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Treetop64
12-06-2005, 09:48 PM
Well, I'm making steady progress on the machine, so here's the skinny on the hardware thus far:

> Chassis - SilverStone TJ06:
205mm x 566mm x 474mm (WxHxD). Aluminium Front Panel. 120mm and 80mm Intake Fans, 120mm Exhaust Fan, all at 2200 RPM and 21 dBA. Customized 120mm CPU Wind Tunnel.

> Motherboard - ASUS P5LD2 Deluxe w/AI Life Package:
Intel 945P and ICH7R Chipsets. 2 x PCI-E x16, 1 PCI-E x1, and 3 PCI slots. RAID 0, RAID 1, RAID 5, RAID 10, and Intel Matrix Storage Technology compatible (This enables RAID 0+1 configuration while only requiring two hard drives, instead of four drives required for the RAID 0+1 configuration). Dual-Core CPU Ready. WiFi-TV Enabled.

> CPU - Intel 670 Pentium 4 at 3.8 GHz:
800 MHz FSB, 2 MB L2 Cache. Intel EM64T (64 bit support), EIST (Enhanced Speed Step Technology), and Hyper-Threading.

> Hard Disk - Two (2) Western Digital Drives @ 250 GB each:
Serial ATA 300 MB/s. 7200 RPM. 16 MB cache.

> RAM - Kingston E5108AE-GE-E:
DDR2-667 MHz. Two Pair Dual-Channel Memory Configuration (4 GB RAM).

...And that's the stack so far.

I must say that I've already learned an awful lot about this stuff just by doing the pre-purchase research, and reading the manuals. This has been a tremendous educational experience for me.

The input from you guys has helped a lot, too. Thanks!

Now, I know a lot of you are thinking, "Why is he going Intel instead of AMD?", but trust me, I have reasons for using Intel. Besides, considering the quality of the rig that's being built, I don't think I'll be at any disadvantage for it. Moreover, it will be used for much more than games, though I'm placing an emphasis on simming and graphical/audio power.

Which brings me to my dilemma:

I need help deciding on a graphics card and sound card.

I was dead-set on ATI's X850 series, then on either their X1800 or X1600 cards. Now I'm torn between the ATI "X-teens" and the GeForce 7800 GTX w/512 MB. I understand that either of these cards are smokin'. Whatever it is, it must be PCI-E configured. Any word from you guys is welcomed and appreciated.

While I'm setting up for 5.1 surround sound, I know absolutely nothing about sound cards themselves, as I've always used the onboard sound boards (they've been quite good, actually!). Please help me in "De-Idiotizing" myself of this subject!

Thanks for your interest!

-HH-Quazi
12-06-2005, 10:12 PM
Well, the X1800XT is out with 512Mb also. So the choice comes down to what you are comfortable running. The 7800GTX is a proven card and there are even a few around here running it, although I don't think anyone is running the 512Mb version. And I am sure the X1800XT 512Mb card will rock as well.

Personally, I think these cards are a bit of overkill for this sim. The only reason I would consider one is because I would like to run with PS3 and that would mean the 7800GTX. But as of now, my X850XT PE is running all settings maxed out and in Perfect Landscape avg. 52 fps in the BD track. So if saving $$$ interests you, I would look into the X850XT PE or the 6800 Ultra. Monarch Computer has a X850XT PE for $300 right now. I belive it is either a Connect 3D or a PowerColor. Can't beat that I don't think.

As far as sound goes, looks like Audigy 2 or Turtle Beach Santa Cruz are great cards for overall super sound.

mortoma
12-07-2005, 10:39 AM
I favor AMD for myself but I built a machine for my brother last Xmas with the Intel 3.4Ghz pinless processor and it really screams, he likes it. He had all the fanciest stuff at the time. You would not be sorry with either an Intel or an AMD IMO.

lbhskier37
12-07-2005, 11:21 AM
If you want the fastest card then the 7800GTX 512mb is the only choice. It costs quite a bit, but is the fastest card you can buy by a pretty good margin. If the only game you play is this one I would go with a 7800Gt because you can get one for under $300 now after rebates.

For audio get a Creative X-fi, they are a big jump from anything else out there.

CRSutton
12-07-2005, 12:20 PM
25 years ago, my biggest concern was "homegrown"

Now my biggest concern is laying out my own "homebuilt" after Christmas. My, things have changed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Treetop64
12-08-2005, 08:12 PM
The GeForce is talkin' to me...

And so is my wallet!

That's going to be a tough choice, going with either ATI or GeForce. The graphics card is my nest step, so I better make up my mind.

Airmail109
12-09-2005, 04:04 PM
Oh god no not an intel....get an AMD FX 57 or X2 4800+.....both are much better for gaming!

