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View Full Version : "BoB SoW" size matters...



zardozid
02-07-2008, 06:57 PM
I was looking around "YouTube" and revisited this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3sf0eiQ--o) old interview with Oleg...in the clip we see a (blurry) screen of the (a?) "BoB" map...
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff22/proton45/vlcsnap-6329558.png?t=1202434348
Is their anyone that could guess the coastline in the map? I'm wondering how big this particular map is...Ive heard Oleg say that maps will be larger then what we are used to and that it's possible that a single map could contain London, the channel, and parts of France...I'm wondering if the map in the clip is larger then the typical "IL2 1946" map...

I remember hearing Oleg say that their will be map making tools available for making "smaller" (user) maps (I'm looking forward to this feature)...

I'm wondering what the (possible?) MTO add-on might look like...How big might the "new" map(s) be? Large enough to contain Greece, Malta, and Tripoli in a single map?

I'm also wondering if their are any "Spanish Civil war" buffs out their..."If"(?) they made a "SCW" add-on for the "SoW" series, what would be the region to map? Where would the "most interesting" aerial battles have been? I know the Germans bombed the Basque in Guernica (one of,if not the first,bombing campaign's) ...Guernica is in the north, could a single map contain both Madrid and Guernica? Any thoughts? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Obviously their could be some "spill over" between these two regions of the world...

Lucius_Esox
02-07-2008, 07:09 PM
Thats the English channel. The sticky out bit on the English side is the Dungeness peninsula I think?

Wild guess but I would think you can see about 80miles of English coast there... It's not clear though and it's late... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

zardozid
02-07-2008, 07:20 PM
Perhaps the map show this section of the channel?

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff22/proton45/googleearth2008-02-0721-17-22-68.jpg?t=1202437156

Schwarz.13
02-07-2008, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
Thats the English channel. The sticky out bit on the English side is the Dungeness peninsula I think?

That is indeed correct.

zardozid
02-07-2008, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Schwarz.13:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
Thats the English channel. The sticky out bit on the English side is the Dungeness peninsula I think?

That is indeed correct. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So the map as we see it here does not include London...

Tater-SW-
02-07-2008, 07:58 PM
That's pretty tiny, actually.

zardozid
02-07-2008, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
That's pretty tiny, actually.

By my rough calculations that's 100 miles a side (of the map)...that's a map that contains 10,000 square miles (some of that's water).

Chivas
02-07-2008, 08:07 PM
The Map will be alot bigger than that in every direction, but I don't remember the particulars.

zardozid
02-07-2008, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by Chivas:
The Map will be alot bigger than that in every direction, but I don't remember the particulars.

How do you know this?

Chivas
02-08-2008, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by zardozid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
The Map will be alot bigger than that in every direction, but I don't remember the particulars.

How do you know this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Posts by Oleg sometime ago stated approx. size. The Map will go North of London and farther east west and south than the screen shot, but I can't remember what it was exactly. Even at that nothing was written in stone. The screenshot shown is far to small to do just to the Battle of Britain.

Chivas
02-08-2008, 12:16 AM
My guess would be the western boundary of Plymouth or Cardiff, northern boundary of Coventry or Northhampton or even lower, eastern boundary of Gent, and southern boundary of Caen.

I suppose it may have to be smaller with the level of detail Oleg wants to but into the terrain.

fabianfred
02-08-2008, 01:07 AM
how about this one..?

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj183/Clock_Watcher/ed_m02.jpg

Capt.LoneRanger
02-08-2008, 02:07 AM
That will be more like it, I guess. IIRC there was a description posted somewhere by Oleg or the team, that gave a hint how far the map streched.

In a quick search I just found this:

Brand new game map - The game will take place from central England in the North, to Northern France in the South (The part of map will include Belgium - area close to French border, from where Italian AF were flying, involved in BoB). The game-world will consist of a single large map and will encompass cities, towns, roads, airfields, radar stations, ports, and industrial areas.

Feathered_IV
02-08-2008, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by fabianfred:
how about this one..?

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj183/Clock_Watcher/ed_m02.jpg

That one is for Il-2 isn't it?

Copperhead311th
02-08-2008, 02:32 AM
just out of curiosity.... how long would it take to fly a single engine aircraft from say London to Cean. 90 mins?

in a direct line what's the distance from say....London to Cean?

