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View Full Version : Why German WWII warbird don't has a "MIRROR"



karost
03-30-2007, 12:37 AM
I have a noob question ,
why UK or US install mirror in side WWII warbird's
cockpit for pilot to make check six ,but german's plane don't ?

S!

KIMURA
03-30-2007, 12:54 AM
Because Allied pilots were too lazy to turn the head. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ruy Horta
03-30-2007, 12:56 AM
Because few actually carried one...

The main examples I've seen were carried on Emils, during the Battle of Britain. I'm sure I can dig up a few more, but that's beside the point.

Kurfurst__
03-30-2007, 12:58 AM
Generally mirrors were pretty useless because of the vibrations of the airframe, you would spot the enemy only when he is already in firing position.

A few German types had rear mirrors, there are pictures of some 109Es being fitted with them, but this seems to be generally not preferred, and did not appear on later variants esp. as mirrors cause quite a bit of drag for such a small installation. They also thought in teams-of-two tactics, where the wingman was supposed to guard the rear of the leader (the attacker), so my guess is that they simply seen it ineffective and unneccesary.

Skycat_2
03-30-2007, 01:18 AM
The above answers are much better than what I found:

"Gunther Rall made the statement about mirrors in a wings docu on the Me109. they werent that good, as the vibration of the machine and such wasnt that good..."
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-8857.html

"The pilot has a rear view mirror."
http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/meltingpot/lightsey/28/machines/ME109.html

leitmotiv
03-30-2007, 01:56 AM
All this above is intuitive or hearsay. I recall seeing quite a few mirrors mounted inside the windscreen, just below the centerline, of Bf 110s of the 1940 period. Now this is very interesting because most of the 110s of this era did not have back armor, thus, the pilot had unobstructed visibility to the rear (except for the body of the radioman/gunner/cannon loader) yet they also wanted to have the benefit of a rear-view mirror.

Bremspropeller
03-30-2007, 01:58 AM
rear mirror = more drag = teh sux

Waldo.Pepper
03-30-2007, 02:19 AM
The mirror would have been blocked by the heavy framing of the damn canopy! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

slipBall
03-30-2007, 02:27 AM
They were tried on the 109, but vibrated too much as to be useless

alert_1
03-30-2007, 02:43 AM
The fast boom&zoomers dont need f**** mirrors, except of La 7 of course... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

F19_Olli72
03-30-2007, 03:23 AM
Interestingly, i've seen mirrors on a Stuka as well.

ViktorViktor
03-30-2007, 03:28 AM
It sounds like mirrors in IL2 are modelled incorrectly, or Allied mirrors were superior to Axis (that is, they didn't vibrate).

Who knows about Allied mirrors here ?

Matz0r
03-30-2007, 03:32 AM
To quote a WWII pilot whos name I've forgot, something like;

"When you see an enemy fighter in the mirror it's already too late."

stalkervision
03-30-2007, 07:36 AM
Adolph Galland has a telescope fitted to his 109e. Does that count for anything? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Deedsundone
03-30-2007, 07:51 AM
Simple,the german aviators was not so vain. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

carguy_
03-30-2007, 07:56 AM
I wanted to fill in but I see Bremspropeller already nailed it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LStarosta
03-30-2007, 08:27 AM
Germans are superhuman.

They feel the enemy.

leitmotiv
03-30-2007, 10:27 AM
P.S. The production version of the Do 335B was supposed to have rear view mirrors fitted in blisters on each side of the canopy hood the way mirrors were mounted in the F4U-1 "birdcage" canopy. Note: mirrors were never standard features on AAF fighters, except for the P-38. They were all field mods. One P-51D unit famously used bullet-shaped chrome auto rear view mirrors. Only the RAF made mirrors a standard fitting from 1940 onwards, and the USN made them standard in the Wildcat, Corsair, and Hellcat.

