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SwampLord450
11-17-2010, 09:59 AM
Hey,
AS most of you know, crystal, mercury, sulfur, and gems are being combined into a single resource for HoMM VI. What effect do you think this will have on the gameplay?

I think it could be an interesting change, but it also concerns me because I fear it might reduce the variety between towns and the strategies available. Historically, most towns have relied heavily on one or two resources in particular; I'm afraid compressing them all will make the towns more homogeneous in how they play.

What do you think of this change?

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
11-17-2010, 10:12 AM
I think it'll make holding onto mines more important. In the previous games, you're right...each faction had 1 specific rare resource they needed more than the others...now EVERY faction will be needing that same resource. It will also make things TONS easier on map-makers. Not having to worry about a specific variety of mine placed near it's appropriate town and such.

As for how it will effect gameplay..."some", but not as much as some think. It's still going to depend on what each faction requires for their buildings.

mcgslo
11-17-2010, 03:05 PM
We will see why they did that... i think that because of new things like teritories and for strategy purpose. I guess also that these resources will be limited so you will have to attack keeps and castles to get them.

I dont know what will happen to Trade post since only few resources will be availible... im shure they will have something new there also.

wdcryer
11-19-2010, 08:48 AM
I think this is a great change. Having so many resources in previous Heroes games seemed like overkill. Usually each race only needed a few of them, aside from a few buildings like mage guilds. Resource management will be much less of a headache now. You don't have to worry as much about finding every mine but the one you need. And like Chuckles said, map makers will have less of a headache, too.

Elodin
11-26-2010, 11:33 PM
I dislike the change.
1) It makes each faction less unique.
2) Less early game strategy. No more hard decisions on what mines you will capture with your limited number of early troops.
3) It will introduce more of a steam-roll factor in the mid-late game as you capture other castles and instantly have compatable resources for your starting castle/troops.
4) No more decisions how much of one rare resource to trade in a marketplace for something you can use now and how much to hold on to for latter use.
5) Less resource management means less strategy.

The change to me seems merely to to make the game into more of a real time game for multiplayer gamers who prefer RTS. I prefer turn strategy games with depth. There are plenty of RTS games to chose from.

I dislike the concept of "streamlining" a game to cut content in order to make it play faster.

GoranXII
11-27-2010, 11:08 PM
I'm with Elodin on this, I don't like it, I mean sure the 4-different-rare-resources thing was under-utilised in previous games, but it's been getting better with each game, as stated here (http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=33591):

In Heroes 1, rare resources were only used to build towns and recruit high level creatures.

Heroes 2 introduced trading posts where you could trade one resource for another or for gold.

Heroes 3 introduced artifact merchants where you could trade resources for artifacts.

Heroes 4: Winds of War introduced spell shops where you could buy spells with rare resources.

Heroes 5 added creature artifacts for Wizards that let you make mini-artifacts for Academy creatures.

Heroes 5: Hammers of Fate added Rune Magic that let Dwarven creatures get buffs during battle by spending rare resources.

nqox
11-28-2010, 05:42 AM
I think that is a wonderful change. Now that every faction will need the same resource, the wars over mines will be much much important, you wont be able to say "let him take my sulfur mine, i dont care i have my gems which is important to me".
Also there wont be a massive amount of one resource that you will be able to convert to gold or other resource which will make the game harder.

Nice thinking from the creators.

dchalfont
11-28-2010, 08:24 AM
I agree that the resource change is good, just been playing heroes 5 for the last few hours and essentially everything but 1 main resource is just used to trade for other resources and gold, making them useless, and evening the building resource requirements across the different types wouldn't make it better, it would just make the dependence on obscure mines even worse. 3 mines means less backtracking and mine stealing, and faster building up to the top tier.

wdcryer
11-29-2010, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by Elodin:
I dislike the change.
1) It makes each faction less unique.

The resources didn't really make factions unique. Every faction basically had the one resource it relied on, and the only differences between those resources were their names and graphics. Functionally and strategically they were all equivalent.


2) Less early game strategy. No more hard decisions on what mines you will capture with your limited number of early troops.

The decision wasn't really hard. You take the wood, ore, gold, and the resource your faction uses. The others were only important for a few buildings.


