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Uncle_Stranger
12-14-2010, 07:04 AM
Hello. I would like to ask about the difference between the HVAR and AP HVAR. Is there any difference between them in game at all?

JG53Frankyboy
12-14-2010, 08:29 AM
AP is ArmourPiercing.
the "normal" ones have a HighExplosive warhead.

same difference with the soviet rockets:
RS are HE , BRS are AP

Uufflakke
12-14-2010, 09:07 AM
In case you want to know some more specs about ordnance take a look here:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...9310655/m/7381005836 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/7381005836)

M2morris
12-14-2010, 04:19 PM
AP look more ominous but If there's a difference in how well they destroy things in the game I haven't noticed it either.

VW-IceFire
12-14-2010, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by M2morris:
AP look more ominous but If there's a difference in how well they destroy things in the game I haven't noticed it either.
The AP rockets are more likely to kill a heavy tank than the GP versions of the HVAR. The HVAR are powerful enough in general to kill most tanks but the AP ones appear to have extra punch - purely subjective testing but that's how I select between the two.

The AP ones definitely have a smaller radius that they affect so I do not use them against light targets.

M2morris
12-14-2010, 04:31 PM
All these years Iv'e never went and done some serious testing on that issue. I think I'll go do some tank busting testing.

Uncle_Stranger
12-15-2010, 03:58 AM
Thanks for the answers. The reason I'm asking is because I tried both versions against a submarine and I hit it with all 6 HVAR's and didn't damage it all. Or so it seemed.

Don't you think that HVAR should sink a sub?

EDIT: I just ran some more tests and managed to sink German VIIC submarine but only after sent all 6 AP rockets into the sub. Shouldn't AP HVARS sink submarine faster?

VW-IceFire
12-15-2010, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by Uncle_Stranger:
Thanks for the answers. The reason I'm asking is because I tried both versions against a submarine and I hit it with all 6 HVAR's and didn't damage it all. Or so it seemed.

Don't you think that HVAR should sink a sub?

EDIT: I just ran some more tests and managed to sink German VIIC submarine but only after sent all 6 AP rockets into the sub. Shouldn't AP HVARS sink submarine faster?
Historically speaking I'm not sure...even one rocket hit would probably be a huge problem. In IL-2 the key with attacking ships is to either fire everything into the bow, stern, or mid section. That is how the damage model works... once a critical amount of damage is caused to one of these sections the ship will sink.

So in the past you may have hit the sub in various areas and not caused a critical hit required to sink in IL-2 world.

M2morris
12-15-2010, 02:43 PM
I have sank a sub using AP rockets. It was a one of-kind shot. I was never able to do it again.

Whats fun is the Tiny Tim missiles on the F4U1D. Those can sink just about anything that floats in this sim.

jarink
12-15-2010, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Uncle_Stranger:
Thanks for the answers. The reason I'm asking is because I tried both versions against a submarine and I hit it with all 6 HVAR's and didn't damage it all. Or so it seemed.

Don't you think that HVAR should sink a sub?

EDIT: I just ran some more tests and managed to sink German VIIC submarine but only after sent all 6 AP rockets into the sub. Shouldn't AP HVARS sink submarine faster?
Historically speaking I'm not sure...even one rocket hit would probably be a huge problem. In IL-2 the key with attacking ships is to either fire everything into the bow, stern, or mid section. That is how the damage model works... once a critical amount of damage is caused to one of these sections the ship will sink.

So in the past you may have hit the sub in various areas and not caused a critical hit required to sink in IL-2 world. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again historically speaking, rockets were one of the more effective anti-sub weapons. They were lighter than normal bombs and depth charges, easier to aim and had a nasty tendency to punch holes in U-boats, even when partially underwater. Several planes carried them, even Liberators!

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6318/libcc1.jpg

Uncle_Stranger
12-16-2010, 02:56 AM
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. If a rocket could penetrate the armor of German heavy tank, how come that a salvo of rockets doesn't sink a sub?

Anyway, thanks for the answers, now I'm off searching for the-things-that-must-not-be-mentioned, that change the submarine damage models.

VW-IceFire
12-16-2010, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Uncle_Stranger:
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. If a rocket could penetrate the armor of German heavy tank, how come that a salvo of rockets doesn't sink a sub?

Anyway, thanks for the answers, now I'm off searching for the-things-that-must-not-be-mentioned, that change the submarine damage models.
See my response above about sinking subs in IL-2 world.

Ships are sort of an after thought in IL-2. Especially the early ones like the German subs and the various gun boats.

rfxcasey
12-17-2010, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M2morris:
AP look more ominous but If there's a difference in how well they destroy things in the game I haven't noticed it either.
The AP rockets are more likely to kill a heavy tank than the GP versions of the HVAR. The HVAR are powerful enough in general to kill most tanks but the AP ones appear to have extra punch - purely subjective testing but that's how I select between the two.

The AP ones definitely have a smaller radius that they affect so I do not use them against light targets. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 to that. I have found after extensive testing that AP HVAR are more effective at destroying heavy tanks. It can be done with regular HVAR but a direct hit is required if I remember correctly. AP HVAR have a smaller area of effect the standard HVAR so if you are going after AAA you don't have to make as direct a hit to seal the deal. Attacking lines of trucks, cars, parked planes or troops with standard HVAR will definitely get you more points. AP HVAR I believe to be more effective against sea vessels though it is possible to sink them with standard HVAR.

ROXunreal
12-19-2010, 03:34 PM
Just the other day I fired a pair of AP HVAR into a stationary parked aircraft and missed but hit the rockets hit the ground from either side of the plane very close and didn't destroy it. I think they definitely do much less splash damage than HE HVAR, so I think with AP HVAR you need to land direct hits for them to be more effective. Not sure about ships but I would expect AP to be more effective, though you can sink a freighter with 4 HE HVAR hits.

PCsarefussy
12-21-2010, 02:12 AM
Here's a guide on the ships.

Ships that are unarmored and not intended for combat such as the freighters are not armored. Neither are small combatants such as gunboats or destroyers. Anything from light cruiser above will have armor on it, though much thinner than a battleships armor.

Armor piercing rounds of any kind are will do little to no damage on unarmored targets. Firing AP at a freighter in real life, one of two things will happen, either it dosent detonate or just punches through the ship, this is because armor piercing ammunitions job is to punch through armor and do damage to whatevers inside it, on a AP rocket or shell the warhead will require quite a rather hard and 'armory' surface for it to penetrate and detonate. In the game it explodes anyway but it'll do far less damage than a HE rocket. AP are far more effective against medium armored targets such as cruisers and tanks. This is the same with bombs. An AP-2000 will work far better against a battleship than a bunch of buildings.

Simply put,use HE against lightly and non armored targets. Use AP only against armored ones. And for the ridiculously armored just use bombs, or my personal favorite: Tiny tim : )

Kurfurst__
12-21-2010, 05:07 AM
In real life, its a matter of fuse type timing actually, not bomb type..

But generally AP weapons had thicker steel nose/casing on the same overall weight, and since steel has much greater density than explosives, they carried a lot less explosives inside. The plus side was that the bomb didn't just break up and becoming inert upon impact. So they were basically designed to reliably detonate, at the expense of damaging potential.

On the other end of the scale were the high capacity bombsss with very thin bomb walls - I have read somewhere that for example the RAF's 4000 lbs cookies, which took this to an extreme level, were rather prone to breaking up and not exploding. 25% of them or something like that..