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View Full Version : What model is this MSFFB joystick?



Triggaaar
09-18-2005, 01:29 PM
I have decided to join the ranks, and buy a second hand MSFFB2, and buy a separate throttle and pedals.

But looking at MSFFB2s on offer, I've seen 2 different looking models.
Both have the same shape, and same silver throttle. Both have a silver hat at the top of the grip, with 2 black buttons just below it...
then below those 2 buttons, one has a black button/hat (?), the other has what looks like a red button. This latter joystick then has what looks like a red slider on the base, to the right of the throttle.

Are these both different versions of the MSFFB2, or is one a different model? If they are both MSFFB2s, what's the difference, and which is better?

Thanks

T_O_A_D
09-18-2005, 02:23 PM
Bearcat knows, All I know is make sure you get a USB model not an older gameport one. Mine is the older USB model according to BC but I don't remember what he said it was, to determine that.

T_O_A_D
09-18-2005, 02:27 PM
I just looked in my old PT's I found this

Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Does your stick have red # 2 & 3 buttons or grey ones? The grey ones are the older ones.... the red ones are the ones on the sticks that were made within the last 3 or 4 years...... post XPsoftware and better solenoids.

After reading that PT I see I am still waitnig a reply from him LOL

Triggaaar
09-18-2005, 02:42 PM
Thanks. I thought I'd seen a comment like that.

But I have seen a dozen MSFFB2s go on ebay over the past 2 weeks (and like the sad geek I am, written down how much they went for). They've all had the dark grey buttons, but looked very new, with boxes, manuals and disks, and gone for about 60 average (inc p&p). And now I've just won one with the red buttons, but it's got no box, disks, manual etc, and looks older, and it cost 41 - a third less than average, and the grey one that was ending at the same time.

Not sure if it's the same models here in the uk, but if so, the newer, better stick, that looks older, without the bits, is going for less than the older inferior one.

I mainly wanted to check it is the MSFFB'2' that I've got, before I sent the cash.

major_setback
09-18-2005, 02:54 PM
I happened to give one (that I picked up cheaply) to my brother on the off chance that he might enjoy simming. It was the later version. His is beter than mine...damm...HE DOESN'T EVEN USE IT!!!!


This is the Microsoft Force Feedback 2, known as MSFF2 or MSFFB2.

This is the newer version (see Bearcats comments above).



http://www.clubic.com/photo/00027516.jpg



The older MSFFB2 (according to Bearcat):



http://www.s2.com.br/clientes/microsoft/images/sideforce2.jpg

Can you post a picture of yours/your choices?

Triggaaar
09-18-2005, 03:08 PM
This is the one I've bought:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=58..._W0QQfromZR41QQfviZ1 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5808178328&ru=http://search.ebay.co.uk:80/5808178328_W0QQfromZR41QQfviZ1)

And this is an example of the normal ones on sale:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=58..._W0QQfromZR41QQfviZ1 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5809185813&ru=http://search.ebay.co.uk:80/5809185813_W0QQfromZR41QQfviZ1)

Triggaaar
09-18-2005, 03:13 PM
The picture you've posted there major, isn't like any I've seen. And doesn't match Bearcat's description, which says red buttons 2 & 3 (although bearcat may have been guessing the numbers).

Anyway, you've seen the one I bought, give me the bad news.