3) It will introduce more of a steam-roll factor in the mid-late game as you capture other castles and instantly have compatable resources for your starting castle/troops.

Actually, I think it will reduce the steam-roll factor. If I play a faction that uses a lot of mercury, then conquer a town that uses gems, I'll have plenty of gems to develop it. I didn't need gems for my main town, so I have a huge stockpile. However, if I play a faction that uses mercury and I capture a town that also uses mercury, I'll probably have to choose which town I want to use my mercury on. Less resources means more strategy, in this case.


4) No more decisions how much of one rare resource to trade in a marketplace for something you can use now and how much to hold on to for latter use.

That's about all the resources your faction didn't use were good for. You might as well trade just about all of them away. The only thing that made me reluctant was the terrible trading rates.


5) Less resource management means less strategy.

It wasn't so much resource management as having one special resource you needed and a bunch that barely ever mattered. The management of your resources was almost always obvious and one-dimensional.

Pitsu
11-29-2010, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by wdcryer:
The resources didn't really make factions unique. Every faction basically had the one resource it relied on, and the only differences between those resources were their names and graphics. Functionally and strategically they were all equivalent.
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Actually, I think it will reduce the steam-roll factor. If I play a faction that uses a lot of mercury, then conquer a town that uses gems, I'll have plenty of gems to develop it. I didn't need gems for my main town, so I have a huge stockpile. However, if I play a faction that uses mercury and I capture a town that also uses mercury, I'll probably have to choose which town I want to use my mercury on. Less resources means more strategy, in this case.

In H2-H3 one often captured more towns than the starting town in mid game. You know, the game was not a single town vs a single town, but a multi-factional kingdom vs multi-factional kingdom. Having other type of factions available as "expansions" to your starting town gave the resources more uses and changing "main" faction in the middle of a game a possible strategy.
Now if you conquer a village not from your main type, but requiring the same resource, you won't upgrade it before there is a resource excess from the main town. The new town would just use up resources, but produce creature stacks that are weaker/less compatible with your main army. If the second town can be built with only minor hindrances to your main town, at some point you may have two strong armies available. This means that if a player controls several (different) towns and they are not competing for the same resources the game is less likely to be decided by a single battle between the main heroes. It would be a longer war with more conflicts. Particularly true if merging the champion level creatures of different factions into one army is associated with serious penalties.

Xenofex_086
11-29-2010, 02:42 PM
Furthermore, this "every faction basically had only one (precious) resource it depended on" is pure nonsense and I have no idea why so many people repeat it like some chant or whoknowswhat. Every faction used one main precious resource and depended on all of them. Mage guilds and high level creature dwellings predominantly, but not exclusively. Some resources were more necessary than other, but by no means the building plan of any faction depended on wood + stone + one precious resource only.

wdcryer
11-29-2010, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Pitsu:
In H2-H3 one often captured more towns than the starting town in mid game...

That's a good point, but I think it may be undermined by the whole town conversion thing. If you capture a well developed town, you may not want to convert it to your faction, in which case it is developed enough that you won't have to spend many resources on it. However, if the town isn't very developed, you'd probably prefer to just convert it to your town type. That will allow you to grow your main army and deny units to your opponent's main army, should they capture the town back.

Also, you'll probably be getting a lot more of each resource than if you had to divide your attention between 7 resources. Splitting your attention between towns may not be as much of an issue as I originally proposed.

wdcryer
11-29-2010, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Xenofex_086:
Furthermore, this "every faction basically had only one (precious) resource it depended on" is pure nonsense and I have no idea why so many people repeat it like some chant or whoknowswhat. Every faction used one main precious resource and depended on all of them. Mage guilds and high level creature dwellings predominantly, but not exclusively. Some resources were more necessary than other, but by no means the building plan of any faction depended on wood + stone + one precious resource only.

Okay, so every faction needed every resource for mage guilds and a few buildings. Other than that those resources would accumulate into huge stockpiles that you couldn't do much with. That seems like a system screaming for simplification. It seems almost as if mage guilds were made to justify each faction getting all of the possible mines, rather than having all of the mines for their own purposes.