JG53Frankyboy
02-08-2008, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
just out of curiosity.... how long would it take to fly a single engine aircraft from say London to Cean. 90 mins?

in a direct line what's the distance from say....London to Cean?

google earth is helpfull http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
~275km/160miles from central London to central Caen

ploughman
02-08-2008, 03:24 AM
Jutocasta (?) was modelling Stone Henge so the map'll go as far west as western Wiltshire at least.

Capt.LoneRanger
02-08-2008, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
Jutocasta (?) was modelling Stone Henge so the map'll go as far west as western Wiltshire at least.

Yes, I remember that, too.

fabianfred
02-08-2008, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by fabianfred:
how about this one..?

That one is for Il-2 isn't it?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

The-Rocketeer
02-08-2008, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
just out of curiosity.... how long would it take to fly a single engine aircraft from say London to Cean. 90 mins?

in a direct line what's the distance from say....London to Cean?

google earth is helpfull http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
~275km/160miles from central London to central Caen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Will it take 30 minutes to fly from Caen to London at 600 km/h ?

Isn't Oleg afraid that people will fall asleep on their joystick (especially if the engine heating time and other pre-take-off procedures are realistic) ?

DKoor
02-08-2008, 07:08 AM
Bf-109E definitely wont be able to reach London and get back safely on routine manner.

Just do a little unnecessary climbing/maneuvering and you end up in drink.

fabianfred
02-08-2008, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by The-Rocketeer:

Will it take 30 minutes to fly from Caen to London at 600 km/h ?

Isn't Oleg afraid that people will fall asleep on their joystick (especially if the engine heating time and other pre-take-off procedures are realistic) ?

so what else have you got to do.....anything as important as this..?...lol

JG53Frankyboy
02-08-2008, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Bf-109E definitely wont be able to reach London and get back safely on routine manner.

Just do a little unnecessary climbing/maneuvering and you end up in drink.

here you can read about the 109Es fuel consumption
http://www.franky.fliegerhospital.de/Leistung%20Bf109E-3.jpg

it had 400l fuel in its tank.
no wonder almost all 109 units were concentrated around the Pas de Calais end of August 1940.
JG53 for exapmle was based in the Normandie (west of our IL2 Normandie map!) in the beginning - and from 20.August on around Le Touqet

Choctaw111
02-08-2008, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by The-Rocketeer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
just out of curiosity.... how long would it take to fly a single engine aircraft from say London to Cean. 90 mins?

in a direct line what's the distance from say....London to Cean?

Complaining already?

google earth is helpfull http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
~275km/160miles from central London to central Caen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Will it take 30 minutes to fly from Caen to London at 600 km/h ?

Isn't Oleg afraid that people will fall asleep on their joystick (especially if the engine heating time and other pre-take-off procedures are realistic) ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

roybaty
02-08-2008, 10:11 AM
One thing about my old days playing Warbirds Online I miss were the BOB scenarios. Many a time I barely got back to Calais with my fuel gauge on empty.

Can't wait for SOW.

zardozid
02-08-2008, 10:27 AM
God...Imagine how long it would take to fill in the detail on a map that big...all the towns, railroads, villages, channels, city streets, harbors, airports, forests, farms, factory's, "land marks", ect...

Viper2005_
02-08-2008, 10:32 AM
2 weeks. Be sure.

Tater-SW-
02-08-2008, 10:36 AM
I should add that while I don't think the map is terribly big, given the new level of ground detail, it will be a HUGE amount of work.

Personally, I think limiting player built maps to a tiny size is a mistake since the largest effort will actually be populating the maps with houses, telephone poles, trees, etc. Better to let someone who loves doing it do it for free.

BTW, the early shots shows housing developments that looked like 1980s era developments, I hope there is attention to a 1940s pattern of development, not based on present sat data.

Copperhead311th
02-08-2008, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by The-Rocketeer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
just out of curiosity.... how long would it take to fly a single engine aircraft from say London to Cean. 90 mins?

in a direct line what's the distance from say....London to Cean?

google earth is helpfull http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
~275km/160miles from central London to central Caen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Will it take 30 minutes to fly from Caen to London at 600 km/h ?

Isn't Oleg afraid that people will fall asleep on their joystick (especially if the engine heating time and other pre-take-off procedures are realistic) ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

no not really. considering the average coop on HL is 20-30 min or longer and coded DF servers such as Warclouds 44 missions run for almost 2 hours from map change to map change.