Bearcat99
09-18-2005, 03:16 PM
Yeah ms you got it right on the head.. sorry TOAD man for not getting back to you.. I must have lost you in the sauce... both will work in XP but usually from what I have seen if you are going to have problems in XP it is with the older sticks..... altho7gh from what I haver heard even some of the newer ones do the same thing... so like TOAD said.. make sure it is USB and cross your fingers. If you have a MSFFB you might want to also consider getting an X-45 for $39.99 from here (http://store.yahoo.com/saitekusa/recprod.html). The X-45 and the MSFFB work together sweetly in this sim... The X-45 stick you can use as a button bay... You can get a set of pedals from here (http://www.provantage.com/buy-110CHPU-ch-shopping.htm) for $86.95.... so thats $127 bucks for a set of pedals, a good HOTAS throttle and a button bay. Many X-45 users complain about the stick... but since you wouldnt be using the stick to fly... only as a button bay that is moot..... as a throttle.. for $39.99 you cant beat that with a stick considering it's programmability. Get the best of both worlds.... that way you can also later get TIR or go with the freeware equivalent that can be found in the Essentials link (Cam 2 Pan I think it is... I would have checked it out but I found out about it after I got TIR) tosss in Shift_E's VAC and you are talking immersion city. Here is a pic of my setup...
http://x4.putfile.com/9/24923514744.gif minus the TIR... but it works for me.

Triggaaar
09-18-2005, 03:23 PM
but usually from what I have seen if you are going to have problems in XP it is with the older sticks Can you tell from my first link how old that model is? I assume it is the MSFFB2 as per the description?


so like TOAD said.. make sure it is USB and cross your fingers. If you have a MSFFB you might want to also consider getting an X-45... The X-45 stick you can use as a button bay... You can see the USB in the pic. Yes, I know you have the X45 - been discussing with you in a thread I posted about Force Feedback, or Not. Well, I've gone with the recommendations of FF instead of the CH Fighterstick. But I was planning on getting the CH Throttle instead of the X45.

Would the MSFFB & CH Throttle be enough for HOTAS (no keyboard) or would I need an extra stick as a button bay (praying not, as it looks silly).

Bearcat99
09-18-2005, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Triggaaar:
The picture you've posted there major, isn't like any I've seen. And doesn't match Bearcat's description, which says red buttons 2 & 3 (although bearcat may have been guessing the numbers).

Anyway, you've seen the one I bought, give me the bad news.

No bad news..... Both sticks will work... You may have problems if you try to turn on the full FFB... I prefer to just use the flight control FFB.. the gunshake I dont need.....
I was just mistaken about which buttons... I meant 3&4...


Originally posted by Triggaaar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">but usually from what I have seen if you are going to have problems in XP it is with the older sticks Can you tell from my first link how old that model is? I assume it is the MSFFB2 as per the description?


so like TOAD said.. make sure it is USB and cross your fingers. If you have a MSFFB you might want to also consider getting an X-45... The X-45 stick you can use as a button bay... You can see the USB in the pic. Yes, I know you have the X45 - been discussing with you in a thread I posted about Force Feedback, or Not. Well, I've gone with the recommendations of FF instead of the CH Fighterstick. But I was planning on getting the CH Throttle instead of the X45.

Would the MSFFB & CH Throttle be enough for HOTAS (no keyboard) or would I need an extra stick as a button bay (praying not, as it looks silly). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what I hear the CH stuff is great.... but like I said in the previous post.... the X-45 throttle is great... and with the money you would spend on a CH throttle for a bit more you can get both.

major_setback
09-18-2005, 03:40 PM
It looks like you got the right one! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Note: there is a light-sensor that registers that your hand is on the stick. (It's at the front of the stick running from top to bottom) If you grip it too loosely then it will judder all over the place.
Careful with the stick the first time you use it, the Force Feedback can be very strong!
Button 2 is not well placed for cannon. I use button 3 for cannon, you can set this in the controls menu of the FB/PF game.

Triggaaar
09-18-2005, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
No bad news..... Both sticks will work... You may have problems if you try to turn on the full FFB... I prefer to just use the flight control FFB.. So the stick I've bought probably isn't the latest model, but it is an MSFFB2 - cool, I'll send the good chap the money.


From what I hear the CH stuff is great.... but like I said in the previous post.... the X-45 throttle is great... and with the money you would spend on a CH throttle for a bit more you can get both. I can't buy the reconditioned units, as they don't post to the uk. Plenty of X45s come up on ebay though. I can buy from provantage, and save on the cost of p&p if I get a throttle at the same time as pedals. And I will be getting TIR.