Covino
03-30-2007, 11:01 AM
I can understand why mirrors may have been useless on these aircraft after trying to find a right one to fit on my motorcycle. Unless the mirror is big enough (which is unlikely in the crampt German cockpits), you don't really get good field of vision at all, unless you make it convex, but this makes the images on the mirror too small to even make out an aircraft 300 yards behind you. Add in vibration and well...

leitmotiv
03-30-2007, 11:13 AM
I wonder about this vibration thing. If a fighter vibrated enough to make a mirror unusble, it would also make a reflector gunsight unusable, and, in fact, would make reading instruments impossible. I think this is a canard. A mirror is indispensable when you are about to make a shot, and you want to take a quick glance at your six; swinging your head around may lose your visual lock, but a quick glance above is not likely to do so. At least in "game world", if I see a flutter of wings behind me in my mirror, I can usually pull delection to avoid getting creamed---if you glance into the mirror and see an airplane straight and level right behind you, you are likely screwed.

BSS_Goat
03-30-2007, 11:15 AM
Because Germans were always on the offense, defense and mirrors are for little girls.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Abbuzze
03-30-2007, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I wonder about this vibration thing. If a fighter vibrated enough to make a mirror unusble, it would also make a reflector gunsight unusable, and, in fact, would make reading instruments impossible.

You don´t need a lot of vibrations to make a rearview mirror useless. My old BMW flattwin vibrated enough to do this. I remember a tour with some friends. In a rainy night the only way to take a look at my mates behind I had to clutch and reduce the rpm to get a "clear" vision. I think it is more a problem of resonance because the mirrors were fit at the top of the windcreen bars. Maybe also the air let the mirrors vibrate because of turbulences. Gunsight and instruments are much more fixed.

R_Target
03-30-2007, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
the USN made them standard in the Wildcat, Corsair, and Hellcat.

Yup. I don't think drag was a problem with the mirror inside the canopy.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4755/ocafter1stkillinf6fvf38sq6.jpg

I've only read a couple anecdotes where USN pilots mention them though.

karost
03-30-2007, 03:44 PM
Well Gentleman, Thanks for all of you for share your idea and info.

for my idea,(imho) I think a combat concept for a german's pilot in WWII has a difference way when compare to US or UK.

german's pilot trust in team tactic ( leader and wingman ) they let a leader pay 100% focus in target while wingman take care his six.

and mirror still has a blind sport area.
in history of WWII airwar, as we knows 80~90% of air victory come from surprise attack.

what point that make US and UK still trust in mirror for that time ? I don't know why.

S!

The-Pizza-Man
03-30-2007, 05:29 PM
anything that improves your chance of spotting the attack and evading is probably worth while. That's why the the allies introduced bubble canopies. It cost a little speed and lateral stability but it was worth the cost.

Jaws2002
03-30-2007, 05:44 PM
The 190 at least has awesome rear visibility. I don't think the mirror was that important for that type.

leitmotiv
03-30-2007, 05:55 PM
One more thing, if the mirrors were as useless as some suggest, this doesn't explain RAF pilots buying mirrors with their own money and having them fitted prior to their being made standard---it was the clamor for them on unit level which moved the Air Ministry to make them standard fittings. Same for the AAF pilots who bought and installed automotive rear-view mirrors on their P-51s and P-47s. Even bubble canopy P-51Ds had bullet-shaped automotive mirrors fitted in one unit.

I think some think it couldn't have value if it wasn't used by the Germans---typical assumption anything German is superior---what a larf!

MB80
03-30-2007, 10:18 PM
leitmotiv, why do you think RAF pilots were superior with the mirror? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
There's one simply fact, there were pilots who prefered B&Z and high speed, and pilots who were victims of B&Z. So who needs a mirror?

leitmotiv
03-30-2007, 11:26 PM
The Battle of Britain pilots thought mirrors were so valuable they bought them with their own money. The AAF Mustang and Thunderbolt pilots bought mirrors with their own money. To those with a mere ounce of wit this would mean something. I have no interest in ridiculous one side is better than another arguments. I think it is interesting the British and Americans thought mirrors were so important---that's all. I also do not assume that just because the Germans did something one particular way that sets it in concrete that was the only way to do it.

Vertical tactics are part of a pilot's portfolio. Do you really believe there was some kind of silly gamey distinction between such tactics and horizontal tactics during the war? All sides sought height advantage above everything else. All sides sought a slashing ambush. Is this a novel idea to you? Apparently.

