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Urmo22
11-27-2008, 04:26 AM
Is there any way to make bombers aim more realistic? Any time i attack bomber with my bf it does not matter how i make this, even in steep dive over 700kmh they make my engine mess with one single well aimed hit and im force to land on enemy territory (career over...again). frus-ta-ting!

Brain32
11-27-2008, 04:29 AM
Simply choose not to attack bombers with the ME109 that's what I did and am much happier now.
Afterall it's historical that way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

X32Wright
11-27-2008, 05:10 AM
NOT TRUE!!!! the Germans attcked heads on from above like 1.5K meter to 2k meters above the bomber stream.

use a 'Kanonenboot' (aka BF-109 with gunpods) use the MG 151/20 and not the MK-108 and shoot form a distance! Change ur convergenace to MG-400 and CANNONS-550.

general_kalle
11-27-2008, 08:15 AM
dont attack from behind and dont attack from below unless you got plenty of speed or are going headon.

5, 6 and 7 o clock is off limits when attacking.
but yea it is difficult there's a reason why they called it the flying fortress

Divine-Wind
11-27-2008, 09:53 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dc/Headon.jpg

Usually works for me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

LovroSL
11-27-2008, 01:40 PM
Bg vs. bombers aint that hard...
come in 450kmh+ from top-front-side (move thrught 3 planes of motion at once) and aim for the engines+ wings

The rock hard elevator grants you super stable gun platform, just bear in mind that you have to "aim" with the approach itself, last second corrections are a no-go.

Divine-Wind
11-27-2008, 02:17 PM
Yes, definitely aim for wingroots and/or engines. The wing comes off a lot more easily than the fueselage does, plus that's where all the fuel is stored. Also, the AI likes to bail out the minute it loses the smallest function, although they might stay long enough to put out a flaming engine.

In any case, the wings will go a lot faster than the rest of the plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Just be sure to watch the gunners.

WTE_Galway
11-27-2008, 03:04 PM
- do not ever attack a bomber on a constant flight path, dodge and weave even in a dive
- dive at a very steep angle and resist the temptation to level out behind the aircraft
- be proactive, watch for tracer coming your way and try and dodge it

Freiwillige
11-27-2008, 10:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqjs5NzKSxg

Do it how the luftwaffe does it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Buzzsaw-
11-27-2008, 10:32 PM
Salute

Fly a 190... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Actually if the 109 is equipped with a 30mm cannon, attacking bombers is childsplay. One hit on a wing pretty much assures you of a kill.

The American heavy bombers are much more prone to catching fire than they were historically. The B-17 is far more fragile than the real aircraft was. Even a few 20mm hits can set the wing tanks on fire.

LEBillfish
11-27-2008, 11:10 PM
I tend to attack from 2 or 10 always staying in their prop shadow....The nose can't shoot that far over, and belly, top and waist can't shoot through props.

Another option is sweep in using wide arched curves, just like r/l the gunners find it hard to track you.

p.s. I practice with Ki-43 vs. B17's and B24's.....You'd be shocked at what you can do with patience http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

K2

cfcporter1962
11-28-2008, 01:50 AM
I find the Bf109G one of the best single engine interceptors. Use Mk108 gun pods (30 mm)and attack from the above and side (about 90 degrees). Fire short range. It's all over (for the bomber) in a single slash. Attack the leader in the formation - this makes you (bf109) difficult for the gunners to track. Fly at about 400 - 450 km/hr - a good balance between speed and manouvrebility.

Another good interceptor is the Ni84C.
Happy hunting!

b2spirita
11-28-2008, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqjs5NzKSxg

Do it how the luftwaffe does it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Just dont do what the third guy did!

jetguy06
11-29-2008, 07:01 PM
Bg vs. bombers aint that hard...
come in 450kmh+ from top-front-side (move thrught 3 planes of motion at once) and aim for the engines+ wings


Yes, yes, yes, definately move through three planes at once. I once downloaded a video that was a tutorial for attacking anti-aircraft guns, and that is the general idea. Make the gunner have to adjust aim on all three axes(sp?). It works like a charm for me, and bombers rarely hit me when I attack them this way. I say get above him, and at his 10-11 or 1-2 o'clock. Dive and lead. It takes practice and patience, but trust me, it pays off. Happy hunting!

Jex_TE
11-30-2008, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by b2spirita:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freiwillige:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqjs5NzKSxg

Do it how the luftwaffe does it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Just dont do what the third guy did! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems as if some of these bombers in this vid aren't shooting back?