Edit: Let me put it this way. Every faction had resources that were almost worthless to them aside from buying mage guilds.

Xenofex_086
11-29-2010, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by wdcryer:
Okay, so every faction needed every resource for mage guilds and a few buildings. Other than that those resources would accumulate into huge stockpiles that you couldn't do much with. That seems like a system screaming for simplification. It seems almost as if mage guilds were made to justify each faction getting all of the possible mines, rather than having all of the mines for their own purposes. Wood and ore are the two most heavily stockpiled resources after the initial building phase, yet they remain in MMH VI, so following your logic we are perfectly fine with only one resource because there is no way to stockpile it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

wdcryer
11-29-2010, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Xenofex_086:
Wood and ore are the two most heavily stockpiled resources after the initial building phase, yet they remain in MMH VI, so following your logic we are perfectly fine with only one resource because there is no way to stockpile it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Wood and ore are useful for almost every building. That's something you actually want to have on hand. Not to mention you spend it on most buildings in every faction, so stockpiling it is just a matter of getting a lot of it rather than not being able to spend it. That's a building cost issue, not a "this resource is worthless for me" issue.

edit: I still haven't heard you come up with a good argument for why 7 resources is better than 4.

Xenofex_086
11-29-2010, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by wdcryer:
Wood and ore are useful for almost every building. That's something you actually want to have on hand. Not to mention you spend it on most buildings in every faction, so stockpiling it is just a matter of getting a lot of it rather than not being able to spend it. That's a building cost issue, not a "this resource is worthless for me" issue. You are backing up from what you said. It was about the stockpiling, wasn't it? So do the wood and the ore stockpile more than the rest of the resources? The do. So what makes them more worthy of remaining in the game if the problem is that after some time they are almost not used or at least no more used than the rest of the resources for trade in the marketplace? They could easily be substituted by gold only, because it is needed for absolutely everything and is constantly used, no matter the game stage, so you can't stockpile it.
And yes, the scrapped 3 resources were also used for many buildings and more often you needed to find some rare (or precious) resource than wood or ore to build something, so your argument - if it is an argument - works against you.
I still haven't heard why 4 resources is better than 7 either. Why 7 is better than 4 has already been mentioned a couple of times at least - greater complexity, greater variety, greater number of possible situations. To begin with.

wdcryer
11-29-2010, 03:52 PM
The point was not about stockpiling, the point was that every faction had resources they barely needed. Stockpiling is just a potential symptom.

But anyway, wood and ore stockpiling is a very rare experience for me. You need a lot for castles and you need it for almost every building you make. By the time you have made most of your buildings, you should be capturing more towns to develop with, you guessed it, wood and ore. This is going to be even more common in Heroes 6 given that you can convert towns to your faction and develop them from scratch.

Also, wood and ore are much different from resources which you only need for mage guilds and a few buildings. By the way, mage guilds aren't going to be in Heroes 6, so the problem would be even worse.

Also, level 7 units would generally need a resource your town focused on, which meant you had a lot less of that resource while other resources you didn't need accumulated.


And yes, the scrapped 3 resources were also used for many buildings and more often you needed to find some rare (or precious) resource than wood or ore to build something, so your argument - if it is an argument - works against you.

You would always find all of them and gain them at pretty much the same rate in just about every map. That doesn't add much depth, imo.


I still haven't heard why 4 resources is better than 7 either. Why 7 is better than 4 has already been mentioned a couple of times at least - greater complexity, greater variety, greater number of possible situations. To begin with.

I don't think the complexity and variety really added much depth to the game, though. That's what I'm saying. I think that's why the designers are going the 4 resources route.

GoranXII
11-29-2010, 06:16 PM
For those who're complaining about each town only requiring one resource each in the previous games, I''l point out these (http://hommworld.net/Homm/general_info.html) three (http://hommworld.net/Homm2/General_Information.php) pages (http://hommworld.net/Homm3/GeneralInformation.php), which provide, right at the end, the various total-build costs of each town. Those who say towns in H3 only needed one precious resource each obviuosly never played Necropolis or Castle.

wdcryer
11-29-2010, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by GoranXII:
For those who're complaining about each town only requiring one resource each in the previous games...

