PDA

View Full Version : ***SPOILERS***what is the meaning behind "the truth" video? ***SPOILERS***



Pages : [1] 2

killermoneytree
12-02-2009, 08:17 PM
i just finished watching that video after finally doing all those annoying glyphs puzzles, (cheated on about 4 in all ...which is good in my eyes considering how many their are) and the video is all good and that. but even after watching it a few times what the hell is that supposed to tell me? why are they escaping? what are they ecaping from? and ... just so many questions. ubi love their mysteries

SWJS
12-02-2009, 08:24 PM
They're Adam and Eve, and they've stolen the Apple of Eden from "Those who came before", who created humanity to be their slaves. It's actually pretty obvious at the end when they Address each other and Eve holds up the apple.

After the first Solar Flare wiped out most of their people, the humans and precursors worked together to build temples to warn and prevent it from happening again, however the Precursors died out, while humaity prospered, and the humans used the pieces to hide the truth.

Adam and Eve started the war between humans and precursors.

killermoneytree
12-02-2009, 08:37 PM
yes i know all that, that's not what i meant. i was talking about the less obvious stiff like the lines on their body, the bracelet thing on their arms. what were they escaping from? it looked like a labour camp, and when eve said look out....do you think that is when the sun had the flair? -also i dont think the gods arnt so nice, that's why the peices of eden are made to force humans to do their bidding ...just like templars.

An_Idea
12-02-2009, 08:47 PM
im pretty sure the lines on their bodies were just there transparent outfits, so ubi wouldnt get pinned for showing nudity.

they are most likely escaping from the garden of eden after taking the apple or piece of eden. and yeah pretty much it shows what im guessing is a god forcing humans to work with the piece of eden.

in the third game they might shed more light on it, or they could just do what they did with the first one and just leave the info as a mysterious hint into what the templars want like the end of the first game

Redfeather1975
12-02-2009, 09:07 PM
I think they stole the apple because they didn't trust Minerva and the others. They wanted to know the truth about why these god-like beings were making them build all that stuff.
I think at the end of the movie that they were caught trying to steal it.

AronK68
12-03-2009, 07:43 AM
[SPOILER)I think i got something. In glyph 14, subject 16 says something like: Why do we have these abilities, these gifts? because it is in our blood. Then you go solve te puzzle and the cryptic sentence says somthing like: Where our 2 worlds became 1, behold the assassins are born. Then you have to select 5 images where a devine thing makes love with a mortal. Conclusion: Assassins are halfgods.. or at least half human, half 'those who came before'

Assassin_M
12-03-2009, 11:25 AM
yea thats what i thought too maybe altair`s descent is a directly connected to those who came before which explains his eagle vision and partial immunity to the pieces of eden

Millhouse3rd
12-03-2009, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by AronK68:
[SPOILER)I think i got something. In glyph 14, subject 16 says something like: Why do we have these abilities, these gifts? because it is in our blood. Then you go solve te puzzle and the cryptic sentence says somthing like: Where our 2 worlds became 1, behold the assassins are born. Then you have to select 5 images where a devine thing makes love with a mortal. Conclusion: Assassins are halfgods.. or at least half human, half 'those who came before'

The original assassin's perhaps were half-deities, but as the order grew they certainly couldn't remain so exclusive, so they "hired" humans to their ranks. There's a possibilty that the "Gods" were immune to their Pieces of Eden so that inferes that Altair could be a descendant of the original assassin's.

IV_trailer
12-03-2009, 12:36 PM
In glyph 20 you have a puzzle about brains. There is also a manuscript about "useless" transmittor parts in the human brain that no other animal had. They are probably there to rechieve orders of the apple.

killermoneytree
12-05-2009, 09:45 PM
mmmm. thnak you for replying. i just dont get why these "gods" would bring humans to earth just to have them build something, meh. i guess we will find out why subject 16 wanted us to look at it in number 3. there has to be a reason he wanted the assassins to see it.

SWJS
12-05-2009, 10:56 PM
Well, the entire purpose of the truth video was to show that religion and history books and such were all cover-ups, and Subject 16's videos shows what Truly happened. The Precursors created the humans as obedient slaves, but the humans wanted freedom, so Adam and Eve stole the Apple from Eden. They were probably running from guards, and Eden was probably a city that the Precursors lived it, or if not a city, a factory, or classified facility like Area 51. The lines are on futuristic one-piece jumpsuits, the collars on their arms were probably tracking devices, or for identification.

brog011
12-06-2009, 06:23 AM
Didn't anybody notice that the video was seen from outside both Adam and Eve's bodies. that would indicate a third person (who also sounded like desond in the final word/moment)was present and "recording" the memory.

Inregard to the nuerotransmitters, maybe the ability to activate/ learn from previous genetic memories lies dormant within humans and the assassins just happen to have some development in their subconscious minds that makes them more like Assassins. It takes a philosphical mind to throw away religion and emotion, and stick to the creed, "Nothing is true, everythin is permitted".

The apple appears to be a database that may activate the nuerotransmitter in peoples minds, explaining why people bow before it and the assassins have some resistance or control within their bodies to the apples effects.

I think that subject 16 may have gone insane as his body was forced to deal with too much nuerotransmitter too quickly, like an overdose. And Altair struggled with the addiction of uncontrolled use as evidenced by the codex pages. What does this mean for Desmond? I beleive a Struggle with reality, and the possible loss of his identity.

***Spoiler Alert***
This nuerotransmitter may help to extend life as those that came before had longevity to be named multiple gods from multiple cultures, this could provide a link for Ezio to be alive into the modern day, in secret, though I doubt Altair survived as the codex speaks of hm nearing the end of his days.
If Ezio is alive, he may have been driven insane by the perceived manipulation of the minerva hologram and centuries of contemplation. Confronting Desmond in the modern day at one of the mayan/incan temples they are caught in a fight to the death, as Ezio vents his frustration at Desmond before he dies. I see Desmond qouting Ezio his final rights in Italian before finding the secret of the temple.

Black_Widow9
12-06-2009, 01:25 PM
killermoneytree- Please put <span class="ev_code_RED">*SPOILERS*</span> in your title.

rip.curl.chick
12-16-2009, 10:01 PM
i dont understand it all. someone please tell me in words i no the meaning of

Bampire
12-16-2009, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by brog011:
Didn't anybody notice that the video was seen from outside both Adam and Eve's bodies. that would indicate a third person (who also sounded like desond in the final word/moment)was present and "recording" the memory.

Inregard to the nuerotransmitters, maybe the ability to activate/ learn from previous genetic memories lies dormant within humans and the assassins just happen to have some development in their subconscious minds that makes them more like Assassins. It takes a philosphical mind to throw away religion and emotion, and stick to the creed, "Nothing is true, everythin is permitted".

The apple appears to be a database that may activate the nuerotransmitter in peoples minds, explaining why people bow before it and the assassins have some resistance or control within their bodies to the apples effects.

I think that subject 16 may have gone insane as his body was forced to deal with too much nuerotransmitter too quickly, like an overdose. And Altair struggled with the addiction of uncontrolled use as evidenced by the codex pages. What does this mean for Desmond? I beleive a Struggle with reality, and the possible loss of his identity.

***Spoiler Alert***
This nuerotransmitter may help to extend life as those that came before had longevity to be named multiple gods from multiple cultures, this could provide a link for Ezio to be alive into the modern day, in secret, though I doubt Altair survived as the codex speaks of hm nearing the end of his days.
If Ezio is alive, he may have been driven insane by the perceived manipulation of the minerva hologram and centuries of contemplation. Confronting Desmond in the modern day at one of the mayan/incan temples they are caught in a fight to the death, as Ezio vents his frustration at Desmond before he dies. I see Desmond qouting Ezio his final rights in Italian before finding the secret of the temple.
1st paragraph: I thought the same thing, when I watched the video. As it shows only the face of Eve, but not Adam. It would be-like you said Our Desmond.

Though, I personally think that Altair, and Ezio are nothing but reincarnations, which slowly brings us our Desmond we know now. Different past lives, same destiny, same scar we see, and same face. Not only connected by blood, but by soul. Mind and body. They're all but one being, in different times. But that is my thought.

About Ezio becoming immortal comment, I'd have to disagree. Ezio shouldn't be allowed immortality, as he is still a human and has done his deed.. To retrieve and gain more information about the Apple and Staff of Eden. He'd only continue on questioning what has been said to the person he'll never meet, wondering who? and What?

I hope that made sense. :x

NAFOOM
12-17-2009, 02:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Millhouse3rd:
Conclusion: Assassins are halfgods.. or at least half human, half 'those who came before'

The original assassin's perhaps were half-deities, but as the order grew they certainly couldn't remain so exclusive, so they "hired" humans to their ranks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


^^^THIS FOR THE WIN^^^

Reference: Genesis Chapter 6 Nephilim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim)

From

salted onions
12-17-2009, 08:07 AM
Basically the same as what everyone said, I believe the truth video is telling us that the original Assassins were Eve and Adam, who were half human half god. I think this because if you compare their clothing (or lack of it) and compare the clothing of what i believed to be the lowly human workers inside the building, they seemed to be of a higher status of some sort. Not all assassin's are demi-gods because there obviously aren't that many. Altair, Ezio, and Desmond are the descendants of these demigods however for they have special powers such as eagle vision, and an special connection between the gods (a.k.a. Minerva's message).
I'd say more but i'm in school at the moment so being here isn't really a good idea ^_^;.

Xios1986
12-22-2009, 08:18 PM
Right, i'll try and explain the whole thing the way i see it as best i can.

Its a well established Chinese theory that there was once an ancient civilization, highly technologically advanced and more evolved than the present day humans, living a LONG LONG LONG LONG time ago, pre-dating like pre pre pre pre history... you get the picture...

It appears Assassins creed has taken on this theory as its central plot line. Here are my thoughts:

Long before our current state of being there was a time when another race flourished on the earth. This race was highly evolved in comparison to us. you could even say the course of their evolution was more 'complete' than us, in so much as they simply were able to become 'better' than we will ever be able to. Due, in part to the fact we as a species were made by them, so the state of humanity is a distorted imitation of beings we were designed on, It makes allot of sense in respect to our fractured, far from perfect nature as a species.

I think this race (i shall refer to as the 'proto-beings') had a pretty similar course of history to us in many respects, they evolved, through a long time to a point of supreme technological advancement and mental/physical development. Time is relative, advancement as a species is also relative, to us they were highly evolved, purely because we aren't as 'far along' as they got. or possibly because our perception of them is always going to be inferior as we are, by nature, inferior to them.

Eventually they got to a point of technology they could create life, engineer genetics and whatnot, and thus they created a society of beings to do the work they had been doing themselves for so long, (i think humans would do very much the same if we had the opportunity... a practical solution to allot of lifes needs, a synthetically created slave race with a system of mental control as an integral part of the initial design) They designed us very like them as they saw themselves as the most fitting framework to build beings over that could accomplish daily tasks and build and serve e.t.c. (try getting a donkey to build a house...)

Part of the design of this slave race was a system of control, because they understood that any living thing would not like to be a slave, so to solve this (and possibly a moral choice on part of them) they created a system of mental control as part of the design when 'drafting' how to make the slave race, to simply blind their creation (us) from the truth, keeping us in a state of mental illusion. (We can only imagine how far reaching and complete the effects of a willful manipulation of perception of reality will be like to experience)

When designing the race on themselves, it appears they very well may have inadvertantly also distilled in the slave race their (the proto-beings) need from freedom of individuality of choice e.t.c, possibly this is just a natural aspect of sentience they forsaw as an issue in their creation when in the context of them creating a slave race. The natural desire for freedom, anyway.

Part of the design was a system of control, so the Pieces of eden were made along with the slave race, a sembyosis. We as the slave race have in us as part of our very design neuro-transmiters created specifically to be manipulated by the force emited by the pieces of eden (as hinted on in one of the files unlocked in one of the puzzle glyphs), and consequently, the pieces of eden were designed and built specifically to effect that neurotransmitter in us, inorder to control us. As i said, a sembyosis.

This is why the pieces of eden have such an effect over us, it is a specific deliberate relationship between us (humans, the slave race) and the pieces of eden, alone.
The pieces of Eden are advanced 'tools' of technology designed specifically to effect (arguably) every aspect of our being, physically and mentally, en-mass and individually, as we are both (us and the PoEs) two mutual ends of a synthetic creation designed for a specific purpose.

Time went on in this ancient Civilization and for a time everything was ok, we as the slave race worked away blissfully unaware of the truth of our reality, kept indefinately inside a mental prison kept in place by the pieces of eden...

for this was our purpose, the very reason of our creation.

yet the proto-beings made us to much like them and for some reason something changed, unhappiness in us began.
Wether it was cross breeding between the proto beings and humans, or basic evolution.. who knows. What IS known, it seems, as at some point the effect of the pieces of eden seemed to weaken. Now the 'ins and outs' of why where and how and how widespread in regards to this point is easily a long discussion of its own so i will stick to what is known.

a man and a woman of the slave race named Adam and Eve, for whatever reason, knew to some degree that they and their race were being controlled by these pieces of eden, they found themselves, for an amount of time, outside of this mental control.

So they took it upon themselves to revolt against their masters and succeeded in stealing a piece of eden. Now if we are going on established religion as an acurate metaphor, Eve stole the apple from the tree of knowledge (think about the relative metophorical connotations of this statement in relation to the current subject). This caused our entire race to fall from this state of ignorant bliss, to wake up from the mind prison. (to fall from grace)

This created a war, as mentioned by minerva in the end scene. the slave race rose up against the proto-beings after having awakened to the truth of their situation. The slave race either left, or were banished from Eden, the civilized area the proto-beings lived. (man was banished from the gardens of eden).

The war raged, and both the proto-beings and mankind were so busy on eachother a solar flare was not noticed and it hit the earth burning everything to a crisp. very very few survived.

Now it is possible that Adam and eve having the piece of eden heavily influenced the fact they survived the catastrophy, that is protected them somehow, and thus began a new tree of evolution that leads to the present day mankind. (hence the legend of Adam and Eve in established belief)

Ovre time history turned into legend turned into myth and eventually became all but forgotten, twisted and distorted through various political means and the artefacts' (which survived the catastrophy) true purpose was lost. And because we are a species intimately linked with being controlled and manipulated, it grew naturally from us as time went by, and a branch of us became the templars, hell bent on finding these pieces of eden to control and gain power over us all.

It is also possible that a chain of events took place, a long standing prophesy right from the beginning. If you choose to believe that Adam and eve are half human half proto-being (supporting the fact they seem to be imune form the effects of the pieces of eden), and take into account that Subject 16 is a direct descendent of Adam or Eve, and an assassins (this would explain why the assassins have increased agility and certain powers like eagle vision). It is possible that the cross breeding 'had' to have happened, the uprising 'had' to have happened as Eve and Adam HAD to get the apple to survive inorder to be the begining of a line of assassins that reaches up to the present day, through Altair to leave codexes for Ezio for Desmond to experience through him while hooked into the Animus, for Minerva to speak to Desmond through Ezio. Time is relative. Its a chain of events, everything having to be in its place... like a tapestry across time.

Inorder for Minerva to get the message to Desmond that a new catastrophy is coming (solar flare) and this chain of events has put Desmond exactly where he needs to be with the abilities he needs, due to his lineage, inorder to accomplish his task, to find all the pieces of eden and use them to protect the planet from the coming solar flare.

ok... i'm done.

itsamea-mario
12-23-2009, 06:28 AM
/\
|
|
|
WOW i was thinkin similar, but WOW put it into an amazin context.

P459
12-23-2009, 10:05 AM
@ Xios: I really enjoyed reading your post and I agree with you.

In one of the last codex pages Altair writes
"But I have sworn to be done with this artifact.
To not gaze into its core. Still: faced as I am with the prospect of my end, what harm is there in one last look..."

I have a feeling that perhaps something went wrong.

Xios1986
12-23-2009, 05:40 PM
Thank you for your replies.

I would like to go into more detail with some of the points i've raised as after reading through what i put i have realized i have skimmed over some quite important points in the context of solidifying this theory as an accurate one.

I would also like to pose a few questions about the surrounding context and state my thoughts on these points.

Firstly, are Adam and Eve 'cross breeds' and how is this related to the protagosnists in the plot?
Firstly, take into account that the proto-beings could be classed for the sake of this statement as 'super-human' in relation to humanity. so, genetically speaking Adam and Eve having super human traits (as seen in the truth video) due to them having proto-human genes, to me is a fair assumption.
It also accounts for their partial immunity to the pieces of eden, granting them the ability to perceive reality accurately, causing the events to unfold leading to Eve's acquisition of the apple.

Now presuming what i have said to be true leads nicely onto my next thought.

A blood line of Assassins hold certain hereditary Genes from Adam and Eve (so by-proxy the proto-beings), noting specifically the 'super-human (think, proto-being)' traits seen in the Altair, Ezio, Desmond bloodline specifically. If you noticed Altair is seen as a 'legend' In the Creed, why? His 'super-human' traits super seeding the abilities of his brethren in the creed, enabling him to elevate to the status of 'legend'. Also note the highly evolved abilities of Ezio in comparison to the fellow assassins, even before he was taught by his uncle (also in the family... hint hint) did u notice his ability to simply 'hop about' the rooftops, a skill only shared to the same degree by his brother (hint hint), and the fact he ends up becoming 'the prophet'... why? does it have anything to do with him having 'super-human' genes, granting him abilities in excess of his peers?
Also note Desmonds uncanny ability to pick up the skills of his ancestors and the speed at which he does so. Does this all not highly hint the prospect of that blood line specifically having something 'special' about it. So then is it not possible that subject 16 is some form of family relation to desmond. The truth video is a memory of subject 16 encoded in his DNA, an indesputible genetic connection between subject 16 and Adam or Eve. If Desmond went deep enough would he to uncover the same memory? how are Desmond and subject 16 able to access the same memories? - i see some kind of relation, i truly think Desmond and subject 16 are closer than is given credit.

So to put this into context, it possible to presume what survived of the slave race, after the catastrophy, gradually became what we know of as humanity today. Apart from that, Adam and eve (the only ones we know of as being 'cross breeds') had their own children, which flowed through time as a 'family tree' in which Altair, Ezio, Desmond and subject 16 sit. That is why they are 'key' in the plot. Why is the story from their perspective and not another? why does Abstergo have such desire for 'them' specifically? (why did they push subject 16 so far?) it is mentioned that Abstergo have been looking for 'certain' people, and that subject 16 and desmond are 'those'. Why those two? Well, it seems because both of their ancestors hold such a close relation to the pieces of eden through history. why?... Desmond and subject 16, for all accounts of logic seems to share the same genetic memories. Why? because they are related! its the only answer...

So if subject 16 is directly descended from Adam and Eve, doesn't that mean Desmond is? Not to mention Altair and Ezio. to me... it makes sense.

What happened to the Proto-beings and who are they?
Ancient Eqypt comes to mind, the fabled stories of Gods communing with man. Same with the Greek Myths and that of Christianity, so on and so forth. All of established, mainstream religious and general theological study, when observed in this metophorical context fits nicely into this theory. That they gradually died off, pointed to through the writings of various ancient civilizations.

The question begs, Are the proto-beings GODS? well, i think the answer is a paradox. Yes and no. To us they are, they created us. Taking the definition of GOD into account:
a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality

to me, that fits. All-be-it synthetically, still...
Yes from the perspective of humanity they are gods, yet this is a relative perspective, accurate only to us due to the specific relationship we have with them.
simultaneously, they are no more than sentient beings that existed on earth, exactly the same as we do, that got to the point of being able to engineer genetics and create life. To themselves they probably perceive themselves similarly to the way we perceive ourselves... are we gods? if we created a life, formed a race of beings, would we class ourselves gods? knowing everything we do about ourselves with and without relation to the beings we created, i think that, no, we wouldn't. we would still see ourselves accurately as mere beings that have evolved through natural means to a point of being able to manipulate matter and genetics in order to create life.

So in the context of the 'Sins Creed' view, does humanities belief of being created by supreme beings, that create our reality (in relation to the PoE's, yup, still fits), are the puppeteers behind the scenes (think Shiva, RA, Isis, Zeus, Loki, Minerva, Neptune, Tiamat... so on and so forth), still fit in regards to established real life belief?, astoundingly, yes, it does. Kudos to the creative directors is all I've got to say!

What is Eden and where is it?
this is a short point. From the video it appears mount Kilimanjaro is visible in the background. This means Eden was in Africa. The clever thing here is its been discovered in real world science that due to tracking of the y chromosome, that the "matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) for all living humans" can be found in Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve - if you look at the picture on the right of the wiki page Mount Kilimanjaro is located within the grey circle indicating the location of MRCA; Mount Kilimanjaro is located in Tanzania - "Mitochondrial Eve is believed to have lived within the East African region around Tanzania" - coincidence?... I THINK NOT! :P)

If there was a catastrophe wiping out 99% of the population of earth, and Adam and Eve survived due to the protection from the Piece of Eden they stole which led to the redevelopment of the human evolutionary tree, then accurately so our MRCA would indeed fall in the same place.
So Eden was in Africa. And also, i think its worth mentioning, if we ever find out the classified date of the truth video i believe it will fall somewhere between: 158,000 and 198,000 B.C.E. so keep that in mind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

A clarified explanation of my last few paragraphs in the first post
In regards to the 'chain of events' i mentioned about everything happening for a reason.
Look at it this way.
The first catastrophe could have been avoided if attention was being payed to the heavens. I believe the proto-beings could have stopped it from happening. But because Adam and Eve stole the Piece of Eden causing attention to be payed instead to the unfolding war, by doing that they triggered the need of a chain of events to take place over millenia, and solidified their role in this long standing prophesy by being the begining of the blood line that the proto-beings could use at specific intervals through time.
It all started with the creation of the cross-breeds (Adam and Eve), which were destined to steal the Apple, freeing their people and drastically changing the course of future events for that planet. Changing the dominant species into the present day situation by triggering the war that caused a lack of attention to be payed to the heavens at a vital point.
Next, Altair, which is a descendant of Adam and Eve, comes into close contact with the same piece of eden his ancestors stole and left his legacy encoded in the Codexes for someone with the ability to do so to decode them and discover the secret.
This raises the point that this 'proto-gene' in the protagonists bloodline may be dormant in some generations, only being active in some, which is normal genetic behaviour. It also makes sense when taking into account the timespan between Altair, Ezio and Desmond.
Then Ezio comes along and decodes the Codexes, as he was always destined to do so, leading him uncontrollably to meet with Minerva. Now this is where it gets interesting...
I think its logical to presume that he was always destined to do so, as the message was not for him, it was for Desmond. Which means by-proxy desmond was always destined to be plugged into the animus to experience the conversation Ezio has with Minerva, which means Altair was always destined to find the Apple in-order to leave his legacy for Ezio to decode, which means Adam and Eve were always destined to steal the apple to cause the catastrophe diminishing the genetic pool and creating the branch of assassins, which means the 'cross breeds' were always destined to be born in which the laws of causality dictates unfolded the events leading to the stealing of the apple, the war and subsequent failure of the great catastrophe.

Its difficult to perceive this, as we are so used to seeing time as a linear chain of uni-directional causality, and this 'prophetic, fatalistic' network of events spanning a great expanse of time where somethings happen in the past that are to be experienced in the future to effect the present, which at each individual point the terms 'past present and future' are interchangeable corresponding to the related context that is being regarded, is obviously dam confusing! lol... its hard to explain. but i hope you understand what i'm trying to say.

Well, i think thats about it. I've probably still missed out bits here and there but right now i can't think of what. I may add more to it when stuff comes to mind. I also feel certain aspects of Adam and Eve's relationship to Humanities evolution and the protagonists bloodline hold certain inconsistencies and i will rethink and revise those points that have certain contradictory elements. But hey, its just a theory.

Thanks for taking your time to read, its taken me 4 hours!

Peace, Xios.

Bampire
12-24-2009, 02:20 AM
Damn Xios, that's one epic post. You made so much sense, I can only praise how awesome it was to read it all, thanks for sharing. All I can say is that I concur with your beliefs and they do make sense.

Bravo.

Xios1986
12-24-2009, 01:08 PM
why thank you kind sir!
I'm glad it makes sense to someone else! hah. After reading through a few more things and going as far as writing what i have already in this thread i have ushered myself into compiling a load of different opinions and points made on these forums, collecting all the info from the files in the glyphs, the info written in the books and my own opinions and putting it all together into an 'as complete as i can manage' theory of the Sin Creed story line.

it may take me a little while. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

thanks for your reply.

Bampire
12-24-2009, 05:43 PM
HAhaha. No problem, though. I'm a female. I know it's confusing because of the name and there's no sign of gender in anything I do. ( I don't blame you, so don't feel embarrassed. :P)

But you're very well welcomed. So much time spent on something deserves a read or a look-over by another being. I hope others decide to read it. It's well worth the time and effort, since everything does seem to come into play.

Xios1986
12-24-2009, 07:38 PM
oh ok, oops, lol. fair enough.

I've spent most of the day picking through the Glyph puzzles and i'm writting out an analysis of everything i've found.... WOW theres some absolutely amazing stuff hidden in them. If you take every little point and research into it, the pictures, the people, the dates e.t.c. their all connected and they all fall accurately in real life events. Theres also some amazing stuff about strange unexplained things happening through history.

For example the Hexadecimal cipher on the photo at Brest, france (puzzle 4) reads "Antikythera Mechanism, much older than 150 B.C.E." look into the Antikythera Mechanism.

the caption of the same picture states "Members of the second Infantry division Advance under Machine gun fire into the outskirts of breast france 1944."after a little research i found out this was one of the begining moves of of the Invasion of Normandy, France. After a little more research i came across this:
"(7 June 1944). The 15th FA Bn fought for 73 straight days ***in support of the 2nd Infantry Division*** throughout Normandy without a break. Their first break in the combat action came on 19 August 1944, when the 15th FA Bn was ordered to move 220 miles and occupy firing positions for the battle against the German fortress at Brest, France. The battle that ensued was bloody and hard fought by all elements of the 2nd Infantry Division including the 15th FA Bn. On 26 September 1944, five officers and 42 enlisted men of the 15th FA Bn were presented Bronze Star Medals, by the Division Commander, for their actions since D Day +1" ( - 73 straight days! then traveled 220 miles and jumped right into that HUGE battle at Brest (the picture is of the 2nd infantry devision arriving at the battle if Brest) without a days rest!?!)



In the same puzzle is a picture of "Burning Viet cong base camp, my tho, Vietnam, 1968" - i researched into the picture and found an original with the caption "In the foreground is Private First Class Raymond Rumpa, St Paul, Minnesota, C Company, 3rd Battalion, 47th Infantry, 9th Infantry Division, with 45-pound 90mm recoiless rifle. 04/05/1968 Photograph Courtesy of the National Archives & Records Administration"

I found out the Tet Offensive began in 1968 and found that "My Tho" played an important role in the Tet offensive, which is essentially one of the majour operations of the vietnam war.

I also found "in the I Corps area on 12 February 1968, Battery C, 1st Battalion, 40th Artillery (105-mm), while in support of a South Vietnamese unit, ***became the first US Army artillery unit to fire improved conventional munitions in combat***. The target was 40 to 50 North Vietnamese troops in the open. The battery fired 54 rounds of the new ammunition, resulting in 14 enemy killed." - (possible influence of PoE? long shot, but interesting connection non the less...)

encoded as a cypher is also the name of an ancient Indian City that has been found to have suffered a NUCLEAR EXPLOSION in the year 150 B.C.E.?!?!?! - real world stuff i'm talking about here! i've got a really interesting article on it.

theres is also encoded in the final picture the mention of "Sumerian. Me 23"... Sumerian 'ME' are a set of attributes assigned to humanity by the Gods hey can be as abstract as an emotion, or a thing, like art. However they take the 'form' of an object so rather than a list (like the ten commandments) there are actually, according to this belief, actual 'objects' the gods granted to humanity to represent traits and/or capabilities e.t.c.

ME 23 is 'weapons' and the definition of weapons is "a tool used to apply force for the purpose of causing harm or damage"

the quote at the top of the image the cypher is in is "This MONSTER did not come from man." - In the context of the whole puzzle, which is conveying the force of brutality and the aspect of 'weaponry/war' in our reality. It is implying that this aspect of reality was implanted by the 'proto-beings' an analogy is drawn as "Sumerian ME 23"

I've also found out that there are at least 4 of the 'apple' type PoE's and they each have a specific atribute in as much as the force/influence they exert has a specific 'nature', the 4th of the Apple types 'is essentially' this ME 23 (the concept of war/weaponry)...

GOD theres just SO MUCH MORE!!! i could go on and on and on...

I'm going to be really on this missions and i'm gonna put it all together in a big massive compilation, i might even have to turn it into a website/wiki type thing.

This game is freekishly well made. its INSANE!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bampire
12-24-2009, 08:03 PM
Damn, you're just getting more and more into the facts and the fiction. That's awesome though, goes to show you understand more and more and appreciate such an intense game(s).

I love how they hired Historians for the making of the games, just to make it more uncanny to history itself. What's funny is that once you're into such a game then read up on the history of each area of AC1/2 you kind of forget about what is real and what is not. With the fictional attributes.

This is why I love this franchise.

You cease to amaze me, with your posts, Xios. Keep it coming!

CannedBullets
12-25-2009, 03:40 AM
At the part where they're at the window with the workers, you can kinda see Minerva's shadow.

Danteire
12-25-2009, 06:33 PM
So, first off, well done Xios. Lots of great info there. Hope I can offer a bit more details as I have observed.

I think the Apple is more than a control device, I think it acts as an informational conduit, able to pass knowledge to the workers. How else would basic humans be able to craft the Pieces of Eden so well, think how complex they would be and anyone making it would remember what they did unless the skills and info were short term memory implants! Pure specualtion on my part though.

As for Adam, Eve and the human survivors weathering the solar flare, Minerva talks about how some of her race anticipated the flare and constructed the vaults to either create a field to block out the magnetic force or at least survive the ensuing apocalypse, Look at the map displayed from the Apple at the end of AC1, some are in the ocean (Atlantis??). I think Eden, the proto-humans and Adam&Eve all took place at the point when all the continents were stil joined together, and the polar field switch caused them to split and seperate. So the Apple couldnt help Adam & Eve to survive, but the knowledge contained within led them to one where they and the other humans who survived took shelter.