I'm shouting at the screen in my head "fire damn it, fire!"

Gnomie
11-30-2008, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by jetguy06:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Bg vs. bombers aint that hard...
come in 450kmh+ from top-front-side (move thrught 3 planes of motion at once) and aim for the engines+ wings


Yes, yes, yes, definately move through three planes at once. I once downloaded a video that was a tutorial for attacking anti-aircraft guns, and that is the general idea. Make the gunner have to adjust aim on all three axes(sp?). It works like a charm for me, and bombers rarely hit me when I attack them this way. I say get above him, and at his 10-11 or 1-2 o'clock. Dive and lead. It takes practice and patience, but trust me, it pays off. Happy hunting! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But don't you loose a lot of time between attacks if you use that approach? I try to attack from 3-4 or 8-9 o'clock. Then I carry forward momentum all the time, and I don't have to completely turn after an attack.

Is there a ".ntrk database" anywhere where people have uploaded examples of how to do stuff? I often find myself thinking "there must be a better way to do this..." but I can't find any examples. I did check out Dart's training videos, but the tutorials are mostly on ground attacks and such..

Aaron_GT
11-30-2008, 10:07 AM
But don't you loose a lot of time between attacks if you use that approach?

But more if you are shot down.

JSG72
11-30-2008, 11:25 AM
Never.Ever! Go it alone amongst a bomber box. Is the Real life advice of Luftwaffe Bomber Intercept pilots. And if you watch the Vids you will see that 6'o clock was the prefered method. Be it in numbers or up against a lone straggler.

"One on one" In game. Do as you please. You will have the speed so attacks from high on the 9 to 3s and aiming for the wingroots engines is desirable.Zoom passed at a shallow angle. Passed the nose and then do a Zoom climb back up and behind to continue same.
Frontal attacks were a practice preached by some Sturm (Fw.190 gruppes) but not all. as this would often lead to little known results and a large dispersal of the attacking formation. With a good chance of interception by Escort fighters on your emergence behind the bomber formation. Escorts would normally only attack if bomber formation was attacked.

Bomber interceptions by BF109s were more common in the MTO and Italy/Austria/Rumania where this type was more numerous against Medium bombers and B24s of the 15AF.

Against the 8thAF.. The FW. 190 was the prefered weapon. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Urmo22
12-01-2008, 03:30 PM
When i zoom lone bomber with high speed you know how it ends. Even with fast me262 on it highest speeds it too often ends with crackling voice when bullet hits the windshield and total darkness...There are sharpshooters in gun spots, man!

Divine-Wind
12-01-2008, 03:34 PM
I don't think I've ever gotten a PK while BnZ'ing bombers in a -262. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

VW-IceFire
12-01-2008, 07:48 PM
Neither have I...with a Me-262 going fast and giving them deflection angles I have rarely been hit by defensive fire.

Always come in so that the gunners have to track you in two directions. So from above and the side or below and the side so that your closure isn't direct on. Human or AI ...thats an easy shot.

Also if you're going to hang out for any extended period of time in a bomber formation...you will be hit eventually. There's enough guns pointed and firing that eventually something is going to make contact. People blame the sharp shooters but I think there is a point where it would be far too easy to get through.

I have learned to mix my bomber formations in the mission builder with rookie and regular pilots as the veterans and ace AI are indeed sharp shooters. But below that they are pretty average.

Manu-6S
12-02-2008, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
Salute

Fly a 190... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Actually if the 109 is equipped with a 30mm cannon, attacking bombers is childsplay. One hit on a wing pretty much assures you of a kill.

The American heavy bombers are much more prone to catching fire than they were historically. The B-17 is far more fragile than the real aircraft was. Even a few 20mm hits can set the wing tanks on fire.

Really?

The last time I flew a Ta152 (1x 30mm, 2x 20mm) my opponent eated FIVE 30mm shells (attacked from high 4 o'clock) on all the fuselage (starting from the head to the tail).

Maybe B17 are too fragile... but B25 are tanks (and with burning engines it can still fly for minutes).

Probably it's because B25 is the russian field version... (I'm playing to "Theatre of War" too... I never thought that not arcade games could be biased, I refused it, but now...)

joeap
12-02-2008, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by Manu-6S:

Probably it's because B25 is the russian field version... (I'm playing to "Theatre of War" too... I never thought that not arcade games could be biased, I refused it, but now...)

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Manu-6S
12-02-2008, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:

Probably it's because B25 is the russian field version... (I'm playing to "Theatre of War" too... I never thought that not arcade games could be biased, I refused it, but now...)