I admit, I went too far on that point. I think a lot of it is the recurring costs of level 7 creatures, which often cost one particular resource aside from gold (definitely in Heroes V). In the long run, I think that does a lot to define the resource a town needs more than any other factor.

Also, once you take out the cost of mage guilds, which will be removed in Heroes 6, costs in most Heroes 2 and 3 towns skew towards one or two resources. In Heroes V it seems like they did a better job in some towns of balancing resource requirements, but the level 7's skew it a lot in the long run.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the new resource system in action. I think there will be fiercer competition for mines, as Chuckles pointed out.

Xenofex_086
11-30-2010, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by wdcryer:
The point was not about stockpiling, the point was that every faction had resources they barely needed. Stockpiling is just a potential symptom.

But anyway, wood and ore stockpiling is a very rare experience for me. You need a lot for castles and you need it for almost every building you make. By the time you have made most of your buildings, you should be capturing more towns to develop with, you guessed it, wood and ore. This is going to be even more common in Heroes 6 given that you can convert towns to your faction and develop them from scratch.

Also, wood and ore are much different from resources which you only need for mage guilds and a few buildings. By the way, mage guilds aren't going to be in Heroes 6, so the problem would be even worse.

Also, level 7 units would generally need a resource your town focused on, which meant you had a lot less of that resource while other resources you didn't need accumulated. In HoMM I-V and especially in HoMM II-IV every faction needed all of the resources and not only for Mage guilds, so the "unnecessary" precious resources were stockpiled no more and even less than the wood and the ore. This should be self-evident if one has played all the games so far. In HoMM III Tower and Dungeon use absolutely all resources, the rest of the factions employ most of them (all of them for guilds) and only Stronghold and Fortress build their structures mainly with wood and ore. In HoMM IV it is even more complicated because every faction chooses between two tier 2, 3 and 4 creatures and usually their structures require completely different resources. Even in HoMM V where the dominance of one precious resource over the rest is clear, the remaining 3 are still used.
If you capture more towns, you will need more precious resources to develop them, so, again, this is not really an argument against the scrapped 3 resources. Wood and ore are sufficient only for the most basic buildings, so if you want to have middle and high level structures, you need more than that.
You don't need the precious resources for just "a few" buildings - check the building plans of all factions in HoMM I-V, basic and upgraded dwellings. Most of the creatures above the lowermost levels require some precious resource - if not for the basic dwelling, then for its upgrade.
The cost of the top tier creatures is the only thing which makes one particular precious resource more useful for one faction than the rest, but this does not mean at all that this faction uses only this resource. In MMH VI the building plans will be VERY similar and the only difference will be how much "crystallized dragon blood" or whatever its stupid name is will be required for each advanced structure. But then again, the number of the structures will also be reduced, so I guess the simplification of one thing follows the simplification of another. Hopefully not until there is nothing left to simplify.

I don't think the complexity and variety really added much depth to the game, though. That's what I'm saying. I think that's why the designers are going the 4 resources route. It definitely added to the uniqueness of each faction. Developing Tower/Academy was not the same as developing Inferno or Castle/Haven, or Necropolis, or... whatever. Depending on the building plan, you could temporarily skip the creature for the structure of which you have no resources and go for another creature which you can afford because it requires different resources. This is unachievable when three of the resources - wood, ore and gold - are needed for pretty much everything and only the fourth is some variable (but again you will need it for all mid-high level dwellings I guess).

GoranXII
11-30-2010, 02:17 AM
You know what the the issue was don't you? Ubisoft saw what they thought was a problem, and instead of spending even 5 minutes trying to come up with a solution (like boosting the production of wood/ore mines to 10/day, and rare resource mines to 5/day, and adjusting the prices accordingly), they tossed the whole thing out and decided to go with something 'better'.

wdcryer
11-30-2010, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by Xenofex_086:
In HoMM I-V and especially in HoMM II-IV every faction needed all of the resources and not only for Mage guilds, so the "unnecessary" precious resources were stockpiled no more and even less than the wood and the ore.