These are what Abstergo is hunting, and why Lucy goes "We were so wrong" at the start of AC2 as you break out, they thought they were repositories of technology and more Pieces of Eden but are in fact safehouses. And now Desmond has to reactivate them (look at how the Apple only displays the map when Altair approaches it at the end, could it be genetically locked to prevent non-protos accessing the info??) Now whether they act as bomb shelters or more (I think by Minervas description they will shield Earth from the solar flare when all operational) but couldnt reach their full potential, maybe by Adam & Eve capturing one and ousting the proto-humans there!!

Yeah, most of that was probably nonsense, but meh.

And I too was freaked when Minerva broke the forth wall and starts talking to you and not Ezio. Last time I was that scared by a game was playing MGS2 at 3 in the morning, saying Im tired, should stop playing and go to sleep.....only for Col. Campbell to say "You look tired, maybe you should stop playing and get some rest" a minute later.......

Bampire
12-25-2009, 07:20 PM
Danteire. I have to add something to the Atlantis mentioning. I've been thinking since I completed AC1 a couple weeks back. Whilst glancing at the hologram of the globe from the Apple I had the thought that maybe there's a reference to Atlantis in these games. Then 2-3 weeks later I complete AC2 and the thought came up once more. I was just waiting for Minerva making a reference to her being the superior race that lore and history spoke of before the collapse.

Though, this is only but a mere thought, but it could and could not be true in the up coming game. Proto's could've lived on a land before it was destoryed and they called Atlantis and moved to a greater land which is the Garden of Eden, which is to be said to be located in Africa.

Going into it, and I'm just running off what's on my mind and not what I've read somewhere. That once these beings were refuge on Earth, creating the human race and all that fun stuff, that they lived on Atlantis. Once Adam and Eve left the Garden with the Apple something severe happened to them, as we all know from what Minerva spoke of through Ezio to Desmond in the end.

But, reading back to what I was typing a few seconds ago I can see my post makes no sense, but in the end what ever makes sense? These beings had a place called "Atlantis" and within this place the garden is mentioned, somewhat like a Bio-dome so-to-speak.

Anyway I don't think I have much more to add, for the time being. Anyone who understands what I mean, please add in your point of view. I'd greatly appreciate some input on this thought.

mh.dichter
12-25-2009, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by Xios1986:
Thank you for your replies.

I would like to go into more detail with some of the points i've raised as after reading through what i put i have realized i have skimmed over some quite important points in the context of solidifying this theory as an accurate one.

I would also like to pose a few questions about the surrounding context and state my thoughts on these points.

Firstly, are Adam and Eve 'cross breeds' and how is this related to the protagosnists in the plot?
Firstly, take into account that the proto-beings could be classed for the sake of this statement as 'super-human' in relation to humanity. so, genetically speaking Adam and Eve having super human traits (as seen in the truth video) due to them having proto-human genes, to me is a fair assumption.
It also accounts for their partial immunity to the pieces of eden, granting them the ability to perceive reality accurately, causing the events to unfold leading to Eve's acquisition of the apple.

Now presuming what i have said to be true leads nicely onto my next thought.

A blood line of Assassins hold certain hereditary Genes from Adam and Eve (so by-proxy the proto-beings), noting specifically the 'super-human (think, proto-being)' traits seen in the Altair, Ezio, Desmond bloodline specifically. If you noticed Altair is seen as a 'legend' In the Creed, why? His 'super-human' traits super seeding the abilities of his brethren in the creed, enabling him to elevate to the status of 'legend'. Also note the highly evolved abilities of Ezio in comparison to the fellow assassins, even before he was taught by his uncle (also in the family... hint hint) did u notice his ability to simply 'hop about' the rooftops, a skill only shared to the same degree by his brother (hint hint), and the fact he ends up becoming 'the prophet'... why? does it have anything to do with him having 'super-human' genes, granting him abilities in excess of his peers?
Also note Desmonds uncanny ability to pick up the skills of his ancestors and the speed at which he does so. Does this all not highly hint the prospect of that blood line specifically having something 'special' about it. So then is it not possible that subject 16 is some form of family relation to desmond. The truth video is a memory of subject 16 encoded in his DNA, an indesputible genetic connection between subject 16 and Adam or Eve. If Desmond went deep enough would he to uncover the same memory? how are Desmond and subject 16 able to access the same memories? - i see some kind of relation, i truly think Desmond and subject 16 are closer than is given credit.

So to put this into context, it possible to presume what survived of the slave race, after the catastrophy, gradually became what we know of as humanity today. Apart from that, Adam and eve (the only ones we know of as being 'cross breeds') had their own children, which flowed through time as a 'family tree' in which Altair, Ezio, Desmond and subject 16 sit. That is why they are 'key' in the plot. Why is the story from their perspective and not another? why does Abstergo have such desire for 'them' specifically? (why did they push subject 16 so far?) it is mentioned that Abstergo have been looking for 'certain' people, and that subject 16 and desmond are 'those'. Why those two? Well, it seems because both of their ancestors hold such a close relation to the pieces of eden through history. why?... Desmond and subject 16, for all accounts of logic seems to share the same genetic memories. Why? because they are related! its the only answer...

So if subject 16 is directly descended from Adam and Eve, doesn't that mean Desmond is? Not to mention Altair and Ezio. to me... it makes sense.

What happened to the Proto-beings and who are they?
Ancient Eqypt comes to mind, the fabled stories of Gods communing with man. Same with the Greek Myths and that of Christianity, so on and so forth. All of established, mainstream religious and general theological study, when observed in this metophorical context fits nicely into this theory. That they gradually died off, pointed to through the writings of various ancient civilizations.

The question begs, Are the proto-beings GODS? well, i think the answer is a paradox. Yes and no. To us they are, they created us. Taking the definition of GOD into account:
a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality

to me, that fits. All-be-it synthetically, still...
Yes from the perspective of humanity they are gods, yet this is a relative perspective, accurate only to us due to the specific relationship we have with them.
simultaneously, they are no more than sentient beings that existed on earth, exactly the same as we do, that got to the point of being able to engineer genetics and create life. To themselves they probably perceive themselves similarly to the way we perceive ourselves... are we gods? if we created a life, formed a race of beings, would we class ourselves gods? knowing everything we do about ourselves with and without relation to the beings we created, i think that, no, we wouldn't. we would still see ourselves accurately as mere beings that have evolved through natural means to a point of being able to manipulate matter and genetics in order to create life.

So in the context of the 'Sins Creed' view, does humanities belief of being created by supreme beings, that create our reality (in relation to the PoE's, yup, still fits), are the puppeteers behind the scenes (think Shiva, RA, Isis, Zeus, Loki, Minerva, Neptune, Tiamat... so on and so forth), still fit in regards to established real life belief?, astoundingly, yes, it does. Kudos to the creative directors is all I've got to say!

What is Eden and where is it?
this is a short point. From the video it appears mount Kilimanjaro is visible in the background. This means Eden was in Africa. The clever thing here is its been discovered in real world science that due to tracking of the y chromosome, that the "matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) for all living humans" can be found in Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve - if you look at the picture on the right of the wiki page Mount Kilimanjaro is located within the grey circle indicating the location of MRCA; Mount Kilimanjaro is located in Tanzania - "Mitochondrial Eve is believed to have lived within the East African region around Tanzania" - coincidence?... I THINK NOT! :P)

If there was a catastrophe wiping out 99% of the population of earth, and Adam and Eve survived due to the protection from the Piece of Eden they stole which led to the redevelopment of the human evolutionary tree, then accurately so our MRCA would indeed fall in the same place.
So Eden was in Africa. And also, i think its worth mentioning, if we ever find out the classified date of the truth video i believe it will fall somewhere between: 158,000 and 198,000 B.C.E. so keep that in mind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

A clarified explanation of my last few paragraphs in the first post
In regards to the 'chain of events' i mentioned about everything happening for a reason.
Look at it this way.
The first catastrophe could have been avoided if attention was being payed to the heavens. I believe the proto-beings could have stopped it from happening. But because Adam and Eve stole the Piece of Eden causing attention to be payed instead to the unfolding war, by doing that they triggered the need of a chain of events to take place over millenia, and solidified their role in this long standing prophesy by being the begining of the blood line that the proto-beings could use at specific intervals through time.
It all started with the creation of the cross-breeds (Adam and Eve), which were destined to steal the Apple, freeing their people and drastically changing the course of future events for that planet. Changing the dominant species into the present day situation by triggering the war that caused a lack of attention to be payed to the heavens at a vital point.
Next, Altair, which is a descendant of Adam and Eve, comes into close contact with the same piece of eden his ancestors stole and left his legacy encoded in the Codexes for someone with the ability to do so to decode them and discover the secret.
This raises the point that this 'proto-gene' in the protagonists bloodline may be dormant in some generations, only being active in some, which is normal genetic behaviour. It also makes sense when taking into account the timespan between Altair, Ezio and Desmond.
Then Ezio comes along and decodes the Codexes, as he was always destined to do so, leading him uncontrollably to meet with Minerva. Now this is where it gets interesting...
I think its logical to presume that he was always destined to do so, as the message was not for him, it was for Desmond. Which means by-proxy desmond was always destined to be plugged into the animus to experience the conversation Ezio has with Minerva, which means Altair was always destined to find the Apple in-order to leave his legacy for Ezio to decode, which means Adam and Eve were always destined to steal the apple to cause the catastrophe diminishing the genetic pool and creating the branch of assassins, which means the 'cross breeds' were always destined to be born in which the laws of causality dictates unfolded the events leading to the stealing of the apple, the war and subsequent failure of the great catastrophe.

Its difficult to perceive this, as we are so used to seeing time as a linear chain of uni-directional causality, and this 'prophetic, fatalistic' network of events spanning a great expanse of time where somethings happen in the past that are to be experienced in the future to effect the present, which at each individual point the terms 'past present and future' are interchangeable corresponding to the related context that is being regarded, is obviously dam confusing! lol... its hard to explain. but i hope you understand what i'm trying to say.

Well, i think thats about it. I've probably still missed out bits here and there but right now i can't think of what. I may add more to it when stuff comes to mind. I also feel certain aspects of Adam and Eve's relationship to Humanities evolution and the protagonists bloodline hold certain inconsistencies and i will rethink and revise those points that have certain contradictory elements. But hey, its just a theory.

Thanks for taking your time to read, its taken me 4 hours!

Peace, Xios.

I really appreciate all of your input but there are things that bother me.

1)You can see Adam's face, not as clear as say Eve's but you can see his beard-ed face.

2)I don't believe Eden is in Africa. I don't think thats Mt Kilimanjaro in the final image. I think it's Toba in Indonesia-Sumatra...which in Sanskrit translates to 'island of gold' which i could apply that's a reference to Eden or some of the pieces of eden that looked gold (remember there are at least 30 something pieces). It was referenced in the video when we learned about the solar flare. In real history it was hypothesized that there was an eruption from (volcano) Toba that almost ended mankind 70,000-75,000 years ago, leaving only 1,000 mating couples. Which fits the time frame. And in the beginning of the video they run past these vents, that are venting smoke and steam. So that makes me think at least that mountain is a volcano. Of course that video where you learn about the solar flare, it says that was not the case...but it was the spot, so it would be easy for humans researching the area to believe that a volcano caused the wipeout.

3) I don't think Desmond is a descendant of Adam or Eve. The video first looks like you're following one of them, but Adam and Eve keep looking back...because they're being chased. All the movements come from 1st person of the the person chasing them i think. It's confusing, because parts of it make me think it's 3 people escaping, but Eve and Adam seemed shock when her name is called...by Desmond's voice it seems. not to mention Subject 16 is the one who made the video, so he has access to it and hid it.

3) The problem with 16. In collecting the Truth videos, you can hear him progressively get crazy. there's even instances where he's seemingly jumping periods of time, perspective to perspective, within seconds. He even described being in a theatre and shooting someone (Lincoln I assume), but then jumping to a nice calming scene. Its hard to think that 16 has that many assassin ancestors that hes seemingly in every major period. It could be that he's somehow fused with memories already recorded in the animus from other subjects, which made him mad.

5)Catscan. That spot in the brain that no other being has, I think wasn't originally there. Minerva said they made the humans better,(and that they are not Gods) so they couldn't die out they would last. that spot seems to be where a kind of master switch that can unlock ones full potential. I.e. jumping, climbing, fighting, the ability to learn and adapt.

I think thats all i can say for now. what do you think?

mikeh1294
12-26-2009, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by mh.dichter:
I really appreciate all of your input but there are things that bother me.

1)You can see Adam's face, not as clear as say Eve's but you can see his beard-ed face.

2)I don't believe Eden is in Africa. I don't think thats Mt Kilimanjaro in the final image. I think it's Toba in Indonesia-Sumatra...which in Sanskrit translates to 'island of gold' which i could apply that's a reference to Eden or some of the pieces of eden that looked gold (remember there are at least 30 something pieces). It was referenced in the video when we learned about the solar flare. In real history it was hypothesized that there was an eruption from (volcano) Toba that almost ended mankind 70,000-75,000 years ago, leaving only 1,000 mating couples. Which fits the time frame. And in the beginning of the video they run past these vents, that are venting smoke and steam. So that makes me think at least that mountain is a volcano. Of course that video where you learn about the solar flare, it says that was not the case...but it was the spot, so it would be easy for humans researching the area to believe that a volcano caused the wipeout.

3) I don't think Desmond is a descendant of Adam or Eve. The video first looks like you're following one of them, but Adam and Eve keep looking back...because they're being chased. All the movements come from 1st person of the the person chasing them i think. It's confusing, because parts of it make me think it's 3 people escaping, but Eve and Adam seemed shock when her name is called...by Desmond's voice it seems. not to mention Subject 16 is the one who made the video, so he has access to it and hid it.

But the ancestor in the animus is viewed in 3rd person, so therefore it stands to reason that the person who was watching Adam and Eve was their descendant.

3) The problem with 16. In collecting the Truth videos, you can hear him progressively get crazy. there's even instances where he's seemingly jumping periods of time, perspective to perspective, within seconds. He even described being in a theatre and shooting someone (Lincoln I assume), but then jumping to a nice calming scene. Its hard to think that 16 has that many assassin ancestors that hes seemingly in every major period. It could be that he's somehow fused with memories already recorded in the animus from other subjects, which made him mad.

Why not? Being an assassins was a family business, sons are initiated into the ranks of the assassins by their fathers, so he would have had ancestors all over the place.

5)Catscan. That spot in the brain that no other being has, I think wasn't originally there. Minerva said they made the humans better,(and that they are not Gods) so they couldn't die out they would last. that spot seems to be where a kind of master switch that can unlock ones full potential. I.e. jumping, climbing, fighting, the ability to learn and adapt.

I think the part of the brain is added so that they can be controlled by the Pieces of Eden

I think thats all i can say for now. what do you think?

Answers are in bold.

Anyway, you know when you have to select certain things in the pictures? e.g. the Assassins Symbol. It sometimes has a small code on the picture.

On one of the Tesla ones, it says "A=C" and then has a list of jumbled up letters, which when translated give:

"HE USED IT TO DEVELOP A BOTTOMLESS SOURCE OF ENERGY. TELEFUNKEN WIRELESS STATION"

I have only got this one, but there are lots more, could someone with the pictures post the ciphers and their keys?

P.S. What about the unlock codes for the videos, do they mean anything? (The code for the above Tesla one is 61902, maybe we could get a list going?)

EDIT: I've just found out that the Telefunken Wireless Station was one of the most advanced wireless stations in existence, and built by Tesla himself on Long Island. (Piece of Eden helping the creators?)
Two major messages were sent from there during WW1. The first was a message to sink the Lusitania, which some of you may know about, and the second was sent to Mexico, asking them to attack America to prevent them from entering the European war.

Xios1986
12-26-2009, 01:54 PM
In reply to mh.dichter:

"1)You can see Adam's face, not as clear as say Eve's but you can see his beard-ed face."

Indeed you can, After a close examination of the truth video it is evident his face is visible at various points. I have captured and enlarged these points in the video for inspection purposes. Feel free to take a look and draw some conclusion as to who he may or not may resemble.

Please excuse the bad quality, theres very little i can do about that due to having to zoom in on a small area of the video.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1571/adamclosebig.jpg

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5327/adamcloseup2.jpg

To me the only point we can make with certainty is his features hold a remarkably more primitive essence, allot more monkey-like. Though this may be due to the specific stills captured being effected by camera movement and quality degradation. Non the less the pictures are there for the community to inspect and decipher. I shall inspect them more closely in the process of my analysis of the Sin Creed plot line and draw my own opinions in due time.

On to other matters.

"2)I don't believe Eden is in Africa. I don't think thats Mt Kilimanjaro in the final image. I think it's Toba in Indonesia-Sumatra...which in Sanskrit translates to 'island of gold' which i could apply that's a reference to Eden or some of the pieces of eden that looked gold (remember there are at least 30 something pieces). It was referenced in the video when we learned about the solar flare. In real history it was hypothesized that there was an eruption from (volcano) Toba that almost ended mankind 70,000-75,000 years ago, leaving only 1,000 mating couples. Which fits the time frame. And in the beginning of the video they run past these vents, that are venting smoke and steam. So that makes me think at least that mountain is a volcano. Of course that video where you learn about the solar flare, it says that was not the case...but it was the spot, so it would be easy for humans researching the area to believe that a volcano caused the wipeout."

I can see how your process of reasoning has bought you to your conclusion. But please let me provide certain further evidence that supports my opinion, and in the process of my explanation i believe your opinion will change.

Firstly lets compare the visual likeness of Kilimanjaro and Toba with the mountain visible within the truth video:

Video Image:
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/7214/killimanjclose.jpg

Kilimanjaro:
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/240/realkillclose.jpg

Kilimanjaro:
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/1967/mkj2.jpg

Mount Toba:
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6673/toba.jpg

Mount Toba:
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/3074/tobareal2.jpg

Firstly note the 'flat top' Kilimanjaro has, the same flat top that can be seen in the reconstruction within the video. In comparison to Mount Toba which can be seen clearly in both images to have a 'peaked' ridge.
The length of the horizontal axis of the ridge on Mount Toba is measurably shorter than that of the length of the horizontal axis along the summit of Kilimanjaro, which itself holds a striking resemblance to the summit seen on the mountain in the video. Note the slight slope to the left with the left hand side of the mountain summit being slightly lower than that of the right.
Yes indeed the body of water surrounding Toba was caused by the eruption so i can't use it as evidence indicating diss-similarity between the video mountain and Toba, yet. Note the surrounding topology of Toba, it being considerably 'hilly' and greener and that there are smaller peaks around Toba closer to the summit than flat arid landscape, for example; indicating a lower altitude overall (as indicated by neither Toba nor any of the surrounding geography reaching a point of altitude where snow can form), with a condensed topology causing hilly 'peaked' geography surrounding Toba.
The top of mount Kilimanjaro can be seen to have a snowy summit and is not surrounded by topology similar in altitude to itself, it is a singular artifact in an otherwise flat expanse, something shared in the visual nature of the backdrop in the truth video, which does not have 'hilly' geography of a condensed nature, and which 'does' have the summit of the mount reaching a point of altitude where snow can form. Something also visible in the visual nature of the mountain in the truth video.

To continue:
"The last glacial period was preceded by 1000 years of the coldest temperatures of the Late Pleistocene, apparently caused by the eruption of the Mount Toba volcano. The six year long volcanic winter and 1000-year-long instant Ice Age that followed Mount Toba’s eruption may have decimated Modern Man’s entire population. Genetic evidence suggests that Human population size fell to about 10,000 adults between 50 and 100 thousand years ago. - http://mathildasanthropologybl...s.com/2008/03/15/92/ (http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/03/15/92/)"

Take note of the date mentioned when reading the next quote:

"There are various estimates given for when Mitochondrial Eve lived, ranging between 234,000 years ago and 82,000 years before present(BP), with the majority of estimates clustered between 200,000 and 160,000 BP - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve"

That leaves, at shortest, a 60,000 year gap between when our MRCA existed and the global catastrophe caused by the eruption of mount Toba. no one lives for 60,000 years, to further solidify this argument if the extinction level event occurred 60,000 years after our MRCA existed (which in the case of Assassins creed is Eve in the video), then various accounts of logic fall short of expressing that assumption as accurate. One of the main indicators is that it would be near impossible for enough of a specific genetic haplogroup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N_%28mtDNA%29) to survive that, by sheer coincidence, is the very same macro-haplogroup in which this Eve in question is the MRCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_recent_common_ancestor) of. Statistically, it is almost impossible.

"Of course that video where you learn about the solar flare, it says that was not the case...but it was the spot, so it would be easy for humans researching the area to believe that a volcano caused the wipeout."

A quick note: Volcanic eruptions deposit various elements found within earths 'makeup' within the envelope of a 'scattering' fashion with the point of eruption being the area of highest contamination.

A large solar flare hitting the earth would cause a considerably different blueprint of the disaster and would not consist of the specific deposited quanta an eruption would leave behind, it would leave evidence of high radiation exposure, as Solar flares are essentially "a burst of radiation across the electromagnetic spectrum, including from radio waves to x-rays and gamma rays. - http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMHKP7O0MD_index_0.html " This effects the physical matter of things on an atomic scale, altering the physical makeup of the object, (nuclear radiation, causing burning)

in short, the knock on effects of both disasters, allthough appearing to have a similar overall effect (that of mass extinction) would leave considerably different traces.
It is very unlikely the solar flare would have been 'mistaken' for a Volcanic eruption. Ergo it is very unlikely for scientists to 'confuse' the two.

In closing, i do think the mountain in the video is in fact Kilimanjaro, due to the various points of supporting evidence i have posed across my various posts on this thread.

a quick note for something you mentioned in your second question: There are at least 66 (not 33) Pieces of Eden: "ID Piece of Eden #66: The Shroud" See here for a complete list of the Pieces of Eden and connected information with such: http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Piece_of_Eden

"3) I don't think Desmond is a descendant of Adam or Eve. The video first looks like you're following one of them, but Adam and Eve keep looking back...because they're being chased. All the movements come from 1st person of the the person chasing them i think. It's confusing, because parts of it make me think it's 3 people escaping, but Eve and Adam seemed shock when her name is called...by Desmond's voice it seems. not to mention Subject 16 is the one who made the video, so he has access to it and hid it."

Because Adam and Eve are looking back does not necessarily mean they are being chased. other people have stated the point that the Animus is from a third person perspective. to further solidify the point they are not being chased, the image at the end where they are both on the roof is clearly seen as consisting of only those two:

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3130/buildingtopcloseup.jpg

There are also several 'movement artifacts' in the nature of how the camera is moving 'between' both Adam and Eve, the most noticeable is where the camera pans 'round' the back of Adams head.

To me, it is logical to presume, due to these points, that there is only Adam and Eve running in the video.
Subject 16 has access to the video because it is a genetic memory, encoded in his DNA.

"3) The problem with 16. In collecting the Truth videos, you can hear him progressively get crazy. there's even instances where he's seemingly jumping periods of time, perspective to perspective, within seconds. He even described being in a theatre and shooting someone (Lincoln I assume), but then jumping to a nice calming scene. Its hard to think that 16 has that many assassin ancestors that hes seemingly in every major period. It could be that he's somehow fused with memories already recorded in the animus from other subjects, which made him mad."

Subject 16 went crazy due to excessive 'bleeding' from over use of the Animus, this caused him to experience genetic memory without being hooked up to the Animus. At the points he is placing the encoded files into the Animus he is 'not' plugged in to it, and the things he is experiencing are due to the 'bleeding' so the things he is experiencing are his own genetic memories and cannot be memories already fused into the Animus through other peoples use. To further establish this point, if there were other people with specific memories that significant to the pieces of eden through history, those specific people would make some form of appearance or have some kind of mention in the story line. As there is currently only Desmond and subject 16, we can presume, due to this and certain other points raised, that the memories, including the truth video, is indeed subject 16's own memory.

"5)Catscan. That spot in the brain that no other being has, I think wasn't originally there. Minerva said they made the humans better,(and that they are not Gods) so they couldn't die out they would last. that spot seems to be where a kind of master switch that can unlock ones full potential. I.e. jumping, climbing, fighting, the ability to learn and adapt."

If this was the case then everyone one earth would have these 'powers', whereas it is quite established that these powers are as far as can be told, unique to the Altair/Ezio/Desmond blood line. Various theories as to why this is have been thought up. The most popular being that specific blood line being 'half human, half proto-being/God).
The spot in the brain that no other being has is referring to the neuro-transmitter found in humans that reacts to the Pieces of Eden. This has already been established and does not refer to a 'switch' that unlocks latent potential, which is mentioned nowhere.


I hope this has made things clearer to you.

Thanks for reading, Xios.

Xios1986
12-26-2009, 02:08 PM
in reply to mikini:

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Glyphs

glyph info, you can find the deciphered messages on here.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mikeh1294
12-26-2009, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Xios1986:
in reply to mikini:

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Glyphs

glyph info, you can find the deciphered messages on here.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks for this, just read through it quickly now.

I think I might start a new game and get all the unlock codes, and maybe work out what all the pictures in the backgrounds of the ciphers are, etc.

Anyone care to help me?

Xios1986
12-26-2009, 04:07 PM
im doing something similar. I'll send you my findings so far, allthough its quite mixed up, im just going through the truth puzzles.

infact i'll post up the file here. its a bit of a mess and unfinished but u can use it as a start.

Glyph 1

Rebecca: "Wait, thats not possible, it can't be, hold on, thats computer code! Let me compile it, oh **** its an encrypted file."
Other dude: "upload it to my computer, I'm a master at decryption"
Rebecca: i can't its only compatible with the Animus itself"
Other dude: "upload it to Desmond then, i can't believe this!"

the glyph then 'activates'. What does this mean? Its possible that the glyphs represent 'packages' subject 16 left behind, that are embedded into the memory data of subject 16s sessions in the animus, that they are 'seperate' from the programme, as Rebbeca had to 'upload it' to desmond for it to be 'active' in the Animus. (think of the glyphs like a 'linked zip file' within the animus program archives that subject 16 placed in there when 'hacking' the animus.

after activation:

Subject 16: "Hello, er...gh... this is..., they call me 'subject 16' (why did he choose not to give out his name?) Listen, i don't have much time, theres something i have to show you. We have been lied to this whole time, everything we know, everything we've been bought up to believe... its wrong. ... *pause*... Ok erm, I've Uploaded the evidence, th... th... the, file, that proves it all. But i've split it into 20 pieces, and locked each, with a code. haha, can't be to careful. Queen Izabella, n..no, not her, er... ah, ghh, what century is it?.... ghhhhh... n..n..nevermind. I've hidden the code to the first file, inside this programme. Find it, find them all! And along the way, you'll begin to see the truth."

Annoying dude: "what the heck!? how did this get inside our Animus"
Sin chick: "oh, OH! The memory core. We transfered 16s memory data from obstergo into the Animus 2.0. He must have hacked the machine when Vi**** left him alone between sessions.

Desmond: Hold on, hang on a second, The signs on the wall in Abstergo, the ones written in blood... those were clues! He was telling us to look for them inside the Animus!"

Glyph name: "In the beggining"

the 5 paintings with an apple in them are the ones that unlock the file. (apple - PoE?)

Once done, the 'apple' is shown, but a PoE number is not given.
---------------------

Glyph 2

Subject 16: "the past: a vast web of connections and interconnections, all ruled by chance. Or is it?

Glyph name: 64 squares (this is a term used when describing a chess board)

pic 1: Queen Elizabeth 1 of England, 1559. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_I_of_England - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...of_England#Accession (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_I_of_England#Accession))
Shown holding PoE (apple)
ID: PIECE OF EDEN 2 - APPLE (the APPLE IS PIECE OF EDEN 2)

Pic 2: Emperor Napoleon 1 of france 1812. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_I_of_France - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...e#Invasion_of_Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_I_of_France#Invasion_of_Russia))

shown hiding PoE (apple) under jacket.
ID: PIECE OF EDEN 1 - APPLE (there is more than one PoE that resembles an apple!)
pieces of Eden 1 and 2 both look identical.

Pic 3: George washington, United States, 1781. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...#American_Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington#American_Revolution) - "Washington also requested that Gano baptize him as recorded in The Kentucky State Historical Society register. Virginia Baptists, who were witnesses, state that the baptism was in 1780 or 1781." - "Washington delivered the final blow to the British in 1781, after a French naval victory allowed American and French forces to trap a British army in Virginia. The surrender at Yorktown on October 17, 1781, marked the end of most fighting. "

Shown hiding a Piece of Eden under jacket.
ID: PIECE OF EDEN 3 - APPLE (PoE's 1,2 and 3 all look identical - 'apple')

---------------------

Glyph 3

Subject 16: "power doesn't die, its passed on". - indicating the pieces of Eden are passed on to other significant people after the original owners (dimise?)

Glyph name: "Descendants"

Pic 1: Franklin Delando Roosevelt Strategic meeting, 1944.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt)

Quote at top of page: "He carried it with him, find his inheritance." - this possibly accounts for all three images as the second two don't have one.

Infrared scan reveals 'Piece of Eden number 3' hidden inside what appears to be an open briefcase (his?) (PoE 3 was owned by George washington before roosevalt)

Pigpen cipher on the photo of Roosevelt reads "The Masons brought it across the sea. George Washington passed it on". George Washington was a member of the Masons, along with a number of the founding fathers, who supposedly they were the Knights Templar reborn.

PIC 2: Houdini beggining the chinese water torture Cell escape, 1913 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Houdini - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...e_Water_Torture_Cell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Houdini#The_Chinese_Water_Torture_Cell))

no quote at the top.

Infrared scan reveals "piece of Eden 1" located just inside the top lip of the water torture cage. (Napoleon owned PoE 1 before Houdini)

Morse code on the photo of Houdini reads "They hit him in the stomach". This is reference to the fact that after he was hit in the stomach for a trick, he died of a ruptured appendix.

PIC 3: Gandhi During the Salt march, 1930 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohandas_Karamchand_Gandhi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...aha_.28Salt_March.29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohandas_Karamchand_Gandhi#Salt_Satyagraha_.28Salt _March.29) - http://www.thenagain.info/webc...india/SaltMarch.html (http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/india/SaltMarch.html))

Infrared scan reveals "piece of Eden 2" hidden under Gandhi's robe, beneath his right arm. (Queen elizabeth 1 owned PoE 2 before Ghandi)

Morse code on the photo of Gandhi reads "The bullet hit him in the chest".
---------------------

Glyph 4

Subject 16: It's getting easier and easier to hack into abstergo's mainframe. Its like i know what data I'm looking for. Like I've already lived it."