The AMDs, dual core is a hell of a lot better, i was reading something about the Intel dual core not being designed as one from the ground up or something.....anyway its slower + they are more expensive

Phil_C
12-09-2005, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
Well, the X1800XT is out with 512Mb also. So the choice comes down to what you are comfortable running. The 7800GTX is a proven card and there are even a few around here running it, although I don't think anyone is running the 512Mb version. And I am sure the X1800XT 512Mb card will rock as well.

Personally, I think these cards are a bit of overkill for this sim. The only reason I would consider one is because I would like to run with PS3 and that would mean the 7800GTX. But as of now, my X850XT PE is running all settings maxed out and in Perfect Landscape avg. 52 fps in the BD track. So if saving $$$ interests you, I would look into the X850XT PE or the 6800 Ultra. Monarch Computer has a X850XT PE for $300 right now. I belive it is either a Connect 3D or a PowerColor. Can't beat that I don't think.

As far as sound goes, looks like Audigy 2 or Turtle Beach Santa Cruz are great cards for overall super sound.

Um dont be so sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif when my new comp arrives next week i will be running it, 2 of them in fact... see below for the rest of my 'puter system

fraidycat1
12-09-2005, 08:14 PM
I was shocked how good the X_fi sounds!
I didnt know you could get that kind of sound from a puter. (so good i moved my stereo system out to the shop)
Sounds like a real nice system your building, good luck w/ it.

-HH-Quazi
12-09-2005, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Phil_C:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
Well, the X1800XT is out with 512Mb also. So the choice comes down to what you are comfortable running. The 7800GTX is a proven card and there are even a few around here running it, although I don't think anyone is running the 512Mb version. And I am sure the X1800XT 512Mb card will rock as well.

Personally, I think these cards are a bit of overkill for this sim. The only reason I would consider one is because I would like to run with PS3 and that would mean the 7800GTX. But as of now, my X850XT PE is running all settings maxed out and in Perfect Landscape avg. 52 fps in the BD track. So if saving $$$ interests you, I would look into the X850XT PE or the 6800 Ultra. Monarch Computer has a X850XT PE for $300 right now. I belive it is either a Connect 3D or a PowerColor. Can't beat that I don't think.

As far as sound goes, looks like Audigy 2 or Turtle Beach Santa Cruz are great cards for overall super sound.

Um dont be so sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif when my new comp arrives next week i will be running it, 2 of them in fact... see below for the rest of my 'puter system </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Geesh! What a ride you will have to. Two 7800GTX 512Mb cards. Incredible! I mean I am content with what I am running now. But the thought of PS3 and high eye candy settings and great fr's really has me thinking Nvidia for the future. Could you post some Black Death track bench numbers and your settings when you get your new rig up and running?

Treetop64
12-09-2005, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Oh god no not an intel....get an AMD FX 57 or X2 4800+.....both are much better for gaming!

The AMDs, dual core is a hell of a lot better, i was reading something about the Intel dual core not being designed as one from the ground up or something.....anyway its slower + they are more expensive

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I respect that!

Realize though that just because one is running dual core hardware in their system doesn't mean that any applications cycling through the registers are going to be processed twice as fast. DC architecture comes into it's own when there are multiple applications running similtaneously, i.e. one application running through one core whilst another application runs through the second, without any stutters, hiccups, stalls, hangs, or any other adverse effect. This can become particularly useful with comprehensive video and music production and editing. Also if the system will process the home's integrated entertainment system, among other things...

Virtually all PC game software available now, should it be run in a DC system, would have absolutely no idea that a second processor is there to share the load. The software must be coded to recognize the existance of two cores, and correspondingly be coded to sort itself out to take advantage of that. Games today are better run on powerful single core systems than dual core systems.

If you were running Pacific Fighters on a DC system, Pacific Fighters would effectively use only half the processing power available. Same goes for FS2004 and many others. Now, if you were running Pacific Fighters and Silent Hunter III at the same time (for whatever reason!) in a DC system, then you're good to go as PF cycles through one core while SHIII runs through the second, both as smoothly as if they were running by themselves on separate systems!

However, present-day DC processors are comparitively weak when compared to their top-tiered single core counterparts, and that goes for both AMD and Intel. That's why I decided on a 2 MB, 3.8 GHz processor rather than using a 1 MB, 3.2 GHz processor that makes one-half of Intel's top-line DC setup. That's my personal preference.

Besides, it will be mated to a motherboard that will maximize the performance of the processor, (possesing the Intel 945P and ICH7R chipsets), have more than enough fast RAM, and will be stroked along by the baddest video card I could possibly pay for. With that package, the system will absolutely scream. At that point, it's pointless to mull over whether or not it's an Intel or AMD. Both are good processors, but it's the whole package that ultimately determines how screamin' a system is.