Actually, if you look at the links GoranXII provided, you'll see that just about every town needed wood and ore in much greater quantities than other resources. Yet I recall, in just about every map I played, having about every resource mine by the end of the first or second week. I don't remember wood and ore mines generating more per turn than other resource mines, although you did get them a bit earlier. When wood and ore do build up eventually, I usually spend a lot of it on secondary and tertiary towns.

Also, in Heroes VI you should expect to be converting and developing a lot more towns from scratch. In this starting phase of development, wood, ore, and gold are clearly dominant.

In Heroes V, I think you are right that the numbers are more evenly distributed. I don't have a table of the resources and don't feel like adding everything up, but from a glance over it looks like they did a better job with that.


In HoMM IV it is even more complicated because every faction chooses between two tier 2, 3 and 4 creatures and usually their structures require completely different resources.

That's cool, but it's pretty exclusive to Heroes IV.


You don't need the precious resources for just "a few" buildings - check the building plans of all factions in HoMM I-V, basic and upgraded dwellings. Most of the creatures above the lowermost levels require some precious resource - if not for the basic dwelling, then for its upgrade.

Actually, checking the resource requirements in Heroes II and III, most towns did skew towards one or two special resources. Often one resource is required in at least about 30 more quantity than any other resource, and then it is also required for the level 7 unit. The requirement for other resources gets much lower when you factor in that mage guilds won't exist in Heroes VI.

But again, in Heroes V they may have done a better job with this. I think most towns had one or two resources that were only really important in small quantities, but more resources mattered in each town.


It definitely added to the uniqueness of each faction. Developing Tower/Academy was not the same as developing Inferno or Castle/Haven, or Necropolis, or... whatever. Depending on the building plan, you could temporarily skip the creature for the structure of which you have no resources and go for another creature which you can afford because it requires different resources.

That's a good point. Usually, I find I'm getting all of the resources in equal quantities, so it doesn't factor in as much, but sometimes I can't get a particular resource as much and have to skip certain dwelling for a while. I don't see how that could be duplicated in Heroes VI.

I think in Heroes VI you may just buy a general core dwelling and a general elite dwelling, but I'm not certain about that. I read that somewhere but can't find confirmation. That would certainly be a weird change to get used to.

Control zones may change the calculus, too. You won't be able to just take the resource mines you need in enemy territory and run away. In neutral territory, you'll want to claim most mines as opposed to potentially skipping resources that aren't as important to you.

GoranXII
11-30-2010, 12:33 PM
Then you need to work on your memory, because wood and ore 'mines' genererated 2 resources per day as opposed to 1 for the others. Also, in H6 you won't be starting from scratch since a lot of the buildings (except dwellings and the factional buildings) will be cloned, and will thus convert with the town.

wdcryer
12-01-2010, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by GoranXII:
Then you need to work on your memory, because wood and ore 'mines' genererated 2 resources per day as opposed to 1 for the others. Also, in H6 you won't be starting from scratch since a lot of the buildings (except dwellings and the factional buildings) will be cloned, and will thus convert with the town.

I implied that I could be mistaken. Still, looking at the Heroes 3 chart, the amount of wood and ore you need eclipses most other resources by at least a factor of 2, and often much more. Add to this the fact that mage guilds are gone, and the factor gets much higher.

I didn't know you could keep a lot of the buildings in your town when you converted it. Where did they talk about that? That would be a relief, actually.

Also, I think they could sort of duplicate the effect Xenofex mentioned, where you have to choose which buildings you want to build based on your resources on hand, by making some buildings cost a lot of a particular resource. It's basically the same principle, but with less resources. Some buildings could cost a lot of wood, while others would cost a lot of crystal or a lot of gold, ore, etc.

mcgslo
12-01-2010, 11:07 AM
Now it got me thinking again: Let say there is 1vs1 game. If now blood crystals will be rare you will have to take them from your player opponent. He will have now hard time to build his own buildings while your faction will rise above. And more important when you will go into his territory you two will probably attack with main heroes and main army... so.. the player who wins over simple resource will have huge advantage... more army, more resources, more buildings, ... ill say its GG already http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Of course this is only my hypothesis... we dont know to witch extent you will need to actually attack players for resources. Or how will creatures pool work. In previous heroes 1 fight was enough to win whole game.

