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View Full Version : How to shoot down a Bomber- and live to do it again



Chuck_Older
02-09-2005, 03:11 PM
Hiya

Most of you know me, I'm the local know-it-all and halfwit

I'm wrapping up my first campaign that will be available to the community, my Flying Tigers campaign. I think you'll like it...but that's not my point here

I have shot down about 500 bombers in playtesting. I didn't always 'live' to tell about it. We always hear "hey! stop attacking from six o'clock!". Sure , right, we gotcha. But where DO I attack from?

Well, I feel a good one is the 'High side attack', although in FB and PF, I find a truly High side attack makes you a sitting duck for the Dan'l Boone top turret gunner. But an attack from slightly higher, say 100m, from your target? Sure.

Here's a pic. I never have seen this done on the forums, so let's try to discuss this. This pic shows the way I have been making kills on bombers, while getting shot very infrequently in return:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/bomber.jpg

The enemy a/c is cicled in yellow. the Yellow line indicates his flight path. The red X is where he is, approximately, when I pull the trigger. I simply aim for the front of the plane, hoping to get a pilot kill, but often, I end up lighting the plane ablaze when I do this correctly- I've seen twin engined bombers blossom four fireballs from all four gas tanks after this attack. You can really pour it on. the key is to pick the right intercept path. You want to be close when he passes by- but not so close you hit him. Also not so far back you ram the #2 plane in the bomber formation. Takes a little practice. But in a 'slow' plane like the H81A-2 shown, I can go left to right, turn around, pass right to left, and continue making the same attacks on the same plane

I'd like to see some screenshots showing how and why other players make their bomber attacks, with explanations as to their effectiveness or lunacy. This is as close to "Clobber College" as we're likely to get http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Chuck_Older
02-09-2005, 03:11 PM
Hiya

Most of you know me, I'm the local know-it-all and halfwit

I'm wrapping up my first campaign that will be available to the community, my Flying Tigers campaign. I think you'll like it...but that's not my point here

I have shot down about 500 bombers in playtesting. I didn't always 'live' to tell about it. We always hear "hey! stop attacking from six o'clock!". Sure , right, we gotcha. But where DO I attack from?

Well, I feel a good one is the 'High side attack', although in FB and PF, I find a truly High side attack makes you a sitting duck for the Dan'l Boone top turret gunner. But an attack from slightly higher, say 100m, from your target? Sure.

Here's a pic. I never have seen this done on the forums, so let's try to discuss this. This pic shows the way I have been making kills on bombers, while getting shot very infrequently in return:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/bomber.jpg

The enemy a/c is cicled in yellow. the Yellow line indicates his flight path. The red X is where he is, approximately, when I pull the trigger. I simply aim for the front of the plane, hoping to get a pilot kill, but often, I end up lighting the plane ablaze when I do this correctly- I've seen twin engined bombers blossom four fireballs from all four gas tanks after this attack. You can really pour it on. the key is to pick the right intercept path. You want to be close when he passes by- but not so close you hit him. Also not so far back you ram the #2 plane in the bomber formation. Takes a little practice. But in a 'slow' plane like the H81A-2 shown, I can go left to right, turn around, pass right to left, and continue making the same attacks on the same plane

I'd like to see some screenshots showing how and why other players make their bomber attacks, with explanations as to their effectiveness or lunacy. This is as close to "Clobber College" as we're likely to get http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Red_Russian13
02-09-2005, 03:32 PM
I'm gonna have to try this. Although my gunnery skills are probably too poor to make it work...Seems like a good tactic.

Chuck_Older
02-09-2005, 03:35 PM
Standard US tactic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
02-09-2005, 03:38 PM
This is really the best tactic early war or when flying a really obsolete fighter and don't have the speed to get up and above the bombers. I prefer the German style of attacking bombers from head on twelve o clock high but going into a vertical dive right above the formation is a favorite of mine too. If you time the entry into the dive right aiming should be a snap and nine times out of ten a wing is coming off http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif.

Chuck_Older
02-09-2005, 03:45 PM
Screenshot! Show the folks what to do http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

WTE_Galway
02-09-2005, 05:34 PM
coming up under them from head on can also work wonders

TAGERT.
02-09-2005, 05:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
coming up under them from head on can also work wonders <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My turn! Got Picture?

heywooood
02-09-2005, 05:51 PM
the high side dive works wonders - as does the vertical dive from directly above....the head on attack from below and slightly off center works well when you have that opportunity.

It helps to know the defensive position of the bombers guns...Stukas and Stumo's as well as other types with a rear gunner behind the 'pit should be vulnerable to the low 6 attack 'up from under' so to speak - but their guns seem to have an unrealistic arc of fire at times...

Some twin bombers have rear defensive guns on the top of the fuselage only so these should be vulnerable from that quarter too. It all depends on plane type..just like in dogfighting, every type has its strenghts and weaknesses.
No experienced fighter pilot would ever attack the Me110 headon...it was ..imprudent at best.
After chin turrets were installed on the B17-G and beyond, the number and success of headon passes was reduced according to pilot accounts.

3.JG51_BigBear
02-09-2005, 06:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Screenshot! Show the folks what to do http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll get some up later tonight. I have a great B-17 intercept mission I dowloaded a while back that will be perfect.

SlickStick
02-09-2005, 07:39 PM
Always from above, always out of gunner angles and always, always, always, aim for wingtips. And not the shoes, either. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'll have to take a few screenies next time, but I've downed 6 Pe-8s with one ammo load in the Hurricane Mk IIc without a scratch. It was an air start server and two pilots kept spawning Pe-8s. I got one guy 4 times and the other two.