So:
Joystick bought
Pedals a given (CH)
TIR I think is a given (the latest, which is Pro I think (may have extra functionality with BoB, may not)

Throttle - CH or X45 with spare button bay
If I don't need the button bay, I'd prefer the CH.

Can I go full HOTAS with MSFFB & CH Throttle?

Thanks everyone

Triggaaar
09-18-2005, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by major_setback:
It looks like you got the right one! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Oh. It looks slightly different to your picture (red thing on base, behing stick). We'll see.

Button 2 is not well placed for cannon. I use button 3 for cannon. Yeah I've found the same thing with my old CH Flight Stick Pro.

All I need not is for the darn AEP to arrive!

T_O_A_D
09-18-2005, 04:38 PM
No sweat BC, But I bumped it back to the top for ya http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

major_setback
09-18-2005, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Triggaaar:
It looks slightly different to your picture (red thing on base, behind stick).

I think it's the silver Microsoft logo reflecting the orange surroundings!

tagTaken2
09-18-2005, 06:33 PM
[QUOTE]

This is the Microsoft Force Feedback 2, known as MSFF2 or MSFFB2.

This is the newer version (see Bearcats comments above).



http://www.clubic.com/photo/00027516.jpg

QUOTE]

This is the good one, right? I'm about to buy one- would post the link, but paranoid about having it bidded away http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif- and it looks like this.

And it will work without problems on XP?

major_setback
09-18-2005, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by tagTaken2:
[QUOTE]

This is the Microsoft Force Feedback 2, known as MSFF2 or MSFFB2.

This is the newer version (see Bearcats comments above).





QUOTE]

This is the good one, right? I'm about to buy one- would post the link, but paranoid about having it bidded away http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif- and it looks like this.

And it will work without problems on XP?

This is the good one. It works fine with XP. Mind your teeth when setting it up, it will knock them out!

tagTaken2
09-18-2005, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by major_setback:
Mind your teeth when setting it up, it will knock them out!

(backspaces over crude comment about rib removal... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

Cool, thanks. I was a little concerned that it's too good a deal for an ebay virgin.

Going to need rudder pedals now, this is getting out of hand.

T_O_A_D
09-18-2005, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by tagTaken2:
Going to need rudder pedals now, this is getting out of hand.


Oh yeh baby its going to get out of hand for sure. Welcome to the club http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bearcat99
09-18-2005, 09:19 PM
It still isnt as expensive as golf..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Yeah Trig you can go full HOTAS with the CH throttle as well. All HOTAS is is <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">H</span>ands <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">O</span>n <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">T</span>hrottle <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">A</span>nd <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">S</span>tick. As long as you have a Throttle and stick that you can get your hands on you have a HOTAS. (Note convetional joystics are HOFAS (Hands On Finger And Stick...LOL)

JV44Rall
09-18-2005, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by major_setback:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Triggaaar:
It looks slightly different to your picture (red thing on base, behind stick).

I think it's the silver Microsoft logo reflecting the orange surroundings! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The FFB2 w/ red light/red & silver buttons are the best, imho. But the green light/black buttons are pretty much the same. The red light models seem to have smoother gimbals.

Triggaaar
09-19-2005, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Yeah Trig you can go full HOTAS with the CH throttle as well. All HOTAS is is <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">H</span>ands <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">O</span>n <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">T</span>hrottle <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">A</span>nd <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">S</span>tick. As long as you have a Throttle and stick that you can get your hands on you have a HOTAS. Yes I know that Bearcat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What I am asking, is whether there are enough buttons on an MSFF & CH Throttle to allow you to fly IL2 FB, AEP, PF, without using the keyboard at all.

You use the X45 as a button bay, and I'd like to avoid that if possible.

If my choice is MSFFB2, CH Throttle, & Keyboard for putting the gear up and down (for example)
or
MSFFB2, X45 Throttle & X45
I could choose the latter to avaoid having to use the keyboard.