GoranXII
12-01-2010, 12:32 PM
I implied that I could be mistaken. Still, looking at the Heroes 3 chart, the amount of wood and ore you need eclipses most other resources by at least a factor of 2, and often much more. Add to this the fact that mage guilds are gone, and the factor gets much higher. True, but that's only those prices, it hardly ties down a new game to the same issues does it?


I didn't know you could keep a lot of the buildings in your town when you converted it. Where did they talk about that? That would be a relief, actually. Well I have to admit, some of that is conjecture,but it's educated conjecture, based on the fact that if you didn't keep the general buildings then there wouldn't really be much point in converting would there?


Now it got me thinking again: Let say there is 1vs1 game. If now blood crystals will be rare you will have to take them from your player opponent. He will have now hard time to build his own buildings while your faction will rise above. And more important when you will go into his territory you two will probably attack with main heroes and main army... so.. the player who wins over simple resource will have huge advantage... more army, more resources, more buildings,... Nearly all of the mines are tied to towns, so it's going to be pretty hard to poach mines now.

Elodin
12-01-2010, 07:48 PM
Another bad thing about only 4 resources is if you get a bad roll on the random creature guarding your crystal mine you are screwed. Every random level 2 (for example) creature stack will not be equal in power so it can easily be GG early on. Whereas with more resources you can improvise and build a differnt dwelling that requires a rare resource you do have.

mcgslo
12-02-2010, 01:12 AM
But as soon you attack one enemy players teritory you will either win or loose the game, unless there is a trick hidden somewhere... or he will not defend it. Maybe creture stacks are limited like in heroes bounty tied to Leadership score.

Xenofex_086
12-02-2010, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by mcgslo:
But as soon you attack one enemy players teritory you will either win or loose the game, unless there is a trick hidden somewhere... This entirely depends on how many towns does the enemy have. Defending one's own territory is not always necessary to be victorious in the end.

Actually, if you look at the links GoranXII provided, you'll see that just about every town needed wood and ore in much greater quantities than other resources. Yet I recall, in just about every map I played, having about every resource mine by the end of the first or second week. I don't remember wood and ore mines generating more per turn than other resource mines, although you did get them a bit earlier. When wood and ore do build up eventually, I usually spend a lot of it on secondary and tertiary towns. Of course wood and ore are needed in greater quantities, but after you build and upgrade all the structures in each town, they become just as useless as the rest of the "unnecessary" resources and given that at least one of them is used to recruit a top tier creature - even more so. And as pointed already, the wood and ore sites provide +2 per day, not +1 and thus compensate for the greater wood/ore building requirements.
I don't know what maps you are playing on and on what difficulties, but on a regular L/XL random map on Impossible difficulty where your starting resources are 0, 0, 0, etc. 0 (I don't play on lower difficulty, it's boring) quite often the resource management is among your primary tasks during the first 1-2 months and the discovery of precious resources mines does not necessarily mean their capturing because they are usually guarded by strong neutrals, which (not always, but quite often) you just don't have enough finances to attack by the end of week 2. Not to mention that you may not even find the respective mines for 2 weeks and even more.

Actually, checking the resource requirements in Heroes II and III, most towns did skew towards one or two special resources. Often one resource is required in at least about 30 more quantity than any other resource, and then it is also required for the level 7 unit. Well, this is simply incorrect. One or two precious resources are indeed used more than the rest, but, again, what's left is not totally useless at all, even when you rule out the Mage Guilds.

I think in Heroes VI you may just buy a general core dwelling and a general elite dwelling, but I'm not certain about that Most likely it will be exactly like this, which reduces the variables even more. The Cores of one faction will probably cost X gold + X wood + X ore, the Elites - X+Y gold, X+Y wood, X+Y ore and X crystals and the Champion - X+Y+Z gold, X+Y+Z wood, X+Y+Z ore and X+Y crystals. If this is not plain standardization in its most boring form, I don't know what is.

kodial79
12-02-2010, 01:37 PM
New games in long running series are supposed to add more content and depth to the game world, not taking away from it or simplifying it.

If the arguement here is that some of the rare resources were useless for certain factions in the long run; then the game developers should have come up with ways to make them useful instead of removing them in their entirety.