Monty_Thrud
03-31-2007, 01:43 AM
I have mirrors on my Motorcycle and i haven't been shot down by a Messerschmitt for years....therefore the mirrors are superior to no mirrors...NEXT!

luftluuver
03-31-2007, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
I have mirrors on my Motorcycle and i haven't been shot down by a Messerschmitt for years....therefore the mirrors are superior to no mirrors...NEXT! You expect a Messershmitt to be able to catch your motorcycle? (see sig) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jermin122
03-31-2007, 10:54 AM
but why spit, jug and mustang dont vibrate in game?

jermin122
03-31-2007, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by Abbuzze:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I wonder about this vibration thing. If a fighter vibrated enough to make a mirror unusble, it would also make a reflector gunsight unusable, and, in fact, would make reading instruments impossible.

You don´t need a lot of vibrations to make a rearview mirror useless. My old BMW flattwin vibrated enough to do this. I remember a tour with some friends. In a rainy night the only way to take a look at my mates behind I had to clutch and reduce the rpm to get a "clear" vision. I think it is more a problem of resonance because the mirrors were fit at the top of the windcreen bars. Maybe also the air let the mirrors vibrate because of turbulences. Gunsight and instruments are much more fixed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
agree

RegRag1977
03-31-2007, 11:23 AM
Hi guys,

In fact germans did use mirrors, at least on one Messerschmitt 109 model, as far as i know.

Over Normandy in 1944, i think there were some Photo Recon 109s fitted with cameras, that used to have a rectangular mirror on the top of their early G model canopy. These were said to be useful for the lonely pilot to check quickly his six while concentrating hard on the objectives he had to photograph.
I cannot remember if these 109s were G4 or G8 (maybe both)version of the famous fighter, but it was modified with Mw50, extra belly armor to protect the camera, and larger prop blades for altitude performance. Machines guns were also removed so armement was only the Mauser 20mm.

But what i'm sure of is that they were used at least by the 4.(F)/123 (aufklrungsgruppe), one of the five Luftwaffe Reco squadrons that used to operate over Normandy in spring 1944.

I think we need Krfurst now for further info http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PS: i hope that there will be some Photo/Reco mission in BOB, that would be soooo nice!

Abbuzze
04-01-2007, 03:56 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
One more thing, if the mirrors were as useless as some suggest, this doesn't explain RAF pilots buying mirrors with their own money and having them fitted prior to their being made standard---it was the clamor for them on unit level which moved the Air Ministry to make them standard fittings. Same for the AAF pilots who bought and installed automotive rear-view mirrors on their P-51s and P-47s. Even bubble canopy P-51Ds had bullet-shaped automotive mirrors fitted in one unit.

I think some think it couldn't have value if it wasn't used by the Germans---typical assumption anything German is superior---what a larf!

I think this is also a psychological thing. Adding mirrors gave you feeling of savety - If this give you a bonus in saving your life, is a different thing. If you read books by german fighter pilots they mostly flew surpising attacks for the lower rear side - no mirror will help then.

They will maybe help in certain situatins, but I won´t bet my live for them.

Kurfurst__
04-01-2007, 04:30 AM
I think it's just leitmotiv. He is consumed by this superior/inferior way of thinking and can't look at it otherwise.

Ironically, the same guy who's making noise here was foaming in the mouth not so long ago... :


Originally posted by leitmotiv:
The low-velocity 5" with proximity-fuzed shells and two 40mm Bofors trumped anything fielded by the Kriegsmarine's boats. ... As a matter of fact, the bloody USN and RN were superior to the wretched Kriegsmarine, that's why they got their clocks cleaned rather nastily, and the sub arm was nearly annihilated, but such details would not be apparent to an amateur-bore-Germanofile-pest. G'day, twerp.

You get the attitude. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It's simply doesn't worth to bother with such zealotrious, fanatic clowns. I simply put their input onto an ignore list, it's much nicer that way. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

luftluuver
04-01-2007, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
I think it's just leitmotiv. He is consumed by this superior/inferior way of thinking and can't look at it otherwise.