Glyph name: "Infinite Knowledge"

first picture:
Burning Viet cong base camp, my tho, Vietnam, 1968 - info of picture "My Tho, Vietnam. A Viet Cong base camp being burned. In the foreground is Private First Class Raymond Rumpa, St Paul, Minnesota, C Company, 3rd Battalion, 47th Infantry, 9th Infantry Division, with 45-pound 90mm recoiless rifle. 04/05/1968 Photograph Courtesy of the National Archives & Records Administration" - http://militaryhistory.about.c...ar-Images/My-Tho.htm (http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/vietnamwar/ig/Vietnam-War-Images/My-Tho.htm))

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tet_Offensive)

(Finally, in the I Corps area on 12 February 1968, Battery C, 1st Battalion, 40th Artillery (105-mm), while in support of a South Vietnamese unit, became the first US Army artillery unit to fire improved conventional munitions in combat. The target was 40 to 50 North Vietnamese troops in the open. The battery fired 54 rounds of the new ammunition, resulting in 14 enemy killed. - http://www.thefreelibrary.com/...ive+1968-a0145698938 (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+Tet+Offensive+1968-a0145698938))

Quote on picture: "Its open mouth Delivers the Kiss of death" - implying the flames that would emit from the 'open mouth' of the flame thrower Raymond is holding in the picture.

Second picture:
Members of the second Infantry division Advance under Machine gun fire into the outskirts of breast france 1944. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Normandy)

"(7 June 1944). The 15th FA Bn fought for 73 straight days in support of the 2nd Infantry Division throughout Normandy without a break. Their first break in the combat action came on 19 August 1944, when the 15th FA Bn was ordered to move 220 miles and occupy firing positions for the battle against the German fortress at Brest, France. The battle that ensued was bloody and hard fought by all elements of the 2nd Infantry Division including the 15th FA Bn. On 26 September 1944, five officers and 42 enlisted men of the 15th FA Bn were presented Bronze Star Medals, by the Division Commander, for their actions since D Day +1" - http://www.2id.korea.army.mil/...n/units/1hbct/1-5fa/ (http://www.2id.korea.army.mil/organization/units/1hbct/1-5fa/)

Quote above image: "leading the YOUNG to their end." implying the guns they are holding are leading them to their end.

Hexadecimal cipher on the photo at Brest reads "Antikythera Mechanism, much older than 150 B.C.E." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

Third Picture:
Union Troops in formation, beaufort, South Carolina, 1862 - pic info: photograph of the 50th Pennsylvania Infantry in parade formation at Beaufort, South Carolina; taken in February, 1862. (http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/h?pp/PPALL:@field%28NUMBER+@band%28cwpb+00741%29%29)

("...President Lincoln's calls for Volunteers for the Union army, recruits, drafted men, substitutes, and recruits for the regular U. S. Army for a total of 362,284 men. Adding the 25,000 Pennsylvania militia men who were called out in 1862..." - http://www.pa-roots.com/pacw/index.html)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War)

Quote at top of image: "The flames from its throat poke out their eyes"

The right part to select is the 'mouths' of the guns pointed upward, held by the soldiers in the parade formation.

Caesar number cipher on the photo at the US civil war reads "Ancient city, Rajastan, Inda, irradiated by PoE". - http://www.bibliotecapleyades....ncient_atomic_3d.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_ancient_atomic_3d.htm) - http://www.rense.com/general3/8000.htm

Fourth picture:
The first pictorial representation of a gun. 900.

Quote in image: "This MONSTER did not come from man."
the picture is of Buddha, with various images to his right, one of which is holding a 'flaming ball' which is the trigger to pass the puzzle. This is the first representation of a gun - see Sumerian ME wiki page, weapon deffinition.

ID: PIECE OF EDEN NUMBER 4 - APPLE ( the fourth piece of eden is also another of the 'apple' type. Piece of eden 4 is also Sumerian ME 23? the concept of weaponry?)

Binary code reads "Sumerian. Me 23.". - (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_%28mythology%29) - "Sumerian Me 23 refers to a set of attributes assigned to humanity by the Gods. Its pretty long, has about 100, and they can be as abstract as an emotion, or a thing, like "art".

However, they took the FORM of an object, so rather than a list, there are actual objects that the Gods granted to humanity to represent traits or capabilities. Me #23 is "Weapons". This is relevant, because it is in the Puzzle that is about weapons and their destructive abilities. Also, if this Me took the form of a concrete item, it might have been a powerful weapon in its own right . . . or a Piece of Eden."
---------------------

Glyph 5

ID: PIECE OF EDEN NUMBER 25, SWORD

ID: PIECE OF EDEN 34, STAFF
---------------------

Glyph 6
---------------------

Glyph 7
---------------------

Glyph 8
---------------------

Glyph 9
---------------------

Glyph 10. (has file)

Subject 16: "3 thefts, hidden by the murders, people only see what they'r trained to see. What the organization wants them to see."

puzzle/glyph Name - Hat Trick.
first bit.
Quote at top, "they made it look like an accident".
Target reticule looks like the 'Gnostic Templar' symbol
First pic, houidini and his wife Bess, 1915.
PoE (Apple) seen on heart when target is over it, goes to 'flatline' sound, next pic his grave. October 31, 1926 (halloween!)
possible meaning: the Templars killed Houdini to get the PoE he used to make ppl believe he could do all he did in life. (tricks e.t.c.)

Second Bit.
Quote at top: "he almost BEAT them".
Pic of Ghandi "1946"
Gnostic Templar target reticule when over Ghandi's heart makes heart beat sound and shows PoE (apple) also (same as houdini pic) - goes to flat line sound when clicked.
Next pic, ghandi's Funeral Procession, jan 30th, 1948.

next bit "Dallas Archive" File locked*
Sub 16: "the wolves are out hunting. Where, oh where, has Jack gone? (Jack Ruby - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ruby) (Jack was made to do it, conspiracy.)

Unlocked*
File reads:

Dallas TN
Operation: New Frontier.

HQ has given the go-ahead to extract the resource. (get the Piece of Eden) Negotiations are over. (negotiations?) F. (John F Kennedy) is planning to give the vote to everyone, Reason just doesn't work with someone like that.
I'll Send you the driver, We've trained him with PE2 (which one is that?) in our labs, he shouldn't be any trouble. (what do they mean by 'trained?', brainwashed? or trained him to use it?)
The motorcade route is marked below. Once the target has been downed, Either by Ozwald or Z (who is Z?), use PE1 to sage a distraction. Make some kind of phantom appear around the slope i've marked with an X (grassy null?). Freak people out. The driver (of F's car) will grab PE3 in the confusion."

symbol at the bottom is the Gnostic templar symbol with "I.H.S.V." in place of the usual "S.P.Q.R."
I.H.S.V. stands for - "In hoc signo vinces", translation: "with this sign you shall conquer".

The symbol at the bottom is probably their 'stamp'.

Pic at bottom is the "DEALEY PLAZA - DALLAS, TEXAS" with "1,8,9,1,6" across buildings and an X on the grassy null.

18916 is the code to unlock film section.
----------------------------

Glyph 11
----------------------------

Glyph 12
----------------------------

Glyph 13
----------------------------

Glyph 14
----------------------------

Glyph 15
----------------------------

Glyph 16
----------------------------

Glyph 17
----------------------------

Glyph 18
----------------------------

Glyph 19
----------------------------

Glyph 20

ArD117
12-26-2009, 04:27 PM
Nice readings, guys, really nice.

I'd like to bring up the point by mh.dichter. He points out that Subject 16, at one point, lived the assassination of Lincoln by John Wilkes Booth. Does this mean that Subject 16, and therefore Desmond, is related to all of these assassins? I think so.

Because keep in mind, these awesome "half breed" assassin's we keep talking about couldn't breed with other demi-gods. No, rather they breeded with normal humans. This leads to the inescapable conclusion that yes, Subject 16 and Desmond are related to some mad assassins. Nevertheless, they were still assassins.

I think what drove Subject 16 insane was his realization that the history of his ancestors was far more complicated than first thought. And this goes for all of us. No one in this forum is related to a singular people, like the Germans or Japanese. We all come from several cultures.

The same goes for Desmond.

Another point is that Minerva is not nice. She isn't. Her people created beings just for slaves, and that's all. I don't really find any forgiveness for what humanity did, because we just wanted to be free. For, when you think about it, this was all the Precursor's fault. What did they think would happen if they created advanced beings?

mikeh1294
12-26-2009, 04:47 PM
Xios, that's a bloody good read mate. Good work, I'll help when I can.


Subject 16: It's getting easier and easier to hack into abstergo's mainframe. Its like i know what data I'm looking for. Like I've already lived it."

The bolded bit... it seems to suggest to me something. That someone is using Subject 16 (via an Animus?) to make him create the video and leave the clues. Maybe a former employee? Something to think about...


I'll Send you the driver, We've trained him with PE2 (which one is that?) in our labs, he shouldn't be any trouble. (what do they mean by 'trained?', brainwashed? or trained him to use it?)

PE2 is the Apple that the Queen had. And the wording seems to me that he was brainwashed into performing, but he cold have been trained how to use it, and made everyone think that he was hot or something?

Xios1986
12-26-2009, 05:16 PM
i like your point about what subject 16 says, yet i don't think the Animus is able to 'effect' the character being observed in history, as it is essentially an artifical reconstruction within the animus programme of the subjects genetic memories, not the actual time in history itself.

Great theory though! the implications, if it fit, are immense! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Curiosa94
12-26-2009, 06:25 PM
Xios, you have got some really interesting theories, have been stuck reading it for hours! You begin to wonder if it really true, it all fits in so well with the history books. Nice to have someone think hard and dig deep instead of just complaining about too few dyes in the game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif Keep that brain working Mr/Ms! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Brett_Master5
12-26-2009, 07:10 PM
First of all the reason it's called The Truth video is because it is the truth of what has gone on throughout history.

The glyph entitled Bloodlines with the mating of Gods and Humans clearly infers that there are three distinct races on Earth. First of all are the Gods/Proto-beings/Those who came before. Second are humans created through the Pieces of Eden from Apes. Lastly we have the Assassins who were created from the Gods/PB/TWCB and humans, whether by force or lust.

This cross-breeding gave the assassins their special abilities, such as eagle vision, superior movement, faster ability to absorb information quicker (not just combat as noted by Ezio's grandfather after he infiltrated the Florentine court), and resistance to the Pieces of Eden.

The Assasins however consist of two groups. The first are the regular humans, and of course the Assassin bloodline. Of which, Adam, Eve, 16, Altair, Ezio (and his family), and Desmond are a part of.

The Adam and Eve video was taken from 16's memory. It's not a chase seen. If it were then, who's chasing Ezio and Altair the whole time those memories take place. All of the glyphs and the video have nothing to do with Desmond as they are all taken from 16's memory.

Also, it's NOT certain that Adam and Eve are even directly related to Desmond. There are hints that there were plenty of others like them. Perseus, Hercules, Archilles etc are examples of other Half-HUman/Half God beings.

That's all I have for now.

Assassin_M
12-27-2009, 02:53 AM
The Most interesting part of The Assassins Creed Universe is the Existence of an Ancient Civilization that dwelled on our Planet almost a 1000000 Years ago we, as the players, do not have a specified Date of when they actually Existed but it is Spectulated that they lived since Adam and Eve`s Time, But Exactly when is Unbeknownst to Us.
This Civilization doesnt seem of a different race than Humans Infact they are also humans but more Advanced Intellectually and Superior to Us in every way, and we, Humans, were made to be Inferior to them so that the humans may be eligable to be Controlled by the effects of the Various Pieces of Eden While also benefiting from the Chemical found in Our brains which makes it easier for the Pieces of Eden to take Control.
The Ancient Civilization is first introduced as the Creators of the Pieces of Eden, At that Point nothing Concrete is known about them Except This, Later we find out the Purpose of creating the Pieces of Eden and how it all Ended the way it is.
The Ancient People Created Us as a slave race, Self Expression was not a Nessecity for Us, But Somehow two Humans Rebelled and stole a Piece of Eden, The Apple, Furious at the Betrayal the Ancient People waged War against the Humans as Retribution, Craving war the Ancient People fell Apart due to the Humans` vast Number Superiority Though the Ancients had Unrivaled Advancements in Weaponry and art of War Yet this was not the case as Neither came out Victorious, a Solar Flare ate Everything, Both Civilizations Succumbed But we Overcame the Disaster as we were built to Survive and we tended to our Wounds and Loses so did the Ancients but they Eventually died out as We Prospered, My theory is that the Ones who Came Before are Actually the Mythical Gods of the Romans, Egyptians, Greeks Etc ... as when Inside the Vault when Minerva Explains the Tragedy that befell her People we see an Image of a Supposed Horus holding a Piece of Eden to Control the People and we find out that every Roman God was Actually One of the Ancients and Ironiclly Our Protagonist <SPOILERS> Ezio <End of SPOILER> (LOL Couldnt resist) is Italian and Inside the Vault, which is one of the temples Minerva spoke of, was Minerva a Roman Goddess also she Mentioned other Gods Ie: Jupiter.
My Point is that the vault is a temple in Roma the capital of the Romans contains a Message from a Roman Goddess then Perhaps the Other Temples are in Their Respective Countries Such as: A Temple in Egypt where a Message by An Egyptian God is Concieved.
Now to the Part of how they came to be thought of as Gods, The Ancients Built Statues Depicting themselves and these statues survived over time while Every Knowledge about the Ancients Began to Dwindle the humans found no one to call "God" But these Statues as over the many years Humans actually Worshipped Statues Since the time of Jesus Possibly Before, and a more Current Example is Buddihsm ( No Discrimination Intended )

mikeh1294
12-27-2009, 04:41 AM
@Assassin_M, as I said before to you, Minerva wasn't just a Roman god, she was a god in many different religions, that is why she tells you 3 different names for her, so your theory at the end doesn't work


I had a theory last night, just before I fell asleep :P One of the glyphs has a bit about Cain and Able, doesn't it? Well, maybe two Gods fought and fell out, and one created the advanced humans (Read: Assassins)?

Or two Assassins argued over what to do with the remaining pieces of Eden that were left when the Gods were no more, and thus the Templars were born?

Also, about there being more than one Piece of Eden shaped like an apple. In the Bible, it says Adam and Eve ate the Forbidden Fruit from the Tree of Knowladge, using this, do you think that there actually was tree, and the Gods grew the PEs? Just a wild thought.

And the Staff, PE 34 if I am not mistaken,

mikeh1294
12-27-2009, 04:42 AM
@Assassin_M, as I said before to you, Minerva wasn't just a Roman god, she was a god in many different religions, that is why she tells you 3 different names for her, so your theory at the end doesn't work


I had a theory last night, just before I fell asleep :P One of the glyphs has a bit about Cain and Able, doesn't it? Well, maybe two Gods fought and fell out, and one created the advanced humans (Read: Assassins)?

Or two Assassins argued over what to do with the remaining pieces of Eden that were left when the Gods were no more, and thus the Templars were born?

Also, about there being more than one Piece of Eden shaped like an apple. In the Bible, it says Adam and Eve ate the Forbidden Fruit from the Tree of Knowladge, using this, do you think that there actually was tree, and the Gods grew the PEs? Just a wild thought.

And the Pope's Staff, PE 34 if I am not mistaken, is different nowadays than it is shown in the Glyphs and game, meaning that a PE has switched hands one again.

OniLinkSword
12-27-2009, 01:19 PM
I don't know if this helps, but the Genesis story may directly hold clues. For example, the snake may of been a proto-being that knew what they were doing was wrong and opened Eve's mind using the PoE (apple). Maybe he was called a snake because his punishment was to have all his limbs cut off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Danteire
12-27-2009, 06:18 PM
Hrm good idea, I think there is a lot more to the Eden bible story than given out in AC2. The "eating of the Apple" from the tree is OUR interpretation of the events, I doubt they "grew" them, more was only a way to explain it from a unenlightened minds view.

The whole snake bit, maybe not for the whole limb chopping punishment, but maybe the proto-humans themed their outfits or class status around animals on earth. Pagan religions worshipped deities with goats heads (hence why the devil in Christian religion is a satyr, to demonize the old ways and make Christianity the only way to salvation), Egyptian gods were meant to have the heads of animals or at least were symbols of them (Ra=falcon, Anubis=jackal etc).


People in the Animus dont neccesarily inhabit the body fully, more the area around it, probably very close to the view you play in. Remember, these are Ezios memories, not a carbon copy of events, Desmond is more an observer of all of Ezios senses reconstructing the world as he experienced it, hard to explain. Also, Minerva looks over Ezios shoulder as she addresses Desmond, while Ezio looks over asking "Who are you talking to?", so Desmond observes from a distance. So it was possible to see Adams face in The Truth, since it was not viewed from Adams own eyes but more in third person.

Adam & Eve are Desmonds/Ezios/Altairs precursors, the Animus recreates GENETIC memory, so they have to share some of the genome of Adam&Eve for Desmond to have their memories locked within his DNA.

As for Subject 16's identity, could be anyone remotely related to Desmond, maybe even not closely. Just look at your own family trees, they branch out quite a lot even going back 3 generations (my mother does a lot of Geneology). 1500 AD-> 2012 AD could be almost 15 genertaions, so about 8192 people in 1500 AD donated to Desmonds bloodline (with each generation multiplying by 2 so Desmond->2 parents->4 grandparents->8 great-grandparents->16 great-great-grandparents and so on), assuming there was no inbreeding. But I bet Desmond knows him (we dont hear much about "The farm" where Desmond was raised, just that he left at 16) and his identity will play an important part in AC3.

Thats all for now, keep up the great discussion guys. Loving the depth behind AC2.

GolSkii
12-27-2009, 07:43 PM
i was wondering something after reading all of this. if subject 16 is related some how to desmond, could ezio older brother who of course died just like subject 16 has died? i mean if there were a family of assassins and his brother could also jump just like ezio. this is just a theory that i was thinking about. now if they could be related maybe it was a cousin or brother since he hasn't mention anything about a brother nor have they asked yet. something thats going through my mind since subject 16 is dead just like ezio's brother was killed.

Bampire
12-27-2009, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by golem22:
i was wondering something after reading all of this. if subject 16 is related some how to desmond, could ezio older brother who of course died just like subject 16 has died? i mean if there were a family of assassins and his brother could also jump just like ezio. this is just a theory that i was thinking about. now if they could be related maybe it was a cousin or brother since he hasn't mention anything about a brother nor have they asked yet. something thats going through my mind since subject 16 is dead just like ezio's brother was killed.

Altair never had a sibling though. There's also nothing known about the elder brother of Ezio. Though it's a good thought.

I personally doubt Subject 16 is related that way, but related some other way would make more sense.

Xios1986
12-28-2009, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by Danteire:
Hrm good idea, I think there is a lot more to the Eden bible story than given out in AC2. The "eating of the Apple" from the tree is OUR interpretation of the events, I doubt they "grew" them, more was only a way to explain it from a unenlightened minds view.

The whole snake bit, maybe not for the whole limb chopping punishment, but maybe the proto-humans themed their outfits or class status around animals on earth. Pagan religions worshipped deities with goats heads (hence why the devil in Christian religion is a satyr, to demonize the old ways and make Christianity the only way to salvation), Egyptian gods were meant to have the heads of animals or at least were symbols of them (Ra=falcon, Anubis=jackal etc).


People in the Animus dont neccesarily inhabit the body fully, more the area around it, probably very close to the view you play in. Remember, these are Ezios memories, not a carbon copy of events, Desmond is more an observer of all of Ezios senses reconstructing the world as he experienced it, hard to explain. Also, Minerva looks over Ezios shoulder as she addresses Desmond, while Ezio looks over asking "Who are you talking to?", so Desmond observes from a distance. So it was possible to see Adams face in The Truth, since it was not viewed from Adams own eyes but more in third person.

Adam & Eve are Desmonds/Ezios/Altairs precursors, the Animus recreates GENETIC memory, so they have to share some of the genome of Adam&Eve for Desmond to have their memories locked within his DNA.

As for Subject 16's identity, could be anyone remotely related to Desmond, maybe even not closely. Just look at your own family trees, they branch out quite a lot even going back 3 generations (my mother does a lot of Geneology). 1500 AD-> 2012 AD could be almost 15 genertaions, so about 8192 people in 1500 AD donated to Desmonds bloodline (with each generation multiplying by 2 so Desmond->2 parents->4 grandparents->8 great-grandparents->16 great-great-grandparents and so on), assuming there was no inbreeding. But I bet Desmond knows him (we dont hear much about "The farm" where Desmond was raised, just that he left at 16) and his identity will play an important part in AC3.

Thats all for now, keep up the great discussion guys. Loving the depth behind AC2.

wicked post.

I'll get back more on this soon, busy for the next week or so. keep the thread goin guys n galls!

squall20202
12-28-2009, 11:13 AM
This whole thing is pretty much a spoiler, kind of like this conversation :P , so be warned

Just a thought, if the Animus is able to show the memories of one's ancestors hidden in one's DNA, and seeing that 16 and Desmond are descendants of Ezio -> Altair -> and therefore Adam and Eve, and since Adam and Eve are part human and part those who came before, can't, theoretically, Desmond use the animus to see the memories of the TWCB that he is descended from?

If that is true then 16 could have known how to hack into the animus from the memories if TWCB since the animus was originally their tech that the templars recreated.

Its not that far of a stretch since 16 wold have known the truth before making the message. therefore he must have accessed the memory of Adam and Eve. (if anything, just to make that vid.)

Also, realizing the truth, he could have used the animus to access the memory of TWCB at some point. Perhaps that is what finally drove him crazy to begin with, since the minds of TWCB were so advanced, his mind could not tolerate it.

Also, I originally thought that the templars, or at least those who were truly in charge, could also be descendants of Adam and Eve. But if that were true, then why potentially give your enemy (the assassins) the power of their ancestors and therefore giving them strength, when that can just go in to the animus themselves. Also, since they could not open the volt, the way that Ezio did, and don't have a prophet, then they have to be regular humans, and not descendants of Adam and Eve.

Another point, Minerva mentioned that the vaults were created after the disaster by a joint effort of some of the TWCB that were left and some of the humans that were left. I think that the other humans were still in a war with TWCB and were the ancestors of the power hungry templars. While the ancestors of the assassins like Adam and Eve helped built the vaults. So perhaps only assassins can open the vaults.

Finally, wouldn't it make sense that only the assassins can bring out the true power or close to the true power if the pieces of eden since they are part THCB and the POE were meant to be used by TWCB and not humans (like the templars)?

what do you think?

squall20202
12-28-2009, 11:36 AM
ooh, I forgot to mention, about the point of the assassins being the ones who helped build the vaults and the proto-templars at still at war with the THCB.

It makes sense since the templars are those of the cross, therefore, first the Jews and later the Christians (no offense intended to ether), that fought to get rid of the old gods of the Romans and of the other religions that were the THCB who were thought of as gods by humans.

This would explain the warning from Minerva to watch out for those from the cross.

Millhouse3rd
12-28-2009, 12:39 PM
Beware of the cross. You guys remmember that? Minerva said it if I'm not mistaken, so I believe the templars were born from the rebelious humans, and the assassins were the demi-gods tasked by the gods with protecting the artifacts.

P459
12-28-2009, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Millhouse3rd:
Beware of the cross. You guys remmember that? Minerva said it if I'm not mistaken, so I believe the templars were born from the rebelious humans, and the assassins were the demi-gods tasked by the gods with protecting the artifacts.

In one of the glyphs it says: "Beware the mark of Caine" or something and then there is a cross. Is that what your talking about?
I think 16 meant that Cain was the first Templar.

BMAN2206
12-28-2009, 07:56 PM
There is one thing you all are not getting.If these supreme beings are gods "or" alien like creatures believed to be gods

squall20202
12-28-2009, 09:05 PM
No, not gods or aliens, they are actually the original inhabitants of earth. Or you can say the true humans. They created our human species as slaves. You can think of it this way, we are humans, we make robots to do things we don't want to do aka slaves. We humans have power over the robot, to control every aspect of its "life" through programing. Its the same relationship, only that TWCB are the humans and we are the robots, or rather bio-robots since we were made from living tissue.

They literally made us, like a matrix type thing. They probably made other animals to do other things. Since they made us in their image, like an android or bio android, we are compatible in the intimate reproductive way (think of it as prostitute robots, lol), eventually, one of the creators found their robot attractive and had Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve were part TWCB (or true human), and part us type human (or bio-android), they were able to override the programing or pieces of eden.
Then allot of things happened, including a solar disaster which killed most of us and most of them. We "robots" were able to "build more" since we were made to survive, but TWCB were not.

Yet, they were still more advanced, naturally lived longer than us, and apparently knew, to some extent, the future; since obviously Minerva knew that Ezio would find the vault and that Desmond would be in the animus and experiencing everything Ezio was. So naturally, we began to think of them as gods.

For example, if you went back to Ezio's time with the knowledge and tech of today, knowing exactly what was to happen, the people would think you were a god.

This also means that there was nothing wrong with them controlling us using the pieces of eden since we were their robots. Would you give any kind of rights to a mechanical arm in a car factory? Would you really thing twice if your boss told you to destroy it because its his and he wants you to? their is no ethical problem there. But once we became "alive" the way Adam and Eve did, by surpassing your programing, do ethics come into play. But Adam and Eve had sympathy for us lesser creatures, for us robots, they decided to free us from our programing, the POE, too.

But if you bring back the POE, we become robots again due to the neural-transmitters which the POE uses to control us. Only the assassins (decedents of Adam and Eve) would be "alive", since they can resist the POE's effects.

Now, what was the original point? Do you remember? Ooh, yeah, it was that TWCB are not aliens or gods, just the original humans of Earth and we lesser beings, we robots that they created, randomly began calling them gods.

Simpsonia
12-28-2009, 09:22 PM
Ok, here is my take. This obviously builds off of the conjecture of others, but adds more. I would like to add a bit of the religious side here as well, just to put things in perspective.

In the beginning, there were the Those Who Came Before (TWCB). They existed and evolved much like how we believed we did. However, as per what Minerva said, their species did not breed quite as prodigiously as Homo Sapiens. They needed labour and engineered Homo Sapiens (In their image, ala Genesis.) However, they modified us. They added the neurotransmitters to keep us obedient.

Original Sin
There came a time when one of the TWCB, fell (Lucifer). He became an enemy of TWCB, but he remained alive. He tempted or forced Eve to touch PE1 the Apple. By touching (eating) the apple she became aware of good and evil. This became the "Original Sin." As a result, of the original sin, Eve became aware of and immune to the control of the other pieces of Eden. She convinced Adam to touch (eat) the apple and so to be free. Also in traditional Christianity, humans became much more lustful after original sin(leading to our much more potent breeding).

Cast Out of the Garden
It seems that Adam and Eve were not caught and killed by TWCB. They were only expelled (mirroring Genesis.) However they bred fast. They had two sons initially. Cain and Abel. Abel was the apple of his father's eye. He inherited PE1 (the apple). However, Cain was jealous and killed Abel and took the PE1. This was the birth of the Templar Creed. Remember that these Creeds existed before any of the organizations ever did. The creed to take what you want by force to gain power. Cain took the apple and used it to control the other humans, I'm guessing his brothers and sisters if all humans must be descended from Adam and Eve. He initially started the war with his control against TWCB to obtain more pieces of Eden. Since humans bred much more prodigiously, they had a massive numbers advantage.

I must also note that I also believe that Adam and Eve were the mitochondrial ancestors of all current living humans.

The War and the Flood
The war lasted a long time, with the humans slowly winning a battle of attrition. However, war blinded both sides to the impending disaster of the solar flare. Now most cultures have a myth of a giant flood that wiped out most of humanity. This could have been a side effect of the flare's effect on Earth. Whatever happened, only 8 TWCB remained after the disaster. These 8 were: Minerva, Jupiter, Pluto, Neptune, Diana, Apollo, Mars, and Venus (the 8 statuettes.)

Side note: This could also be a point where all other humans not related to Adam and Eve were destroyed. Maybe the true Noah (and family) were descendants of Adam and Eve, while all others perished.

Rebuilding After the Flood
After the flood, humans lost their technology. It was here that the 8 TWCB guided the humans as gods. However, the Templar creed still existed in humanity due to the greed of Cain living on in them. Eventually humans found the some of the long lost pieces of Eden and used them to control other humans.

It was at this point that the 8 remaining TWCB knew they had to take action. They bred with some humans to create the hybrids. They taught these hybrids and instilled in them what was right, the Assassin's Creed. So, assassin hybrids are descendents of both Minerva (or one of the other 8) and Adam and Eve.

The next Flood
The 8 remaining TWCB knew that another great disaster (flare) would come, and sealed away in each of their tombs a piece of knowledge to prevent it. The locations of their tombs are already known to us. There are exactly 8 assassin symbols located on the map hidden on the codex pages.

Questions that Remain and Miscellaneous
Really all that remains is how the next game is going to revolve around Desmond globe-trotting to each of the 8 temples to retrieve whatever it was that the 8 TWCB left behind to prevent the disaster.

Further, the hybrids between TWCB and humans obviously have abilities, such as heightened learning, physical abilities, perception (Eagle Vision), and I also believe Genetic Memory. I believe they also inherited one of TWCB flaws in that they did not breed quite as well as humans. This would explain why the Ezio's and Altair's are so rare in human history. It would also serve to keep their bloodline more potent. This would explain why Desmond as an actual heir to a TWCB bloodline is so damned important to the Templars. There are only 16 other known heirs to TWCB blood, and they are either completely insane or dead.