Capt.England
09-19-2005, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by major_setback:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Triggaaar:
It looks slightly different to your picture (red thing on base, behind stick).

I think it's the silver Microsoft logo reflecting the orange surroundings! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thats right! I have the same model of stick and it works perfect! Payed 70 pounds for mine, my mate payed 30 pounds for his from Comet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Triggaaar
09-19-2005, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Capt.England:
my mate payed 30 pounds for his from Comet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif Was that recently?

When did Microsoft stop making these?

Bearcat99
09-19-2005, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Triggaaar:
What I am asking, is whether there are enough buttons on an MSFF & CH Throttle to allow you to fly IL2 FB, AEP, PF, without using the keyboard at all.

You use the X45 as a button bay, and I'd like to avoid that if possible.

If my choice is MSFFB2, CH Throttle, & Keyboard for putting the gear up and down (for example)
or
MSFFB2, X45 Throttle & X45
I could choose the latter to avaoid having to use the keyboard.

I dont know that one.... but with my X-45 I dont have to touch the keyboard. Maybe someone with a CH throttle can help.

Ketalar
09-20-2005, 04:43 PM
Triggaaar:
I've expanded my peripherals at a slow rate so my girlfriend won't suspect anything, and I'll give you information about my setup. I started out with a MS FFB2 (second edition with the red buttons) and had a blast with it (twist-stick-rudder and all). Then I got a set of CH Products pedals and that opened up for a whole new experience. After a while I started thinking about going full out and getting a HOTAS. I stepped away from the X45/X52 sulution because of the limited space on my desk and got a CH Products Pro Throttle. Now I finally see hwat RayBan Jockey was on about all those years ago.

The throttle has three single buttons, three four-way-hats, one eight-way-hat and a mini-stick, it can be configured with three different modes giving you a total of 69 different buttons and the mini.stick can be used as a mouse to move the view in IL-2. I went the lazy way and simple started up IL-2 and assigned the buttons in the right places. By using the eight-way-hat as a four-way-hat I now have 19 keys bound to the throttle, and I find that this is all I need. I use the keyboard for the keys that I don't want to hit accidentaly, like eject, engine on/off, gears, hook up/down, chocks and canopy.

This is what I've got assigned right now, see if this is enough for you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MS FFB2:
Stick -
1. Guns
2. Cannon
3. Rockets
4. Bombs

Hatswitch - Views, but I use TrackIR so this can be used for anything else.

Base -
5. Vacant (used to be flaps down)
6. Vacant (used to be flaps up)
7. Vacant (used to be toggle zoom)
8. Vacant (used to be gunsight view)

Throttle - Elevator trim

Pro Throttle:
Single buttons on front -
1) TeamSpeak
2) Flaps down
3) Flaps up

Four-way-hat front -
* Radiator
* WEP
* Increase supercharger
* Decrease supercharger

Four-way-hat top -
* Zoom view
* Normal view
* Wide view
* Gunsight view

Eight-way-hat center -
* Increase mixture
* Decrease mixture
* Increase prop pitch
* Decrease prop pitch

Four-way-hat bottom -
* Switch crew position
* Toggle air brake
* Toggle navigation lights
* Toggle wingtip smoke

Mini-stick -
* Mouse-look when I forget my TrackIR



So, I could easily put 4-12 more commands on my FFB2, and a whole lot more on the throttle if I wanted, but I find this setup gives me everything I need in combat and more (smoke, lights...). I'm really happy with the setup I've got right now, and the CH-stuff is nicely built, as is the FFB2. The only thing I feel the X45/X52 has that you might want is the rotaries, but clicking for rudder/aileron trim isn't that hard, elevator trim on the FFB2-throttle slider is more important.



Sorry for the long post, I hope I shed some more light on your dilemma. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Triggaaar
09-20-2005, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Ketalar:
I hope I shed some more light on your dilemma. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Not to take anything away from everyone has helped me choose my set-up, but that is the perfect answer. It has saved me boring everyone with another post, asking what tasks to assign to what key. Thanks.