Ironically, the same guy who's making noise here was foaming in the mouth not so long ago... :

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
The low-velocity 5" with proximity-fuzed shells and two 40mm Bofors trumped anything fielded by the Kriegsmarine's boats. ... As a matter of fact, the bloody USN and RN were superior to the wretched Kriegsmarine, that's why they got their clocks cleaned rather nastily, and the sub arm was nearly annihilated, but such details would not be apparent to an amateur-bore-Germanofile-pest. G'day, twerp.

You get the attitude. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It's simply doesn't worth to bother with such zealotrious, fanatic clowns. I simply put their input onto an ignore list, it's much nicer that way. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif, the kettle, aka the uber Nazi Germany, aka Kurfurst, calling the pot black. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Blutarski2004
04-01-2007, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
I think it's just leitmotiv. He is consumed by this superior/inferior way of thinking and can't look at it otherwise.

Ironically, the same guy who's making noise here was foaming in the mouth not so long ago... :

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
The low-velocity 5" with proximity-fuzed shells and two 40mm Bofors trumped anything fielded by the Kriegsmarine's boats. ... As a matter of fact, the bloody USN and RN were superior to the wretched Kriegsmarine, that's why they got their clocks cleaned rather nastily, and the sub arm was nearly annihilated, but such details would not be apparent to an amateur-bore-Germanofile-pest. G'day, twerp.

You get the attitude. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It's simply doesn't worth to bother with such zealotrious, fanatic clowns. I simply put their input onto an ignore list, it's much nicer that way. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif, the kettle, aka the uber Nazi Germany, aka Kurfurst, calling the pot black. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... Yeah, basically same old same old.

Kurfurst__
04-01-2007, 03:34 PM
Two rabid dogs, barking in concerto, how lovely. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

joeap
04-01-2007, 03:36 PM
Stuff like this makes me hate this site and I ask myself, why waste my time?

MB80
04-01-2007, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by jermin122:
but why spit, jug and mustang dont vibrate in game?
Interesting point. Don't know why axis planes have a problem with alot of vibration... why a Gustav is shaking around and a LA-5/7 not if you use the cannons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

WB_Outlaw
04-01-2007, 07:01 PM
Vibration at the mirror doesn't mean that the whole aircraft is shaking like a tuning fork. It's entirely possible that the forward portion of the canopy on some aircraft experienced more high frequency vibration than the same point on other aircraft, thus rendering a mirror attached at that point less than useful. In no way does this imply that any other parts of the airframe experienced the same effects.

--Outlaw.

luftluuver
04-01-2007, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Two rabid dogs, barking in concerto, how lovely. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The only person people see frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog is you Kurfurst. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif Until the Mods cease with the preferential status they give him, we will have to put up with such.

Yes joeap, it was a rather nice thread until Kurfurst went on one of his usual rants.

BfHeFwMe
04-01-2007, 08:54 PM
Every German military man had a mirror as standard kit issued, along with lipstick, in his makeup bag. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Pirschjaeger
04-01-2007, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
Every German military man had a mirror as standard kit issued, along with lipstick, in his makeup bag. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

That'll explain the late war allied/axis plane ratios. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Blutarski2004
04-02-2007, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Two rabid dogs, barking in concerto, how lovely. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


..... yet more of the same old same old.

Kurfurst__
04-02-2007, 09:22 AM
Well ain't that wonderful when such like-minded souls, being so closely matched in their emotional and intellectual qualities, join their powers and reveal the true meaning of the question at hand at it's greatest depths, over and over again, to everyone's delight!

MEGILE
04-02-2007, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Well ain't that wonderful when such like-minded souls, being so closely matched in their emotional and intellectual qualities, join their powers and reveal the true meaning of the question at hand at it's greatest depths, over and over again, to everyone's delight!

Agree 100%

How dare they question the BF-109 desgin.

Blutarski2004
04-02-2007, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Well ain't that wonderful when such like-minded souls, being so closely matched in their emotional and intellectual qualities, join their powers and reveal the true meaning of the question at hand at it's greatest depths, over and over again, to everyone's delight!