One of the biggest questions I still have is whether Desmond is actually related to Ezio, and whether Ezio is actually related to Altair. Desmond is surely related to Altair, and 16 is surely related to Ezio. Was subject 16 just a distant cousin of Desmond who could access the same memories? If so why did they need the memory core of 16 for Desmond to be able to jump into Ezio? Perhaps Desmond's face on Ezio's body in the Animus is just a side effect of the projection? Maybe I just cant see why they actually needed 16's data for Desmond to jump back to Ezio.

alexgrimaudo_94
12-28-2009, 09:57 PM
Here's what I think about all of this in order:

1) "The ones that came before (TWBC)", were an advanced species that were the Gods. They were highly evolved and technologically advanced, so much so that they were able to create other species.
2) TWBC created humans to be their slaves and to build the society for them. The humans had neurotransmitters in their brains which enabled the TWBC to control them using the PoE.
3) One or some of the Gods made love to a human, and their offspring was a mix of the two species. It knew the truth about the TWBC and the humans. This offspring was Adam and Eve.
4) Adam and Eve got rebellious and wanted to liberate the humans, so they stole one of the pieces of Eden.
5) The TWBC lost control of the humans who then destroyed them. (It could have been the solar flair that destroyed the TWBC while Adam and Eve protected the humans using the PoE.)
6) As time went on, a group of humans who wanted total control began to search for the other PoE. They would become the Templars. However, most of the humans didn't care about gaining control, and they are the average citizens of the world not affiliated with the Assassins or the Templars. However, the descendents of Adam and Eve who were still half god, half human, knew that they must keep the Templars from gaining control, or the humans would once again be taken over and controlled. They would become the Assassins. However, not all of the Assassins were half human, half god, only Altair and his descendents were (this is why they have the eagle vision, because it was a trait of the gods). So the war between the templars and the assassins waged on.

As for another solar flair to strike the Earth later on, I have no clue about that. Hope this helps.

drftank
12-28-2009, 11:08 PM
I kinda read through this whole thing quickly, but i noticed that nobody ever said anything about Al Mualim, he was both a "legendary" assassin and a templar as well

Pat0307
12-29-2009, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by Simpsonia:
Ok, here is my take. This obviously builds off of the conjecture of others, but adds more. I would like to add a bit of the religious side here as well, just to put things in perspective.

In the beginning, there were the Those Who Came Before (TWCB). They existed and evolved much like how we believed we did. However, as per what Minerva said, their species did not breed quite as prodigiously as Homo Sapiens. They needed labour and engineered Homo Sapiens (In their image, ala Genesis.) However, they modified us. They added the neurotransmitters to keep us obedient.

Original Sin
There came a time when one of the TWCB, fell (Lucifer). He became an enemy of TWCB, but he remained alive. He tempted or forced Eve to touch PE1 the Apple. By touching (eating) the apple she became aware of good and evil. This became the "Original Sin." As a result, of the original sin, Eve became aware of and immune to the control of the other pieces of Eden. She convinced Adam to touch (eat) the apple and so to be free. Also in traditional Christianity, humans became much more lustful after original sin(leading to our much more potent breeding).

Cast Out of the Garden
It seems that Adam and Eve were not caught and killed by TWCB. They were only expelled (mirroring Genesis.) However they bred fast. They had two sons initially. Cain and Abel. Abel was the apple of his father's eye. He inherited PE1 (the apple). However, Cain was jealous and killed Abel and took the PE1. This was the birth of the Templar Creed. Remember that these Creeds existed before any of the organizations ever did. The creed to take what you want by force to gain power. Cain took the apple and used it to control the other humans, I'm guessing his brothers and sisters if all humans must be descended from Adam and Eve. He initially started the war with his control against TWCB to obtain more pieces of Eden. Since humans bred much more prodigiously, they had a massive numbers advantage.

I must also note that I also believe that Adam and Eve were the mitochondrial ancestors of all current living humans.

The War and the Flood
The war lasted a long time, with the humans slowly winning a battle of attrition. However, war blinded both sides to the impending disaster of the solar flare. Now most cultures have a myth of a giant flood that wiped out most of humanity. This could have been a side effect of the flare's effect on Earth. Whatever happened, only 8 TWCB remained after the disaster. These 8 were: Minerva, Jupiter, Pluto, Neptune, Diana, Apollo, Mars, and Venus (the 8 statuettes.)

Side note: This could also be a point where all other humans not related to Adam and Eve were destroyed. Maybe the true Noah (and family) were descendants of Adam and Eve, while all others perished.

Rebuilding After the Flood
After the flood, humans lost their technology. It was here that the 8 TWCB guided the humans as gods. However, the Templar creed still existed in humanity due to the greed of Cain living on in them. Eventually humans found the some of the long lost pieces of Eden and used them to control other humans.

It was at this point that the 8 remaining TWCB knew they had to take action. They bred with some humans to create the hybrids. They taught these hybrids and instilled in them what was right, the Assassin's Creed. So, assassin hybrids are descendents of both Minerva (or one of the other 8) and Adam and Eve.

The next Flood
The 8 remaining TWCB knew that another great disaster (flare) would come, and sealed away in each of their tombs a piece of knowledge to prevent it. The locations of their tombs are already known to us. There are exactly 8 assassin symbols located on the map hidden on the codex pages.

Questions that Remain and Miscellaneous
Really all that remains is how the next game is going to revolve around Desmond globe-trotting to each of the 8 temples to retrieve whatever it was that the 8 TWCB left behind to prevent the disaster.

Further, the hybrids between TWCB and humans obviously have abilities, such as heightened learning, physical abilities, perception (Eagle Vision), and I also believe Genetic Memory. I believe they also inherited one of TWCB flaws in that they did not breed quite as well as humans. This would explain why the Ezio's and Altair's are so rare in human history. It would also serve to keep their bloodline more potent. This would explain why Desmond as an actual heir to a TWCB bloodline is so damned important to the Templars. There are only 16 other known heirs to TWCB blood, and they are either completely insane or dead.

One of the biggest questions I still have is whether Desmond is actually related to Ezio, and whether Ezio is actually related to Altair. Desmond is surely related to Altair, and 16 is surely related to Ezio. Was subject 16 just a distant cousin of Desmond who could access the same memories? If so why did they need the memory core of 16 for Desmond to be able to jump into Ezio? Perhaps Desmond's face on Ezio's body in the Animus is just a side effect of the projection? Maybe I just cant see why they actually needed 16's data for Desmond to jump back to Ezio.

Ezio and Desmond are definatly related, theeir faces tells it all. The animus wouldnt screw that up. Plus, if Ezio is realted to Altiar,then Desmond must be related to Ezio. As for Subject 16, he is probably related to Desmond if there is a point where their memories meet. They need the core so they could cross Subject 16 and Desmond to find the era where their memories join. Since hybrids store the memories of their ansestor, there must be a time where 16's ancestors mix with Desmond's. Which then leads to Ezio, where both of their memories are stored.

mikeh1294
12-29-2009, 04:38 AM
Why is 16 related to Ezio? When Lucy searched the Animus, I don't think she was searching for ancestors that they both had in common, but rather ancestors that 16 and Desmond had (That weren't related) in the same era.

Also, if Adam and Eve are the ones who all humans relate to, that means that Desmond can experience the memories of anyone in history...

Simpsonia
12-29-2009, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by mikini:

Also, if Adam and Eve are the ones who all humans relate to, that means that Desmond can experience the memories of anyone in history...

No, it just means Desmond can experience the memories of the branches of the tree he is descended from. Think of it this way, he wouldn't be able to experience his uncle's memories because his genetic heritage had already been split off before that person was born.

Perhaps Ezio is descended from Altair, as is Desmond, but that does not mean that Desmond is descended from Ezio. Desmond's ancestor at the time Ezio was alive might have been a distant cousin of his.

mikeh1294
12-29-2009, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by Simpsonia:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mikini:

Also, if Adam and Eve are the ones who all humans relate to, that means that Desmond can experience the memories of anyone in history...

No, it just means Desmond can experience the memories of the branches of the tree he is descended from. Think of it this way, he wouldn't be able to experience his uncle's memories because his genetic heritage had already been split off before that person was born.

Perhaps Ezio is descended from Altair, as is Desmond, but that does not mean that Desmond is descended from Ezio. Desmond's ancestor at the time Ezio was alive might have been a distant cousin of his. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does it say anywhere that Desmond has to be their direct descendant?

And working by your logic, Desmond must be a direct descendant of Ezio.

P459
12-29-2009, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by mikini:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Simpsonia:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mikini:

Also, if Adam and Eve are the ones who all humans relate to, that means that Desmond can experience the memories of anyone in history...

No, it just means Desmond can experience the memories of the branches of the tree he is descended from. Think of it this way, he wouldn't be able to experience his uncle's memories because his genetic heritage had already been split off before that person was born.

Perhaps Ezio is descended from Altair, as is Desmond, but that does not mean that Desmond is descended from Ezio. Desmond's ancestor at the time Ezio was alive might have been a distant cousin of his. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does it say anywhere that Desmond has to be their direct descendant?

And working by your logic, Desmond must be a direct descendant of Ezio. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Desmond has to be a direct descendant of Ezio, else he would not have his memories.
If he was a descendant of Frederico he would have Frederico´s memories.

Pat0307
12-29-2009, 09:48 AM
it would be impossible for Desmond to have Frederico's memories, because he never had a kid.

P459
12-29-2009, 10:08 AM
Notice that I said 'IF'.
And if Frederico is as big a Womanizer as Ezio, then he could had had a child.

PONTIAC4
12-29-2009, 10:23 AM
im not sure but if u think about it, it kinda points at and shows that adam and eve where assassin, if they stole the piece of eden how did the templars know about it? probably because eve and adam told their sons and daughter about it and 1 of them became leader of assassin and templars and told followers about it. the assassin organization last for a long time

P459
12-29-2009, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by PONTIAC4:
im not sure but if u think about it, it kinda points at and shows that adam and eve where assassin, if they stole the piece of eden how did the templars know about it? probably because eve and adam told their sons and daughter about it and 1 of them became leader of assassin and templars and told followers about it. the assassin organization last for a long time

In one of the Glyphs you have to find a cross.
Then it says "Beware, the mark of Cain.".
So I agree with you and I think that Cain was the first Templar.

squall20202
12-29-2009, 11:33 AM
Adam and Eve had to be hybrids or there can't be a vid of them in the animus (no hybrid -> no memory in DNA -> no access to Adam and Eve by 16). Also, they needed to be hybrids in order to do all of the things they did to escape (they moved like assassins in the vid).

Lucy probably needed the templars' animus to find Ezio, but not 16s' memory thing. Shy took it because, well, look at all the information it had. an you leave that with the templars? I dont think so.

Desmond needs to be a descendent of Ezio in order to have the genetic memory (and for the animus to show it to him).

i went out and bought the official guide today to see if it had some clues. It had a Q&A session in it to help clear things up. But it is not that helpful compared to what is here.

this is a given (truth) from the book:
1. Desmond is a descendent of Ezio.
2. TWCB are not gods but were thought of as gods by the local humans where they lived (the true beginnings of the religions in question).
3. TWCB were superior mainly by tech. other things too, but mainly tech.

Strongly supported by book:
1. Adam and Eve are hybrids due to shown assassin ability in truth vid (supported but not 100 percent confirmed because that is not the question, but part of the answer).

Question is: "Are Desmond, Ezio, and Altair somehow descended from the members of the First Civilization (TWCB)? Dose this explain Eagle Vision, and their resistance to Pieces of Eden?"

Graph 14 Bloodlines was mentioned and quoted in answer as "The seeds were planted as two worlds became one. Behold, the Assassins, the children of two worlds"

Notice that templars are not mentioned in quote above, so I think that they are normal, one world, human therefore not from Adam and Eve.

the rest is mainly recap for subtle things that may have been missed, and I will not want to rewrite the book. Mainly due to copy right laws.

All in all, not much to add to the explanation department of this discussion. But its something at least.

Hope this helps

Simpsonia
12-29-2009, 11:52 AM
I still don't buy Adam and Eve being Assassins. First the assassins guild did not exist because before them, all humans were mindless slaves.

It is possible that (under my theory) there might have been factions within the TWCB who opposed the use of pieces of eden (mirroring the assassins creed) and one (possibly named Lucifer) chose to free the humans from their servitude by exposing Adam and Eve to an apple thereby freeing their minds.

Secondly, it is pretty conclusive that certain assassins (Ezio, and Altair) are hybrids, but there is no evidence that Adam and Eve are. If they were, then every human alive today would be partly hybrid. I think Ubi's writers are trying to mirror the traditional Judeo-Christian mythos in their own terms as much as possible.

mikeh1294
12-29-2009, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Simpsonia:
I still don't buy Adam and Eve being Assassins. First the assassins guild did not exist because before them, all humans were mindless slaves.


So by your reasoning, there could never have been any Assassins, as no-one could have joined a non-existent guild. They started it up. THey are Assassins, if not by guild membership, then by following the creed and freeing the whole human race from TWCB.


Secondly, it is pretty conclusive that certain assassins (Ezio, and Altair) are hybrids, but there is no evidence that Adam and Eve are. If they were, then every human alive today would be partly hybrid. I think Ubi's writers are trying to mirror the traditional Judeo-Christian mythos in their own terms as much as possible.

How would every human be related to Adam and Eve? They freed the slave humans from TWCB, fighting them, then the solar flare happened and more humans survived than TWCB, so the Assassins and TWCB agreed not to fight, but to stop the flare ever happening again. Thus there were hybrids (Assassins) and normal humans (Former slaves).

Simpsonia
12-29-2009, 01:33 PM
Sigh, because as I said in my last post, it is my belief that they are trying to mirror Judeo-Christian mythology. That myth being that all humans stemmed came from the original two humans, Adam and Eve. The more modern version being that Eve is the mitochondrial ancestor of all current living humans.

squall20202
12-29-2009, 02:06 PM
The book and I did not say that Adam and Eve were assassins, only that they had assassin like ability, since the order was not made yet at the time of the Truth vid, and we don't know who started it or when. They had to be hybrids because it is the only way to explain their ability and also, possibly after they set free some other humans, they started the war to free us all. Why would TWCB mate with us humans and give us power during a war with us?

I agree with one of the pasts posts about how TWCB had trouble reproducing. That was passed on through Adam and Eve and in effect, producing only a few "true" assassins each generation, like Desmond, Altair and Ezio. It would explain Ezio's father being so happy his son served berth in the beginning of the game, and why the servants and the mother were so worried. That has been bothering me since i stared the game because it looked like the father was going to do something nasty to baby Ezio (possibly kill), and this would explain it. He was worried his son would die (it probably happened before). This would also explain why Ezio's possibly teenage little brother (I forgot his name but he looked to be teenaged to me) had to stay in bed, he was sickly.

Also, why the templars want Desmond so bad, I think he is the 17th and may be the last "true" assassin to be descended from Adam and Eve.

So not all humans were from Adam and Eve. But they were the first to get freedom. Lucifer my have been the TWCB that had kids with a human. It was probably forbidden due to the effect of possible immunity to the POE. There were many humans (as seen in the vid where you see many humans working and only one TWCB) besides Adam and Eve.

In the book, it reads that the loss of innocence was (not that they got the apple) that they realized how much of the TWHB's superiority was in the tech they had and then the war started (or vice versa, I am not looking at it right now).

Also, Minerva said that few of ether species was left after the disaster. Not that all but two lived through it. So there had to be other humans and they are the ancestors of the regular mankind and the templars.

alexgrimaudo_94
12-29-2009, 03:03 PM
What I suggest is that you guys buy the Assassin's creed 2 guide handbook. In the back, it explains the story line of both the first game and this game. I would stop making insinuations about the storyline because really, it is just useless guessing that doesn't help anything, just making people more and more confused.

Ringquelle
12-29-2009, 03:55 PM
Something that's been on my mind...

Besides Cain and Abel, Eve and Adam had several other children. I'm assuming Abel didn't have any children before his death. The other children are never mentioned by name, except for one: Seth. Does that name sounds familiar? Yes it does, it is also the name of the Egyptian God of Desert and Chaos. Coincidence? Perhaps...

The Templars (or at least a part of them) descend from Cain, who descend from Adam and Eve. Shouldn't that mean that they(or some of them) have special abilities as well, just like Ezio, Altair and Desmond? My theory here is that some Templars, perhaps the more crucial ones like Borgia, have special abilities as well. But what abilities are they? As far as we can see it isn't the whole Assassin-like climbing, running and fighting. Eagle vision is a possibility, but who knows...

Back to Seth. He was born after Abel was killed and Eve believed him to be a replacement for Abel. My theory here is that the special abilities (as mentioned above) were split between Cain and Abel. When Abel was slain, half of the abilities were 'lost' to the offspring, untill Seth was born, who was a replacement for Abel.

The problem with the theory here is the other children. Shouldn't their desendants have those abilities too? It's possible that the later children only got watered down versions of the abilities, but I have to admit that this is where my theory lacks...

OniLinkSword
12-29-2009, 04:13 PM
Maybe I just cant see why they actually needed 16's data for Desmond to jump back to Ezio.

Considering all the times 16 went into using the Animus, it's most likely they needed a jumping off point to get the right memories going. It must of took many sessions to get some decent data out of 16. Meaning that it would take them a long time to relocate Ezio's memories in the DNA without 16s data. Time is not on the Assassins's side and they don't want to make Desmond go crazy like 16.

Keep in mind that they make sure they are on Ezio's birth before copying the data and leaving the lab. They also would never mention it in AC1 because you are at the lab where everything took place. They already had the data and just had to get Desmond into that time period.

alexgrimaudo_94
12-29-2009, 04:21 PM
If it's true that Templars are descended from Cain, then that would mean that supposedly Assassins are descended from Abel....?

I believe that the ones that came before created the humans to be slaves. Then one of the ones that came before made love to a human. The resulting offspring (Adam and Eve) knew the truth about what the ones who came before were doing and that the pieces of eden controlled the humans. They then stole one of them and as a result, all of the humans knew the truth. A war raged on between humans and the ones that came before. Then, the solar flair came along wiping out the ones that came before and humans except Adam and Eve. Then Adam and Eve had Cain and Abel. The trait that Adam and Eve inherited from the ones that came before (eagle vision and athleticism) was only passed on to Abel. Then, Abel had children before Cain murdered him. Therefore, the extremely rare trait of eagle vision was still passed down. This explains why continued generations related to Abel had the ability. And as for Cain, he wanted the pieces of Eden to control humanity, so his decendents became the Templars.

This is just my theory.

squall20202
12-29-2009, 07:35 PM
Not all the TWCB died in the flare since they created the vaults after the flare. The same goes for humans since they helped build the vaults too, and more than just Adam and Eve had to survived or everyone would have the assassin traits.

I don't think the abilities can be split though. Adam and Eve were both children of TWCB and humans and in the truth vid, looked to have the same ability. Also by genetics, all of their children would have the same potential to have these abilities and so would their children.

In fact you can even give the example like Abel had abilities and Cain did not. But then Abel's child would not have ability and Cain's child would. Genetics is weird and works that way. You just cant know what will tern up.

Also, Ezio and his brother looked to have the same ability.

I dint think 16 mentioned Abel though, or Seth for that mater. Can anyone remember what 16 said about Cain?

I hope that the templars don't have the same ability as the assassins or we might be in trouble in the next game.

I think I should play the game again just to get inis info. I'll see if I can record all the graphs in my computer to look at them when I need it, or upload it somewhere. Perhaps mega-upload so not to spoil the game for people by putting it on youtube or some other site like that. If I can do it, I'll put up the links here. It might to help in figuring out everything.

Also, can anyone put up the coded messages in the pics from the graphs in AC2 or from the end of AC1? They might also help.

Pat0307
12-29-2009, 08:19 PM
sorry for going off topic, but i found some sort of evidence that subject 16 might be related to desmond. during the fourth(?) puzzle, subject 16 says something like


it keeps getting easier and easier to hack into the animus' mainframe. Its like I know what i am looking for, like I have already lived it

alexgrimaudo_94
12-29-2009, 08:32 PM
All of this stuff is so confusing. So many theories, so many ideas! However, these discussions are very intriguing, even though I don't believe we are going to even get close to the truth. I suggest we lay back and wait for either some kind of explanation released by ubisoft, or for AC3. I also suggest all of you buy the AC2 walkthrough booklet because in the back of it, it has a summary of both of the games, as well as answers to some of the questions that I see you guys asking. It's worth twenty bucks!

Bampire
12-29-2009, 08:37 PM
Haha, that's so much easier said then done. Fans will always have theories as of what is to happen in the next game, that's the fun of waiting.

Drakonous505
12-29-2009, 10:13 PM
I have to admit that the sheer scope of what had happened and where the story is going blew my mind when I watched the ending a few weeks ago. But I hadn't been able to see The Truth until the other day which again blew my mind and answered so much, but left little unanswered for me. Though many of you have your theories, which I respect, but I find that with this mind exploding event little else can be gleened from the ending and The Truth. For me I believe that the video only explained that which we had already known but on a grander scale. Adem and Eve were exiled from Eden after the theft of the apple. The outcome is clear but rather where it goes from the ending of the game itself is what I find the bigger fish in the pond. The Truth we already a known story. It's just how it happened we didn't know. For those of you who are probally wondering what happened after the video ended it's rather obvious if this telling follows what we already know. They got caught. I can understand that some of you wish to know what happened after, but I found it was summed up rather well in the ending. Now that we do know what has happened we can lay to rest the theories of this topic.

I find that we should be looking to the evidence left by the Codex map and try to figure out where Desmond will go next and what will happen along the way. One thing can be said for certain, the Animus may not play as vital role the next time around. Given the current date Desmond may not find as much of a use for it as they have roughly three months to stop the past from ocurring again and wiping out everything for good. Though the bleeding effect having cause him to revisit memories from Altair without the Animus means we may relive more of his ancestors memories and not at will and not who they will be about.

alexgrimaudo_94
12-29-2009, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Drakonous505:
I have to admit that the sheer scope of what had happened and where the story is going blew my mind when I watched the ending a few weeks ago. But I hadn't been able to see The Truth until the other day which again blew my mind and answered so much, but left little unanswered for me. Though many of you have your theories, which I respect, but I find that with this mind exploding event little else can be gleened from the ending and The Truth. For me I believe that the video only explained that which we had already known but on a grander scale. Adem and Eve were exiled from Eden after the theft of the apple. The outcome is clear but rather where it goes from the ending of the game itself is what I find the bigger fish in the pond. The Truth we already a known story. It's just how it happened we didn't know. For those of you who are probally wondering what happened after the video ended it's rather obvious if this telling follows what we already know. They got caught. I can understand that some of you wish to know what happened after, but I found it was summed up rather well in the ending. Now that we do know what has happened we can lay to rest the theories of this topic.

I find that we should be looking to the evidence left by the Codex map and try to figure out where Desmond will go next and what will happen along the way. One thing can be said for certain, the Animus may not play as vital role the next time around. Given the current date Desmond may not find as much of a use for it as they have roughly three months to stop the past from ocurring again and wiping out everything for good. Though the bleeding effect having cause him to revisit memories from Altair without the Animus means we may relive more of his ancestors memories and not at will and not who they will be about.

I would disagree that the animus will not play a vital role in future games. The animus is a feature of the game that Ubisoft cannot get rid of, fans have too much of a passion for playing as ancient assassins. However, I do believe that this will not stop the next games to come from taking place in the modern time with Desmond as the assassin.

I remember someone said earlier something about possibly Adam being reencarnated in Altair, Etzio, and now Desmond. In "the truth" video, at the very end, Eve exclaims to Adam to watch out. I believe what was coming toward him gave him a scar on his lip and right cheek. When he reencarnates into his descendents, they inherit the scar, explaining why Altair, Etzio, and Desmond have the scars.

Drakonous505
12-30-2009, 10:43 AM
Given the timeframe of the series at the moment they don't have enough time to use the animus to look into the past for answers. Granted the only real reason they may want to you use the Animus is to see if they can go back to the past when Those Who Came Before were still around. I feel that one of these times (Aside from Adem and Eve) may be when Ezio's ancestor Aquilus lived, which around roman times as seen in the french comic. http://news.bigdownload.com/20...sassins-creed-comic/ (http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/10/28/the-french-getting-assassins-creed-comic/)
Which means that if that ancestor is infact real in the game series than we may visit back to him for answers seeing how Minerva is the Roman name for the Greek god Athena which may imply that she was still around in the time of the Romans. (Also given the fact that the Vault itself lies in Rome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif)
The reason I believe the Animus may not play as vital a role in the 3rd game is due to the fact Minerva said "...the rest is up to you Desmond." Which in a sense means Desmond needs to go out and find the other vaults and not waist time in the Animus while they only have roughly three months until 12/21/2012.

Scouter822
12-30-2009, 03:50 PM
I have read all the posts in this forum entry about the Truth video, and will preface this by admitting that I have yet to finish the last chapter (still finishing the 30 codex entries). Still, after reading all this well thought out material, I would like to pose this scenerio: Adam and Eve are TWCB defectors, and not hybrids. Their 'children' are humans that they made special that were not to the mold of the other human slaves, which would have been done after they escaped Eden with the Apple.

If I am missing something, please elaborate. But this seems as plausible a scenerio as any...and would explain why Assassins are different without having to be hybrids.

>>---> Arcus, Artes, Astra <---<<

GolSkii
12-30-2009, 07:15 PM
after doing some research i think there is a way desmond and subject 16 are related. altair had 2 sons if i'm not mistaken? i mean how else would they have the same memory in the Animus?

It is possible that Subject 16 is also a descendant of Altaïr, but from a different family than Desmond since Altaïr had at least two sons, as seen in one of the codex pages. Also, when Lucy and Desmond escape Abstergo, Lucy uses the Animus on Desmond one last time to search for any genetic memory matches between Desmond and Subject 16, and finds that the memory of Ezio's birth is one they have in common.

thoughts?

Bampire
12-30-2009, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by golem22:
after doing some research i think there is a way desmond and subject 16 are related. altair had 2 sons if i'm not mistaken? i mean how else would they have the same memory in the Animus?

It is possible that Subject 16 is also a descendant of Altaïr, but from a different family than Desmond since Altaïr had at least two sons, as seen in one of the codex pages. Also, when Lucy and Desmond escape Abstergo, Lucy uses the Animus on Desmond one last time to search for any genetic memory matches between Desmond and Subject 16, and finds that the memory of Ezio's birth is one they have in common.

thoughts?

Get out of my head. I was thinking the same earlier today. Haha. I personally think that yes, Subject 16 is apart of Altair's bloodline. But then again that brings up the thought that if he's apart of that bloodline, then why wasn't the apple of Eden found through Subject 16? and not Desmond?

GolSkii
12-30-2009, 07:30 PM
from what i was thinking, subject 16 killed himself before he got to the vault.

this is from the codex page 29.

A dark tide rises to the east - an army of such size and power that all the land is made quick to worry. Their leader is a man named Temujin, who has adopted the title Genghis Khan. He sweeps across the lands, conquering and subsuming all who stand in his way. Whatever his motives, he must be stopped. Were I younger, I might attempt to undertake this work in secret - as I suspect the presence of a Piece of Eden. But those days are years gone, now. The mantle must be passed. It is time she and I spoke with our sons. We will travel there together, that they may be tested and that this threat might be stopped.

P459
12-30-2009, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Bampire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by golem22:
after doing some research i think there is a way desmond and subject 16 are related. altair had 2 sons if i'm not mistaken? i mean how else would they have the same memory in the Animus?

It is possible that Subject 16 is also a descendant of Altaïr, but from a different family than Desmond since Altaïr had at least two sons, as seen in one of the codex pages. Also, when Lucy and Desmond escape Abstergo, Lucy uses the Animus on Desmond one last time to search for any genetic memory matches between Desmond and Subject 16, and finds that the memory of Ezio's birth is one they have in common.

thoughts?

Get out of my head. I was thinking the same earlier today. Haha. I personally think that yes, Subject 16 is apart of Altair's bloodline. But then again that brings up the thought that if he's apart of that bloodline, then why wasn't the apple of Eden found through Subject 16? and not Desmond? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe he died before they could find it through him?

Bampire
12-30-2009, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by P459:

Maybe he died before they could find it through him?

Good question. But it shouldn't have taken them so long to achieve it. It only taken them so little time to get it from desmond, though.

Hrm..

GolSkii
12-30-2009, 10:00 PM
well they kept subject 16 in for days at a time. do we know how long they kept subject 16? for all we know he could of been there for only a week. then died or something. maybe once subject 16 found out what vidic was really up to and found out their templar's, maybe he stopped searching and was trying to find ways to give clues which we're finding now.

mikeh1294
12-31-2009, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by Bampire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by P459:

Maybe he died before they could find it through him?

Good question. But it shouldn't have taken them so long to achieve it. It only taken them so little time to get it from desmond, though.

Hrm.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But they did go through a fair few ancestors with 16, thats why he went crazy, so maybe they didn't get to a PoE memory before he went mad?

Ringquelle
12-31-2009, 05:11 AM
Since subject 16 seems to have gone through Ezio's memories as well, that means he is a descendant of Ezio too.

nightcobra
12-31-2009, 05:20 AM
"Good question. But it shouldn't have taken them so long to achieve it. It only taken them so little time to get it from desmond, though."

probably because with desmond they already had a clue of which assassin to go to, in this case altair. subj.16 had to go from assassin to assassin just to get the info that altair was one who had a POE.

ASSASSIN_TRUTH
01-05-2010, 10:16 AM
I believe the "demigod" aka the creator of us created us to evolve into them to create another world in the same way in the future as the demi gods did when the second solar flare comes so that the world can carry on if you dont understand this then its okay neither do i just trying to clear things up and the truth video is alot simpler than everyone is making it to be it just means that adam and eve are assassins and are good simple as m8.


nothing is true everything is blind -Luthio Emminori

VRTX97
01-05-2010, 07:07 PM
Woah... you guys really have some good theories..

@shadow8928

Yep... I think that too...
If you remember Vidic Says: ''We want to acces this memory...'' at the beginning of AC1...
How did he know that was the memory?
Because he found it with 16, BEFORE he could acces it. Then 16 went crazy and decorated abstergo's ''Guest Room'', and Vidic's plan crashed. So he looked for someone, maybe close to 16, and found Desmond (Maybe 16 is Desmond's familiar and he didn't know).

blue23454
01-05-2010, 09:12 PM
I admit I only read through the first page before getting a headache.
However, I'd just like to add that reading the Codex pages it mentions his parents, but hardly. It mentions something about how his parents weren't allowed to show love or whatever towards him.

But taking the time period of Altair's life, women were not independent, at all. It's very possible that say, Altair's father could be an assassin while his mother could be human.

Also, if we want to talk reincarnation, you could say that the "Adam gene" if you will, is an inherited gene, and so does not occur in all assassin's (hence the order submitting to Al Mualim's will in the first game). Considering this only happens so often (Altair, Ezio, maybe one or two in between, then Desmond) we could say it is a recessive gene.

As for the scar being inherited from this gene however, it is highly unlikely unless whatever Adam was hit with has the ability to alter one's DNA (however this paragraph is suggesting that the Adam theory is true, Desmond could have descended from any number of those that came before, if you remember the glyph, but I digress)

I'd also like to point out that Adam and Eve were supposedly the first humans (assuming that this part of the bible is true to the Assassin's Creed story).