All it wil do is make for fewer sorties.
Longer, but fewer, and it will as a more realistic feel.

i don't you'll get board. you be too busy with CEM for that.

these planes are going to be 3 times more complex thanthe most dificult plane in the sim to fly. not so much so that they'll be impossible. but enough that you'll be ver busy on that long flight to the target area to notice that you've just flown for a 1/2 an hour.

Chivas
02-08-2008, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
I should add that while I don't think the map is terribly big, given the new level of ground detail, it will be a HUGE amount of work.

Personally, I think limiting player built maps to a tiny size is a mistake since the largest effort will actually be populating the maps with houses, telephone poles, trees, etc. Better to let someone who loves doing it do it for free.

BTW, the early shots shows housing developments that looked like 1980s era developments, I hope there is attention to a 1940s pattern of development, not based on present sat data.

Oleg has stated the building arrangement will be circa 1940, and right it will be a huge amount of work. This is one of the good things about the delay...this has given the building modelers more time to make local landmarks that will easily differentiate one town and area from another. Very helpfull when trying to find your way home.

biggs222
02-08-2008, 11:42 AM
I hope 1C doesnt cut any corners on the map size (no pun intended).

I would love to see an entire map from Grangemouth and Drem up in 13 group, all the way down to Brest in northern France and all the way over to the bomber bases in Soesterberg and Eindhoven.

but they probably wont http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Chivas
02-08-2008, 11:57 AM
You can almost count on the map not going far enough South and East to cover Paris. I would love to see Paris modeled but it would be a huge amount of work definitely not required for BOB.

biggs222
02-08-2008, 12:07 PM
yeah i know thats askin too much ... and i dout the map will go any higher than 12 group probably not even the entire 12 group geography. although i really do hope to see parts of Belgium and the Netherlands.

DKoor
02-08-2008, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The-Rocketeer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
just out of curiosity.... how long would it take to fly a single engine aircraft from say London to Cean. 90 mins?

in a direct line what's the distance from say....London to Cean?

google earth is helpfull http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
~275km/160miles from central London to central Caen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Will it take 30 minutes to fly from Caen to London at 600 km/h ?

Isn't Oleg afraid that people will fall asleep on their joystick (especially if the engine heating time and other pre-take-off procedures are realistic) ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

no not really. considering the average coop on HL is 20-30 min or longer and coded DF servers such as Warclouds 44 missions run for almost 2 hours from map change to map change.

All it wil do is make for fewer sorties.
Longer, but fewer, and it will as a more realistic feel.

i don't you'll get board. you be too busy with CEM for that.

these planes are going to be 3 times more complex thanthe most dificult plane in the sim to fly. not so much so that they'll be impossible. but enough that you'll be ver busy on that long flight to the target area to notice that you've just flown for a 1/2 an hour. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I think..... that the current model is not suitable for SoW type of engagement.

We are talking about doing almost one hour of flight every time here for Luftwaffe and possibly somewhat shorter airborne time for RAF (unless we spawn in air close to enemy).

Flying for 30 mins and searching enemy in further 5 mins or so then get back rinse and repeat probably wont sound so juicy to some players.
Wont really work IMO unless we have hundred(s) of players on specific server....

I believe that most of the action will be semi-historical or fictional in order to improve playability just as it is now with IL2.

zardozid
02-08-2008, 12:34 PM
So perhaps we are looking at a map like this (size)?

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff22/proton45/googleearth2008-02-0814-26-42-34.jpg?t=1202498979

A map this size is (about) 200 miles a side...that's 40,000 square miles.

Chivas
02-08-2008, 12:41 PM
This map should be close, but I would atleast go south far enough to cover Caen, and west far enought to cover Bristol.

Tater-SW-
02-08-2008, 12:50 PM
Regardless of the flying times online, if the time available for combat before RTB is shorter than appropriate for the LW fighters, it breaks a lot regarding how things should play out.

Also, there needs to be a robust radar system built in that vectors the RAF.

Operational stuff is typically lacking from flight sims.

Look at CV operations in every ww2 flight sim. Moving spawn points instead of the complex organization that required spotting planes forward and back, etc.

biggs222
02-08-2008, 01:07 PM
I hope this isnt that isnt the size, it only covers 11 group, hardly any of 10 and none of 12.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/Biggs222/bobmap.jpg

zardozid
02-08-2008, 01:21 PM
Using the 200miles rule we get an Italian map like this...
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff22/proton45/googleearth2008-02-0815-16-43-12.jpg?t=1202501939

And a map of Crete
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff22/proton45/googleearth2008-02-0815-08-26-70.jpg?t=1202502066

JG53Frankyboy
02-08-2008, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
...............................

