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XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 03:10 AM
Have anyone noticed how many hits LAGG3 can take into its wings w/o actual damage in flight modeling? It seems that LAGG3 can take several hits from 20mm cannons w/o damage. Anyone?

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 03:10 AM
Have anyone noticed how many hits LAGG3 can take into its wings w/o actual damage in flight modeling? It seems that LAGG3 can take several hits from 20mm cannons w/o damage. Anyone?

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 04:22 AM
Agree. Some of my experience:
-MG 17 from Bf 109 cause nearly no damage to Lagg3
-If I am flying Bf 109F to shoot Lagg3, my choice is to use MG 17 to threaten the AI-controlled Lagg3 to go away, or use all my ammo to shoot one Lagg3 to explose in mid-air
-I can never shoot a wing off from any Lagg3

It seems that in IL2 FB, Lagg3 is more tough then the P-47 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 05:29 AM
The LaGG-3 still uses the old IL-2 DM, so it will be very durable compared to IL-2FB planes. Hopefully fixed in 1.2 (along with many other planes using old damage system).

Notable is the lack of complex engine damage, lack of wing spars (which cause wings to come off), control cables, radiator or fuel tanks. It is probably the safest plane to fly online because it suffers from no critical failures whatsoever.

Technically the airframe DM should be the same as the La-5 (or even worse), and the engine should be far less durable than La-5.

http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb06894.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb57471.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb11726.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb75733.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb80477.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb64472.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb59442.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb80347.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb73057.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb48642.gif

Message Edited on 08/31/0310:31PM by StG77_Fennec

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 05:32 AM
LOL, why am I constantly getting shot down in them?

I will tell you that the LaGG, like the 190, doesn't display damage to the same degree as it's taken.

When you hit the wing of a LaGG with a 20mm shell, it may not draw the nice graphic, but trust me, it's dipping on the pilot...

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 06:16 AM
<font size=2>To illustrate this phenomenon, I made a nifty little slidshow. Showing old DM vs new.

I subjected the La-5 and LaGG-3 to the TB-3 gauntlet, 16 TB-3s shooting at it form the top, bottom and sides.

I put each plane on level stab so they would be hit the same number of times, recorded tracks and made screenshots after 15, 20, 25 and 50 seconds of punishment from the TB-3s.<table width="910" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3">
<tr>
<td width="384"> </td>
<td width="384">http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/Image12.jpg</td>
<td width="142">The Gauntlet</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>La-5
</td>
<td>LaGG-3
</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/Image2.jpg</td>
<td>http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/Image7.jpg</td>
<td>15 seconds</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/Image3.jpg</td>
<td>http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/Image8.jpg</td>
<td>20 seconds</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/Image4.jpg</td>
<td>http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/Image9.jpg</td>
<td>25 seconds</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/Image5.jpg</td>
<td>http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/Image10.jpg</td>
<td>50 seconds</td>
</tr>
</table>

Notice how by 20 seconds, the La-5 has suffered a pilot kill, control failures, and a gun jam. By 25 seconds, the fuel tank is burning, the engine is destroyed and all of the control cables have been destroyed. By 50 seconds, it is a completely useless airplane, having no pilot, engine, controls, fuel, weapons, and is on fire to boot.

The LaGG-3, on the other hand, survives the gauntlet with no damage whatsoever. The pilot is alive, the controls are ok, the engine is purring, the guns still work, and the fuel tanks are untouched. This after flying the same path as the La-5 that was reduced to burning wreckage, recieving a few hunrded MG hits.

This is why the LaGG-3 is the safest airplane in the game /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Well, except maybe for the FW-190, which also has an old DM.



Message Edited on 08/31/0311:36PM by StG77_Fennec

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:17 AM
Thats not so good a test unless you can say how many times each was hit and where,Dont you think.

