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Temporal_Mass
03-30-2006, 06:54 AM
Which trim setting is most important during combat manuevering? I have a Saitek X45 and currently have the wheels set for rudder and elevator but I am having fun trying to get this right. I have gotten fairly consistant at survivng ground takeoff and landings, but but my flying can only be likened to the thrashing of a wounded walrus. A beached wounded walrus. Any input appreciated.

R988z
03-30-2006, 07:17 AM
Depends on the aircraft really, I tend to find elevator trim most useful for the aircraft I usually fly.

midgie
03-30-2006, 07:28 AM
I'd say rudder trim is the most important generally. In sims where you don't have 'seat of your pants' feeling it's much easier to pick up visual clues for elevator & aileron being out of trim and correct with stick input than it is with rudder. Being out of trim with rudder also has a larger impact on your gunnery than the others (as well as slowing you down).

Second most important would be elevator. If you search for 'RBJ' or 'trim on a slider' you'll probably find out more, but basically it's useful where you're either pulling full deflection or at high speeds where your elevator may stiffen up.

I have a list with what planes have which trim that i'll post if i can find it, but basically German planes only have <span class="ev_code_BLUE">elevator </span> trim, russian & british rudder+elevator and US all three.

Temporal_Mass
03-30-2006, 07:41 AM
Thanks midgie. I'd like the list if you can find it. I can definitley see when I am not trimmed right (which would be most of the timehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) and that's what I am working on is not having to fight the stick so much to fly smooth. Task overload in the cockpit is still a problem but I am getting better at that. It's frustrating trying to put the pipper on the target when your working the stick like a spoon stirring a soup pot. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

bolox00
03-30-2006, 08:09 AM
http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_essential_files.htm#087
might be of some use to you in reducing the sensitivty of your trim controls- try a straight linear setup for both elev and rudder for starters, then adjust to your liking.

as german fighters only have elev trim and most others have rudder and possibly aileron aswell i'd put elev trim as the most important, closely followed by rudder and aileron a distant third

WOLFMondo
03-30-2006, 08:20 AM
I'd put elevator on the slider as most planes have elevator trim, many have rudder, few have aileron.

Wild.Bill.Kelso
03-30-2006, 09:19 AM
I mostly fly the A10 and I have always had the Pitch Trim assigned to the wheel by my thumb on my X45. I also adjust the graph so I can get fine adjustments while shooting my guns or rockets.

Temporal_Mass
03-30-2006, 09:52 AM
Pitch Trim is elevator, yes? (forgive noobishness). Push stick, ground get closer, pull stick ground get farther...unless you're inverted... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

F19_Orheim
03-30-2006, 10:00 AM
It used to be elevator trim (remember, when climbing, thottle, stick back and trim for climb) but I guess these days the rudder trim seems to be more important for those airplanes that really have it and need it.. all depends on the airplane... in 109 the ruddertrim ain't that importanthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

midgie
03-30-2006, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
in 109 the ruddertrim ain't that importanthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif edited previous post

midgie
03-30-2006, 11:31 AM
Temporal, have you considered building a trimbox? It frees up the fimger wheel for prop pitch and thumb one for flaps. If not, I used to use the thumb wheel for elevator trim and finger wheel for prop pitch with rudder+aileron on a hat switch (but that was pre 4.01 with the old fm).


Originally posted by Temporal_Mass:
I'd like the list if you can find it.

