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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:22 PM
The La series of planes can no longer survive in a dive. I have tested them over and over to ensure what I'm experencing in not a one time on or off line thing. They come apart in a dive beginning around 720 to 740kmph. You can no longer follow planes while they are escaping. Now what really sounds strange is that the Yak-3 does not start coming apart till aroun 830 to 840kmph. Now the Yak always came apart alot sooner in the older versions of the game. The p-39 is around 890kmph before it starts loosing parts. Someone needs to file a TFOA report to the development peeps. (Things Falling Off Aircraft). But I doubt it will be fixed. No one can substantiate the fact of La's being able to out dive Yak-3's in real life. Even though it's been that way in every version of the game up till now.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:22 PM
The La series of planes can no longer survive in a dive. I have tested them over and over to ensure what I'm experencing in not a one time on or off line thing. They come apart in a dive beginning around 720 to 740kmph. You can no longer follow planes while they are escaping. Now what really sounds strange is that the Yak-3 does not start coming apart till aroun 830 to 840kmph. Now the Yak always came apart alot sooner in the older versions of the game. The p-39 is around 890kmph before it starts loosing parts. Someone needs to file a TFOA report to the development peeps. (Things Falling Off Aircraft). But I doubt it will be fixed. No one can substantiate the fact of La's being able to out dive Yak-3's in real life. Even though it's been that way in every version of the game up till now.

ZG77_Nagual
08-15-2003, 07:29 PM
I'm just happy that stuff is falling off them /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:40 PM
I guess I have to follow you around,as your going to keep pushing this. If you expect to get any answers on this. You'll need to show some documents that the La's wouldn't break apart at that speed. Don't go by what they do in games. Show what the real planes should do. I think you'll find that they're where they should be, or maybe they should break apart even sooner../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 08:41 PM
Shut up Buzz, yer such a SMACK.... look the documentation up on that. Uninstall the patch and try it, then install the patch and do it again... don't need to be a freakin engineer to figure something don't smell right. Get yer nose out of the moderators and the 1C's collective bung holes and go play the game once in awhile.. You are getting to be a bore with your expert opinions on every freakin post in the forums. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

SMACK.........................

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 08:45 PM
Actually, Yak-3s fall apart nicely in high speed dives. Dive to ~750 IAS, and apply some elevators... enjoy! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://vo101isegrim.piranho.com/FB-desktopweb.jpg
'Only a dead Indianer is a good Indianer!'

Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation performance data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

ZG77_Nagual
08-15-2003, 09:04 PM
Isegrim - how are you with the 109s these days? 190s have allways been more my cup of tea - but now they are getting too popular.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:07 PM
La kiddy,

Just as I suspected. Your noob plane has had it's FM corrected, and your whining like a brat. You have no evidence that the La is wrong. You just want it like it was. Which btw is when it was really wrong. What a ******.

btw..Don't think because I have more posts than you. That I don't fly the game more than you.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg



Message Edited on 08/15/0301:08PM by BuzzU

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:36 PM
"190s have allways been more my cup of tea - but now they are getting too popular. "


Once again, it's realistic to see more 190's online, because Kurt Tank designed it from the start as a "noob" plane!

Before, I found in fact so strange to be most times almost alone to fly it online, it was obviously not ok for an aircraft which was very simply a standart fighter!

Cheers,

ZG77_Nagual
08-15-2003, 09:40 PM
I loved my a5 in il2 and fb - really some great dogfights - best I remember was back in IL2 vs Maj death - that was a tough one. I do think they are much more accurately modeled now.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:33 PM
Lavochkin_Kid wrote:
- The La series of planes can no longer survive in a
- dive. I have tested them over and over to ensure
- what I'm experencing in not a one time on or off
- line thing. They come apart in a dive beginning
- around 720 to 740kmph. You can no longer follow
- planes while they are escaping. Now what really
- sounds strange is that the Yak-3 does not start
- coming apart till aroun 830 to 840kmph. Now the Yak
- always came apart alot sooner in the older versions
- of the game. The p-39 is around 890kmph before it
- starts loosing parts. Someone needs to file a TFOA
- report to the development peeps. (Things Falling
- Off Aircraft). But I doubt it will be fixed. No
- one can substantiate the fact of La's being able to
- out dive Yak-3's in real life. Even though it's
- been that way in every version of the game up till
- now.
-
-



You can no longer follow planes while they are escaping because thats how it should be la's already have best performance less stall spin etc etc to just about all luftwaffe planes what more do you want a turkey shoot.....

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:09 PM
Ummm, why would you be silly enough to follow your target down in a dive in the first place? I'll decend a bit, but I'm staying above him, if he stays low, he's doomed when I arrive, if he pops back up he's fried because I'm much faster.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:14 PM
I am not sure about Yak but Pokrishkin mentioned that that he pushed his P-39 beyond 800km/h While Kozhedub said that after 700 La7 would start shaking and approaching 800km/h mark was suicide...