I think I've more than made my point, so I'll shut-up now! ^_^

Phil_C
12-09-2005, 10:08 PM
Sure will -HH-Quazi ! The latest ship date i got was monday actually, so hopefully thurday the latest i will have it warmed up and ready to go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Treetop64
12-09-2005, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Phil_C:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
Well, the X1800XT is out with 512Mb also. So the choice comes down to what you are comfortable running. The 7800GTX is a proven card and there are even a few around here running it, although I don't think anyone is running the 512Mb version. And I am sure the X1800XT 512Mb card will rock as well.

Personally, I think these cards are a bit of overkill for this sim. The only reason I would consider one is because I would like to run with PS3 and that would mean the 7800GTX. But as of now, my X850XT PE is running all settings maxed out and in Perfect Landscape avg. 52 fps in the BD track. So if saving $$$ interests you, I would look into the X850XT PE or the 6800 Ultra. Monarch Computer has a X850XT PE for $300 right now. I belive it is either a Connect 3D or a PowerColor. Can't beat that I don't think.

As far as sound goes, looks like Audigy 2 or Turtle Beach Santa Cruz are great cards for overall super sound.

Um dont be so sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif when my new comp arrives next week i will be running it, 2 of them in fact... see below for the rest of my 'puter system </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Geesh! What a ride you will have to. Two 7800GTX 512Mb cards. Incredible! I mean I am content with what I am running now. But the thought of PS3 and high eye candy settings and great fr's really has me thinking Nvidia for the future. Could you post some Black Death track bench numbers and your settings when you get your new rig up and running? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. I'm interested in seeing that, too! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Phil_C
12-09-2005, 10:55 PM
Sure thing! Im sure that a lot of people will be curious as to what it can do, so i will make a list of some games i have (FSACOF,SH3, Sierra's NASCAR2k3,SW BF1 and 2, etc) and max the graphics out, and start snapping pics for everyone with framerates.

im anticipating seeing how this, SH3 and how LockOn look and run on the new system the most.

Treetop64
12-09-2005, 11:26 PM
Hey Phil, I noticed that your system is as ambitious as mine! Except you went with the DC setup while I'm sticking with the SC processor for now.

It will be interesting to see how our systems compare once we get them up and running. Should be fun! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
12-10-2005, 07:45 AM
atleast ull be warm this winter with that intel processor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Phil_C
12-10-2005, 09:40 AM
Idk why people are so seadfast in trying to get people over from Intel to AMD, but i had an AMD once, and never again. That was my worst system ever- nothing but problems, and it was so sloooow. so as much as theres data saying that one is better than the other, in the matter of personal preference, im sticking with Intel..

plus i chose liquid cooling and ive never noticed any major increase in room temp from my computer.

Treetop64
12-10-2005, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
atleast ull be warm this winter with that intel processor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Yuk yuk yuk!

Yooooou're funny!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stansdds
12-10-2005, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Phil_C:
Idk why people are so seadfast in trying to get people over from Intel to AMD, but i had an AMD once, and never again. That was my worst system ever- nothing but problems, and it was so sloooow. so as much as theres data saying that one is better than the other, in the matter of personal preference, im sticking with Intel..

plus i chose liquid cooling and ive never noticed any major increase in room temp from my computer.

Yeah, I had a bad experience with AMD too, the K6-400, I think that's what it was. I went back to Intel and their Pentium III - 550e, pretty close to top of the line at the time. For this system I went with AMD and their lovely socket 939. I chose the A64- 3500+ and couldn't be happier. AMD has come a long way.

john_bilbrey
12-12-2005, 07:46 AM
A single pair of DIMMs will be faster than two pairs in a Dual Channel setup...
Maybe too late now, but you would see best performance with (2) 2GB DIMMS rather than (4) 1GB DIMMS

Treetop64
12-12-2005, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by john_bilbrey:
A single pair of DIMMs will be faster than two pairs in a Dual Channel setup...
Maybe too late now, but you would see best performance with (2) 2GB DIMMS rather than (4) 1GB DIMMS

Thanks, John!

I actually found out about that when reading the board manual recently, that if two pair are installed, less than 4 gigs of RAM will actually be used, and the access rate is lower. I don't remember the details, though.

Anyhow, I took a pair back for a friendly and prompt refund. Besides, 2 gigs of RAM will still be more than enough breathing space for now and the future.

Fritzofn
12-12-2005, 01:33 PM
everything looks sweet....until i read this line:

CPU: Intel....


IEK, RUN AWAY !!!!