Rudder Elevator Aileron Plane Country Allied/Axis
y y y (F) A-20G (1943) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) B-25J-1NA (1943) US Allied
y y y (F) Beaufighter Mk.21 (1944) [pf] GB Allied
n n n (F) BI-1 (1942) VVS Allied
y y y (F) Buffalo Mk.I (1941) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) Corsair Mk.I (1943) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) Corsair Mk.II (1943) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) Corsair Mk.IV (1944) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) F2A-2 (1940) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) F4F-3 (1941) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) F4F-4 (1942) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) F4U-1A (1943) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) F4U-1C (1945) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) F4U-1D (1944) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) F6F-3 Late (1943) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) F6F-5 (1944) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) FM-2 (1943) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) Hawk 81A-2 (1941) [pf] US Allied
y y n (F) Hurricane Mk.II field mod.(1942) GB Allied
y y n (F) Hurricane Mk.IIb (1940) GB Allied
y y n (F) Hurricane Mk.IIc (1941) GB Allied
n n n (F) I-153 M-62 (1939) VVS Allied
n n n (F) I-153 P (1939) VVS Allied
n n n (F) I-16 Type 18 (1933) VVS Allied
n n n (F) I-16 Type 24 (1939) VVS Allied
n n n (F) I-16 Type 24 SPB (1942) VVS Allied
y y n (F) I-185 M-71 (1942) VVS Allied
y y n (F) I-185 M-82A (1942) VVS Allied
n y n (F) Il-2 (1 series)(1941) VVS Allied
n y n (F) Il-2 (2 series)(1941) VVS Allied
n y n (F) Il-2 (3 series)(1941) VVS Allied
n y n (F) Il-2 (field modification)(1941) VVS Allied
n y n (F) Il-2 I (1943) VVS Allied
n y n (F) Il-2 M (1st series)(1942) VVS Allied
n y n (F) Il-2 M (later series)(1942) VVS Allied
n y n (F) Il-2 T (1943) VVS Allied
n y n (F) Il-2 Type 3 (1943) VVS Allied
n y n (F) IL-2 Type 3M (1943) VVS Allied
y y n (F) La-5 (1942) VVS Allied
y y n (F) La-5 F (1943) VVS Allied
y y n (F) La-5 FN (1943) VVS Allied
y y n (F) La-7 (1944) VVS Allied
y y n (F) La-7 w/3xB-20 (1944) VVS Allied
y y n (F) LaGG-3 (series 29)(1941) VVS Allied
y y n (F) LaGG-3 (series 35)(1941) VVS Allied
y y n (F) LaGG-3 (series 4)(1941) VVS Allied
y y n (F) LaGG-3 (Series 66)(1943) VVS Allied
y y n (F) LaGG-3 IT (1943) VVS Allied
y y n (F) MiG-3 (1940) VVS Allied
y y n (F) MiG-3 AM-38 (1941) VVS Allied
y y n (F) MiG-3 U (1942) VVS Allied
y y n (F) MiG-3 ud (1941) VVS Allied
y y n (F) MiG-3 w/2xShVAK (1941) VVS Allied
y y n (F) MiG-3 w/2xUB (1941) VVS Allied
y y y (F) Mustang Mk.III (1944) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) P.Z.L. P.11 C (1939-43) PL Allied
y y y (F) P-38 J (1943) US Allied
y y y (F) P-38 L (1944) US Allied
y y y (F) P-38 L Late (1944) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) P-39 D-1 (1941) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) P-39 D-2 (1941) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) P-39 N-1 (1942) US Allied
y y y (F) P-39 Q-1 (1944) US Allied
y y y (F) P-39 Q-10 (1944) US Allied
y y y (F) P-40 B (1941) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) P-40 C (1941) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) P-40 E (1941) US Allied
y y y (F) P-40 E M-105 field mod.(1942) US Allied
y y y (F) P-40 M (1942) US Allied
y y y (F) P-400 (1941) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) P-47 D-10 (1943) US Allied
y y y (F) P-47 D-22 (1943) US Allied
y y y (F) P-47 D-27 (1944) US Allied
y y y (F) P-51 B-NA (1943) US Allied
y y y (F) P-51 C-NT (1943) US Allied
y y y (F) P-51 D-20NA (1944) US Allied
y y y (F) P-51 D-5NT (1944) US Allied
y y y (F) P-63 C-5 (1944) US Allied
y y y (F) SBD-3 (1942) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) SBD-5 (1943) [pf] US Allied
y y n (F) Seafire F. Mk.III (1943) [pf] GB Allied
y y n (F) Seafire L. Mk.III (1943) [pf] GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire HF Mk.IXe (1943) GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire LF Mk.IXc Clip Wing (1943) GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire LF Mk.IXe Clip Wing (1943) GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire LF Mk.Vb Clip Wing (1943) GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire LF Mk.Vb Low Alt (1942) GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire Mk.IXc (1943) GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire Mk.IXe (1943) GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire Mk.Vb (1941) GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire Mk.Vb Clip Wing (1943) GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire Mk.Vc(2) (1941) [pf] GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire Mk.Vc(4) (1941) [pf] GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire Mk.VIII (1943) [pf] GB Allied
y y n (F) Spitfire Mk.VIII Clipped Wing (1943) [pf] GB Allied
n y n (F) TB-3 4M-17 (1933) VVS Allied
n y n (F) TB-3 4M-34R (1933) VVS Allied
n y n (F) TB-3 4M-34R SPB (1933) VVS Allied
y y y (F) Tomahawk Mk.IIA (1941) [pf] US Allied
y y y (F) Tomahawk Mk.IIB (1941) [pf] US Allied
y y n (F) Yak-1 (1941) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-1 B (1942) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-3 (1944) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-3 P (1945) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-7 A (1941) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-7 B (1941) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-9 (1942) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-9 B (1944) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-9 D (1943) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-9 K (1944) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-9 M (1944) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-9 T (1943) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-9 U (1944) VVS Allied
y y n (F) Yak-9 UT (1945) VVS Allied
y y n (F) YP-80 (1944) US Allied
n y n (F) A6M2 (1940) IJN Axis
n y n (F) A6M2-21 (1941) IJN Axis
n y n (F) A6M2-N (1942)(Seaplane) [pf] IJN Axis
n y n (F) A6M3 (1942) [pf] IJN Axis
y y n (F) A6M5 (1943) [pf] IJN Axis
y y n (F) A6M5a (1943) IJN Axis
y y n (F) A6M5b (1944) [pf] IJN Axis
y y n (F) A6M5c (1944) [pf] IJN Axis
y y n (F) A6M7-62 (1945) [pf] IJN Axis
y y n (F) A6M7-63 (1945) [pf] IJN Axis
y y y (F) B-239 (1939) FN Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 E-4 (1940) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 E-4/B (1940) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 E-7/B (1941) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 E-7/Z (1941) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 F-2 (1941) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 F-4 (1941-43) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 G-10 (1944) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 G-14 (1944) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 G-2 (1942) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 G-6 (1943) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 G-6 Late (1943) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 G-6/AS (1944) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 K-4 (1944) DE Axis
n y n (F) Bf-109 Z (1944) DE Axis
y y y (F) Bf-110 G-2 (1942) DE Axis
y y y (F) D3A1 (1939) [pf] IJN Axis
y y y (F) Fiat CR.42 (1938) IT Axis
y y y (F) Fiat G.50 (1938) IT Axis
n y n (F) Fw-190 A-4 (1942) DE Axis
n y n (F) Fw-190 A-5 (1943) DE Axis
n y n (F) Fw-190 A-6 (1943) DE Axis
n y n (F) Fw-190 A-8 (1944) DE Axis
n y n (F) Fw-190 A-8 for Mistel (1944) DE Axis
n y n (F) Fw-190 A-9 (1944) DE Axis
n y n (F) Fw-190 D-9 (1944) DE Axis
n y n (F) Fw-190 D-9 (1945) DE Axis
n y n (F) Fw-190 F-8 (1944) DE Axis
y y y (F) G4M1-11 (1941) [pf] IJA Axis
n y y (F) Go-229 A-1 (1945) DE Axis
y y y (F) He-111 H-2 (1941) DE Axis
y y y (F) He-111 H-6 (1941) DE Axis
y y y (F) He-162 A-2 (1945) DE Axis
y y n (F) Hurricane Mk.I (1938) FN Axis
y y y (F) I.A.R. 80 (1940) Axis
y y y (F) I.A.R. 81 a (1940) Axis
y y y (F) I.A.R. 81 c (1940) Axis
y y y (F) J8A Gladiator I (1937) FN Axis
y y y (F) Ju-87 B-2 (1941) DE Axis
y y y (F) Ju-87 D-3 (1942) DE Axis
y y y (F) Ju-87 D-5 (1942) DE Axis
y y y (F) Ju-87 G-1 (1943) DE Axis
y y n (F) Ki-100-I Ko (1945) [pf] IJA Axis
y y n (F) Ki-43-Ia (1941) [pf] IJA Axis
y y n (F) Ki-43-Ib (1941) [pf] IJA Axis
y y n (F) Ki-43-Ic (1941) [pf] IJA Axis
y y n (F) Ki-61-Hei (1943) [pf] IJA Axis
y y n (F) Ki-61-Ki (1942) [pf] IJA Axis
y y n (F) Ki-61-Otsu (1944) [pf] IJA Axis
n y n (F) Ki-84 Ia (1944) IJA Axis
n y n (F) Ki-84 Ib (1944) IJA Axis
n y n (F) Ki-84 Ic (1944) IJA Axis
n y n (F) Me-163 B-1a (1944) DE Axis
y y y (F) Me-262 A-1a (1944) DE Axis
y y y (F) Me-262 A-1a/U4 (1945) DE Axis
y y y (F) Me-262 A-2a (1944) DE Axis
n y n (F) Ta-152 H-1 (1944) DE Axis