Now another possibility, we know that the one's who came before were made to be gods and goddesses to cover up what had happened right? So imagine an assassin was born on the other side of the war. Someone who is able to resist the apple, and therefore can see past the world that's been put before us. Now let's name him Jesus Christ. Now supposing Jesus has the "Adam gene" which I invented earlier, not only could he possibly see past the lies, but possibly make others able to resist it, thus making the blind man see. He was raised maybe to create the religion Christianity which eventually would grow to take over and outcast all other religions, making people believe in Christ rather than the Roman gods puts the templars in control over the assassins.

Also a bit of trivial information I'd like to share:
Desmond means "from South Munster"
South Munster is famous for many surviving elements of paganism (paganism including Roman gods)

mikeh1294
01-06-2010, 02:41 AM
@Jedilounge1, We already know Jesus used the Piece of Eden to convince people he was a demi-god, and to make them believe in a god. So why would he replace one god with another?

VRTX97
01-06-2010, 02:24 PM
Woah woah!
Guys! do you realize this is fiction?

DLTyrus
01-06-2010, 04:16 PM
So, have read through almost all of this thread and the sheer amount of theories and everything is crazy, atleast I know I'm not the only one who gets so hooked on the story of games and stuff as to try and figure it all out.

Most of the work done looking at all the hidden riddles and cyphers and stuff within the glyph riddles was very good, but I can't help but feel peoples imaginations are running a bit wild over the last few pages.

For a start, the human race didn't start with only Adam and Eve, it just didn't. Two people can't start an entire race, atleast there must have been a few thousand of the humans that Those Who Came Before created in order for birth rates to even have a chance to exceed death rates, even if we're to assume some greater influence/ability to survive granted by the Piece of Eden (Apple) that Eve stole. I've heard some use the term "mitochondrial ancestor" (probably spelt that wrong) and admittedly I don't know exactly what that means, so perhaps I misunderstand what exactly people meant, but atleast I'd agree that:

-> Adam and Eve were either the first offspring of cross breeding between TWCB and humans, or just normal humans who were guided to the truth by the a more conscientious member of TWCB. Either their "powers" (the leaping abilities seen in the S16 video) were due to their being half-TWCB or granted by the apple.

-> They freed the humans from the mind controlling or whatever by the PoEs used by TWCB and that lead to the war etc. and that lead to the solar flare not being stopped in time and thus wiping out most of TWCB and the humans.

-> After this only a fraction of the humans, but more than JUST Adam and Eve, and just a few of TWCB remained who now worked in harmony to build the temples to protect the earth from future solar radiation etc. and TWCB now acted as Gods to the recovering Human race, who would remember as gods due to their lack of understanding as to TWCB's true nature.

-> Adam and Eve may have lead the remaining humans after this point, using the Apple PoE to help them survive the harsh new world.

If Adam and Even were the only two humans to father the entire rest of the human race, too, we would all share any genetics traits they had, meaning that if they were assassins then so would we all be (albeit some of us would have the genes be dormant) and, from a biological point of view as seen by inbreeding that has occured in the past, we would likely have died out long ago from genetically-passed diseases.

Now, there's still a lot of questioned to be answered and we can only guess at them until we get more info, which will basically only come from AC3.

First, was I the only one who noticed or did I just misreed it? But wasn't that one article we were given by Subject 16 after accessing one of his riddles, the one that talked about the scientific discovery of unknown neuretransmitters - wasn't that dated as 2012? Now, I'm assuming here because I've not heard otherwise but aren't the events of AC2 that take place in the present the same year as it is in reality, i.e, its 2009/10 when we control Desmond in AC2, meaning that this file is somehow from the future? Either that, or AC is set a few years in the future and I just forgot/never realised, or I misread the date on the file.

Second, are Adam and Eve truly hybrids? The only thing we are basing this assumption on is that they can leap around like the assassin's of the future do, but then they are in possession of a Piece of Eden and we have seen that these do more than just mind control people, they do give various physical boosts aswell (such as the one apple's ability to create an illusion of their being multiple versions of the wielder.) The reason I doubt it is that there's no reference to any god-human breeding in The Bible (with the exception of Jesus, but that is immaculate conception), and Adam and Eve were simply "made" by God rather than born from God and a human woman.

The concept of religion must have begun after the catastrophe, not only because beforehand the human race were mindless slaves, until they were freed and began a war - not exactly an ideal time to start writing mythical stories and idolizing those you're fighting to free yourself from - but because so many were wiped out that any religious idea that may have formed would likely have died with them.
Now, its clear to see that the idea is that the few remaining of TWCB lived long enough to be seen as the gods in the Egyptian, Greek, Roman etc. religions, but if we are to assume that this occured -after- Adam and Eve "fall from grace" it does seem to conflict with the fact that Egyptian, Greek etc. religious concepts pre-date that of Christianity.
However, you could argue that the reason why christianity, with its single deity and very descriptive concept of creation (as opposed to the much more vague concepts regarding creation of the earlier religions) only surfaced after the multi-deity religions did, even though by this point the actual physical Adam and Eve would have long been dead, is because the few remaining of TWCB were also now dead and no longer served as such a strong inspiration on religious ideas and thus the humans of the time instead drew their inspiration from the stories of the "first two humans."

Though, its my belief that at some point between the cataclysm and the dying out of the last of TWCB, the assassin bloodlines began when TWCB, either by temptation or simply desperation to maintain their bloodline, mated with some of the humans to give birth to the hybrids who would develop the powers we see in Altair and Ezio. Note that Desmond has only gained his abilities as the result of the Bleed effect, not having had them from birth, and so to me this makes it likely that Desmond's genes are in fact dormant, but the fact he has them means that the Animus' bleeding effect grants him the dormant abilities rather than just turning him insane.

Also, I don't think that Subject 16 and Desmond are related, I simply believe that Subject 16 is related to Adam and Eve, who were not assassins (see above) and that is why 1) S16 went insane from the Animus' bleeding 2) Abstergo never found a PoE memory from S16 and 3) S16 was able to relive the Adam and Eve memory and store the file within the Animus for Desmond to find later.

Though, the actual video file we see for the adam and eve memory is a little confusing. For a start it is labled with Subject 16 and the Date is classified, meaning that we are in fact seeing a video file made from presumably recording the memory, and not just the raw memory itself. Second, the fact it is labled/the date is classified seems more like something Abstergo would do than S16 would do, meaning the file may have been stored on their systems and that S16 merely hacked it as he did with the rest of the files we find, but that would mean that Abstergo would have seen that video and know more about the true nature of the Assassin Bloodline than they appear to in the first game, since Subject 16 was already dead at this point.


Another point is the nature/use of the Pieces of Eden. Posts here seem to suggest they were created to mind control the human slaverace, fair enough, but then what of their other uses? The PoEs are clearly useable by anyone, not just those who have TWCB in their ancestory, but perhaps then not to their full extent. For example, Rodrigo Borgia is able to use the Staff Piece of Eden to attack Ezio and almost defeat him, but he cannot use the pieces to open the Vault and only Ezio is able to do this. I'm tempted to believe, though, that Ezio and only Ezio would ever have been able to open than Vault because he was "the prophet", and not simply because he had TWCB DNA. To support this argument I'd take for example the fact that Ezio is seemingly fatally stabbed by Borgia just before we make the way to the vault, yet he is able to get up, fist-fight and defeat Borgia and then open the Vault, and live on beyond this point to father children.
In this respect Ezio, like Altair, is special because his survival (up until he has completed the tasks that lead to Desmond's continued ancestory) is essential, but that his actual TWCB ancestory does not give him any special control over the Pieces of Eden.

As an earlier poster pointed out, there are atleast 66 Pieces of Eden since we discover that the shroud is piece 66, and it seems unlikely you'd need 66 pieces all to control the humans. I reckon that the Apple that Eve stole is the one that controls peoples actions/minds, or that all four apples together do this, and that the other 60-something pieces grant other powers.

Don't forget, aswell, that the files we read that S16 gave to us are full of examples of none-assassins using the Pieces of Eden, so its clear that anyone can use them but that perhaps assassins have some resistance, or atleast Desmond's bloodline has some resistance.

This post turned out far longer and more complicated than I intended, so I do appologize if parts are confusing. Its also my first post on these forums, but I was far too impatient to put down some ideas of my own to say hi. :P

QuintonBeck
01-06-2010, 05:19 PM
Desmond's time is set in 2012.

DLTyrus
01-06-2010, 06:23 PM
Yeah I realised that after I made that post after I read it on wikipedia, oh well.

Psyantifik
01-06-2010, 06:47 PM
I've read most this thread and the replies given are top notch.

Though i havn't read much on what Adam and Eve see at the end of the memory? I have no idea what Eve shouts "look out" for =S

Any ideas?

Also (Just Me)... the band round Eve's arm reminds me of the red fabric drapes Altair and Ezio both adopt on there outfits (Though its not really bold red or draped on Eve).

deflagratio1
01-06-2010, 08:46 PM
I figured out how 16 and Desmond are related to Ezio but The Templars don't have the codex map. Remember when Desmond bleeds into a later memory of Altair where he sleeps with the Templar chick (don't remember the name). The memory stays with her. The reason is because that is the point where Altair's DNA leaves him and impregnates her. Naturally The DNA memory would flow into the next person.
Now think like the Templars. They obviously keep records of who has what piece of eden. They have histories. Now they have the Animus which lets allows them to drag up genetic memories and view them. What better way to use this to your advantage than to use your enemies memories to find the Pieces of Eden they were hiding from them. So they have a list of Dates and people who halted The Templars at major points. So they locate them in 16's memory. Sure they look at 16's memory of Ezio and they record and bookmark the birth because it has some interesting information. Then they jump forward to the day his family is killed because that is what set the assassinations in motion. Well they find out the memories cut off a day too early. Well crap on to the next memory. Now you get Desmond Miles. They were actively looking for him. Thanks to 16 they had a starting point for genealogical research. Of course he was off the grid and it was his motorcycle that got him captured. But Desmond was something 16 wasn't: Stable. More on this later.
Fact: Ezio is a womanizer. He has slept with multiple women including the guy you fight in the beginning's sister. Well Ezio impregnates one of these ladies (probably the one he slept with the night before his family was arrested). The DNA memory stops there and 16 can no longer follow Ezio.

Brett_Master5
01-06-2010, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by DLTyrus:


The humans didn't start with Adam and Eve. Those Who Came Before transformed apes into humans with the Pieces of Eden. They created a switch in the brain that allows humans to be controlled.

Adam and Eve are the result of a TWCB and human mating whether by love or force. Also of note that Adam and Eve are NOT THE ONLY ones who were born half-breeds.

Thus is the assumed position that there are two sectors (or whatever word I'm really looking for) of Assassins. Those of the Bloodline of the the half-breeds and those that are humans who are a part of the organization that Al Maulim and Machiavelli created. Those of the bloodline have enhanced agility, speed, learning ability, resistance against most powers of the Pieces of Eden (not total resistance though), as well as enhanced endurance (this is evident from the fact that Ezio and Altair seem to take no damage from falls from great heights into hay bales).

The solar flare occured around 75,000 years before 2012. This coming from the glyph about Mt Toba, and the fact that 16 says it wasn't a volcanic eruption.

Humans of the time knew exactly what they were, but as TWCB died off as well as the passage of time, their legends became myth and exagerated, so they were seen as Gods. Humans and TWCB worked together to rebuild society, however TWCB did NOT act as gods, as is shown when Minerva scoffs when Ezio asks if she's a god, and explains that because of their advanced intellect and technology they were seen as such.

DLTyrus
01-06-2010, 10:29 PM
There's still no real basis to assume that Adam and Eve were born from a cross breeding of TWCB and the humans they created, the only evidence we have to assume that is that they can run around in a similar fashion to how the assassin's do.

I still think it is a lot more likely that TWCB bred with humans after their race was almost extinct by the solar flare, both because their being that few of them would have been a good reason for them to mate with humans but also because I still think it unlikely that the fact that these "Gods" mating with humans would have become part of religious myth had it all occured before most of the human race was wuped out.

I'm not sure if that glyph where we "transform" an ape-like skeleton in a human one by moving a piece of eden over it was really meant to literally mean that is how humans were made, or just to emphasize the whole point that The Templars faked the find that links humans to apes in order to cover up the greater truth that the human race was engineered, which we discovered they did in an article in the same glyph riddle. Since TWCB made Humans "in their image", it would seem, scientifically atleast, more likely they would have built them up from the very basics of DNA, rather than transform another humanoid animal into a likeness.

As for the God thing, well yes, thats essentially the same thing, it doesn't really matter exactly when the human race mythologized TWCB from a more superior and advanced race into the concept of Gods, its a fairly irrelevant point whether the humans of Adam and Eve's time knew exactly who and what TWCB were or not IMO.

P459
01-06-2010, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by DLTyrus:
There's still no real basis to assume that Adam and Eve were born from a cross breeding of TWCB and the humans they created, the only evidence we have to assume that is that they can run around in a similar fashion to how the assassin's do.

I still think it is a lot more likely that TWCB bred with humans after their race was almost extinct by the solar flare, both because their being that few of them would have been a good reason for them to mate with humans but also because I still think it unlikely that the fact that these "Gods" mating with humans would have become part of religious myth had it all occured before most of the human race was wuped out.

I'm not sure if that glyph where we "transform" an ape-like skeleton in a human one by moving a piece of eden over it was really meant to literally mean that is how humans were made, or just to emphasize the whole point that The Templars faked the find that links humans to apes in order to cover up the greater truth that the human race was engineered, which we discovered they did in an article in the same glyph riddle. Since TWCB made Humans "in their image", it would seem, scientifically atleast, more likely they would have built them up from the very basics of DNA, rather than transform another humanoid animal into a likeness.

As for the God thing, well yes, thats essentially the same thing, it doesn't really matter exactly when the human race mythologized TWCB from a more superior and advanced race into the concept of Gods, its a fairly irrelevant point whether the humans of Adam and Eve's time knew exactly who and what TWCB were or not IMO. In one of the glyphs it says: "Behold, the Assassins, children of two worlds."
Could hint that they were children of TWCB and humans?

Brett_Master5
01-08-2010, 02:36 AM
DLTyrus:

Minerva says herself that Humans were created in the image of TWCB. The Pieces of Eden expedited the evolution from Ape to Human. If Humans were built from the DNA up (which you're right they were), than TWCB would at least had to have had a base subject. They really couldn't just pluck some sort of molecule from the air and build DNA from it. I would assume that they done thousands of experiments to find which would best fit what they required. I would assume they found Apes to be the best fit, and modified them, and implanting within the brain a switch of sorts for the neurotransmitter, to be activated or deactivated.

The fact that Adam and Eve resisted the mind control of the Apple long enough to steal it away would certainly suggest that they were the result of a mated TWCB and regular human. Which in turn certainly suggests that the matings were happening before the solar flare.

I'm sure they bred a lot more with humans afterwards. Or maybe they didn't? Maybe they realised that having to many that could resist the powers of the Pieces of Edens would be devastating to the human race, and instead resigned to their fate of dying out (which Minerva certainly was).

blue23454
01-08-2010, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by mikini:
@Jedilounge1, We already know Jesus used the Piece of Eden to convince people he was a demi-god, and to make them believe in a god. So why would he replace one god with another?

like I said in the beginning of the post
I didn't read the whole thread
my bad

DLTyrus
01-08-2010, 04:32 PM
In one of the glyphs it says: "Behold, the Assassins, children of two worlds."
Could hint that they were children of TWCB and humans?

Of course, not denying that the Assassin's, or atleast that Desmond's heritage comes from cross-breeding between TWCB and humans, but just questioning the assumption that that is true of Adam and Eve too, which most people seem to have taken as fact since it was suggested, for no real basis.



DLTyrus:

Minerva says herself that Humans were created in the image of TWCB. The Pieces of Eden expedited the evolution from Ape to Human. If Humans were built from the DNA up (which you're right they were), than TWCB would at least had to have had a base subject. They really couldn't just pluck some sort of molecule from the air and build DNA from it. I would assume that they done thousands of experiments to find which would best fit what they required. I would assume they found Apes to be the best fit, and modified them, and implanting within the brain a switch of sorts for the neurotransmitter, to be activated or deactivated.

The fact that Adam and Eve resisted the mind control of the Apple long enough to steal it away would certainly suggest that they were the result of a mated TWCB and regular human. Which in turn certainly suggests that the matings were happening before the solar flare.

I'm sure they bred a lot more with humans afterwards. Or maybe they didn't? Maybe they realised that having to many that could resist the powers of the Pieces of Edens would be devastating to the human race, and instead resigned to their fate of dying out (which Minerva certainly was).


Well, again a lot of assumptions. We have no idea just how far TWCB's technology extends to know if they'd need a "base subject" or anything. Our own race cloned Dolly the Sheep without transforming a Cow into a Sheep, now didn't they? It is my belief that they more likely used some form of cloning - something along the lines of cloning themselves, only they genitcally engineered the embyros (or the equivalent of) to create the Human race.

Also, we only assume that Adam and Eve resisted the Apple's mind control long enough to steal it, in fact we assume that it was even the apple that did the mind controlling - or that mind controlling was even a factor (I forget if Minerva herself said they specifically used mind control or not now). Too many assumptions, all we know is they stole a piece of Eden and, from then on, somehow freed the rest of the humans and began a war. It seems likely that Adam and Eve were the first "Assassins" and were the result of cross-breeding, but only if all that we assume that makes that seem true is also true, and that seems unlikely.

The reason I do not believe that TWCB bred with humans before the flare is simple, if the human race were mind-controlled to the point of total illusion about their lives, why would their myths that tell the story of these Gods mating with humans ever have arisen? When the events actually happened, no human would even be aware of what happened because presumably at this point they were not capable of indepedant thought, let alone imagination.

DLTyrus
01-08-2010, 05:16 PM
Okay, sorry for the double post but I feel the need to make this clearer by putting it in its own post. I rewatched the ending on youtube because I felt, atleast personally, I was beginning to blur what people here have suggested and what the game actually presented, and forgetting what parts were true and others just assumed.

So, I rewatched the ending on youtube (and will provide the link at the end), which contained subtitles and so have made a transcript of the entire Minerva conversation, it is as follows:


Minerva: Greetings prophet. It is good you have come. Let us see it. To give thanks.

<Ezio holds out the Apple>

Minerva: We must speak.

Ezio: Who are you?

Minerva: Many names. When I died, it was Minerva. Before that Merva and Mera. And on and on.

Minerva: The others, too: Juno, who was before called Uni. Jupiter, who was before called Tinia...

Ezio: You are... gods.

<Minerva laughs>

Minerva: No. Not gods. We simple came... before. Even when we walked the world, your kind struggled to understand out existence. We were more... advanced in time. Your minds were not yet ready.

<Minerva looks towards the camera>

Minerva: Still... not. Maybe never. No matter. You may not comprehend us. But you will comprehand our warning. You must.

Ezio: None of what you are saying makes sense...

Minerva: Our words are not meant for you.

<Ezio looks around>

Ezio: What are you talking about? There's no one else here!

<Minerva looks back at Ezio>

Minerva: Enough! I do not wish to speak with you, but through you. You are the prophet. You've played your part.

Minerva: You anchor him, but please be silent! That we may commune.

<Minerva looks at the camera again>

Minerva: Listen.

<Minerva glows and then dissapears, speaking now disembodied>

Minerva: When we were still flesh and our home still whole, your kind betrayed us. We who made you. We, who gave you life!

<We see a hologram of egyptian pictures of the Gods>

Minerva: We were strong. But you were many. And both of us craved war.

Minerva: So busy we were with earthly concerns, we failed to notice the heavens. And by the time we did...

<We see a hologram of the solar system>

Minerva: The world burned until naught remained but ash. It should have ended then and there. But we built you in our own image. We built you to survive.

Minerva: And so we did. Few were our numbers. Your kind and mine.

Minerva: It took sacrifice. Strength. Compassion. But we rebuilt. And as life returned to the world... We endeavored to ensure this tragedy would not be repeated.

Minerva: But now we are dying... And time will work against us. Truth turned into myth and legend. What we built, misunderstood. Let my words preserve the message and make a record of our loss.

Minerva: But let my words also bring hope. You must find the other temples. Built by those who knew to turn away from war. They worked to protect us - to save us from the fire. If you can find them... if their work can be saved... so too might this world.

Minerva: Be quick! For time grows short. And guard against the cross - for there are many who will stand in your way.

<Minerva's hologram reappears>

Minerva: It is done. The message is delivered. We are gone now from this world. All of us. We can do no more. The rest is up to you, Desmond.

Ezio: What? Who is Desmond? I don't understand... Please, wait! I have so many questions!

<Minerva dissapears again>

Desmond: What. The. ****.


And thats it. No mention of mind control, no mention of even enslaving the human's, only that they created them. Perhaps Minerva's use of the word "betrayed" is coloured by the bias of her opinion, being her allegiances clearly lie with her own race, but nevertheless it suggests that the Human's made the first aggresive move and started the war.

Here are the things we have assumed, that Minerva's words do not prove, but do not necessarily disprove:

. That the humans were created to work as slaves for TWCB.

. That they mind-controlled the Humans, with the pieces of Eden, or that the Pieces were created at the same time as the Humans.

. That Adam and Eve over came this mind control, or resisted it through abilities granted by their cross-breeding conception.

. That Adam and Eve were the only Humans to survive the Solar Flare, and the the piece of eden helped them survive.

. That TWCB cross-bred with humans, with Adam and Eve being the first of this kind.

And here are things that Minerva either implies or confirms:

. The Human race never, and still does not, truly understand the nature of Those Who Came Before.

. After the Flare, Humans and TWCB lived in harmony, or atleast in peace.

. That the truth of Those Who Came Before turned into myth and legend after the world was destroyed and rebuilt, by TWCB and the Humans together.

. That the remaining of TWCB lived long enough to become the gods of many religious beliefs throughout time, and died around the time they were known of by their Roman names.

. The Solar Flare hit because TWCB were distracted, which presumable means they would have had the power to prevent it otherwise.

. That the next cataclysmic event will happen very soon, presumably this year (2012, in Desmond's time. Possibly on the date which people believe the world to end in reality, 12/21)


Now of course, some assumptions are taken from The Truth video and from the preceeding glyph files, but I'm fairly sure none of the glyph files indicate any truth about the nature or actions of TWCB, except the one that suggests the assassin's were born from cross-breeding, and the one that indicates that humans did not evolve from apes, no?

BeckettMiyamoto
01-08-2010, 08:19 PM
@Xios, it appears are brain lengths are intertwined haha.

As it appears to me, the whole background plot everyone tries to explain here is a mixture of many Ancient Chinese and Greek mythological tales. The Ancient Greek part pertains to the items, and the "Beings before" with the Chinese, as Xion put. As I dwelled deeper into Greek Mythology, it boggled my mind why Ubi never put this stuff into the story. Now I cant remember names, but one tale consisted of a male agaisnt a female in a race. How did the male win against the fastest women in Greece? A GOLDEN APPLE. Another example, The whole cause of the trojan war, the golden apples of Discord. Agammemnon carried a staff made for Zeus and carried down to all the way to the house of Atreus. Now the staff is obviously powerless, only a magnifier for the apple when connected, thats why its only used a symbol of respect among Greek soldiers in Homer's Iliad.

About the Plot, The before beings remind me of the characters from Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. People went so far throughout time and space that they went back in time, As the most intelligent human beings found in the Child, Earth, they put their brain to the true test, doing what pray tell? Making humanity in their own perspective. The Greeks said that man was split in the three. The Golden, the silver, and Bronze. These being the social classes, the golden being royalty, always dining withthe gods, and the Bronze being the slaves to do all of the golden and god biddings. Eventually, we, Like Terminator, became self aware. No longer would man be shackled down by commands, no now, WE would control the lesser. More humanity was created. This is my impression of why colonists said the bible allowed for them to hold Africans as slaves. It became that looks and differentiating aspects of man became their faults, and therefore, the were Lesser. If Lesser, then you might as well not exist. But since you do, you might as well be put to work. After the "Before Beings" were nearly destroyed, they created a plan. A destiny that would slowly be brought out as we eventually became smarter

Once we achieved this intelligence, the Renaissance, an automated voice recording told the only one who would understand what a Brooklynese man would say "You're ****ED."
Ezio, of course, was the man to recieve this voicemail. What happened to them will happen to us, and what i believe to be the cycle of time, The Lesser will rise, make Lessers, and then be wiped out, and the whole situation will occur over and over and over until all life is declared missing by the one that controls the sun.

The only question That I raise, is why decide to enslave instead of bracing for the sun's impact? Unless. . . yes. . . unless what they build makes them think will please the sun into not engulfing our livelihood. This is where the ignorance of religion ends up being a waste of time.

So suddenly, man arose, thanks to the "Before Beings". During that time, a balance had to be made. Thus, Assassins. These were to keep balance, so that their ultimate destiny could be fulfilled.

Its funny that when thinking this way, it sorta ends up saying the templars would be our saviors, sure being enslaved, but throwing off the balance so that the sun's hunger never arrives at us.

Reading so many conspiracies like this, the matrix, and other things such as Ishmeal, they all connect. And when they connect, it is the death of us all. To think that if we remained stupid, none of this would've happened.

Fate can play such a cruel game of chess.

BeckettMiyamoto
01-08-2010, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by DLTyrus:
Okay, sorry for the double post but I feel the need to make this clearer by putting it in its own post. I rewatched the ending on youtube because I felt, atleast personally, I was beginning to blur what people here have suggested and what the game actually presented, and forgetting what parts were true and others just assumed.

So, I rewatched the ending on youtube (and will provide the link at the end), which contained subtitles and so have made a transcript of the entire Minerva conversation, it is as follows:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Minerva: Greetings prophet. It is good you have come. Let us see it. To give thanks.

<Ezio holds out the Apple>

Minerva: We must speak.

Ezio: Who are you?

Minerva: Many names. When I died, it was Minerva. Before that Merva and Mera. And on and on.

Minerva: The others, too: Juno, who was before called Uni. Jupiter, who was before called Tinia...

Ezio: You are... gods.

<Minerva laughs>

Minerva: No. Not gods. We simple came... before. Even when we walked the world, your kind struggled to understand out existence. We were more... advanced in time. Your minds were not yet ready.

<Minerva looks towards the camera>

Minerva: Still... not. Maybe never. No matter. You may not comprehend us. But you will comprehand our warning. You must.

Ezio: None of what you are saying makes sense...

Minerva: Our words are not meant for you.

<Ezio looks around>

Ezio: What are you talking about? There's no one else here!

<Minerva looks back at Ezio>

Minerva: Enough! I do not wish to speak with you, but through you. You are the prophet. You've played your part.

Minerva: You anchor him, but please be silent! That we may commune.

<Minerva looks at the camera again>

Minerva: Listen.

<Minerva glows and then dissapears, speaking now disembodied>

Minerva: When we were still flesh and our home still whole, your kind betrayed us. We who made you. We, who gave you life!

<We see a hologram of egyptian pictures of the Gods>

Minerva: We were strong. But you were many. And both of us craved war.

Minerva: So busy we were with earthly concerns, we failed to notice the heavens. And by the time we did...

<We see a hologram of the solar system>

Minerva: The world burned until naught remained but ash. It should have ended then and there. But we built you in our own image. We built you to survive.

Minerva: And so we did. Few were our numbers. Your kind and mine.

Minerva: It took sacrifice. Strength. Compassion. But we rebuilt. And as life returned to the world... We endeavored to ensure this tragedy would not be repeated.

Minerva: But now we are dying... And time will work against us. Truth turned into myth and legend. What we built, misunderstood. Let my words preserve the message and make a record of our loss.

Minerva: But let my words also bring hope. You must find the other temples. Built by those who knew to turn away from war. They worked to protect us - to save us from the fire. If you can find them... if their work can be saved... so too might this world.

Minerva: Be quick! For time grows short. And guard against the cross - for there are many who will stand in your way.

<Minerva's hologram reappears>

Minerva: It is done. The message is delivered. We are gone now from this world. All of us. We can do no more. The rest is up to you, Desmond.

Ezio: What? Who is Desmond? I don't understand... Please, wait! I have so many questions!

<Minerva dissapears again>

Desmond: What. The. ****.


And thats it. No mention of mind control, no mention of even enslaving the human's, only that they created them. Perhaps Minerva's use of the word "betrayed" is coloured by the bias of her opinion, being her allegiances clearly lie with her own race, but nevertheless it suggests that the Human's made the first aggresive move and started the war.

Here are the things we have assumed, that Minerva's words do not prove, but do not necessarily disprove:

. That the humans were created to work as slaves for TWCB.

. That they mind-controlled the Humans, with the pieces of Eden, or that the Pieces were created at the same time as the Humans.

. That Adam and Eve over came this mind control, or resisted it through abilities granted by their cross-breeding conception.

. That Adam and Eve were the only Humans to survive the Solar Flare, and the the piece of eden helped them survive.

. That TWCB cross-bred with humans, with Adam and Eve being the first of this kind.

And here are things that Minerva either implies or confirms:

. The Human race never, and still does not, truly understand the nature of Those Who Came Before.

. After the Flare, Humans and TWCB lived in harmony, or atleast in peace.

. That the truth of Those Who Came Before turned into myth and legend after the world was destroyed and rebuilt, by TWCB and the Humans together.

. That the remaining of TWCB lived long enough to become the gods of many religious beliefs throughout time, and died around the time they were known of by their Roman names.

. The Solar Flare hit because TWCB were distracted, which presumable means they would have had the power to prevent it otherwise.

. That the next cataclysmic event will happen very soon, presumably this year (2012, in Desmond's time. Possibly on the date which people believe the world to end in reality, 12/21)


Now of course, some assumptions are taken from The Truth video and from the preceeding glyph files, but I'm fairly sure none of the glyph files indicate any truth about the nature or actions of TWCB, except the one that suggests the assassin's were born from cross-breeding, and the one that indicates that humans did not evolve from apes, no? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True True, I neglected to read this post before I posted, for I would've had more to tell had I did.

It appears that the solar flare their version of the cataclysmic event that destroys almost, but not all life. Bible: The flood. I believe there was also a flood in the Quran, I cant remember for sure. Greek: Flood given by Zeus or as Minerva put it, Jupiter. All life except the two born of Eurystheus, the one who supposedly built humanity.

