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View Full Version : Is the range of the Bf-109E over done in IL2?



mortoma
12-01-2009, 03:46 PM
With all my piddling around with mods, I made up some BoB missions using the BoB map that comes with the AAA mods. Apparently I can't wait for SOW to come out.

One thing that strikes me is how much loiter time I have over Britain when I fly the mod Bf-109E-1. Isn't it a historical fact that the 109s could not fly over Britain, or even the channel very long before they had to RTB due to their short range? I can fly all over the place and hang over Biggin Hill and Kenley RAF bases for the longest time, strafing the bases and wreaking havoc in general. Since these two bases are just south of London, I find it a bit of a stretch to find I can fly for so long and far away from France. Then after landing in France the fuel gauge shows more than a quarter tank to go.

So is this fuel efficiency not done right for some planes? The original E-4 has legs just as long, so it's not a mod problem. Or is is that the Germans were being overly cautious and conservative to be on the safe side?

AndyJWest
12-01-2009, 03:55 PM
Is the AAA map full scale? I seem to remember that it was half-size or something, though I could be wrong. It should be easy enough to figure out from the 10 Km squares on it.

thefruitbat
12-01-2009, 03:59 PM
beta channel map is 1:2, final is 3:4, IRL E4's had enough fuel for roughly 20 mins over london IIRC. Don't know if they have to much in game though, but i wouldn't of thought it was far out if it is.

gazzahh1957
12-01-2009, 04:12 PM
It should take approx 7 mins to cross the chanel at 300 km/h not 3 1/2mins in the game so it is 1:2 scale

thefruitbat
12-01-2009, 04:17 PM
umm, as i said before, the beta is 1:2, the final release is 3:4, no matter what equations you come up with.

venny1962
12-01-2009, 04:21 PM
I think it's about right. I can fly for approx 1hr 10min on a full tank in the Emile with cruising most of the time at less than 60% thottle!

trashcanUK
12-01-2009, 04:45 PM
yes, but do you warm up your engine, form up with your bombers etc etc .... or do you just hit I, taxi out and fly?

DKoor
12-01-2009, 05:02 PM
Also guys don't underrate minutes.
Because here we are talking about them.
You don't wanna believe that average German pilot thought "gee, I'll fly overhere and overthere and I'll still have 10mins of extra time".
That means 10mins that are difference between life and death!
If I were in their place I'd always want to RTB as soon as possible, with maximum safety (not one ended up in the channel drink because of not being smart fuel wise).

Now that you think about it, 109E has awfully short range for such missions.
Downright extreme.


Originally posted by trashcanUK:
yes, but do you warm up your engine, form up with your bombers etc etc .... or do you just hit I, taxi out and fly?
I think they intercepted their own bombers at certain point (starting escort point) or something like that... I think that sometimes they took off from different bases. Fighter bases were always closest to targets.
From what I'm able to recollect.

stalkervision
12-01-2009, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Also guys don't underrate minutes.
Because here we are talking about them.
You don't wanna believe that average German pilot thought "gee, I'll fly overhere and overthere and I'll still have 10mins of extra time".
That means 10mins that are difference between life and death!
If I were in their place I'd always want to RTB as soon as possible, with maximum safety (not one ended up in the channel drink because of not being smart fuel wise).

Now that you think about it, 109E has awfully short range for such missions.
Downright extreme.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trashcanUK:
yes, but do you warm up your engine, form up with your bombers etc etc .... or do you just hit I, taxi out and fly?
I think they intercepted their own bombers at certain point (starting escort point) or something like that... I think that sometimes they took off from different bases. Fighter bases were always closest to targets.
From what I'm able to recollect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Not always!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

mortoma
12-01-2009, 05:12 PM
Well the scale of the map explains all. I thought the whole are seemed a little small.

Treetop64
12-01-2009, 07:20 PM
Why bother with a half-scale map at all?

Metatron_123
12-01-2009, 07:38 PM
Are you serious? Because it offers you options. There's a map of the whole mediterranean, might not be 1:1 scale but it gives you so much to do. I'd rather have the action without the 3 hour flights personally.

SeaFireLIV
12-01-2009, 10:22 PM
When we flew in online wars in BOB we restricted ALL aircraft to 50% fuel. This corrected things somewhat.

Bremspropeller
12-02-2009, 10:57 AM
Most people forget the real important points:

Wingmen unsually run dry first as they have a higher fuel-consumption (corrections in formation-flying and closing-up require more fuel than just flying along on your own plans).

Flying anywhere but your L/Dmax-speed shortens range drastically.


The 10-minute timeframe was not a problem on Freie jagd-missions.
It only got critical when the fighters were tied tightly to the bombers.

So you have two things: a higher fuel-consumption in the first place and a rather short loiter-time above the target.

Kurfurst__
12-02-2009, 04:04 PM
The actual Bf 109E had a maximum range of up to 660 km (1300 w. droptank) with max economy, and up to 2 h - 2 h 40 mins endurance with the right engine settings. Of course in practice its going to be less because of combat, high speed cruises etc., but generally range and endurance alone are not so big concerns if you fly as you do in Il-2.

In real life operations however, you have to wait for the rest of the Staffel to warm up, takeoff and form up; you don't fly straigth to your target but meet up with the bombers... and if the latter are late, say by 20 minutes, that means 20 minutes less escort time.. it often happened. Now imagine coordinating 5-600 fighters and several hundred bombers from different bases.. delays were inevitable.

Treetop64
12-03-2009, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Metatron_123:
Are you serious? Because it offers you options. There's a map of the whole mediterranean, might not be 1:1 scale but it gives you so much to do. I'd rather have the action without the 3 hour flights personally.

Of course I'm serious. Options are fine, but personally, flying over a miniature sized version of Crete would kill the immersion for me. I'd rather have 1:1, or even 4/5 scale sections of the Med than a half scale map covering the whole Med.

Personal preferences I suppose.