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:23 PM
You wouldn't happen to have a link to those remarks (or scans if it's an offline document) would you crazyIvan? I'm feeling rather sorry for the VVS having their prize-fighter neutered like that. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<hr width="400">Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and have their
shoes!
http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg (http://www.jagdgeschwader1.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:17 AM
I'd think going 800-850 km/h in a dive would be enough to rip the wings or at least some control surfaces (which I have experienced) off an aircraft that is made largely using wood if I'm not mistaken.

I'm a BIG fan of the La-5FN and La-7 and I see no problem in adapting my style to accomodating to what I see as a farily realistic issue with diving and loosing control surfaces (I have yet to loose a wing). In both cases, I scolded myself for rushing the fight and not waiting for the 190 to make a hard turn so that I could get into a trailing persuit angle and open fire on his wing and tail section. And if he were to outrun me, well, I can't have everything now can I.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:46 AM
I don't think the break apart speed of the La5/La7 is wrong. I think the yak is too high. I read a doc that said to not go over 680 km/h with it. I wish I could remember where it was now.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:19 AM
LMAO.. you have documentation I'm a noob?. Did not think so. In fact, I have been here since the beginning of IL-2, and have had to listen to your condesending tone the whole time. Did you ever stop to think they my have entered a wrong key stroke. And go back and re read the post, I did not say "hey Oleg you need to fix this". It was a observation of one of the changes that was a big suprise on the handling of a specific series of aircraft. I don't dive to get away from engagements. I attack from an altitude advantage, using the energy gained in the dive to reaquire that altitude advantage. Now I have to pull out sooner because of airframe limitations someone says are correct because they have the engineering data. And then when I share the anomoly some UBER DUFUS know it all comes on and states he needs to follow me around to reiterate what I already know from reading the Read Me file in the patch, and the few threads Oleg has posted on the Bug/Peformance reporting. I try to avoid wrestling with Pigs. I don't like the smell and the Pig does not know he smells up a forum. But some people don't know when their opinion is not wanted. So do me a favor, keep yer brown nose out of my threads. And work on the depth perception problem that way you don't get crap in your ears. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:39 AM
I laugh at you guys who say they've been hear from the beginning, and have no posts. Then all of a sudden your posting like crazy. You whined about the noob plane in four threads within an hour. I didn't really follow you around, you were just everywhere. Like dog$hit. Stinking the place up.

btw How is it i'm a brown nose? I complain about the patch as much as anybody. The difference between me and you is what
I complain about is actually a bug. What you complain about is your noob plane isn't so uber anymore. Even though the FM is right now.

I really only have an attitude towards dummys.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg



Message Edited on 08/16/0301:05AM by BuzzU

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:59 AM
IMHO , BuzzU has the right to write in YOUR thread .
this is a open forum.


http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

Message Edited on 08/16/0308:00AM by Boandlgramer

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 09:50 AM
Boandlgramer wrote:
- IMHO , BuzzU has the right to write in YOUR thread .
- this is a open forum.
-
- You are a SMACK too. Kissin Buzz's Butt. How's his depth perception Buzz? has he got a brown nose, or crap behind his ears like you do?......./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif .... Must be oxygen deprived, thinks it Buzz's thread...Come out for air DUFUS. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

-
- http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif
-
- Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
- It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman
- Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic
- tribes. According to a widespread theory, the
- Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who
- remained in the country, the original Celtic
- population and the Germanic invaders.
-
- Bavarian History : <a
- href="http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/gesc
- hichteE.html#kap0"
- target=_blank>http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Informat
- ion/geschichteE.html#kap0</a>
-
- Message Edited on 08/16/03 08:00AM by
- Boandlgramer


I don't always keep the same name DUFUS. You admit to following me around... You get a Woody follownin people... You SPORTIN some WOOD there Buzz U..... Yer one sick Puppy, I bet yer hittin the refresh button constantly waitin for new posts so you can offer your Expert Opinion. Anyone elses' opinion is dog skat to you. I'm suprised you know what crap smells like. People with their heads as far up their asses as you have yours prolly grow real used to the smell of crap. Just an everyday smell for you. Mr Expert....now hit the refresh button and be the first one on somebody elses thread, Forum Freak. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 09:53 AM
Oh look everybody! Another tough guy with a keyboard.

Yawn...zzzzzzz...

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:02 AM
- btw How is it i'm a brown nose? I complain about the
patch as much as anybody. The difference between me
and you is what
I complain about is actually a bug.

How would you know?... you are always in here.

-What you complain about is your noob plane isn't so uber
anymore. Even though the FM is right now.