But the fact that The substitution of the flood with Solar flares intrigues me. Now not only would the flare need to be so huge that it stretches to the Earth, but the Nuclear energy given off by the flare woud get rid of all life on the planet where the flare ceased to hit.
(May I let you know im 14, and only know this stuff when i really think haha)

Now the enslavement is truly the Templars idea, the TWCB only used the pieces of eden to maintain the control throughought humanity's puberty, The templars desire these pieces obviously FOR the mind control.

I need to puzzle this over somemore so if you guys want me to continue let me know haha.

mikeh1294
01-09-2010, 03:41 AM
@BeckettMiyamoto, I don't think the flare would have to reach Earth. Think about it, it heats us up from that distance away, so if a sudden spike in heat and energy happened, the flare, it would reach us, and fry us, leaving the world, as Minerva said, as ash.

Also scientists know that a solar flare could wipe us out, as Lucy says to Desmond. It could fry us, or flip the Earth's magnetic poles, screwing us all up.

That's what I interpreted it as, anyway. :P

UncivilMaxis
01-09-2010, 12:23 PM
Wow, all of this is really interesting. I just finished the game and I never imagined how involved the story really was.

Also I just finished reading several posts, and I noticed that many people think that Subj. 16 memory was needed for desmond to have his "adventure". However at the beginning of the game the girl that is with desmond when they escape says she needs the memory core of the animus. Later when they get to the hideout and you scan your first glyph, either the rebecca or the other girl says that subject 16 memory must have been accidentally downloaded also.

I hope this thread keeps going, I really like all the theories and it helps me wait for AC3

BeckettMiyamoto
01-09-2010, 02:24 PM
Yes the solar flare could do that. but you do realize that we've encountered tons of solar flares that have had no effect on us? besides, it still has ,illions of miles to reach, and the solar flare would have to be enormous in order to have such a drastic effect. Either way, the sun'll fry us up, and I do recall one of the glyphs had a picture of the sun and inside an image of the earth which was a tiny dot that you had to locate. So the flare will either kill us, or the sun, right before it dies out, will engulf us, as scientists have said can eventually happen.

mikeh1294
01-09-2010, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by BeckettMiyamoto:
Yes the solar flare could do that. but you do realize that we've encountered tons of solar flares that have had no effect on us? besides, it still has ,illions of miles to reach, and the solar flare would have to be enormous in order to have such a drastic effect. Either way, the sun'll fry us up, and I do recall one of the glyphs had a picture of the sun and inside an image of the earth which was a tiny dot that you had to locate. So the flare will either kill us, or the sun, right before it dies out, will engulf us, as scientists have said can eventually happen.

We may have had a few solar flares, but this one could be on a massive scale, which would wipe us out.

The spot on the Sun was a Piece of Eden, was it not? So maybe to save the Earth, Desmond and Lucy need to launch a Piece of Eden into the Sun? Or the flare could be something that even The Ones Who Came Before don't understand either And it might be something related to he Piece of Eden?

Or maybe, the Templars are planning on sending a Piece of Eden into Space to control Earth, the satellite could go out of control and crash into the Sun, and it's "powers" cause the flare?


Sorry if the is dis-jointed, I'm watching a film and typing in the dark. :P

DLTyrus
01-09-2010, 05:20 PM
The glyph file where we had to ID the Sun did indeed reveal the Earth in its orbit around the Sun, it just conveniently had the same basic size and shape as the Apple has in previous riddles, so who knows.

BeckettMiyamoto, you're correct in that we've had loads of solar flares even just within the time of humans' ability to record them, but it is not a scientific impossibility that a flare could be large enough to reach Earth (or enough of its radiation to reach Earth) to cause major damage. While it is perhaps at best disaster-movie Science, AC2 is a game and can take liberties in order to make a dramatic, entertaining, doomsday scenario.

Afterall, if you were to accurately depict a world-ending scenario with infallable scientific accuracy, you'd essentially have to set your time period of anywhere between thousands and millions of years, and I think we can all agree that that would not be the most dramatic or entertaining piece of fiction.

UncivilMaxis
01-10-2010, 12:24 AM
I think I may have some information as to the "suits adam and eve apparently wear, Some people think they are suits and others think they are naked. I think it might be a little of both but as for the blue lines, has anybody thought that maybe it could be their nerves that are showing or the bones, or maybe the whole system. I was looking at the video (courtesy of youtube thanks to my laziness) and I noticed the where they glow, is also where there are major bones. Also when they are climbing the window and pass the person who looks like ezio, if you pause the video right on the part and you focus on the humans working, you'll notice that the parts that glow also outline muscles and bones. For example, one of the workers in the far right, the glowing line makes out what looks like his hamstring and/or his leg muscles.

mikeh1294
01-10-2010, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by UncivilMaxis:
I think I may have some information as to the "suits adam and eve apparently wear, Some people think they are suits and others think they are naked. I think it might be a little of both but as for the blue lines, has anybody thought that maybe it could be their nerves that are showing or the bones, or maybe the whole system. I was looking at the video (courtesy of youtube thanks to my laziness) and I noticed the where they glow, is also where there are major bones. Also when they are climbing the window and pass the person who looks like ezio, if you pause the video right on the part and you focus on the humans working, you'll notice that the parts that glow also outline muscles and bones. For example, one of the workers in the far right, the glowing line makes out what looks like his hamstring and/or his leg muscles.

I'm sure in an interview one of the developers said it was a suit, a they couldn't have them running around naked. I'm not 100% on that, but I am pretty certain.

DOS_SkywalkR
01-10-2010, 02:56 AM
how weird is that, when i watched the video on youtube i heard the "look out" for the first time, in my game it isn't there o.O

well however, i am not going as deep into speculation as some did here before, but what i am gonna say:

we don't see adam's face, so it quite sure resembles that of altair, ezio and desmond. i think desmond through this is a direct descendandt of adam.

i don't think these three persons are the traitors minerva spoke of, maybe they tried to save the apple before that disaster with the sun happened. the three persons i mean adam, eve and the guy through who's eyes we see the video (and the person watching through his eyes via the animus being subject 16, the person even having his voice - someone said it is desmond's voice, but i am sure it is that of subject 16 who by the way doesn't sound sooo different from desmond although i don't mean that means anything, just a coincidence).

i think they just have that glow on them because they were a seperiour race that later evolved into humans. and being said that adam probably is a direct ancestor to desmond, in the next game or maybe the game after that we get to play scenes like that from the truth through desmond. i am pretty excited about what we have coming in the future in the storyline. i just hope we will be able to replay those missions then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

InfernalTyrant
01-10-2010, 03:01 AM
To the people saying that there are three people... Just remember it is a video game. If we watch a movie and see two people, we don't automatically think that there must be three people.
I'm not saying it's wrong though.

DOS_SkywalkR
01-10-2010, 03:12 AM
well of course in a movie or game if we see two people this doesn't indicate there are three people, but the voice is so loud that it probably doesn not come from the guy next to the eve but from the screen where eve looks at.

man i still find it weird and annoying that in my game eve doesn't say "look out!" in the end! i hate when something is being left incomplete. did anybody else have that happen?

mikeh1294
01-10-2010, 04:02 AM
@DOS_SkywalkR, We do see Adam's face, it was either posted in here a few pages back, or posted in another thread.

@InfernalTyrant, That's what I have been saying, the Animus shows the ancestors in the third person perspective, so therefore it makes sense that there are only two people, not a third person that we are using to look out of their eyes.

DOS_SkywalkR
01-10-2010, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by mikini:
@DOS_SkywalkR, We do see Adam's face, it was either posted in here a few pages back, or posted in another thread.

a link would be nice ^^
so what did he look like?


@InfernalTyrant, That's what I have been saying, the Animus shows the ancestors in the third person perspective, so therefore it makes sense that there are only two people, not a third person that we are using to look out of their eyes.
as i wrote:
someone screems "EVE!", and eve turns her face to the screen as if "we" called her name. and the voice is so loud that it seems it comes from the screen. furthermore the way how the male voice says "EVE!" does not sound like any reaction adam would give to eve's words that she has the apple. it sounds more like "EVE, LOOK OVER HERE!"

so for me it is very certain that there is a third person, at least in the end of the video. i don't know if she screams "look out!" because of a solar flair or something, my guess would be that - like many occasions imply - subject 16 has gone mad and so she warns adam that he aproaches them, the madman subject 16 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mikeh1294
01-10-2010, 04:20 AM
Originally posted by DOS_SkywalkR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mikini:
@DOS_SkywalkR, We do see Adam's face, it was either posted in here a few pages back, or posted in another thread.

a link would be nice ^^
so what did he look like?


@InfernalTyrant, That's what I have been saying, the Animus shows the ancestors in the third person perspective, so therefore it makes sense that there are only two people, not a third person that we are using to look out of their eyes.
as i wrote:
someone screems "EVE!", and eve turns her face to the screen as if "we" called her name. and the voice is so loud that it seems it comes from the screen. furthermore the way how the male voice says "EVE!" does not sound like any reaction adam would give to eve's words that she has the apple. it sounds more like "EVE, LOOK OVER HERE!"

so for me it is very certain that there is a third person, at least in the end of the video. i don't know if she screams "look out!" because of a solar flair or something, my guess would be that - like many occasions imply - subject 16 has gone mad and so she warns adam that he aproaches them, the madman subject 16 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll have a look for the link, see if I can find it.

And if a person next to Adam and Eve shouts, why aren't they seen when the camera zooms out away from the building?

DOS_SkywalkR
01-10-2010, 04:25 AM
the camera zooms out before she says "adam, i have it", so he could have climbed up there in the meantime, they were standing right at the edge. he probably was directly behind them when they climbed up.

InfernalTyrant
01-10-2010, 04:36 AM
man i still find it weird and annoying that in my game eve doesn't say "look out!" in the end! i hate when something is being left incomplete. did anybody else have that happen?
Yeah, wtf? Eve doesn't say it on mine either. Could it be a console thing? Left out on the PS3? Which do you play on?

DOS_SkywalkR
01-10-2010, 04:48 AM
yeah, i play it on ps3, too.

that makes it even weirder ...

MissingLink2010
01-10-2010, 07:58 AM
HQ has given the go-ahead to extract the resource. (get the Piece of Eden)Agreed.


Negotiations are over. (negotiations?) F. (John F Kennedy) is planning to give the vote to everyone, Reason just doesn't work with someone like that.Universal Suffrage, Civil Rights etc. To me this ties closely with empowerment of former 'slaves', just as the Adam/Eve characters are alleged to. No offence to anyone intended. (Could it be, you know,empowerment...again?)

Oh and lets not forget - The truth - will set you free


I'll Send you the driver, We've trained him with PE2 (which one is that?)

We know that PE2 is also an apple, which when used creates 'phantoms' of the holder. This explains the magic bullet - because now its possible to have more than one shooter... all over the place in fact



The motorcade route is marked below. Once the target has been downed, Either by Ozwald or Z (who is Z?), use PE1 to sage a distraction.

Z is Jack Ruby, I suspect.

PE1 is an apple as well, this ties nicely with the 'phantom' reference again.

Make some kind of phantom appear around the slope i've marked with an X. Freak people out.
indeed. Some folks saw someone there, some folks didn't.

The driver (of F's car) will grab PE3 in the confusion."
PE3 is an apple as well,passed down with the presidency. From George Washington, through Lincoln, Roosevelt etc.

Brett_Master5
01-10-2010, 01:19 PM
DLTyrus: While you're the only one making sense in this thread. There is something that you're forgetting.

The glyph files, and 16's video is entitled The TRUTH. Not The ASSUMPTION.

In the video it clearly shows the shadowy figure of someone holding an Apple while the workers in the factory work. That clearly indicates some form of mind-enslavement.

Altair also shows resistance to the Apples powers at the end of AC1, with Al Maulim clearly stating "How... How are you doing that?" However, that resistance is not absolute because Altair says in the codexes that his power to resist it was diminishing which is why he sent the Apple to Cyprus and locked it away.

About the mating of Humans and TWCB:

If the statement "we created humans in our image" is to mean anything than it's clear that TWCB also have the desire of lust in them, much the same as having the desire for war.

There have been many instances throughout history where different races have mated with each other. The most significant being the relationships between slaves and slave owners on the American continent. I suppose in the end it doesn't matter when TWCB and Humans bred, it's the fact that they did.

I don't think that Adam and Eve were the first Assassins. I think they just happened to be the most significant. Hercules, Perseus (perhaps the most loved of TWCB), Archilles were also said to be Half-Human - Half God.

Now onto other posters:

Adam and eve are wearing clear plastic suits that have a glowing effect woven into the material.

To anyone that believes that there is a third person running behind Adam and eve I pose this question: Is Desmond running/flying behind Altair and Ezio while he relives their memories? No. The animus allows the person to view the memories in third person. Or as someone else said, you don't really inhabit the person, but the area around that person which is why the "camera" can be moved 360 degress.


A part of Adam's face is seen several times through the video. He has a full faced beard which is quite bushy. The person that says "Look out!" to Eve is Adam. It's as loud as it is because the camera zooms in close to them.

To the person who asked about the Sun and Earth glyph. The puzzle has nothing to do with the Pieces of Eden. All it's showing is how insignificantly small the Earth is compared to the Sun.

Finally to Missinglink2010:
"Z" in that file refers to Abraham Zapruder. The man that shot the grainy and disoriented film of the shooting. The file infers that Zapruder and Oswald worked in tandem. Oswald shooting from the rear, and Zapruder shooting with his disguised camera from the front, than disorienting himself to cover the shooting up.

DOS_SkywalkR
01-10-2010, 02:17 PM
@Brett_Master5:
that adam's face has a bushy beard is obvious. but when watching the video you should have realized that they intentionally don't give the viewer a clear look at his face.

in the ending when pausing the vid on youtube you can see it a little and i think that yes, it looks like desmond as i supposed.

and please, i hate it when people come around in threads like this and think they have the ultimate truth and everybody else is "not making sense", so please calm down.

after all we can only speculate, only ubisoft knows what they really are trying to say.

Benjaminrk
01-15-2010, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by brog011:
***Spoiler Alert***
This nuerotransmitter may help to extend life as those that came before had longevity to be named multiple gods from multiple cultures, this could provide a link for Ezio to be alive into the modern day, in secret, though I doubt Altair survived as the codex speaks of hm nearing the end of his days.
If Ezio is alive, he may have been driven insane by the perceived manipulation of the minerva hologram and centuries of contemplation. Confronting Desmond in the modern day at one of the mayan/incan temples they are caught in a fight to the death, as Ezio vents his frustration at Desmond before he dies. I see Desmond qouting Ezio his final rights in Italian before finding the secret of the temple.



... Well Ezio had to leave the place and have a desentent in order for Desmond to even excist.

Lazybeans
01-15-2010, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by DOS_SkywalkR:
in the ending when pausing the vid on youtube you can see it a little and i think that yes, it looks like desmond as i supposed.
I managed to catch the video at a decent view of his face, and he doesn't seem to look much like Desmond. Then again, it has the Animus screen artifacts on it, so it's hard to tell.

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/4356/adamp.png


And please, i hate it when people come around in threads like this and think they have the ultimate truth and everybody else is "not making sense", so please calm down.

after all we can only speculate, only ubisoft knows what they really are trying to say.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif And hopefully in AC3, they can reveal everything.

ShadowriverUB
01-16-2010, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Lazybeans:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DOS_SkywalkR:
in the ending when pausing the vid on youtube you can see it a little and i think that yes, it looks like desmond as i supposed.
I managed to catch the video at a decent view of his face, and he doesn't seem to look much like Desmond. Then again, it has the Animus screen artifacts on it, so it's hard to tell. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whatever it look like Desmond or not every true in bloodline Assassin probably contain Eva and Adam genetic memory and can reproduce this scene with Animus, since they are oldest Assassins.

Brett_Master5
01-17-2010, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by DOS_SkywalkR:
in the ending when pausing the vid on youtube you can see it a little and i think that yes, it looks like desmond as i supposed.


Adam doesn't look anything like Desmond. Not to mention the Truth video has nothing to do with Desmond at all. It's from sessions of a completely different person. Maybe, and I'm just going to go out on a limb here, Adam is what 16 is supposed to look like, I mean afterall people from the same line look similar as seen with Altair, Ezio and Desmond.

Not all Assassins can reproduce that image ShadowriverUB. The glyph titled: Behold Assassins! Children of both worlds! makes it clear that Adam and Eve are not the only Blood Assassins from the time of Eden.

Lazybeans
01-17-2010, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Brett_Master5:
Maybe, and I'm just going to go out on a limb here, Adam is what 16 is supposed to look like, I mean afterall people from the same line look similar as seen with Altair, Ezio and Desmond.
*Ding*

Whoa, I didn't think of that.

Jedted
01-17-2010, 09:14 PM
I regaurds to Adam an Eve being assassins, one possible theory that i don't think anyone's mentioned is that Adam was a "God" and Eve was the human.

While this is deffinatly a deviation from the established myth from the Bible it's possible when you consider that it was more than one of the "Gods" who bred with humans. This is all speculation ofcorse but if every single God known on Earth was a member of the ancient civilization, then it would stand to reason that the "God" who "created" Adam and Eve had a name at some point. Why can't Adam be one of the human loving "Gods" showed the Apple to Eve(i know it's the other way around but work with me) and started the revolution?

As for the theory that Desmond is decended from Adam, i don't think so. Even though the one word line you hear from him sounds eerily like Nolan North that's still not a lot to go on. Also, rembember that although Altair and Ezio have the same face as Desmond they don't sound anything like him.

younas456
01-18-2010, 11:15 AM
i have one question in the end of the movie there's some numbers... i think they are binary codes. and it say's
01000101 - 69
01000100 - 68
01000101 - 69
01001110 - 78

to gether they are 284.

i wonder what it means or am i wrong.? what do you think. sorry if it already have been posted

Lazybeans
01-18-2010, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by lion.cesar:
i wonder what it means or am i wrong.? what do you think. sorry if it already have been posted
Yeah, it means "EDEN."

ShadowriverUB
01-18-2010, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by lion.cesar:
i have one question in the end of the movie there's some numbers... i think they are binary codes. and it say's

You ***** in 1/3 to decode it, you need to change them to hex and match with ASCII table

GAINS10
01-18-2010, 09:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-bibDttnQE is a video linkat 25-27 sec into it pause and tell me what you see.
Plus at the end eve does say lookout but on my ps3 it only says EVE! at the end maybe your seeing through the Assassins eyes and Adam and Eve are not even assassins at all....

mikeh1294
01-19-2010, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by GAINS10:
at the end maybe your seeing through the Assassins eyes and Adam and Eve are not even assassins at all....

Try reading the topic. In AC the people are always viewed in 3rd person, so therefore it must be either Adam or Eve that Subject 16 was related to.

Also, at the end of the video, the camera zooms out and shows just two people on the roof, Adam and Eve.

TK Amaterasu
01-19-2010, 02:21 PM
So i thought that Adam and Eve are like assassins or summat cos they were pretty much free-running like the assassins do

TK Amaterasu
01-19-2010, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by TKanaAmaterasu:
So i thought that Adam and Eve are like assassins or summat cos they were pretty much free-running like the assassins do

I have to admit...this game is interesting...it should be a damn film...Hell they did Prince of Persia...now writing fanfictions is gonna be hard...The truth video will be explained in death...but how does anyone know what happens to Ezio after i read first page...Ezio might not die fighting Desmond...he is like 5 centuries old if he lived...

younas456
01-20-2010, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Lazybeans:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lion.cesar:
i wonder what it means or am i wrong.? what do you think. sorry if it already have been posted
Yeah, it means "EDEN." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks and thaks to shadowriver http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif i've learnt something new today :P

aud1tore
01-29-2010, 12:57 AM
how do you guys know that desmond even fights ezio? where is this **** coming from?

but all these theories are very interesting. but eve seems to be wearing a red article of clothing on her arm, which is ususllt fashioned by the assassins.

CEO_of_Abstergo
01-29-2010, 07:29 AM
It's all just speculation based on what the plot line has so far provided. The apple or other PoE might provide immortality to its beholder for example. Altair wrote in his last codex page about being old and about to die and wanting to use his apple one last time - could he have became immortal, or similarly Ezio when he comes to have it? That is the basis of wondering if either anscestor will end up being around in modern times with Desmond. I myself think it would be kind of a cheesey plot turn. I would rather find out that subj 16 turns out to be Desmond's long-lost father or brother.

TheDarkKnigg1
02-01-2010, 11:34 PM
PPL. Calm down.

Stop making so many assumptions.

Even though it is fun to speculate and try to look really hard for clues that may lead to other things, you can't go and start thinking those clues are facts.

IMO.
Adam and Eve stole a POE, they were running away from either TWCB or a solar flare, or both. The person who "owns" the memory is subject 16, not some other assassin. Memories are always displayed in a 3rd person view so it makes sense. Desmond is not related to either Adam or Eve, or subject 16, as far as we know.

Sometimes you guys are trying way too hard to understand a video when it isn't supposed to be a riddle or anything.

But keep making these cool theories because they are entertaining. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

goldenarm009
02-04-2010, 03:32 AM
PPL. Calm down.

Stop making so many assumptions.

Even though it is fun to speculate and try to look really hard for clues that may lead to other things, you can't go and start thinking those clues are facts.

IMO.
Adam and Eve stole a POE, they were running away from either TWCB or a solar flare, or both. The person who "owns" the memory is subject 16, not some other assassin. Memories are always displayed in a 3rd person view so it makes sense. Desmond is not related to either Adam or Eve, or subject 16, as far as we know.

Sometimes you guys are trying way too hard to understand a video when it isn't supposed to be a riddle or anything.

But keep making these cool theories because they are entertaining. Smile


Firstly, I kind of agree with you. I read everything Xion said and while I think he basically nailed the plot, it is mostly based on conjecture and educated (albeit very well researched) guesses.

We are discussing it as if it were fact, and you are right, the game hasn't come out yet so nothing is "fact". But you must agree this seems like the most logical direction the series will take.

Second, "way to hard...its not a riddle or anything" you couldn't be more wrong. When you end a video game with such open ends (not as open as AC1, thankfully) the truth video is all you have to go on, obviously you are going to start coming up with theories as to what it means....it doesn't just mean nothing.

Third, I'd love to hear from Xion again on in this thread as his posts are quite fascinating to read and I enjoy them very much.

and finally "they were running away from either TWCB or a solar flare" made me laugh out loud. you really think you can outrun a solar flare? and that solar flare happened at the exact time they escaped with the apple? haha nah Xion is right man it makes SO much sense. go back and read his post. its like he's writing for UBI

goldenarm009
02-04-2010, 03:37 AM
and by xion i mean Xios1986 haha. its 5:35 am these things happen

TheDarkKnigg1
02-04-2010, 06:00 PM
So if a solar flare occured you wouldn't try to run? lol ok.

Anyways, i guess you're right about how it is a riddle/mystery etc... But i just find it annoying when people make all these assumptions then other people assume they are fact.

Blackglasswar
02-05-2010, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by TheDarkKnigg1:
So if a solar flare occured you wouldn't try to run? lol ok.

Anyways, i guess you're right about how it is a riddle/mystery etc... But i just find it annoying when people make all these assumptions then other people assume they are fact.

Thank you! Someone who believes that we can only use facts to make our arguments... based entirely on what we are shown, told, hear or read from DIRECT sources.

Though truth be told (sorry for the pun) can we believe all that we are shown... should we be questioning "the truth"????

oooooooooh.... groovy man!

KZarr
02-05-2010, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by TheDarkKnigg1:
PPL. Calm down.

Stop making so many assumptions.

Even though it is fun to speculate and try to look really hard for clues that may lead to other things, you can't go and start thinking those clues are facts.
Yeah too much spefculation here. Xios1986's posts are the only ones I trust. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/images/smilies/ninja.gif

BeckettMiyamoto
02-06-2010, 11:09 AM
What? you guys don't believe me either? I had as much historical and scientific evidence that Xios did. We were on the same trail until I stopped logging on. haha but envy aside. All of the past few pages up until my last entry have been very interesting. I have however, lost all interest in the Adam and Eve crap so please drop the stuff about the clothing and whether theyre assassins and what not.

Now back on the end of the world and the other truth stuff, You dont need to know about the slaves in the building, you dont need to know about who Adam and Eve are, for their names are clearly given. What you DO need to know is the location. Here is my question that I would like to pose to you friends, WHERE are they, and WHEN is it that they are there?
If you listen closely to everything given to you in the game, you should (as I have) come up with two answers. They are clearly just guesses or yes, assumptions, but I believe they might be able to get us at most, a step further.
Good luck Fellow Assassins.

iKoako
02-06-2010, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by TheDarkKnigg1:
Desmond is not related to either Adam or Eve, or subject 16, as far as we know.


If Desmond wasn't related to Subject 16 how could he have a DNA match with him. They both er, 'experienced' Ezio's birth so they must be related to Ezio. Meaning they're related to each other somehow.

CEO_of_Abstergo
02-08-2010, 02:22 PM
Hey iKoako - if you want to read through the very LOOOOONG arguments about whether Subj16 and Desmond are related, see the post "Desmond and Subj16 what's the connection" - beware though its like 8 or 9 pages. I agree with you that they are SHOWN to be related.

Blackglasswar
02-08-2010, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by iKoako:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheDarkKnigg1:
Desmond is not related to either Adam or Eve, or subject 16, as far as we know.


If Desmond wasn't related to Subject 16 how could he have a DNA match with him. They both er, 'experienced' Ezio's birth so they must be related to Ezio. Meaning they're related to each other somehow. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

agreed - though welcome to the "they are related" side of the argument.

On the truth note... is that binary at the last frame of the video??? Does anyone know what it means if it is binary???

godsmack_darius
02-08-2010, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by CEO_of_Abstergo:
Hey iKoako - if you want to read through the very LOOOOONG arguments about whether Subj16 and Desmond are related, see the post "Desmond and Subj16 what's the connection" - beware though its like 8 or 9 pages. I agree with you that they are SHOWN to be related.

I do not approve http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Im just kidding buddy, no hard feelings.

Although...I dont think they are related.

SWJS
02-08-2010, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Blackglasswar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheDarkKnigg1:
So if a solar flare occured you wouldn't try to run? lol ok.

Anyways, i guess you're right about how it is a riddle/mystery etc... But i just find it annoying when people make all these assumptions then other people assume they are fact.

Thank you! Someone who believes that we can only use facts to make our arguments... based entirely on what we are shown, told, hear or read from DIRECT sources.

Though truth be told (sorry for the pun) can we believe all that we are shown... should we be questioning "the truth"????

oooooooooh.... groovy man! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find that first statement amusing, because there is no concrete proof Desmond and 16 are related, it is an assumption.

To be fair and truth be told, AC2's plot and supporting plot are all one big Mind Fart, am I right or am I right? To many people, the Vault message could have been considered a "Big Lipped Alligator Moment", even though it is brought up again later on and it does add to the plot.

There's no real way of knowing every detail, but this is done on purpose I believe. The more plot threads left hanging, the more room we have to imagine what we think is true in-universe. It'll probably be this way in AC3 too, unless the writers decide to fill in the plot holes and wrap it all up, which could be the case.

That being said, every person is entitled to his/her own opinion, and it doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong, the debate lots of fun, and at the end you learn a lot of new stuff.

Originally posted by CEO_of_Abstergo:
Hey iKoako - if you want to read through the very LOOOOONG arguments about whether Subj16 and Desmond are related, see the post "Desmond and Subj16 what's the connection" - beware though its like 8 or 9 pages. I agree with you that they are SHOWN to be related. I will disagree. I would avoid the thread, simply because after page 5 it's all just me repeating myself and plaguedoctor over and over, with replies that mostly consist of "but the nucleotides lit up" "the animus records DNA" etc. etc.

While both sides provide strong evidence, nothing is ever really proven as no matter how good the evidence was, there would always be some time of flaw contradicting the argument, and as such, nothing is ever really proven or learned.

It's really just one big mess of post after post trying to disprove the other posts, and there's nothing to really gain from it other than a large headache.

Though keep in mind I dropped the argument because I was tired of repeating myself as well as another forum member over and over with actual facts taken from the games, that I just gave up out of exhaustion, so I did not necessarily lose the argument. I just thought I'd point that out.

Originally posted by Blackglasswar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iKoako:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheDarkKnigg1:
Desmond is not related to either Adam or Eve, or subject 16, as far as we know.


If Desmond wasn't related to Subject 16 how could he have a DNA match with him. They both er, 'experienced' Ezio's birth so they must be related to Ezio. Meaning they're related to each other somehow. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

agreed - though welcome to the "they are related" side of the argument.

On the truth note... is that binary at the last frame of the video??? Does anyone know what it means if it is binary??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It is binary code.

It translates to "E-D-E-N", or Eden, which most likely means the Garden of Eden.

TheDarkKnigg1
02-08-2010, 09:02 PM
I think that Desmond and Subject 16 are not related. I think that they both had an ancestor alive in the same time period (1400-1500's)and that's how Lucy found a memory match, not a DNA match.

PLEASE DO NOT ARGUE WITH ME BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO START AN ARGUMENT, I JUST WANTED TO STATE MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER.

godsmack_darius
02-09-2010, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by TheDarkKnigg1:
I think that Desmond and 16 are not related. I think that they both had an ancestor alive in the AC2 time period and that's how Lucy found a memory match.

PLEASE DO NOT ARGUE WITH ME BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO START AN ARGUMENT, I JUST WANTED TO STATE MY OPINION ON THIS.

I approve

GolSkii
02-10-2010, 04:44 PM
theres a way they could be related as i stated in earlier pages. altair had 2 or more sons stated in codex page 29. do not rule out the fact they could be related somehow.

Poc2k8
02-10-2010, 06:25 PM
Ok.... I honestly cant believe you people still havnt listened to me lol

DESMOND IS EZIO!!!!

Assassin's Creed 1 and 2 are both loosely based on religion, and in many religions across europe and asia they believe a person gets reincarnated over and over again until they reach full enlightenment (finish there objectives etc..)

How do you explain the assassin abilities being passed onto desmond?

A human can be taught how to punch and jump but a human CANNOT be taught a god given ability such as eagle vision. (which probably was given to desmond in his first life)

And i will bet anyone a tenner that the animus is not a machine to find ancestors memorys, it is indeed a machine to unlock the persons previous life's memorys. Which will probably be revealed in the next installation.

And here is the biggest hint ever...

are you ready?....

you sure?.....

positive?......