6 creatures in the line-up and now less resources too? They better come up with ground-breaking novelties to compensate us for it. And here I was hoping that there would be even more, not less...

SwampLord450
12-02-2010, 06:23 PM
Oh, they're calling crystals "dragon blood crystals"? :\

I was hoping we'd move a little more away from the DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS of HV in HVI.

Why not just call them crystals? Dragon blood crystals doesn't make much sense.

And I *do* hope they stick to individual dwellings, they were very characterful and a great way to beautify the town screen. If there's only a core and an elite dwelling towns will feel very, very empty.

@Kodial-There's still 7 creatures per town. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Elodin
12-02-2010, 07:18 PM
dragon blood crystals

Yes, that is wierd. I don't know why dragon blood is required to build Haven's "Glory" unit or other non-dragon units. It is kind of similar to "dragon shards" being used to produce units in the D&D RTS game that never caught on.

wdcryer
12-02-2010, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Xenofex_086:
And as pointed already, the wood and ore sites provide +2 per day, not +1 and thus compensate for the greater wood/ore building requirements.
I don't know what maps you are playing on and on what difficulties, but on a regular L/XL random map on Impossible difficulty where your starting resources are 0, 0, 0, etc.

You'd usually need a lot more than twice as much wood and ore as most others (often 4x or 5x), and I imagine they'll balance the game around normal. But you make a very good point that on harder difficulties this is more of an issue. It becomes harder to take all of the mines early on. Maybe they think the risk of gimping unlucky players from very early on is too unstable or something.

But, perhaps they could salvage some of that by making it more about getting more than one of each mine. For example, you could have one crystal mine, but two would allow you to develop at a better pace. It's not the same, I know, but it presents a challenge.


Originally posted by GoranXII:
True, but that's only those prices, it hardly ties down a new game to the same issues does it?

You're right, it doesn't. They could change a lot around, with all the other changes they are making to the series.

wdcryer
12-02-2010, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by SwampLord450:
Oh, they're calling crystals "dragon blood crystals"? :\

I was hoping we'd move a little more away from the DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS of HV in HVI.

Why not just call them crystals? Dragon blood crystals doesn't make much sense.

I know I saw an explanation of this in one of the interviews, but I don't really care about the lore enough to remember. At least they don't take the number 7 slot in tons of towns anymore!

SwampLord450
12-02-2010, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by wdcryer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SwampLord450:
Oh, they're calling crystals "dragon blood crystals"? :\

I was hoping we'd move a little more away from the DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS of HV in HVI.

Why not just call them crystals? Dragon blood crystals doesn't make much sense.

I know I saw an explanation of this in one of the interviews, but I don't really care about the lore enough to remember. At least they don't take the number 7 slot in tons of towns anymore! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any chance you could link me? I'd be interested to see how they explain it, and also how they're going to work it into the lore if HV, 400 years later, has the traditional range of HoMM resources.

wdcryer
12-07-2010, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by SwampLord450:
Any chance you could link me?
Heroes FAQ (http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=24719)


What about Dragonblood "mines"? Is there a real explanation about them?
YES. During the War of Ancients, the Dragon Gods spilled blood on the world of Ashan creating nexus of powers called Dragon Veins. The inhabitants of Ashan have learnt how to extract the blood, hence the creation of mines.

I think this is where I read it first. It is translated from a French website.

SwampLord450
12-07-2010, 10:11 AM
Hmmm, interesting. I'm kind of disappointed that they're still using the word "Dragon" far too much, but no big deal.

Also, when he said Luck makes you deal max or minimal damage, do you think that was a mistranslation? It's always made you do double or half damage in every past game.

wdcryer
12-07-2010, 01:21 PM
The original French is "La chance apportera un dommage maximisť ou minimisť." so it looks like the translation would be "The chance to bring damage maximum or minimum." Maybe they've changed the system. I wouldn't mind that if it triggers more often. It is a rather short answer, though, so maybe he left out or forgot the details.

SwampLord450
12-07-2010, 01:45 PM
Hmmmm, yeah. It would just seem a little redundant, what with Mass Bless/Righteous Might and Mass Curse.