How would you know?....you are always in here. Did you give Oleg specs for the flight model?. For someone who spends astronomical amounts of money for someone else to build a computer for em, and then brag about it. Ya would think he'd spend all his time actually using it to play the game. And if you are so knowledgeable about everything why can't you build yer own puter and save 2 grand?. It's because yer too stupid to do it yourself. Mr. Know-it-all. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


And would a moderator please lock this. Uber Stooge has ruined another one. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:13 AM
so back to the topic at hand....................


One think isn't being adressed enough, and some ppl simply don't know, is that there isn't a "speed" where you're just going to loose parts and rip to shreds... there's a speed at which, if you exceed it, you have a given number of seconds to fly above that speed before pieces start flying. For example: The break speed for a P-47 D-27 is roughly 1,000 kmph... but given it's high break speed, and huge durability (plus once you're that fast, accelerating is also much faster) you can reach upwards of 1,200 kmph with out breaking parts.

One thing i think that needs to be adressed, as stated by buzz, is the break speed of a Yak3... i don't have exact numbers (but i will look, rest assured), but the Yak3 had a notoriously bad diving ability, and if it's "break" speed is over 740kmph, i'd sure like to know where Oleg got his information.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:37 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- I laugh at you guys who say they've been hear from
- the beginning, and have no posts.


I have been playing IL-2 since the very start, spending huge amounts of time with the game... maybe a bit too much. I have made countless missions/maps and hosted countless online games, and I have shot down countless opponents. I have also read the majority of _all_ posts on this forum, yet I have only replied to a fraction of them - I ask you Buzz, does this make anything I have to say less authorative than your posts/replys?

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:43 AM
don´t know what is a SMACK. my english is too poor to understand, poor like your brain /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 11:02 AM
I tested the Yak-3 6 times and the average speed at which things fall off aircraft (TFOA) was an average of 820kmph. I used to fly them alot and it was always in the low 700kmph where TFOA would start. The average for the p-39 post patch is around 880kmph. The P-39 always has been a good diving plane. Just seems strange that some FM's changed so drastically. And there is a bit of difference between the QMB, DF, and Coop servers at how fast you exceede yer TFOA speed.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 02:48 PM
The values are correct.. Early yaks with wooden parts brake apart much before 700kmh, like they should.. LA-7 with Russian Balsa-wood is not that much better either.. it should brake apart before 750 kmh.. and they do now.. excelent! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif in FB 1.0 it was impossible to escape Yaks/LAs while diving 900kmh.. they just kept coming. You are shocked, that VVS didn't have any good dive-planes? Learn to live with it.. Yak-3 has bit stronger consruction than LA-7, me things.. Yak-3 is all-metal..so Yak-3 might have bit stronger divespeed, than LA-7..

Only problem with LA-family is now LA5FN, maybe turns bit too slow now.. otherwise they are what they should be.. learn new tactics with Lavochkins.

____________________________________



Official Sig:



<center>http://koti.mbnet.fi/vipez/shots/Vipez4.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:52 PM
Can you say "VVS Whiners" !!!!!!!!! It's about freakin time.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 05:58 PM
IIJG54_Engel

I don't think I said anything like that. I just don't believe some guys who say they have been here from the beginning, and never posted. Then when they finally make a post. They have 25 posts a day. It doesn't make sense.

We have too many guys who take on new names, and claim to be noobs. I'm always suspious of noobs with attitudes.

Do I think what I say is more important, because I have more posts? Why would I think that? I have never said that. As a matter of fact, i've said just the opposite many times. Having alot of posts doen't mean squat to me. If I could get rid of them without having to change my name. I would. They are a pain in the butt, because alot of guys get an attitude over them. Just like LA kiddy. I know he hasn't been around here that long. I remember the first time I saw his nick I laughed, and it wasn't that long ago. Everything he says about me are things that happen lately. He knows nothing about the fact that I build my own systems, and my last one was sold to Goose. He's just a noob whining about his noob plane. Why should I respect what he says? When I asked him to show some proof of his claims. He just started with personal insults. Typical.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 09:57 PM
Lavochkin_Kid wrote:
- Shut up Buzz, yer such a SMACK.... look the
- documentation up on that. Uninstall the patch and
- try it, then install the patch and do it again...
- don't need to be a freakin engineer to figure
- something don't smell right. Get yer nose out of
- the moderators and the 1C's collective bung holes
- and go play the game once in awhile.. You are
- getting to be a bore with your expert opinions on
- every freakin post in the forums.
- SMACK.........................

Lavochkin_Kid wrote:
- You are a SMACK too. Kissin Buzz's Butt. How's
- his depth perception Buzz? has he got a brown
- nose, or crap behind his ears like you do?



Lavochkin_Kid, your behaviour ain't tolerated here.
Try Counterstrike forum.

And what's this with noses up moderators bung holes?
Please ellaborate.


If you through your detailed and thourough testings have come to the indesputable conclusion that the La-5 is wrongly modeled in the last patch then please use the report form in the readme file.

Locking.

http://members.chello.se/ven/milton.jpg