...............DESMOND HAS THE SAME SCAR ON HIS LIP WHAT EZIO GOT FROM FIGHTING!!!!

1. Go start assassin's creed 2 from the beginning, notice how Ezio does NOT! have a scar?

2. Keep watching until the fight cutscene when he gets hit in the face.

3. afterwards when hes been cleaned up by the doctor check this... HE HAS A SCAR ON HIS LIP!

4. the next time your playing as desmond zoom in as much as possible and look! SCAR!

Now here is a short explanation to anyone who doesnt understand,

All creatures, human and other animals will pass on certian dna strands to there children and to there grand-children. These dna strands are standard things such as skin colour, facial features such as a big nose, blue eyes etc etc....

They DO NOT pass on things they got from fighting!

Im pretty sure i wasnt born with a scar on my right arm where my grandad was wounded in world war 2. lol


Go check google, goto google and type in "assassins creed desmond" then click on images, then goto page 2 and down at the bottom theres a couple of images u can choose from, all of them show Desmond close up so you can see the scar.

I am soooo sorry if this post sounds cocky and sarcastic, honestly dont mean it too. Just a little bored of hearing random theories when the truth is sitting infront of you lol and iv mentioned it twice before and no one took any notice.

EDIT:

1. dont you think its a bit wierd how the bad guy in desmonds time (forgot his name lol the scientist dude) resembled the bad guy in assassins creed 1? (forgot his name too lol) resembles him tooooooooooooooooo much to be a coincidence!

2. and regarding the truth video.... Havnt you ever noticed that the video plays in 1st person view? Like your one person looking at eve? Which points to my previous prediction!

The reason its in 1st person view mode is because ITS DESMOND! looking through DESMONDS eyes! in a previous life.

as i said above ^^ theres roughly a handful of religions from europe and asia what believe you get reincarnated over and over again until you complete your objective or your purpose. DESMOND in a previous previous previous (u get the idea) life was the one who helped steal the apple, i dont know what he has to do with the pieces of eden but he keeps getting reincarnated because he has unfinished business regarding it, weather it be to get it back and take it back to eden or what i dont know.

GolSkii
02-10-2010, 06:34 PM
he got eagle vision through altair by being in the animus to long. (sorry bad spelling if i did mess up?)

Poc2k8
02-10-2010, 06:39 PM
thats what the scientists believe, but they are scientists not religous folk.

For all we know, he had eagle vision already but didnt know how to use it and through the animus it unlocked it.

How can he possibly recieve a power such as eagle vision through a machine?

Hang on, ill go plug myself into my xbox and hope i recieve eagle vision... lol


and how do u explain the scar?

GolSkii
02-10-2010, 06:45 PM
im just saying he had eagle vision at the end of AC1 explain that then? i believe Ezio is also desmond. i mean how would the ending end how it was if you weren't desmond in the first place?

Poc2k8
02-10-2010, 06:48 PM
My memory isnt that great lol but if i remember correctly,

In the first Assassins creed AND in the booklet what comes inside the game box, it says that desmond was living in a secret community when he was younger sounding like a community of assassins, they were training him and teaching him things BUT he left the community and went into the world on his own as a bar tender i believe?

maybe this is why he doesnt know how to use eagle vision until the animus unlocks it. Because he didnt stay in the community and recieve full training

and the many religions i mentioned above, also believe you cannot remember your previous lifes as a punishment for doing something wrong (stealing the apple), but the animus allows desmond to remember

GolSkii
02-10-2010, 06:51 PM
he lived on a farm when he was younger from what i remember and ran away when he was 16. not sure about any secret community.

Poc2k8
02-10-2010, 07:00 PM
this is quoted from assassins creed 2 booklet.


" Desmond has trouble trusting others. His parents were incredibly overprotective, essentially imprisoning him within there community, swearing that it was for his own good"

eloki444
02-10-2010, 07:02 PM
A human can be taught how to punch and jump but a human CANNOT be taught a god given ability such as eagle vision. (which probably was given to desmond in his first life)

Desmond got eagle vision & his assassin skills from the bleeding effect,remember the achevment you got when you get back in the animus, which caused that laps where Desmond is back in acre as Altir,also what killed sub. 16.

And more importantly why would he go back in the animus if he was Ezio? Wouldn't he already know what happend to Ezio if was Ezio?

You're try to make sence of clues that aren't there.

GolSkii
02-10-2010, 07:05 PM
what i think he's trying to get at is that, the memories are dormant. the memories are like the DNA passed on it stays with you but you can't remember until something like the animus. i mean if you think about it. how do they even get back to the time they need? they searched memories and DNA.

Poc2k8
02-10-2010, 07:06 PM
as stated above, religions believe a person who is reincarnated cannot remember a previous life.

And the animus unlocks those memories.

The bleeding effect is described to us by scientists in the game, scientists are reknown for believing only what they see and nothing religous.

Its possible the bleeding effect is acctually his own previous lifes entwining into his current reality.

And you mention nothing regarding the scar?

I keep reverting back to this because its the most obvious in your face clue. Why would an ancestor have the exact same scar on the exact same side of his face

Poc2k8
02-10-2010, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by golem22:
what i think he's trying to get at is that, the memories are dormant. the memories are like the DNA passed on it stays with you but you can't remember until something like the animus. i mean if you think about it. how do they even get back to the time they need? they searched memories and DNA.

exactly!

eloki444
02-10-2010, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Poc2k8:
And you mention nothing regarding the scar?

But doesen't the revelation of TWTCB rule out all religions, or now is it all but a couple in Europe and Asia?

EDIT:It's a symbol left their by the writers to show the simalaritys between the 2 of them.

Poc2k8
02-10-2010, 07:15 PM
ok im going to stop reading your silly replys now max lol

It is physically impossible for someone to pass on something what happened to the ancestor after birth.

The scar was recieved by ezio in a fight and is IMPOSSIBLE to be passed on to desmond.

Thats like saying.... "a woman gets a boob job and makes her breasts the biggest breasts in the world, then has a female child, the child grew up and also had the same fake boobs her mother had"

Stop talking nonsense max and go assassinate someone if your an assassin lol

GolSkii
02-10-2010, 07:21 PM
you have to admit its weird that ezio gets a scar just as the game starts from desmond in the animus.

eloki444
02-10-2010, 07:24 PM
He's a bartender, mabey he got in a fight with a drunk with a broken bottle.

Poc2k8
02-10-2010, 07:29 PM
altair has the same scar also!

I understand what your saying though how the creators of the game could have done that purposly just to show the connection between the characters.

But somehow i dont think so.... The developers are very brainy with there conspiracys in the game and there story telling. Remember how they got everyone wondering whats going on at the end of AC1?

i wouldnt put it past them!

the doctor who cleans up ezio after the fight says something regarding leaving a scar on his face (cant remember exaclty and cant be bothered looking at the cutscene im pretty sure someone will)

its like hes destined to have the same scar in each life

xBranigan79
02-11-2010, 03:39 PM
I sort of have to agree with MAX on this thread. As he said above, and if you pay attention to what happens and what manerva says you will most certainly understand what max is saying. First of all she starts out talking to Ezio, but as she is talking to him notice how she isnt looking at him. She is looking at the first person view (you/desmond). Then if that werent enough as Ezio keeps asking what is going on.....she basically tells him to shut up b/c he has done his part and he is not needed anymore. Then you says something to the effect of "Desmond i know you can hear me, or if you are listening" and Ezio says "Desmond", "who is this Desmond." Now i dont know about you but if someone says ur name then dont you think you would know that that is you and not someone else. Bottom line they are two people who ancestors and who are realted. But, thats it...not the same person.

Although i do think it will be interesting to find out what Ezio thinks about all this now that he has seen the vault and heard what Manerva has to say!

goldenarm009
02-11-2010, 11:33 PM
poc 2k8 man i don't think you have a good understanding of the game. it is very confusing so i can understand that but dude, learning a skill through living the life of your ancestor via the animus is nothing like your "boob job" analogy. eagle vision is something in his DNA, inherited through his bloodlines. He is related to altair, but not his reincarnation.

my point: the animus is not for people to re-live their past lives. It is pretty well established at this point im surprised this has to be explained to you.

mojsarn
02-12-2010, 07:27 AM
Poc, you say that it is impossible to be able to learn something from the Animus, but it is because of the bleeding effect, or/and the fact that Desmond relived the memories of Ezio when he himself learned to fight and so on.

So it is just like Desmond have memories of the training himself, the only difference that he never used his body.

And do not say that it is physically impossible to learn anything from a machine, its fiction, everything is possible.

It is just as likely to happend in real life as your religion.

And about the scar, my opinion is that it just shows the resemblens as you said but dismissed.

BIack0ps
02-12-2010, 12:13 PM
im only on page 2 of this thread and my brain is already making sparks.... cool stuff guys, I almost thought all this stuff was real while reading through it lol.

godsmack_darius
02-12-2010, 07:15 PM
What an idiotic theory, come on? Have you ever wondered the scars are just symbolism, and the developers of the game put them their on purpose, The scar represents them, dont take it too damn seriously lol

rogue-penguin
02-13-2010, 04:11 AM
Max when I read the first few words of your post I thought it would be an intelligent post but holy crap do we need a lesson in biology. First off scars can not be a family trait. Sorry that doesn't ever happen... ever. It is there simply to form a physical currently nonessential link between characters.


Originally posted by max170892:
all the memory is passed down we just have no way to access it unless in times of deep stress which goes to your fight or flight response, i personally know that one of my ancestors had to be part of the hashishins (real assasins) as my fight and flight reponses are mixed together, maing me extremely agile, yet strong and smart when the situation occurs i have zero control over this though for all i know i'm a sleeper agent that has nothign to do with the assasins

Spelling mistakes aside (I would have to assume you are either 12 or a non native speaker of English so I will excuse this) this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. First off there is no known way to this date to access memories or physical abilities of ancestors no matter how much stress is induced.

When you say your flight or flight (you actually say fight and flight... kay) responses are mixed together you obviously have no idea what the fight or flight means. Basically your brain goes HOLY $!@# I AM ABOUT TO DIE and gives you a poopton of adrenaline, halts non essential processes (Digesting etc.), increases heartrate / breathing, raises awareness etc. Fight or flight then is chosen... literally fight the cause of the stress or flight... RUN. Unless I am an idiot and misunderstood that by saying they are combined you meant you are able to simultaneously run from your attacker and fight them.

This has absolutely nothing to do with your ancestors. It is a survival mechanism that has nothing I repeat NOTHING to do with ancestors. For all you know your ancestors could have been dairy farmers and that would make your flight or flight the same as if you were Sam Fisher's son.

Source: Psych Major with BioPsych knowledge.

tl;dr No Max it's a universal survival tool not something your grandfather gave you.

If this was a troll... Well played.

godsmack_darius
02-13-2010, 09:21 AM
^^ Thank you!! Probably the first "first post" that has good meaning to it I have seen in 2 years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


I approve of this post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



And again, I think the developers purposly put the scars their for synbolism, not because they getting reincarnated, this game basically kicks religion in the face (no offence) so why would they follow it like that, even though reicarnation is a pagen/wicca belief which is what Altair followed if you read the codexs

goldenarm009
02-14-2010, 01:43 AM
stop writing in this forum. you are an idiot. happy valentines day!

love,
me

godsmack_darius
02-14-2010, 08:05 AM
@golderarm009: keep it civil bro, he doesnt deserve that, No one wants any trouble here.



Happy Valentines day http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

goldenarm009
02-14-2010, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by godsmack_darius:
What an idiotic theory, come on

You literally just got done calling his theory idiotic, I just connected the dots and assumed that he was in fact an idiot, so relax

And rogue-penguin that was a pretty entertaining reply.

Also I wanted to bring up one of the glyphs. "The seeds were planted as two worlds became one. Behold, the assassins, the children of two worlds". If taken literally, one can infer that at some point a man and a God had a baby together. If you take it a step further, assassins must have inherited god-like traits, which we assume is eagle-vision.

The way I interpret this is that the "Gods" were advanced humans. Evolutionary beings that developed far more advanced bodies, minds, and abilities to adapt to the environment they lived in.

So I guess my question is this. Did these advanced beings evolve and come here from another planet, or did they evolve like Xios1986 said over a long period of time on earth?

I tend to think they are other worldly. If the advanced beings created humans as slaves, how come there are fossil records of early humans and links to how we evolved naturally from primates?

I believe these beings came to this planet and enslaved the human race using the Pieces of Eden. Adam and Eve were the offspring of one of these God/human relationships, and therefore more immune to the effects of the PoE. That is how they were able to escape.

We can't assume they were the only two to escape, because 2 people can't populate an entire planet, their grandkids would all be inbred and have to breed with each other.

So what happens after the Truth video? Adam and Eve must have been able to free a large portion of the population to fight the great wars Minerva talks about.

Eventually we must have won this war, but I doubt that we killed every single God. Minerva says something along the lines of "there aren't many of us left we are dying out". And I also doubt that Gods and humans could live together peacefully after the Gods surrendered. Therefore, they must have escaped to another planet.

If they have the technology to travel through space, it might be safe to say they have used it before, possibly to get to earth in the first place.

Yikes. Kind of scattered and rambling but trying to get this thread goin again

godsmack_darius
02-14-2010, 09:54 PM
They are basically normal humanoids, like us, we are techniqually not humans, the hominoids are the pre humans, since they are from this planet unlike us.

And they are based off the Annunaki, they came from Nibiru

CEO_of_Abstergo
02-16-2010, 09:49 AM
The Anunnaki, the Elohim, the Nephilim, and ThoseWhoCameBefore are all names for the same thing but from different sources - they are the race of beings who supposedly did a genetic upgrade to monkeymen/cavemen in order to yield humans with conscious existence that would make good slaves to their labors. Religions and myths across the world and times are theoried to be the offspring of this god-race.

Note the ingrained subservience in traditional religions, the rules and needs to worship lords and masters and canonic truth. Note the intertwined serpents in the cadaceus (the hermetic staff of Egypt that became the modern medicine symbol) and how it resembles the double-helix of DNA. Note the evolutionary gap in fossil record between phases toward homo sapiens. Note that even across isolated disparate religions/societies across the world and time, pyramid stone monument structures are common to all of them.

What is also common are genesis stories with long lists of named "gods" and their offspring, telling how our anscestors displeased the creator and got kicked out like rebellious teenagers. "The Truth" is that it happened the way subj16's video shows you. That's pretty different from typical sunday school teachings.


What's in common with so many ancient belief systems - and now this game's plot points - is that humans were "made" by some "god(s)"... TO BE SLAVES! What a downer, ay?

Thenewprince7
02-17-2010, 09:07 AM
Xios......can we be friends!!!

andylunique@gmail.com


Originally posted by Xios1986:
oh ok, oops, lol. fair enough.

I've spent most of the day picking through the Glyph puzzles and i'm writting out an analysis of everything i've found.... WOW theres some absolutely amazing stuff hidden in them. If you take every little point and research into it, the pictures, the people, the dates e.t.c. their all connected and they all fall accurately in real life events. Theres also some amazing stuff about strange unexplained things happening through history.

For example the Hexadecimal cipher on the photo at Brest, france (puzzle 4) reads "Antikythera Mechanism, much older than 150 B.C.E." look into the Antikythera Mechanism.

the caption of the same picture states "Members of the second Infantry division Advance under Machine gun fire into the outskirts of breast france 1944."after a little research i found out this was one of the begining moves of of the Invasion of Normandy, France. After a little more research i came across this:
"(7 June 1944). The 15th FA Bn fought for 73 straight days ***in support of the 2nd Infantry Division*** throughout Normandy without a break. Their first break in the combat action came on 19 August 1944, when the 15th FA Bn was ordered to move 220 miles and occupy firing positions for the battle against the German fortress at Brest, France. The battle that ensued was bloody and hard fought by all elements of the 2nd Infantry Division including the 15th FA Bn. On 26 September 1944, five officers and 42 enlisted men of the 15th FA Bn were presented Bronze Star Medals, by the Division Commander, for their actions since D Day +1" ( - 73 straight days! then traveled 220 miles and jumped right into that HUGE battle at Brest (the picture is of the 2nd infantry devision arriving at the battle if Brest) without a days rest!?!)



In the same puzzle is a picture of "Burning Viet cong base camp, my tho, Vietnam, 1968" - i researched into the picture and found an original with the caption "In the foreground is Private First Class Raymond Rumpa, St Paul, Minnesota, C Company, 3rd Battalion, 47th Infantry, 9th Infantry Division, with 45-pound 90mm recoiless rifle. 04/05/1968 Photograph Courtesy of the National Archives & Records Administration"

I found out the Tet Offensive began in 1968 and found that "My Tho" played an important role in the Tet offensive, which is essentially one of the majour operations of the vietnam war.

I also found "in the I Corps area on 12 February 1968, Battery C, 1st Battalion, 40th Artillery (105-mm), while in support of a South Vietnamese unit, ***became the first US Army artillery unit to fire improved conventional munitions in combat***. The target was 40 to 50 North Vietnamese troops in the open. The battery fired 54 rounds of the new ammunition, resulting in 14 enemy killed." - (possible influence of PoE? long shot, but interesting connection non the less...)

encoded as a cypher is also the name of an ancient Indian City that has been found to have suffered a NUCLEAR EXPLOSION in the year 150 B.C.E.?!?!?! - real world stuff i'm talking about here! i've got a really interesting article on it.

theres is also encoded in the final picture the mention of "Sumerian. Me 23"... Sumerian 'ME' are a set of attributes assigned to humanity by the Gods hey can be as abstract as an emotion, or a thing, like art. However they take the 'form' of an object so rather than a list (like the ten commandments) there are actually, according to this belief, actual 'objects' the gods granted to humanity to represent traits and/or capabilities e.t.c.

ME 23 is 'weapons' and the definition of weapons is "a tool used to apply force for the purpose of causing harm or damage"

the quote at the top of the image the cypher is in is "This MONSTER did not come from man." - In the context of the whole puzzle, which is conveying the force of brutality and the aspect of 'weaponry/war' in our reality. It is implying that this aspect of reality was implanted by the 'proto-beings' an analogy is drawn as "Sumerian ME 23"

I've also found out that there are at least 4 of the 'apple' type PoE's and they each have a specific atribute in as much as the force/influence they exert has a specific 'nature', the 4th of the Apple types 'is essentially' this ME 23 (the concept of war/weaponry)...

GOD theres just SO MUCH MORE!!! i could go on and on and on...

I'm going to be really on this missions and i'm gonna put it all together in a big massive compilation, i might even have to turn it into a website/wiki type thing.

This game is freekishly well made. its INSANE!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TheDarkKnigg1
02-17-2010, 06:37 PM
^That's some really cool stuff. I love all of this hidden secret stuff. I also love theories about all of this unexplainable stuff, it really makes you think.

godsmack_darius
02-18-2010, 02:24 PM
Sumerian "Me"? Sumarians worshipped the Annunaki. This game had Annunaki written all over it

Dyer_Maker66
02-19-2010, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Danteire:
So, first off, well done Xios. Lots of great info there. Hope I can offer a bit more details as I have observed.

I think the Apple is more than a control device, I think it acts as an informational conduit, able to pass knowledge to the workers. How else would basic humans be able to craft the Pieces of Eden so well, think how complex they would be and anyone making it would remember what they did unless the skills and info were short term memory implants! Pure specualtion on my part though.

As for Adam, Eve and the human survivors weathering the solar flare, Minerva talks about how some of her race anticipated the flare and constructed the vaults to either create a field to block out the magnetic force or at least survive the ensuing apocalypse, Look at the map displayed from the Apple at the end of AC1, some are in the ocean (Atlantis??). I think Eden, the proto-humans and Adam&Eve all took place at the point when all the continents were stil joined together, and the polar field switch caused them to split and seperate. So the Apple couldnt help Adam & Eve to survive, but the knowledge contained within led them to one where they and the other humans who survived took shelter.

These are what Abstergo is hunting, and why Lucy goes "We were so wrong" at the start of AC2 as you break out, they thought they were repositories of technology and more Pieces of Eden but are in fact safehouses. And now Desmond has to reactivate them (look at how the Apple only displays the map when Altair approaches it at the end, could it be genetically locked to prevent non-protos accessing the info??) Now whether they act as bomb shelters or more (I think by Minervas description they will shield Earth from the solar flare when all operational) but couldnt reach their full potential, maybe by Adam & Eve capturing one and ousting the proto-humans there!!

Yeah, most of that was probably nonsense, but meh.
And I too was freaked when Minerva broke the forth wall and starts talking to you and not Ezio. Last time I was that scared by a game was playing MGS2 at 3 in the morning, saying Im tired, should stop playing and go to sleep.....only for Col. Campbell to say "You look tired, maybe you should stop playing and get some rest" a minute later.......[/

I completely agree, though my entire house being dark and it being 4 in the morning didn't help much either.

SquarePolo27
02-19-2010, 11:38 AM
Does "Session 12" give anybody a clue? Maybe abstergo made him go in the animus to look at that memory?

RedEverett11
02-19-2010, 07:59 PM
did any one notice at the end it showed binary code someone should figure out what those zeros and ones mean they probably will reveal something

SquarePolo27
02-20-2010, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by RedEverett11:
did any one notice at the end it showed binary code someone should figure out what those zeros and ones mean they probably will reveal something

It is a binery code spelling out "Edan"

iKoako
02-20-2010, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Sticker704:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RedEverett11:
did any one notice at the end it showed binary code someone should figure out what those zeros and ones mean they probably will reveal something

It is a binery code spelling out "Edan" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not Edan. It was "Eden"

O6EvolutionIXMR
02-20-2010, 06:26 PM
Just incase anyone overlooked it, here is my theory in connection with Atlantis which includes a video I made quickly. I just updated the page yesterday, so be sure to check out the first post.

The Truth - Atlantis Connection? UPDATED!!! (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/2261050238)

Please leave a comment, I'd really like to know what you guys think. Especially on the new stuff.

Dergo218
03-23-2010, 07:05 PM
Ok so, I just have to say what I think is going on in the "The Truth" clip.

Lets start with, I believe that it's impossible for subject 16 and subject 17 (Desmond) to have a strong blood relation. And also I'm rather curious about previous subjects... subject 15, 14 etc. Surely they must have been tasted before aswell otherwise why not just call Subject 16, Subject 1 and Desmond, Subject 2.

My guess is that Abstergo tried to root out the most complete memory/blood relation connected to the Pieces of Eden. Anyway this isn't the main topic I wanted to discuss.

In the truth clip you keep seeing "animus artifacts" popping up, little "graphics bugs" That happen ever so often during the game aswell. And during the entire clip Adams face is pretty much hidden from us, we get glimpses but thats about it. I believe they did this because of the simple fact that he is not important.

Anyway, up on the roof something really extraordinary happens. Let me explain why this is extraordinary:

Listen to the voice that says "Eve!" it sounds very much like Desmonds voice. Does this mean that it's Desmond in the memory speaking? I think not. Because even if Altaïr and Ezio have similar traits to Desmond, they have never had the same voice as Desmond. So the third person isn't physically there. So what do we make of this? We know it's not Desmonds memory (the clip). I believe that Subject 16 sees a moment in the past where Eve and Adam "meet" Desmond from the future. It sounds really out there doesn't it? BUT we have seen this once in the game before! In the vault, Desmond visits the past and Merva communicates with Desmond. Only that this time it's the other way around. Desmond communicates with Eve. Think about it we have it already suggested to us that communication through the past and the animus is possible. It does explain why there is no third pressence on the roof when the camera suddenly poofs and is zoomed out, viewing the rooftop. So how does this connect Subject 16? Well quite possibly his ancestor is Adam and we see the whole communication between Desmond and Eve in the clip as a sort of third party observant.

As much as I believe this to be a very interesting theory to build on and also a not to far-fetched theory, I also realize that I have a hard time trusting game companies except for maybe Bioware to execute such a remarkable story well enough to be told in a good manner.
No I might not be correct but I think the actual point of the truth clip was to hint on just how much of a part Desmond really has in it all.

But anyway why would Desmond try to communicate with Eve? Well we all know him as a prophet and we know he's been told to try to avoid another disaster, I believe that he's there to either prevent the first disaster to happen, by warning Eve or he's trying to find out where what happened to the Piece of Eden that they stole. We were never told that it's the Apple that is the one we possess in the end AND we know there are more than one Apple.

A few other notes however, I do wonder why all the other humans in the clip are bald while Adam and Eve have hair. And I also wonder why Eve has what sorta looks like a small pouch attached to her arm.

And a question for you all, is it just me or was there a Piece of Eden object in the puzzles that was a piece of fabric or cloth?

godsmack_darius
03-30-2010, 08:35 PM
Desmond didnt "visist" the past, Minerva just knew he would eventualy use the animus and see her, so she used Ezios memory for storage for desmond

Calling him a prophet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dm1les
03-31-2010, 10:03 PM
I'm not sure if anyone talked about this yet(didn't feel like reading all 11 pages) But I think that in AC3 Desmond will have to go through his ancestors to each temple and unlock the vault to protect the earth from another flare. Inside each vault will be another of the Ones Who Came Before just like Minerva, and they will tell you more about the truth of, well humanity, and such things as did Minerva.

El_Sjietah
04-01-2010, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Dm1les:
I'm not sure if anyone talked about this yet(didn't feel like reading all 11 pages) But I think that in AC3 Desmond will have to go through his ancestors to each temple and unlock the vault to protect the earth from another flare. Inside each vault will be another of the Ones Who Came Before just like Minerva, and they will tell you more about the truth of, well humanity, and such things as did Minerva.

Desmond isn't visiting the past in the Animus, he's just seeing it, so he can't use his ancestors to unlock the other temples.

Dm1les
04-01-2010, 04:24 PM
No no. I know that.
But what if his other ancestors went to the other temples for their own reasons?
Like Ezio went through all this and discovers he's the prophet blah blah blah.
But what if the others have some kind of the same deal going on.

Isiloron
04-02-2010, 05:08 PM
I would be more reasonable if the assassins used Desmond and the Animus system to locate each vault and then activate them. Maybe it will be some kind of rat race between the assassins and the templars.
I believe that's what you're going at?

GeorgeS1986
05-05-2010, 01:13 AM
hey guys...i recently finished the game.i am not planning to read all the comments but i was reading some of them trying to understand if Desmond is related to Adam and Eve and Ezio is related to Altair.

But i think that all of them are part of a big chain because we saw different stages while solving the glyph..So subject 16 had all these memories but he got insane,why because there are too much memories to keep and because of the animus,we saw Desmond like seeing some pictures of the templars (Altair memories) when he was outside the animus.

Then i don't know if somebody talked about the sexual relation between Ezio and the girl (i forgot her name) in the beginning and then in the middle of the game we saw Altair having sex with a girl in that tower so i think they both got pregnant.

So i think when Cane killed Abel and Cane became the first Assassin with all these abilities that he had from his parents,Cane then become the ancestor of Altair, Altair is the ancestor of Ezio, Ezio is the ancestor of subject 16 and subject 16 is the ancestor of Desmond.

What I'm trying to explain is that they are all related...then when if finished that lovely game and start reading the comments i stopped at Mikini's comment (second page) when He/She said about the codes : "P.S. What about the unlock codes for the videos, do they mean anything? (The code for the above Tesla one is 61902, maybe we could get a list going?"....i did some research and found that http://www.tfcbooks.com/articles/monument.htm if (http://www.tfcbooks.com/articles/monument.htm....if) you go to this page u can see this phrase : "The saga of the building's history, from its construction in 1902 alongside a 187 foot companion tower to house the various components of a prototype world broadcasting and communications facility to later less glamorous uses, is a story yet to be fully told."

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif so you can see the year of the construction and the code (1902/61902)..I don't know if anyone talked about that before but i am sure that all codes have their meanings.

And MAYBE it is true about TWCB because i can't find the answer about what is written in the bible when Cane killed Abel and then went to another place to find a girl and marry her..where did that girl come from??

But believe me guys everything in that story is wonderful cause if you take the assassin's example, the assassin is always getting orders from others and get money in return and maybe these orders are false and against the law but he did what the others told him in order to get money.

So it is always like that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif the president is the ruler of the country and the people are ruled by him,like the company which it has a boss(master)who gives order to employees to work in order to get money,also like the Master of Altair who gave him assassination missions.

One last thing i don't think Adam and Eve were trying to escape from TWCB, because if they were they would run out of that building and area to another place and not to the roof of that building so i think they were trying to get to the roof to escape the flood.

Now is that clear Mr Goldenarm009 ?lol http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

goldenarm009
05-05-2010, 04:17 PM
id love to read all that but its too intimidating...ever hear of paragraphs? lol

mikeh1294
05-06-2010, 10:22 AM
Then i don't know if somebody talked about the sexual relation between Ezio and the girl (i forgot her name) in the beginning and then in the middle of the game we saw Altair having sex with a girl in that tower so i think they both got pregnant.

If you read the ACII book, you find out that it was most likely Rosa, the thief, who got pregnant. The girl from the beginning (Her name escapes me) moved on and re-married, only to die later.


so you can see the year of the construction and the code (1902/61902)..I don't know if anyone talked about that before but i am sure that all codes have their meanings.

Nice spot there, didn't notice that!


And MAYBE it is true about TWCB because i can't find the answer about what is written in the bible when Cane killed Abel and then went to another place to find a girl and marry her..where did that girl come from??

The point of the AC games are that the nothing happened like the Bible says. Cain and Able were not the only two humans alive.


One last thing i don't think Adam and Eve were trying to escape from TWCB, because if they were they would run out of that building and area to another place and not to the roof of that building so i think they were trying to get to the roof to escape the flood.

Flood? The Biblical one? I've never considered that... Maybe the 'Ark' was either an Assassin or TWCM structure to withstand it? (Most likely TWCM in my opinion). Thats why TWCM were inside.

OR, the flood could be metaphorical, it could refer to a 'flood of knowledge' that Adam and Eve got, and that is how they knew TWCM were 'evil' and they needed to escape.


That reply has got me thinking again! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

El_Sjietah
05-06-2010, 10:38 AM
Or the 'flood' is the big disaster that almost wiped out all humanity and TWCB. The temples would be the 'Ark' then. Biblical stories are filled with metaphors like those.

mikeh1294
05-06-2010, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
Or the 'flood' is the big disaster that almost wiped out all humanity and TWCB. The temples would be the 'Ark' then. Biblical stories are filled with metaphors like those.