No1RAAF_Pourshot


http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/CAC-15.jpg

CAC CA-15 Kangaroo

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 02:50 PM
The planes are subjected to about the same number of hits, and these hits are spread out over the entire airframe. Both planes start the mission at the exact same point, and engage level stab immediately, so the flightpaths are identical (except after the La-5 suffers elevator failure, then it starts to dive). As well, both planes are the same size, with equal exposure to firepower. I'd have made a video instead, but fraps is on the fritz for some reason.

Small differences would be ignored of course, but in the case of La-5/LaGG comparison, the difference is quite large. As well, the comparison is possible due to the fact that the La-5 and LaGG-3 have the same basic airframe.

http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb06894.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb57471.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb11726.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb75733.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb80477.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb64472.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb59442.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb80347.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb73057.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb48642.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 03:48 PM
Its probably a good test if you run it about 10 times each and recorded the end results. From what I see here, its most likely that the results will favour the screen shots taken.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 04:31 PM
I just tried the LaGG-3 and the wing came off rather quickly. Considering that I was shot down by a Yak-9D I am certain that the wings aren't always durable.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 04:34 PM
I´ve noticed something similar, in the SP campaign i tend to avoid LaGG-3´s and leave them to the wingmen, especially when flying the Bf-109 F-2 or F-4.

============================
The important thing in [tactics] is to suppress the enemys useful actions but allow his useless actions. However, doing this alone is defensive.

Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645)
Japanese Samurai and Philosopher
(More than 60 Victories in Hand-to-Hand combat.)

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 04:59 PM
I completely agree.. Lagg3 does not have as complicated damage model as other planes. Never engine damage, never damaged controls, never (or very very very rarely compared to other planes) Pilot kill, even fuel leaks seems to be much rare than with other planes. Plus imo lagg3s are way too agile, they can outturn 109 F4s, when they should be B&Z-birds..they were clumsy and heavy. And lot of wooden parts, so i doubt they were even that strong..

Infact allways when I have killed a Lagg3, the only way to destroy her is to shoot in the wings.. and 99% of my kills on Laggs the other wing has come off.. the Fuselage has been 100% OK. FW-190 DM is far from Lagg-3 damage model, as you have bullet holes and they seriously affect the perfomance of FW-190.. but not to Lagg3s.

____________________________________



Official Sig:



<center>http://koti.mbnet.fi/vipez/shots/Vipez4.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 08:35 PM
I must be playing a different game.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 08:47 PM
Vipez- wrote:
- I completely agree.. Lagg3 does not have as
- complicated damage model as other planes. Never
- engine damage, never damaged controls, never (or
- very very very rarely compared to other planes)
- Pilot kill, even fuel leaks seems to be much rare
- than with other planes. Plus imo lagg3s are way too
- agile, they can outturn 109 F4s, when they should be
- B&Z-birds..they were clumsy and heavy. And lot of
- wooden parts, so i doubt they were even that
- strong..
-
strange.. few 20mm hits and the LaGG´s wing is off, or at least ablaze for me. I would say, the Yak DM is more off, as the wing root is full of holes and still no fire from fuel tanks. And the VK105 engine DM.. can take quite a big punishment, but then stops. Engine fire or smoke is rare.



<center>http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/sig_il2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:20 PM
Try to fly agains the LAGG3 offline. The body and wings can take several 20mm rounds (look at the nice small explosions) and there is no shot up holes in the plane. The plane also handels well and fights hard back when flown by AI. Also in online fights I have many times experienced how LAGG3s are very hard to shoot down with 15mm cannons. Quite funny.

The reason I wanted to raise this question originally is that LAGG3 was one of the most important fighters on the Eastern front. Thus it plays a major role in VEF2 and VOW. It would be fun to have it correctly modeled, cause Axis pilots encounter it many times in missions.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:43 PM
If you comment on a planes damage model, fly with it, not against it. This is the only way to get a correct impression.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:59 PM
I have played this game sooooooo much that I have also flown the plane a lot. Please don't underrate my judgements.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 11:19 PM
hehehe I was just posting this LAGG 3 wing damage before...But I agree..THe lagg 3 is not the only problem ..there are some la 5 , la 7 and P40 wing damage is modelled incorrectly (where guns are stored)
I hope the ll fix it.