2007, 10:50 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif 20mm she go badaboom...

JG4_Helofly
07-24-2007, 10:59 AM
oh sh**!!! No wonder 1 20mm gun = 3 cal50 guns.

fordfan25
07-24-2007, 11:15 AM
the guns in those videos are of 1 50. cal and the 20's are double 20mms.

texhill88
07-24-2007, 11:26 AM
That is asoume no wonder they put them on planes.

Xiolablu3
07-24-2007, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
Ballistics look awful! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, and this is one of the best WW2 20mm for ballistics.

Think what a Mg151 would be like.

Choctaw111
07-24-2007, 11:42 AM
That was pretty neat!

na85
07-24-2007, 12:24 PM
That makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

zugfuhrer
07-24-2007, 01:02 PM
One some occations I have been in charge of live ammo exercise company level, coop between tanks and mechanized infantery, and especially during night shooting the 20 mm givs a powerful impression.

When three or more APC:s fires HE at the same target there is not much left of the canvas or container targets.
The tracers serpents in the dark like gigantic watersquirts? towards the target which is covered in smoke and small fireballs from the shells. And the thump, thump,thump sounds from the cannons can give you goosebumps.

An helicopter or an a/c would be torn apart. It is much lethal power in 20mm against soft targets.

Friendly_flyer
07-24-2007, 01:06 PM
Oh bugger!

jarink
07-24-2007, 03:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fordfan25:
the guns in those videos are of 1 50. cal and the 20's are double 20mms. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's kind of hard to tell, but the 20mm looks to me to be one of those ex-Yugoslav triple 20mm mounts.

Not to mention that the longest burst from the .50 is about 6 rounds. That's not the way to use a MG for air-to-air shooting. (Heck, those are even short bursts for ground fighting!)

Now, THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m225CyqeEAs) is more like it!
Another clip, looks like the same guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN3_33-agHk

BfHeFwMe
07-24-2007, 08:33 PM
I want one of these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRB2UTfQJSQ&NR=1) installed in my A-20's nose and upper turret.

Waldo.Pepper
07-24-2007, 09:04 PM
I am waiting for someone to post the 20mm recovered from Glacier Girl - strapped to a Ski Doo blowing up a can!

Waldo.Pepper
08-08-2007, 06:28 PM
OK so I shall post the video myself then.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8667657662528450841

3.JG51_BigBear
08-08-2007, 07:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
OK so I shall post the video myself then.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8667657662528450841 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I love that video.

Choctaw111
08-08-2007, 07:45 PM
I remember seeing that on the History Channel a while back. That was a very interesting show.

stalkervision
08-08-2007, 07:50 PM
Ijust love what a 20mm exploding round does to a spitfire's elevator, tail and fusalage.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

easy kills just hitting the elevator.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Choctaw111
08-08-2007, 07:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
Ballistics look awful! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Think what a Mg151 would be like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hadn't noticed this statement before. The Mg151 was NOT as powerful as the Hispano. The velocity of the Mg151/20 was considerably less than the Hispano. Whether the HE did more damage than the Hispano I do not know. I am just speaking from a ballistics standpoint.

BBB_Hyperion
08-08-2007, 08:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> There are two types of energy that may be transmitted to the target; kinetic and chemical. The kinetic energy is a function of the projectile weight and the velocity with which it hits the target. This velocity in turn depends on three factors: The muzzle velocity, the ballistic properties of the projectile, and the distance to the target. There are therefore two fixed elements in calculating the destructiveness of a projectile, its weight and chemical (high explosive or incendiary) content, and one variable element, its velocity. The key issue is the relationship between these three factors.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

As you can see in the cartridge section
<UL TYPE=SQUARE> [CARTRIDGE | POWER ]
[20x82 | 236](for mineshell)
[20x110 | 201]
[/list]

So pretty much even in destructiveness power. Belting is another topic. So far pretty much every 1 pass attack with average 5 round hits from every guntype 20 mm available should render a plane non combative. Not so in this sim tho.

JG52Karaya-X
08-09-2007, 02:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I agree, and this is one of the best WW2 20mm for ballistics.

Think what a Mg151 would be like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wouldnt be that much different... muzzle velocity of the Mk.II Hispano = 880m/s that of the MG151/20 = 725m/s. However IIRC the value for the Mauser is not the maximum muzzle velocity, it also largely depends on the ammunition fired, for example the fastest projectile is the M-Geschoss...

Bewolf
08-09-2007, 02:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I agree, and this is one of the best WW2 20mm for ballistics.

Think what a Mg151 would be like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wouldnt be that much different... muzzle velocity of the Mk.II Hispano = 880m/s that of the MG151/20 = 725m/s. However IIRC the value for the Mauser is not the maximum muzzle velocity, it also largely depends on the ammunition fired, for example the fastest projectile is the M-Geschoss... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which also tends to have a higher HE load.

AFAIK, the Hispano and the Mauser were pretty even in distructive power. The Hispano had more kinetic punch, the Mauser more explosive punch.

Blutarski2004
08-09-2007, 06:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I agree, and this is one of the best WW2 20mm for ballistics.

Think what a Mg151 would be like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wouldnt be that much different... muzzle velocity of the Mk.II Hispano = 880m/s that of the MG151/20 = 725m/s. However IIRC the value for the Mauser is not the maximum muzzle velocity, it also largely depends on the ammunition fired, for example the fastest projectile is the M-Geschoss... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... Keep in mind that muzzle (kinetic) energy varies directly with projectile weight ratio, but as the square of MV ratio. By MV alone, the Hispano would have about 1.5x advantage at the muzzle.

OTOH, the chemical energy provide by the HE content of a projectile often greatly exceeds its kinetic energy, especially at longer ranges. Ring's UK page used to have a very useful comparison listing of kinetic versus chemical energy for various a/c weapons, but I have not been able to raise his website in quite a while.

The-Pizza-Man
08-09-2007, 03:44 PM
mine shells will also slow down a lot faster than AP or normal HE shells because of their lower sectional density. So while they might be faster at the muzzle they may well be slower at the target.