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ojcar1971
09-25-2007, 11:36 AM
Oleg, please, if there's a chance for a 4.09 patch, would you mind to fix this:

When I fly at high altitude, the sky is way too dark. It seems night sometimes. I asked to some real pilots and they tell me it's not correct.
Thank you!

VW-IceFire
09-25-2007, 01:47 PM
Nevermind real pilots...last time I took a flight the 737 I was traveling in was cruising at 38,000 feet (nice little display on the headrest TV they had for all the seats) and while the sky is blue its not pitch black like that.

Its definitely improperly done but we knew that back in the 1.0 days. Not likely to change at this point...it might be something thats hardcoded and not a quick value to change. No idea why but I give the coders the benefit of the doubt. I would expect it to be fixed on Storm of War.

Lurch1962
09-25-2007, 04:59 PM
I've always wondered why there's a delay in the rendering of sky color when the viewpoint is changed rapidly. For example, if I'm on the deck I see a pale blue. If I switch to an external view of a high flier, the same pale blue is rendered at first, then after about two seconds it instantly switches to the appropriate darker blue.

Is this, I wonder, a clue to how the coding is implemented?

Wildnoob
09-26-2007, 07:14 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPzm0a4d-MI

this is real combat footage, part of the propaganda documentary "Combat America".

and whe can see by this part I've posted the wheater very similary to wat whe see in the sim.

* spoiler.

ojcar1971
09-26-2007, 08:01 AM
I think it's an old movie. The color is dark because it's old, not because it's real.

Wildnoob
09-26-2007, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by ojcar1971:
I think it's an old movie. The color is dark because it's old, not because it's real.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVugL3soZRM

wat do you say about this ?

"normal wheater"

at least for me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ojcar1971
09-26-2007, 09:29 AM
It's the same movie. An old movie, nothing more. I have seen P-47 straffing footage at treetop and it's the same color
I have asked real pilots. Real sky is not as dark at these altitudes.

Lurch1962
09-28-2007, 03:59 PM
I agree, IL2's sky at altitude is much too dark. And showing stars so clearly visible is also unrealistic--even the brilliant planet Venus, while fairly easily seen if one knew where to look, would appear on screen as a very dim dot.

To those who would use old films as a guide for comparison, beware. There are numerous factors which can lead to false impressions in any imagery, still or moving. Imaging media and display devices have smaller dynamic ranges than the eye. Compression and expansion of brightness scales are the norm.

During photography, if the exposure time is set for objects in bright sunlight, darker parts of the scene will appear much darker than as seen by the observer.

And during transfer from one medium to another, further alterations to overall brightness and contrast are almost inevitable.

Wildnoob
09-28-2007, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Lurch1962:
To those who would use old films as a guide for comparison, beware. There are numerous factors which can lead to false impressions in any imagery, still or moving. Imaging media and display devices have smaller dynamic ranges than the eye. Compression and expansion of brightness scales are the norm.

During photography, if the exposure time is set for objects in bright sunlight, darker parts of the scene will appear much darker than as seen by the observer.

And during transfer from one medium to another, further alterations to overall brightness and contrast are almost inevitable.

I don't think so...

see the other part :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVugL3soZRM

after the bomb run (witch was held in the morning)the time passes and they found clear wheater. at this part the pilot checks her watch and is 12 : 35 pm.

Wildnoob
09-28-2007, 05:49 PM
ok, I don't mean really "clear wheater" for obviosly altitude reasons. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

but I ask everybody to see the final 41 seconds of this part :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF7ymvxI9GE&mode=related&search=

that's perfectly the IL2 skies for me.

LEXX_Luthor
09-30-2007, 12:41 AM
In Russia, the sky wheater is dark blue.

M_Gunz
09-30-2007, 03:29 AM
It's a latitude thing. Check the latitude of Moscow.

MEGILE
09-30-2007, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
In Russia, the sky wheater is dark blue.

In Russia, gravity go up.

M_Gunz
09-30-2007, 08:20 AM
Moscow at 55 deg 45 min North, the sun strikes the atmosphere at lower angle, less backscatter.

Sim was made for what theater originally?

stansdds
10-01-2007, 03:52 AM
I think M_Gunz has nailed it.

Lurch1962
10-02-2007, 05:35 PM
Just to sure, when you suggest that latitude is the cause, you mean the angle of incidence of sunlight controls the sky's darkness? That's true to a very great degree. But latitude by itself is is only part of the picture.

At any latitude, and at suitable times of day when the sun is at the very same altitude above the horizon, the clear sky color will be the same. For example, noon at Moscow would be like, say, 9:30 AM/2:30 PM in the tropics (depending very much on time of year, of course!)

The foregoing blather would apply more for higher altitudes, where water vapour content is generally low for all latitudes. At low levels in the atmosphere, water vapor content can vary tremendously from place to place. And in a cloudless sky, water vapour (with solid particulates) has a VERY profound impact on sky color. A cold winter day will result in a quite deep blue sky, while a hot, humid day will exhibit an almost colorless, washed-out haze.

Just to illustrate further, even when the sun is not far above the horizon, a hazy sky is still rather bright (lots of scattering). But in a dry location, even if the sun were overhead the sky would be rather darker.

--Lurch--

Enforcer572005
10-02-2007, 10:04 PM
Alot depends on whether the moon is out and and what phase. It can light up the sky pretty well. I kinda think the sky is a bit too light in some maps in the middle of the night. I wish we could decide the time of month, but that would be a bit much I guess.

I'd settle for the AI planes shutting of their lights when not near an airbase.

M_Gunz
10-02-2007, 10:08 PM
How hot and humid does it get in Moscow summer?

zardozid
10-10-2007, 01:10 PM
you can not extrapolate the "true" color of anything from these old films (to a scientific certainty)...

first of all the old single strip color film that was used back in the 1940's (for location shooting) fades over time...not only that but 2 different copys of the same film (printed at the same time) will fade at different rates. So their is no single "true" benchmark for how the color actually looked at the time it was shot...

Not only that but the film was most likely edited together from several different sources, shot at different times...most of what you see chronologically happening in the story "might" have been shot out of sequence and assembled together later in an editing room...

LEXX_Luthor
10-10-2007, 03:40 PM
Lurch::
Just to illustrate further, even when the sun is not far above the horizon, a hazy sky is still rather bright (lots of scattering). But in a dry location, even if the sun were overhead the sky would be rather darker.

--Lurch--
That's what I noticed myself. So that's how I model the sky in StrikeFighters. There is no easy way to model low level haze that you can climb above, so I must assume all SF weather at sea level is low humidity. Since I'm primarily interested in classical high altitude operations, I have lots of dark blue. The dark blue also allows me to keep high contrast between dark sky and sun glare and white ice clouds.


Here's the (mostly) stock SF sky colour. You cannot climb above the haze like we do in Oleg's sim. I need to do that. So I darkened the sky as seen in the Yak screenshot below, and assume a low humidity "winter" or "Russian" ( http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) sky colour for all altitudes ... in particular, for SAC operations over Siberia.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/img00014-2.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/000-2.jpg

msalama
10-10-2007, 04:11 PM
In Russia, gravity go up.

Seeing yer sig, many other things go up.

PS. Yessiree, fecking off right this moment. Just thought to mention this minor point for the records is all.