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry but I don't believe that an early T34 could eat 20x 37mm AP shells in the rear side from a distance of 15m suffering no damage.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

joeap
12-02-2008, 12:59 PM
T-34? Thought we were talking about Il-2? Ok I'll bite, "Russian B-25 field version", ummm we have several B-25s in the game. The flyable one is the J, we also have the B-25C which was also used by the Soviets AFAIK and the G and H only used by the Americans (as AI only so not sure how easy or hard between the J and the AI versions) so not sure about this "field B-25"?

Also never saw ToW advertised as a sim but a wargame.

DKoor
12-03-2008, 01:13 AM
This is only a matter of patience and a little luck.
I killed 25 B-17s with Me-262, on 'realistic' settings, without pauses, time accel./decelerations etc., so it can certainly be done.
But the key is patience.
Bombers will always see you (Ai) and will always shoot unlike humans.
So your EVERY approach on those behemoths must be practically the same with maximum caution possible.
Just watch this track (http://www.esnips.com/doc/ed27e945-b26b-446a-841f-8ad3dc0c28ab/KunaMe262-vs-25xB17G-405) and you'll know what I'm talking about. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Here is "slower" version how to attack bombers - Hurricane vs He-111s. track (http://www.esnips.com/doc/efa646ab-a81e-4ade-9201-58b51d5487da/KunaHurri-vs-4xHe111-405)

Manu-6S
12-03-2008, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by joeap:
T-34? Thought we were talking about Il-2? Ok I'll bite, "Russian B-25 field version", ummm we have several B-25s in the game. The flyable one is the J, we also have the B-25C which was also used by the Soviets AFAIK and the G and H only used by the Americans (as AI only so not sure how easy or hard between the J and the AI versions) so not sure about this "field B-25"?

Also never saw ToW advertised as a sim but a wargame.

Ehm.. Il2 covers the East Front: we have american planes used by soviets since the first versions of the game (L&L). Germans still has eastern front planes (low ata, jabos FW190s).

P39s, B25s and others are modelled to be fled by russians.

I'm not stating that there is field version of B25 in IL2: I was sarcastic since it seems, IMO, that all the soviet planes are more or less overmodelled with very few exceptions.

P39? A good pilot can be lethal in this plane agaist every type of Bf109 (F4 and G2 too, my squad fought G2s in P39 during a tournament and did very well). It's agile and with a good firepower.
Now look at his DM and tel me if it's realistic: once I followed a black smoking P39 flying a 190A4 for more than 10 minutes. I damaged my engine overheating (I was soo ****ed off so I didn't disengage).

You know americans loved that plane.

Instead a 109 (maybe all G + K versions, no E-F version) that start smoking will die in 4 minutes or, if flamed WILL explode in 6 seconds (I am witness flying "in" and "against" 109s).


And somebody sould explain me why soviets cannons can set FW190 aflame with a pair of shells and no so for ALL the other type of ammo ingame: the test made by on of our posters about incendiary capability of russian ammo really opened my eyes. And still I refused to believe it was voluntary... since ToW.

EDIT: ToW is a wargame but the physics is really good. As are the tank models (external and internal). Tanks are modelled with paramaters like body armors, turret armors (front, side, rear for each) and the DM seems very good. I only can't believe some things I was witness.

horseback
12-06-2008, 01:10 PM
No question that there is a Soviet bias to the game, and given the nationality of the programmers, who can blame them?

The effectiveness of the ai defensive gunners is vastly overmodelled. I've railed against them on many occasions, and can cite chapter and verse exactly how they exceed any human performing the same function in real life.

BUT the game is what you have to deal with. Real life exponents of the head on attack stressed that you had to be very good, have balls of steel (brass ones were found to be inadequate), amd a bit lucky. In game, you're only moving in two planes (range and vertical angle) vs the ai gunners, and can get smacked.

You must be fast, you must be changing altitude and direction relative to your target, so that vertical and horizontal angles are changing too rapidly for the gunners to adjust to as you close the range.

Then you have to be either very good or very lucky. Guess which one comes with lots and lots of practice?

cheers

horseback

na85
12-06-2008, 01:19 PM
You know what? I'd much rather fly a game with a soviet bias than an american bias.

Same reason the Dogfights show is so lame.

b2spirita
12-06-2008, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by na85:
You know what? I'd much rather fly a game with a soviet bias than an american bias.


So would i, but theres more who would have it the other way around.