I believe that most of the action will be semi-historical or fictional in order to improve playability just as it is now with IL2.

well, the distance between Wissant-Audembert area (JG26, 51 bases) to Hawkinge http://www.battleofbritain.net/0006.html its only 45 km http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

i guess online we will see the white cliffs very often http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Tater-SW-
02-08-2008, 02:36 PM
What is the 200 miles rule? Anything like the 825x600km rule? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

biggs222
02-08-2008, 03:04 PM
Something like this would be nicer. includes some of 12 group (duxford, Debden, Matrlesham)as well as some more of 10 group.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/Biggs222/BobMap_02.jpg

zardozid
02-08-2008, 04:04 PM
I think we are looking at 4 gig's of RAM (easily) for minimum computer (specs) requirements... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

zardozid
02-08-2008, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
Something like this would be nicer. includes some of 12 group (duxford, Debden, Matrlesham)as well as some more of 10 group.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/Biggs222/BobMap_02.jpg

your making sense to me... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

roybaty
02-08-2008, 08:44 PM
Have you ever played Warbirds, reasons I left were pay for play and graphics/physics engine that was getting long in the tooth.

BOB Scenarios included radar (highly simplified but tactically equivalent)which necessitated sector controllers etc.



Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
Regardless of the flying times online, if the time available for combat before RTB is shorter than appropriate for the LW fighters, it breaks a lot regarding how things should play out.

Also, there needs to be a robust radar system built in that vectors the RAF.

Operational stuff is typically lacking from flight sims.

Look at CV operations in every ww2 flight sim. Moving spawn points instead of the complex organization that required spotting planes forward and back, etc.

Tater-SW-
02-08-2008, 08:58 PM
Yeah, roybaty, same handle in WB. I had multi hundred buck a month bills back when it was $2/hr, lol.

S3s were always cool though. I mostly hung out in the HA when the pacific was the map.

The-Rocketeer
02-12-2008, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The-Rocketeer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
just out of curiosity.... how long would it take to fly a single engine aircraft from say London to Cean. 90 mins?

in a direct line what's the distance from say....London to Cean?

google earth is helpfull http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
~275km/160miles from central London to central Caen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Will it take 30 minutes to fly from Caen to London at 600 km/h ?

Isn't Oleg afraid that people will fall asleep on their joystick (especially if the engine heating time and other pre-take-off procedures are realistic) ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

no not really. considering the average coop on HL is 20-30 min or longer and coded DF servers such as Warclouds 44 missions run for almost 2 hours from map change to map change.

All it wil do is make for fewer sorties.
Longer, but fewer, and it will as a more realistic feel.

i don't you'll get board. you be too busy with CEM for that.

these planes are going to be 3 times more complex thanthe most dificult plane in the sim to fly. not so much so that they'll be impossible. but enough that you'll be ver busy on that long flight to the target area to notice that you've just flown for a 1/2 an hour. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I think..... that the current model is not suitable for SoW type of engagement.

We are talking about doing almost one hour of flight every time here for Luftwaffe and possibly somewhat shorter airborne time for RAF (unless we spawn in air close to enemy).

Flying for 30 mins and searching enemy in further 5 mins or so then get back rinse and repeat probably wont sound so juicy to some players.
Wont really work IMO unless we have hundred(s) of players on specific server....

I believe that most of the action will be semi-historical or fictional in order to improve playability just as it is now with IL2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with that.

I'm of those who like realism and realistic timing of all the procedures but I'm also concerned about the playability of the sim.

In the first flies it must be exiting to do a (semi)realistic check list and pre-take off procedures as well as to spent the real time to reach the target but this might make the dog fights as rare as in the reality and some pilots might fly several missions without even seeing a bandit.

I hope that Oleg will find a solution to keep realism compatible with playability for instance by proposing air born starts or by reducing the distance between targets artificially.

Chivas
02-12-2008, 10:56 AM
I would imagine it will be as realistic or unrealistic as you want it for game play. In dogfight servers the fights would happen at mid channel or anywhere else the server decides to put the opposing airfields or air starts. It should be all configurable to suit most peoples tastes.

zardozid
02-12-2008, 02:23 PM
Mig Alley would look pretty good...

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff22/proton45/googleearth2008-02-1216-18-39-59.jpg?t=1202851325