B-17s can be messy, as their wings are not as fragile as the Pe-8s, but I always use the same tactics. He-111s are the only bombers at the moment that I go for the pit, either from above or head-on. (The He-111 AI nose gunner, if the human did not "C" key into the position, never fires at head-on aircraft in my experience.)

Pe-8 nose gunner is a different story as you can dogfight in a Pe-8 and the nose gunner will shoot as you line up the target or at head-on aircraft. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TheGozr
02-10-2005, 03:39 AM
SHort video here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/il2/images/arts/gozrtestvideo.mov)
You can see at the end of this short movie a pass on a bomber , we don't see it in the video but the bomber was badly hurt and had to crash land after this.

( Footage on "METHANOL and PROWAR" server)
S~

The-Rocketeer
02-10-2005, 04:01 AM
Nice cockpit ;-)

Are you playing with a cockpit end a projector with track Ir ?

TheGozr
02-10-2005, 04:27 AM
LoL this is a real Yak-9U . http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mortoma
02-10-2005, 12:45 PM
Chuck, why don't you post some tracks?? I'd like to see how you and others do it. I have my own techniques and would be glad to posts tracks of mine. I'm not half bad myself, and I feel the Betty is the most challenging bomber to kill without getting pinged. B-17 is east compared to the Betty. I hate Betties and they are nearly as fast as a fighter, which makes things complicated.

flyplenty
02-10-2005, 02:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
coming up under them from head on can also work wonders <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean something like this?

http://img169.exs.cx/img169/8223/pf2433yi.th.jpg (http://img169.exs.cx/img169/8223/pf2433yi.jpg)
I'm firing from a little far away, but that's not a bad thing when taking on bombers. Convergence was set on 300m.

http://img169.exs.cx/img169/238/pf2442nu.th.jpg (http://img169.exs.cx/img169/238/pf2442nu.jpg)
I turned around behind the Betty's six out of range of that nasty tail gun, and attacked from the right side. Still a little too far behind though. Execution of the tactic leaves somewhat to be desired, as you can see. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://img188.exs.cx/img188/5715/pf2455pi.th.jpg (http://img188.exs.cx/img188/5715/pf2455pi.jpg)
I still got a result though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img188.exs.cx/img188/1470/pf2478cj.th.jpg (http://img188.exs.cx/img188/1470/pf2478cj.jpg)
The second one. I'm in P-40 no.02, visible just below the tail. I should have pulled the stick a little harder, but I did shoot the rudder off, and probably killed the tail gunner too.

http://img188.exs.cx/img188/8839/pf2486zq.th.jpg (http://img188.exs.cx/img188/8839/pf2486zq.jpg)
Since the tail gun didn't fire anymore, finishing off was easy.

http://img188.exs.cx/img188/5479/pf2495rt.th.jpg (http://img188.exs.cx/img188/5479/pf2495rt.jpg)
Near miss, heheh. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img188.exs.cx/img188/1931/pf2505th.th.jpg (http://img188.exs.cx/img188/1931/pf2505th.jpg)
With two engines shot to pieces, the crew (those that survived) thought the better of it.

http://img190.exs.cx/img190/7009/pf2695rv.th.jpg (http://img190.exs.cx/img190/7009/pf2695rv.jpg)
Yet another victory. The Japanese showed a great freefall display though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Btw I agree that the Betty is quick and difficult to overtake when you start out from below. You have to have patience and overtake them on a parallel course while slowly climbing at the same time. Once you're slightly ahead of a bunch you want to attack (or just one), you can do that side attack thing. One pass per plane, maybe two, then move on to the one behind, because the Betty's speed tends to put you behind their tail gunner after two passes.

Chuck_Older
02-10-2005, 03:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Chuck, why don't you post some tracks?? I'd like to see how you and others do it. I have my own techniques and would be glad to posts tracks of mine. I'm not half bad myself, and I feel the Betty is the most challenging bomber to kill without getting pinged. B-17 is east compared to the Betty. I hate Betties and they are nearly as fast as a fighter, which makes things complicated. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't I need hosting to do that? I have pic hosting only

But, in my new campaign, the intro movie shows this...and it shows great shots of bombers getting raked nose to tail by my MG fire http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Altough, as if it was purposefully spiting me, the d@mn bomber doesn't have the common decency to catch fire in that movie. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yog_Shoggoth
02-10-2005, 06:27 PM
When going up against betties I commit a cardinal sin. I take their six. However, I'm only there for 2 seconds, during which I launch 1 set of rockets from .2 and get 1 kill (sometimes more when thier bombs go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) Repeat 4 times. Sometimes I take tims and get 5+.

jurinko
02-11-2005, 04:43 AM
Mjr Bong told the Japanese bombers can be shot from dead six except Betty with 20mm there. To get the Betty, he recommended horizontal attack from the front quarter. No easy, but very safe.

nakamura_kenji
02-11-2005, 04:58 AM
6 oclock aiming at wing and engine with ki-43 from about 700 to 800 meters gunsight make good for long range shot ^_^.

if flying faster fighter better armament fighter i like to attack from above in very step dive high speed way that defenxsive gun have problem tracking movement and only one turret shooting at you rather than 2 sometime from other angle

reddevil49
02-11-2005, 08:12 AM
Thanks for the tip Chuck_Older. Gave your idea a try last night and all I can say is wow. It works like a charm if you set it up right. I was flying a 1938 Hurri and was downing the big four engine VVS bombers. Took a couple passes but it does work. I can only imagine what a 190 will do now. Thanks for the great tip.

Chuck_Older
02-11-2005, 09:36 AM
Glad to help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Not my idea, though. US Navy, if I recall