Temporal_Mass
03-30-2006, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by midgie:
Temporal, have you considered building a trimbox? It frees up the fimger wheel for prop pitch and thumb one for flaps. If not, I used to use the thumb wheel for elevator trim and finger wheel for prop pitch with rudder+aileron on a hat switch (but that was pre 4.01 with the old fm).

Trimbox? Sounds mysterious and technical. Would that entail hacking into the X45 guts? A search using trimbox would turn up relevant info? I think I'll try your wheel/hat setup, though throwing another variable into the mix (prop pitch, thanks loads, midgie http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif ) will just add to the fun. Since I am still learning all the buttons/wheels/hats on my X45 changing it now might be better than later. And thanks bushels for that list. S!

Wild.Bill.Kelso
03-30-2006, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Temporal_Mass:
Pitch Trim is elevator, yes? (forgive noobishness). Push stick, ground get closer, pull stick ground get farther...unless you're inverted... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Yep.
Elevator = Pitch
Ailerons = Roll
Rudder = Yaw

bolox00
03-30-2006, 01:25 PM
trimbox- not really too technical(ability to solder helps)- just some pots wired either to a gameport adaptor or the board of an (old?) usb joystick.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m...831095914#7831095914 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/3881052714/r/7831095914#7831095914)
has a pic of one and a wiring diag middle/bottom of page.

the plasma v2 here
http://www.betainnovations.com/
is another way to go if you're more ambitious.

Temporal_Mass
03-30-2006, 02:27 PM
Thanks, bolox00. And thanks to everyone else as well for all the info! S!

raaaid
03-31-2006, 09:21 AM
elevator trim is a must in some planes like the 109

unless you have trackir best is use mouse view and set the trim into the mouse wheel

Daytraders
03-31-2006, 01:57 PM
how do u assign elevator trim neutral to the mouse wheel, or you use hotas elivator trim for wheel, and cant you just slightly move joystick stick forward or back for trim if you carefull ?, also can you assign rudder trim to the twist on a stick if you have pedals. thx