Touche?, I didn't think of that. I'm going to try and remember more Biblical stories and see if they relate now! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

GeorgeS1986
05-06-2010, 01:46 PM
If you read the ACII book, you find out that it was most likely Rosa, the thief, who got pregnant. The girl from the beginning (Her name escapes me) moved on and re-married, only to die later.

Actually I am a Lebanese person and I don't think I can find the book here. But I will ask about it.

I think I'm going to play that amazing game again trying to figure out what every code means.


The point of the AC games are that the nothing happened like the Bible says. Cain and Able were not the only two humans alive.

yeah this is definitely true: "NOTHING IS TRUE, EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED."

GeorgeS1986
05-08-2010, 12:56 AM
One last thing about the truth video,did someone realize that in the beginning of the video when Adam and Eve were running and then they jumped to get to the door,if you look carefully to the sky u see the place of the sun.Then when they went into that building and before they both broke the glass u can see a big shining light outside of that glass and when they broke it u can see the light clearer.

So it's not the time of the sunset or sunrise to think about that light is coming from the sun.The question here is: what is that light?Where is it coming from?Are they trying to escape an explosion??? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

El_Sjietah
05-08-2010, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by GeorgeS1986:
One last thing about the truth video,did someone realize that in the beginning of the video when Adam and Eve were running and then they jumped to get to the door,if you look carefully to the sky u see the place of the sun.Then when they went into that building and before they both broke the glass u can see a big shining light outside of that glass and when they broke it u can see the light clearer.

So it's not the time of the sunset or sunrise to think about that light is coming from the sun.The question here is: what is that light?Where is it coming from?Are they trying to escape an explosion??? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hmm, nice find. It does look a tad off. Although it could also be an editor trick to make the transition to the next scene more smoothly.

GeorgeS1986
05-08-2010, 05:57 AM
Hmm, nice find. It does look a tad off. Although it could also be an editor trick to make the transition to the next scene more smoothly.


Maybe it is an editor trick but the confusing problem is that when they were running they kept looking behind while "Nobody" was after them (when they arrived to the roof,they showed us the whole area from a far side which means that none was after them).

when they reached the roof it took just about 5 or 10 seconds between the arriving time and "ADAM WATCH OUT"...So probably it is an explosion.

Solidpanic
05-10-2010, 05:49 PM
The mountain in the final landscape of the video looks a lot lime Mount Killamanjoro (sorry dont know the exact spelling) in Africa. Where in many texts is believed to be were Man originated from

eziobelsanti
05-12-2010, 04:43 PM
are you guys serious read the begging subject 16s ancestors are Adam and Eve it says subject 16 and a date of observation its his memory he holds the mystery not Desmond but subject 16

El_Sjietah
05-12-2010, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by eziobelsanti:
are you guys serious read the begging subject 16s ancestors are Adam and Eve it says subject 16 and a date of observation its his memory he holds the mystery not Desmond but subject 16

Right, cause Adam and Eve would have no other decendents left alive today. Chances of that happening are practically nil.

Majest1kMoose
05-14-2010, 02:49 AM
I Don't Know If Anyone Said Anything About This, Cause 11 Pages Is A Lot To Read, But At About 27 Seconds In There Is A Image Of "Someone" On The Glass, I Interpreted It To Be A Reflection.
It Roughly Resembles Ezio, But I Think I Could Be What Was Chasing Them, Perhaps One That Came Before.
Tell Me What You Think?

Murcuseo
05-14-2010, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by Majest1kMoose:
I Don't Know If Anyone Said Anything About This, Cause 11 Pages Is A Lot To Read, But At About 27 Seconds In There Is A Image Of "Someone" On The Glass, I Interpreted It To Be A Reflection.
It Roughly Resembles Ezio, But I Think I Could Be What Was Chasing Them, Perhaps One That Came Before.
Tell Me What You Think?

Its Minerva holding a peice of Eden(apple), if you pause it and really look at the silhouette you can tell its her.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad255/Murcuseo/Capture-1.jpg

ZnorfRat
05-14-2010, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Xios1986:
Right, i'll try and explain the whole thing the way i see it as best i can.

Its a well established Chinese theory that there was once an ancient civilization, highly technologically advanced and more evolved than the present day humans, living a LONG LONG LONG LONG time ago, pre-dating like pre pre pre pre history... you get the picture...

It appears Assassins creed has taken on this theory as its central plot line. Here are my thoughts:

Long before our current state of being there was a time when another race flourished on the earth. This race was highly evolved in comparison to us. you could even say the course of their evolution was more 'complete' than us, in so much as they simply were able to become 'better' than we will ever be able to. Due, in part to the fact we as a species were made by them, so the state of humanity is a distorted imitation of beings we were designed on, It makes allot of sense in respect to our fractured, far from perfect nature as a species.

I think this race (i shall refer to as the 'proto-beings') had a pretty similar course of history to us in many respects, they evolved, through a long time to a point of supreme technological advancement and mental/physical development. Time is relative, advancement as a species is also relative, to us they were highly evolved, purely because we aren't as 'far along' as they got. or possibly because our perception of them is always going to be inferior as we are, by nature, inferior to them.

Eventually they got to a point of technology they could create life, engineer genetics and whatnot, and thus they created a society of beings to do the work they had been doing themselves for so long, (i think humans would do very much the same if we had the opportunity... a practical solution to allot of lifes needs, a synthetically created slave race with a system of mental control as an integral part of the initial design) They designed us very like them as they saw themselves as the most fitting framework to build beings over that could accomplish daily tasks and build and serve e.t.c. (try getting a donkey to build a house...)

Part of the design of this slave race was a system of control, because they understood that any living thing would not like to be a slave, so to solve this (and possibly a moral choice on part of them) they created a system of mental control as part of the design when 'drafting' how to make the slave race, to simply blind their creation (us) from the truth, keeping us in a state of mental illusion. (We can only imagine how far reaching and complete the effects of a willful manipulation of perception of reality will be like to experience)

When designing the race on themselves, it appears they very well may have inadvertantly also distilled in the slave race their (the proto-beings) need from freedom of individuality of choice e.t.c, possibly this is just a natural aspect of sentience they forsaw as an issue in their creation when in the context of them creating a slave race. The natural desire for freedom, anyway.

Part of the design was a system of control, so the Pieces of eden were made along with the slave race, a sembyosis. We as the slave race have in us as part of our very design neuro-transmiters created specifically to be manipulated by the force emited by the pieces of eden (as hinted on in one of the files unlocked in one of the puzzle glyphs), and consequently, the pieces of eden were designed and built specifically to effect that neurotransmitter in us, inorder to control us. As i said, a sembyosis.

This is why the pieces of eden have such an effect over us, it is a specific deliberate relationship between us (humans, the slave race) and the pieces of eden, alone.
The pieces of Eden are advanced 'tools' of technology designed specifically to effect (arguably) every aspect of our being, physically and mentally, en-mass and individually, as we are both (us and the PoEs) two mutual ends of a synthetic creation designed for a specific purpose.

Time went on in this ancient Civilization and for a time everything was ok, we as the slave race worked away blissfully unaware of the truth of our reality, kept indefinately inside a mental prison kept in place by the pieces of eden...

for this was our purpose, the very reason of our creation.

yet the proto-beings made us to much like them and for some reason something changed, unhappiness in us began.
Wether it was cross breeding between the proto beings and humans, or basic evolution.. who knows. What IS known, it seems, as at some point the effect of the pieces of eden seemed to weaken. Now the 'ins and outs' of why where and how and how widespread in regards to this point is easily a long discussion of its own so i will stick to what is known.

a man and a woman of the slave race named Adam and Eve, for whatever reason, knew to some degree that they and their race were being controlled by these pieces of eden, they found themselves, for an amount of time, outside of this mental control.

So they took it upon themselves to revolt against their masters and succeeded in stealing a piece of eden. Now if we are going on established religion as an acurate metaphor, Eve stole the apple from the tree of knowledge (think about the relative metophorical connotations of this statement in relation to the current subject). This caused our entire race to fall from this state of ignorant bliss, to wake up from the mind prison. (to fall from grace)

This created a war, as mentioned by minerva in the end scene. the slave race rose up against the proto-beings after having awakened to the truth of their situation. The slave race either left, or were banished from Eden, the civilized area the proto-beings lived. (man was banished from the gardens of eden).

The war raged, and both the proto-beings and mankind were so busy on eachother a solar flare was not noticed and it hit the earth burning everything to a crisp. very very few survived.

Now it is possible that Adam and eve having the piece of eden heavily influenced the fact they survived the catastrophy, that is protected them somehow, and thus began a new tree of evolution that leads to the present day mankind. (hence the legend of Adam and Eve in established belief)

Ovre time history turned into legend turned into myth and eventually became all but forgotten, twisted and distorted through various political means and the artefacts' (which survived the catastrophy) true purpose was lost. And because we are a species intimately linked with being controlled and manipulated, it grew naturally from us as time went by, and a branch of us became the templars, hell bent on finding these pieces of eden to control and gain power over us all.

It is also possible that a chain of events took place, a long standing prophesy right from the beginning. If you choose to believe that Adam and eve are half human half proto-being (supporting the fact they seem to be imune form the effects of the pieces of eden), and take into account that Subject 16 is a direct descendent of Adam or Eve, and an assassins (this would explain why the assassins have increased agility and certain powers like eagle vision). It is possible that the cross breeding 'had' to have happened, the uprising 'had' to have happened as Eve and Adam HAD to get the apple to survive inorder to be the begining of a line of assassins that reaches up to the present day, through Altair to leave codexes for Ezio for Desmond to experience through him while hooked into the Animus, for Minerva to speak to Desmond through Ezio. Time is relative. Its a chain of events, everything having to be in its place... like a tapestry across time.

Inorder for Minerva to get the message to Desmond that a new catastrophy is coming (solar flare) and this chain of events has put Desmond exactly where he needs to be with the abilities he needs, due to his lineage, inorder to accomplish his task, to find all the pieces of eden and use them to protect the planet from the coming solar flare.

ok... i'm done.

I agree with this theory 100%, i actually wrote something like this in a different thread just not as detail. =D

ZnorfRat
05-14-2010, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by mikini:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">One last thing i don't think Adam and Eve were trying to escape from TWCB, because if they were they would run out of that building and area to another place and not to the roof of that building so i think they were trying to get to the roof to escape the flood.

Flood? The Biblical one? I've never considered that... Maybe the 'Ark' was either an Assassin or TWCM structure to withstand it? (Most likely TWCM in my opinion). Thats why TWCM were inside.

OR, the flood could be metaphorical, it could refer to a 'flood of knowledge' that Adam and Eve got, and that is how they knew TWCM were 'evil' and they needed to escape.


That reply has got me thinking again! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They simply could have been trying to get out of the building. Imagine Adam and Eve when running at the beggining of the truth video being in a castle like thing and there running through the courtyard.... the only way out ( maybe since the being who supposedly created humans put the place in lock down) was climbing over the wall... get it?

K1ller311
05-14-2010, 07:35 PM
I read this and now it all makes sense. If the Assassin half-god bloodline is true, that would explain why (In the book Assassin's Creed: Renaissance) in the beginning when Ezio is tasked with taking his father's possessions out of his trunk, Ezio simply touched the lock and was suprised that it opened by touch. Ezio noted that maybe it was designed to react only to certain people... which must be Gods and Half-gods? Please respond. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Solidpanic
05-14-2010, 11:10 PM
Ok i have a question: in a couple of the puzzles, 16 mentions a character named Jack. Does anyone have any clue on who this might be? A while back i heard rumors that AC3 might center around Jack the Ripper and thats the only Jack i can think of when 16 mentions that name. But the time period is way off...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif idk im confused there

Elbrujo1978
05-15-2010, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Solidpanic:
Ok i have a question: in a couple of the puzzles, 16 mentions a character named Jack. Does anyone have any clue on who this might be? A while back i heard rumors that AC3 might center around Jack the Ripper and thats the only Jack i can think of when 16 mentions that name. But the time period is way off...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif idk im confused there

Jack is John F. Kennedy, her friends said so.

Solidpanic
05-15-2010, 10:54 PM
Really? Who says that?

JohnConnor2012
05-16-2010, 12:20 AM
In the glyphs, thee's a whole file on the Kennedy assassination (discussed above). He was often called "Jack". And what conspiracy themed-game isn't complete without mentioing the grassy knoll at least once?

Solidpanic
05-16-2010, 01:02 AM
Hmm well i missed that then but thanks for the clarification

Majest1kMoose
05-16-2010, 11:09 PM
Just One Thing.
Can Everyone Just Stop With All That Nonsense About The Scars?

Solidpanic
05-17-2010, 09:34 AM
I read somewhere that they put the scar in just to show the connection between Desmond and whoever we are playing as. No super secret meaning just something to show their connection.

Vey03
05-19-2010, 09:48 PM
Sorry, but can please someone show me the part when it says that TWCB made us only to be their slaves?

Majest1kMoose
05-21-2010, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by Mouse03:
Sorry, but can please someone show me the part when it says that TWCB made us only to be their slaves?
I Believe It Was In Mineriva's Explaination.
I THINK So.

Vey03
05-21-2010, 01:58 AM
Well...not quite.

I'm only asking, as it seems to have been taken as a given, but i haven't seen or heard anything like that anywhere in either game. So i just wanted to know if i've missed something? And if i have, where?
And if i haven't, why does everyone think this?

Because i'm not so sure.

Elbrujo1978
05-21-2010, 03:26 AM
In the truth video you can see a shadow figure ( probably Minerva ) with an apple of eden and humans working like slaves, so it seems.

Majest1kMoose
05-22-2010, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Mouse03:
Well...not quite.

I'm only asking, as it seems to have been taken as a given, but i haven't seen or heard anything like that anywhere in either game. So i just wanted to know if i've missed something? And if i have, where?
And if i haven't, why does everyone think this?

Because i'm not so sure.
I May Not Be Directly In The Game, But One Can Only Assume, From The Ammount Insinuation.

Torro747
05-22-2010, 07:57 PM
Well I couldnt read through all twelve pages so idk if someone already mentioned this but it seems to me that the person following Adam and Eve is Lucifer(more commonly known as Satan). That being said it is probably Lucifer who stole the apple for Adam and Eve and he helped them escape the Garden. Lucifer was probably a God that didint believe humans were being treated right so he turned against Minerva and the others. So therefore, subject 16 must be the direct decendent of Lucifer.

Vey03
05-23-2010, 02:30 AM
What i'm getting at, is there is no where in the game where we are told the TWCB made us for the sole purpose of being their slaves.
But it seems that this is what everyone assumes.

Let me put forward some ideas as to why i think this doesn't sound quite logical.

What we do know is that TWCB did make humans.
And we also know that the Apple can be used for control.

In the Truth video Minerva says TWCB made us, and we betrayed them. That they made us in their image and we betrayed them. There is a transcript of the conversatin here somewhere, but i can't find it.
It's as though she is hurt by the fact that humans betrayed them.
If you have made a slave, you don't sound hurt or sad when they betray you. You get angry, and go after them. Something that beings of their level of power would have no problem in doing to mear mortals. Yet they didn't.

Also, it's been mentioned here that after the solar flare, that humans and TWCB worked together to rebuild.
You do not work with slaves. You make them work for you.
And if indeed the human slaves got free, they would never work with those that enslaved them in the first place. They'd run as far away as they could get, and those who survived the solar flare would then rebuild on their own.

We also know that TWCB mixed with humans. To me, that indicates some sort of mutual respect, love. Or 'like' at least. Or at least this is what the paintings and stories of Gods and humans show.
If humans were slaves, they would be seen as inferior, and there would no way TWCB would mix with humans. To potentially pass on their powers/secrets to slaves? No way.

And they made us in their image. You don't make something in your image to treat them like crap. It would be like enslaving yourself.

So maybe they had this Apple and they knew it's power to create life. And they did.
And they mixed with humans and created a race of humans which have some of their gifts. The assassins.

A human found out about the Apple's power of control. Stole it and set about enslaving their fellow man (humans) for ultimate world control.
As Minerva said, humans knew about war, and they liked it as much as TWCB.
So this human started a war against TWCB. This would be my definition of 'betrayal' as Minerva says it.

The assassins went to try to deal with the humans that had the Apple, or Pieces of Eden. Adam and Eve escaping from that factory. Where humans are working as slaves for other humans.

Solar flare comes, destroyes almost everyone and everything. Those that survive are either humans, templars or assassins.
And to this day the templars try to control the world, and the assassins who try to stop them.

I think i may have just confused myself writing all this, lol. Because i've just read it, and now i'm thinking a few other things http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
But anyway, what do you all think?

GeorgeS1986
05-23-2010, 10:12 AM
After reading the posts i can now say that i have a confused mind with lot of mixed ideas and probabilities.

I wrote some comments about the truth video which i think they are reasonable and i agree with "Mouse03"...But here is what i think...I think that the meaning of the apple is controlling of the mind but not as they showed us in the game that there is an apple having power that can control the mind. The real meaning is that we can control or being controlled by others...In the bible, Eve convinced Adam to eat from that permitted tree which is the exact picture in the truth video that Eve is holding the apple (stolen by Eve) and escaping from God. So when Minerva told Desmond : "they betrayed us" it's the exact thing when Eve and Adam betrayed God when they ate the apple.

So I've been trying to connect the glyphs with the story and that is what I concluded:
1-If U all remember that when Altair and Ezio have been told to assassinate and when they finish their job and before the victim dies, the only thing the victim says is you are wrong u don't know what you are doing u killed the wrong person or something like that.....then in AC1 we found that the master of Altair is the bad person ( controlling Altair's mind to do what he wanted)...then Gandhi:cause of death = Assassination....John Kennedy:cause of death = Assassination...Also scanning the picture of the cross...We can conclude that all of these crimes and assassinations are mistakes..."BUT" human do mistakes because he is controlled by bad people.Also "people see what the organization wants them to see" (in glyph #9) is a way of controlling our mind "they made it look like an accident"

2- If u think about sending Ezio and Altair to assassinate is the exact picture like when sending young to war(one of the glyphs talked about.Generals make orders,young boys take orders.Master of Altair made orders, Altair took orders,the same thing for Ezio taking orders from others. That is the meaning of the apple.That's why "NOTHING IS TRUE",,,and "EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED" means that assassination is permitted,killing others is permitted,vengeance is permitted, stealing is permitted (that is what Ezio and Altair can do ). Then the ten commandments are wrong because everything is permitted . Maybe human wrote these ten commandments as laws to stop bad things.

Last thing I think that the piece of eden that was held by the pope when Ezio fought with him is the exact rod of Moses which has the power. I want someone who can read what it is written on that rod and share it with us... Please tell me if i am wrong in some of these points.

JohnConnor2012
05-23-2010, 11:36 AM
It would cetainly be a twist if it turned out the Assassins were the bad guys all along, but (1) there's no hint of manipulation inside the assassins in AC2 as there was in AC1; and (2) the assassination targets mentioned are presented in the glyphs as Templar victims rather than those of the Assassins.

Majest1kMoose
05-24-2010, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by Mouse03:
What i'm getting at, is there is no where in the game where we are told the TWCB made us for the sole purpose of being their slaves.
But it seems that this is what everyone assumes.

Let me put forward some ideas as to why i think this doesn't sound quite logical.

What we do know is that TWCB did make humans.
And we also know that the Apple can be used for control.

In the Truth video Minerva says TWCB made us, and we betrayed them. That they made us in their image and we betrayed them. There is a transcript of the conversatin here somewhere, but i can't find it.
It's as though she is hurt by the fact that humans betrayed them.
If you have made a slave, you don't sound hurt or sad when they betray you. You get angry, and go after them. Something that beings of their level of power would have no problem in doing to mear mortals. Yet they didn't.

Also, it's been mentioned here that after the solar flare, that humans and TWCB worked together to rebuild.
You do not work with slaves. You make them work for you.
And if indeed the human slaves got free, they would never work with those that enslaved them in the first place. They'd run as far away as they could get, and those who survived the solar flare would then rebuild on their own.

We also know that TWCB mixed with humans. To me, that indicates some sort of mutual respect, love. Or 'like' at least. Or at least this is what the paintings and stories of Gods and humans show.
If humans were slaves, they would be seen as inferior, and there would no way TWCB would mix with humans. To potentially pass on their powers/secrets to slaves? No way.

And they made us in their image. You don't make something in your image to treat them like crap. It would be like enslaving yourself.

So maybe they had this Apple and they knew it's power to create life. And they did.
And they mixed with humans and created a race of humans which have some of their gifts. The assassins.

A human found out about the Apple's power of control. Stole it and set about enslaving their fellow man (humans) for ultimate world control.
As Minerva said, humans knew about war, and they liked it as much as TWCB.
So this human started a war against TWCB. This would be my definition of 'betrayal' as Minerva says it.

The assassins went to try to deal with the humans that had the Apple, or Pieces of Eden. Adam and Eve escaping from that factory. Where humans are working as slaves for other humans.

Solar flare comes, destroyes almost everyone and everything. Those that survive are either humans, templars or assassins.
And to this day the templars try to control the world, and the assassins who try to stop them.

I think i may have just confused myself writing all this, lol. Because i've just read it, and now i'm thinking a few other things http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
But anyway, what do you all think?
If They Weren't Slaves Then Why Was Minerva Controling Them With The Apple?
She Hadn't Been Betrayed At The Time Of The Truth Video. It Seemed That She Was Oblivious To Adam And Eve Scaling The Building, And Runing Away.

Marius_Darkwolf
05-24-2010, 04:09 AM
I'd like to add my $1.50 (I blame inflation) I think the pure human strain was created as a slave or at least servent class. And through some form of genetic mingling (wither gen-eng or breeding), two human/TWCB hybrids were born, Adam and Eve. Some how they escaped, and during the escape they see a TWCB overseer (foreman, slave master what ever you want to call it) compeling a group of humans with the apple to work the forges, possibly creating more of the PoE's, one of which Eve grabs (reference "I have it" at the end). When they get to the roof, they see that they are surrounded by wilderness, there's nothing else out there. I do think there was some kind of automated guard system, and that's what the shadow is, and that's why Adam yells "Look out".

Now I also think that at least some of TWCB were sympathetic, to the humans plight (heck some of the slave owners in the american south were closet abolutionists), and after the Flare, they joined forces with some of the surviving humans, including Adam and Eve. And I think that there was some interbreeding involved there. That's why some of the Assassin bloodlines have some immunity to the apple, and it explains the Eagle Vision. (Lucy doesn't appear to have it, as evidenced by AC2 opening). Those with that bloodline might be the elite assassins.

I also beleave that subject 16 is related to Desmond through Altair and Ezio, but since the Templars were not aware of Minerva's warning, but 16 had planted the clips through out almost the whole game, I think his ancestor was conceived earlier than Desmond's.

As to why I think that humanity was a slave/servent race, its because most of humanity has the neuro-receptor for the apples. You don't put something like that into a species you want to be your equals, that's a slave collar.

One more thing, we suspect at least 33 PoE's, I'm certain that the first 9 are apples. I say this for two reasons, in Greek mythology there are 9 golden apples in the Garden of the Hysperides, and in Norse mythology, Ioun had 9 golden apples of immortality. I also think that there are at least two sword forms. 1 is a western style sword, at times called Excaliber, or Cortana, it may also have been the sword wielded by Joan of Arc (the templars got that one), and one Katana style, known as Musashi. I think there's three of those though because of legends of three holy swords.

El_Sjietah
05-24-2010, 05:49 AM
We're doing the exact same thing with robots. We're creating robots to do the work we don't want to do. Let's say 50 years from now, we've managed to create a robot that looks and acts exactly like us. We're proud of what we've achieved, so we respect it, take care of it, maybe even love it, but in the end it's purpose is still to serve us.
Let's say this robot develops a will of its own and takes off. We would feel betrayed. We've treated it well according to us, but it takes off anyway. We care for it, so we try to bring it back.
Then let's say a giant catastrophe hits earth and wipes out everyone except you and the robot. The robot used to be your servant, but you have no means to control it anymore. In fact, the only way you can survive is to cooperate. Would you drop your original perception and work with the robot or try to enforce your will anyway?

Marius_Darkwolf
05-24-2010, 05:55 AM
For all intents and purposes, we're like the new BSG's cylons,especially the final 5 type

GeorgeS1986
05-25-2010, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by JohnConnor2012
It would certainly be a twist if it turned out the Assassins were the bad guys all along, but (1) there's no hint of manipulation inside the assassins in AC2 as there was in AC1; and (2) the assassination targets mentioned are presented in the glyphs as Templar victims rather than those of the Assassins.

You got my point here,,, But I'm not saying that the assassins were the bad guys "ALONE" but also the ones who are controlling Assassin's mind. In AC1 Altair learned how to fight with the help of his master, he was sending him to practice (in order to be more powerful than before to send him and do his job)...In AC2 Ezio learned how to fight, how to steal etc with the help of his friends and UNCLE...They were giving him information about the targets, why? just to let his job be easier... Think about:" NOTHING IS TRUE " these 3 words showed us in AC1 what they mean, then in AC3 we will know that his friends and uncle are the bad guys.

The apple means controlling of the mind (the power that leads to the SIN) ,,Eve stole the apple, controlled the mind of Adam and then they betrayed "TWCB" or "GOD". What I am trying to show you is that: MAYBE the pope (who fought with Ezio) who was holding the other piece of Eden (which i think it's the rod of Moses) was trying to get the apple to destroy the SIN (because of course he is the pope the protector of the church) with his power given by GOD: THE ROD OF MOSES.

Just think about why Minerva wasn't dedicating the speach to Ezio? Because it's up to Desmond to know the truth about his uncle and his friends and the Power of the apple that leads people to make crimes,vengeance,stealing from others and capsize on them all.

That's what I think about the AC3 is going to be http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

El_Sjietah
05-25-2010, 10:25 AM
The way I see it, is that sin only became an issue after humanity was freed from the influence of the apples. So if anything, the apples would help the world get rid of sin, not cause it.

JohnConnor2012
05-25-2010, 11:49 AM
No, I quite like this line of thought theologically as it's relevant to the game.

In Genesis, eating the apple didn't introduce sin into the world (Satan fell first, for example, and was in the Garden), just humanity's awareness of it.

So it would be appropriate for the Pope to insist on being the arbiter of good and evil in the name of 'protecting' humanity (kind of like Old Testament Mosaic law) in some sort of mental state equivalent to pre-lapsarain innocence and the Assassins to insist each decides that for themselves - "nothing is true" including the commandments, etc.

Where the analogue breaks down is that the Templars excuse their own evil for the greater good, which they think will benefit all but mainly them.

Also, as Ezio's speech makes clear as Savanarola (another Apple-wielder and keen imposer of an ultra-moral code not concerned much about how he does it) gets toasted, the Asassins gave him hints rather than orders and basically encouraged him to find his own way and realise his own potential not as a manipulative conspiracy but to prevent the sort of violation of his free will that their enemies, the Templars, were so keen on. I'm inclined to believe him / them at this stage.

El_Sjietah
05-25-2010, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by JohnConnor2012:
No, I quite like this line of thought theologically as it's relevant to the game.

In Genesis, eating the apple didn't introduce sin into the world (Satan fell first, for example, and was in the Garden), just humanity's awareness of it.

So it would be appropriate for the Pope to insist on being the arbiter of good and evil in the name of 'protecting' humanity (kind of like Old Testament Mosaic law) in some sort of mental state equivalent to pre-lapsarain innocence and the Assassins to insist each decides that for themselves - "nothing is true" including the commandments, etc.

Borgia openly admits he doesn't care about religion at all and has only become pope to further the Templar's goals, so claiming he's doing it because of his christian believes is rather silly.

Marius_Darkwolf
05-25-2010, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JohnConnor2012:
No, I quite like this line of thought theologically as it's relevant to the game.

In Genesis, eating the apple didn't introduce sin into the world (Satan fell first, for example, and was in the Garden), just humanity's awareness of it.

So it would be appropriate for the Pope to insist on being the arbiter of good and evil in the name of 'protecting' humanity (kind of like Old Testament Mosaic law) in some sort of mental state equivalent to pre-lapsarain innocence and the Assassins to insist each decides that for themselves - "nothing is true" including the commandments, etc.

Borgia openly admits he doesn't care about religion at all and has only become pope to further the Templar's goals, so claiming he's doing it because of his christian believes is rather silly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That and if you follow history at all, you know that Rodrigo Borgia was one of the most corrupt and perverse Popes in a time of really nasty/freaky popes. The position was one of near ultimate power, that was his sole reason for it.

Ross_Auditore
05-25-2010, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by IV_trailer:
In glyph 20 you have a puzzle about brains. There is also a manuscript about "useless" transmittor parts in the human brain that no other animal had. They are probably there to rechieve orders of the apple.

It's obivous the 'people that came before' are the 'sun' people. Who were experimenting on apes, with a peice of eden. But ade a lifeform that culd outsmart they're own kind.

JohnConnor2012
05-25-2010, 06:28 PM
Hm: in context, you'll see I was talking more about Borgia's Templar beliefs as grand master than his Christian beliefs as pope. Odd where they apparently tally, but obviously, he's only pope for the access it gives, as he says himself.

Marius_Darkwolf
05-26-2010, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by JohnConnor2012:
Hm: in context, you'll see I was talking more about Borgia's Templar beliefs as grand master than his Christian beliefs as pope. Odd where they apparently tally, but obviously, he's only pope for the access it gives, as he says himself.
That may have been why Ubi chose him as an enemy, because he ties in so well, his historical behavior and the presumed behavior and thoughts of the Templars. Whats really interesting and not a lot of people are aware of this, but if when you watch the Lineage movie, the person Borgia delivers the letter to is the current pope, the part not everyone knows is that that pope is/was his maternal uncle.

What seems fairly interesting to me, is that the Templar's who are likely derived from a pure human stock have a Meme very simular to TWCB, in that they want to utterly control humanity "for their own good" (as evidenced in AC1 with Vidic's comments and the death confessions for each of Altiar's victims) But the Assassins whom are likely descended at least in part from TWCB want to give all of humanity it's freedoms. Most of Humanity appear to be sheeple though. Makes you wonder if they caused humans to evolve from sheep, or if the fact that we were bred to be slaves explains that.

Elbrujo1978
05-26-2010, 01:20 AM
The thing here is: the Templars want to end conflicts in the world but to do that they will remove their freedom to mankind. This ideology is where the Templars are different from the assassins.

I believe that the Templars want to be the new masters of humanity, I think they want to be like TWCB.