..... You might think so, Kurfurst. But, frankly speaking, I find you and Bellator to be rather off-putting at times.

joeap
04-02-2007, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by MB80:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jermin122:
but why spit, jug and mustang dont vibrate in game?
Interesting point. Don't know why axis planes have a problem with alot of vibration... why a Gustav is shaking around and a LA-5/7 not if you use the cannons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BS x 1000

All planes vibrate when shooting. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Blutarski2004
04-02-2007, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB80:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jermin122:
but why spit, jug and mustang dont vibrate in game?
Interesting point. Don't know why axis planes have a problem with alot of vibration... why a Gustav is shaking around and a LA-5/7 not if you use the cannons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BS x 1000

All planes vibrate when shooting. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... I only mention this because I ran into it last night, but the US 1946 Material Command report on the 190D9 mentioned that real vibration did not manifest itself in the cockpit until 375 mph indicated air speed. That = a pretty fast TAS at altitude.

Well ... apart from firing its cannons, but then the pilot is not looking at his rear-view mirror at that point ... ;-]

Kurfurst__
04-02-2007, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
Agree 100%

How dare they question the BF-109 desgin.

I don't think anyone did that here, Megile. It was simply noted that altough the Germans toyed with mirrors on some planes, appearantly they did not prefer it much, possibly because of their tactical doctrine and limited usefullness of the mirrors themselves. That's just a vague guess, of course. Some souls seem to read into that a statement about German superiority, but really it is more telling of their own way of thinking than anything else IMHO. And, of course, some people are only here to make noise, and not to discuss the subject.

Gibbage1
04-03-2007, 01:42 AM
Maybe the uber German engineers forgot about rubber dapening mounts to help clean up there very rough engines. Or at least rubber dapeners on the stinkin rear view mirrors! I guess they just dont want to get a good view of there rear bulk head in a 109, since thats about all they would see with the lack of a bubble canopy.

luftluuver
04-03-2007, 01:46 AM
Only if the mirror was installed on the inside of the canopy Gibbige. Would it then be classed as a vanity mirror? (that is the mirror on the car passenger's sun visor)

WTE_Ibis
04-03-2007, 02:20 AM
There are a few people here that should take a long hard look in their mirror because it
seems to me that there lies their problem. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

.

Ubi_Rickas
04-03-2007, 03:23 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Two rabid dogs, barking in concerto, how lovely. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kurfurst please check your PM's.

jermin122
04-03-2007, 03:43 AM
Originally posted by MB80:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jermin122:
but why spit, jug and mustang dont vibrate in game?
Interesting point. Don't know why axis planes have a problem with alot of vibration... why a Gustav is shaking around and a LA-5/7 not if you use the cannons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe it's because of air turbulence which is not modeled in this game.

M_Gunz
04-03-2007, 04:10 AM
I put 37000 miles on motorcycles that the handlebars vibrated always when riding, it took a
few days to get used to. Almost at the ends of the handlebars were two thin stalks with the
mirrors which also vibrated even more.
But guess what? Even sooner I was used to that and had NO TROUBLE seeing in them far behind
me what traffic was doing. Same goes for every good rider I knew, and I knew many.
Perhaps some people only ever had terribly wobbly mirror mounts. Perhaps only certain kinds
of minds cannot adjust. Some minds, flicker causes seizures as well. Adaptability.

And then are the people who never did or never got past adapting who want to tell people like
me how what I saw and did is impossible. BTW, one of my cousins rode a BMW while I had my
first Yamaha and not only did it vibrate much less but put both running side by side and the
only one you would hear was mine, the only one I noticed vibrating was mine. He never had any
trouble seeing behind in his mirrors either. He is half German while I am not so no, it is
not about nationality.

If there were pilots that bought and mounted mirrors then be sure (or be a stubborn idiot)
that those things did give a view behind and were not useless. You tell a buddy how good
something is, it better be or he will make jokes about it for a long time -- at least in
the free world.

joeap
04-03-2007, 05:09 AM
Originally posted by jermin122:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB80:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jermin122:
but why spit, jug and mustang dont vibrate in game?
Interesting point. Don't know why axis planes have a problem with alot of vibration... why a Gustav is shaking around and a LA-5/7 not if you use the cannons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe it's because of air turbulence which is not modeled in this game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif ???

Zonama
04-03-2007, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Skycat_2:

"The pilot has a rear view mirror."
http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/meltingpot/lightsey/28/machines/ME109.html

Hah, I saw that very plane on Friday http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif