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View Full Version : I made a thread about the Lerche?



Chuck_Older
11-25-2006, 07:26 AM
Well so I did

Odd really, since I really don't mind any plane being in the sim- if I don't like it, I don't fly it or use it

BUT-

I was reading today, about the annular wing.

Did you know, that SNECMA (European members may be the only ones not mystified by the name) tried this, too?

In 1959, they flew a very odd looking aircraft, not very dis-similar to the Lerche, called the "Coleoptere", which looked like the head and neck of an aluminum pigeon was sticking out of a whisky tumbler with wheels. Buck Rogers to be sure. It flew nine times before it was destroyed in flight. Pilot ejected, miraculously. But it flew

Another odd thing- the RAF tried prone pilot experiments with a Meteor in the mid-50s. The pilot suffered from vertigo, couldn't see behind him, and got exhausted easily...but it worked

So here we have pilots laying down, and pilots flying planes with circular wings in the real world. Just as in the Lerche, as I understand

True, ten years after 1945 at least. But then again, Germany was willing to try some radical things during the war that other countries would not try- Me 163 for instance, the Fiesler FI 103R for another. So what's the big deal about the Lerche? Especially in a 1946 setting? This aircraft is not hard to rationalise, it seems to me

LEBillfish
11-25-2006, 07:42 AM
No issue here....The U.S. itself made a solid effort after the war to develop vertical take off craft. Yet even today they simply are not the best option.........Point to them though sometimes they are the only one. Yet you know me, I have no issues with any plane added....More is gooder http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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ploughman
11-25-2006, 07:45 AM
An interesting oddity. I like that they modeled the thing as envisioned, discovered it couldn't fly, and fiddled with it until it could. Ian Boys review of the 1946 add-on indicates that the Lerche is an all conquering monster.

The French thing looks pretty interesting, it seems to have had a good run of test flights. I wonder why they dropped it?

The Convair XYF Pogo, no annular wing but in a similar vein. http://www.unrealaircraft.com/gravity/images/xfy1_seq.jpeg <div class="ev_tpc_signature">


Dum spiro, spero

actionhank1786
11-25-2006, 07:49 AM
I can't wait for the flood of videos and pictures of people trying to figure out how to land the thing...all i know is, i'm going to be filling the beautiful russian stepes with lots of crater holes, with little more than the cockpit section of the Lerche sitting in them.
And on my first landing, i will most likely run through my house yelling "I DID IT!!! I CONQUERED THE BEAST!"
My roommates will look at me in confusion...see the computer, and just shake their heads. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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"CFS2 was excellent for its time. CFS3 was an an unfinished pile of poop perpetrated on the flight sim community." Sky chimp

"Those are not slats, Ray Charles if he were alive, could see that they are leading edge flaps.

Slats are so 1940's"
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Actionhank
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F19_Olli72
11-25-2006, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by actionhank1786:
how to land the thing
http://www.luft46.com/heinkel/flghtpln.jpg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Altocirrus
11-25-2006, 08:32 AM
X-Plane thinks it flies:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/Gaffspan/Image4-1.jpg

AWL_Spinner
11-25-2006, 08:41 AM
Good first post but short of piccies, so I went and found some of the Coléoptère, which actually flew. Not such a mad concept after all.

http://www.vstol.org/wheel/images/VSTOLWheel/pics/26.jpg

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/gravity/images/snecma_art.jpeg

http://avia.russian.ee/pictures/france/snecma_coleoptere.jpg

More info here (http://avia.russian.ee/air/france/snecma_coleoptere.html).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers, Spinner

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RCAF_Irish_403
11-25-2006, 08:42 AM
my beef isn't that it is included as a plane. I don't like the fact that it was modeled then had the FM fudged so you could fly it. Kinda lame but what the heck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Originally posted by marc_hawkins:
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. A 108:0 kill ratio is insignificant next to the power of the Force

http://www.fas.org/main/home.jsp

tomtheyak
11-25-2006, 08:55 AM
I thought they had tried the sums, found out it wouldn't have made it, worked out what would get the bugger off the ground then modeled it - don't quote me on this! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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AWL_Spinner
11-25-2006, 08:59 AM
Intuitively, looking at those ring designs I'd expect them to have incredible roll rates but very poor turning performance.

But then I'm not an aerodynamicist.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers, Spinner

<hr class="ev_code_hr" />
o Squads! Take a look at the ADW War (http://adwwar.com/en/#), it's fantastic!
o Spinner has been alive in ADW for a maximum of: 3hrs 38mins!

RCAF_Irish_403
11-25-2006, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by tomtheyak:
I thought they had tried the sums, found out it wouldn't have made it, worked out what would get the bugger off the ground then modeled it - don't quote me on this! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

thats my understanding<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Originally posted by marc_hawkins:
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. A 108:0 kill ratio is insignificant next to the power of the Force

http://www.fas.org/main/home.jsp

DuxCorvan
11-25-2006, 10:34 AM
It's not I don't believe it could fly. It's that I don't believe it could fly in the 1940's, nor can I believe it should have the AWESOME performance it will have in game.

Besides, if the concept is so outstanding -if we are to believe the first reviews, it outpeforms everything in the game- why there aren't Lerche-like aircraft flying all around in today's AFs? Those projects you mention, Chuck, were all abandoned for serious, unsolvable technical and practical issues.

Lerche is still out of place in the sim, even from a what-if point of view: all the 1946 planes, were viable projects which were on the way -or even flying- when WW2 finished or soon afterwards. Lerche was not.

Lerche was just a brainstorm first draft, which, in case of being finally built and tested, would had been promptly discarded for the same reasons the Pogo and the Coleoptère were. A freaky drawing with no more chances to exist in real life than Mickey Mouse.

Sorry, but while 1946 planes are "what-ifs", Lerche is simply Sci-Fi.

Brain32
11-25-2006, 10:46 AM
Sorry, but while 1946 planes are "what-ifs", Lerche is simply Sci-Fi.
Spit25 will pwn Lerche so bad it won't even be interesting, Spit25 FTW<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

This is my sig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Chuck_Older
11-25-2006, 10:53 AM
Dux, you miss the point I think-

WWII in 1946 is sci-fi. It never happened. The Lerche is no more or less inappropriate than the entire concept of the add-on's date. The entire thing is a fantasy by definition

Online, it can be banned from servers

Offline, players can use it or not as desired

There is no downside http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stathem
11-25-2006, 10:53 AM
IT's the helicopter thing isn't it; It's hard to get enough power/weight out of a Recip engine to allow for p/w > 1. Helo's didn't really work well until the jet turbine was sorted.

RRG had to boost the power of the DB's to unrealistic levels to make it work; hth would they be cooled at take-off?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/griffnav/Gallery/MossiePRsig.jpg

LStarosta
11-25-2006, 10:56 AM
I'll take any new plane I can git.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Daiichidoku
11-25-2006, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
There is no downside http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

downside IS:

the time and energy spent of this POS could have been used in myriad ways....

a 1940 french fighter?
correct loadouts for those types with incorrect?
proper FMs or DMs for certain types?

etc etc etc<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/visibleathf.jpg

Fatoomch
11-25-2006, 11:04 AM
Carrier landings with the lerche! Yeahhh..

AWL_Spinner
11-25-2006, 11:10 AM
downside IS:

the time and energy spent of this POS could have been used in myriad ways....

Common misconception. The Lerche isn't in the sim at the expense of any more "worthy" craft any more than any other aircraft.

It's just the product of some devs who've been supporting this product for five long years kicking back and having some fun. Their choice, not yours or anyone elses. It'd take far less time for a Lerche diversion than the painstaking effort of accurately reproducing a real aircraft - and look at what else you're getting!

You're being handed another cracking IL2 extension product with some fantastic Manchurian content, maps, and 46 aircraft - not all fantasy, worth it for the Arado alone.

If you don't like it, just ignore it. Everyone else will after a few weeks.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers, Spinner

<hr class="ev_code_hr" />
o Squads! Take a look at the ADW War (http://adwwar.com/en/#), it's fantastic!
o Spinner has been alive in ADW for a maximum of: 3hrs 38mins!

leitmotiv
11-25-2006, 11:26 AM
Snorkzuppppppp---yawn---somebody woke me up? Oh, the ghastly Lurch or Loach or Tadpole or Dog-On-a-Bun again. Decadence. Started as a red-hot sim with pretentions to mime real performance---ended as a freak show for the kiddie market. Sic transit gloria mundi. Back to sleep 'til BOB.