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AerialTarget
05-31-2005, 05:29 PM
I have a request, one which I hope will be echoed by many, for modellers such as Gibbage and the others who make models of the quality of those we have in the game. Cockpits would not be necessary. In addition, there would be little need to have complicated flight models.

The airplanes in question are the T-6 Texan, the Boeing Stearman, and the Piper Cub. I know, these are all unarmed aircraft, but that is the beauty of it! They wouldn't need extensive programming to make it into the game. We already have the C-47 and its German counterpart, the Ju-52. We have several biplane trainers, but not the famous American one which all United States pilots learned on. And we have the German Storch, which served the same role as the Cub.

What say you? Is this feasable?

ImpStarDuece
05-31-2005, 06:37 PM
Well, I'm not a modeler and I hate to put the kybosh on good ideas like this but I think the chances of getting planes like the Cub or the AT-6 in the game are slim to non-existant.

Couple of reasons;

1) This is primarily a combat sim. To whit, all the flyable planes are armed fighters or bombers. While versions without the cockpit would be acceptable, most, if not all, new planes in the sim come with cockpits. There are very few 'update' planes that are non-flyable.

2) The existing backlog of models developed for the game. 1c has on its hands at least 15-20 different aircraft models that have been submitted but have not appeared in the game. Italian birds, Ju-88, Mosquito, Spitfire XIV, several Japanese planes, Pe-2 as well as the other planes that Maddox games are working on.

3) New models still take significant research, programming and modeling work. Things like the FM and DM still have to be modelled, the planes have to be tested and the models perfect and then they have to be coded into the game and tested. That means a lot of work when there are already plenty of other models that are waiting go in.

4) Lack of fit (mostly the Texan and Stearman here). There is really no place for these planes to go in the game. The Uhu and Storch, like the Cub, were liason and observation aircraft, they saw action in the maps we have. I often use a 'escort the recon aircraft' mission as a diversion in offline play. However, the trainers have no place to call home, with the exception of Hawaii.


I don't want to be a nay sayer (as it appears) and would love to see these planes get included. However, given what we already have, Maddox Games primacy for BoB development, the required work from 3rd parties and 1C;Maddox and a possible lack of interest from the dogfight, and internet crowd, I think the chances of getting these birds are slim.

Waldo.Pepper
05-31-2005, 07:07 PM
If all you want is unarmed aircraft because


that is the beauty of it!

This can be achieved if you carry no ammo.

If you don't mind there being no cockpit then you can fly anything already with no cockpi.

This idea while well intended (I an all for it) is a non starter at this stage of the IL2 series lifespan.

Pump your idea for BOB.

AerialTarget
05-31-2005, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
New models still take significant research, programming and modeling work.

Bosh! Oleg just has to throw a few random numbers into the code, and we're good to go. No reason to make an exception for these planes!

I'm sorry, that thought popped into my head when I read that line of yours, and I couldn't resist posting it. Your point is taken, and I must concede that you are right.


Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
If all you want is unarmed aircraft because

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">that is the beauty of it!

This can be achieved if you carry no ammo.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant, "That they are unarmed is the beauty of this suggestion, because no cockpits need be created." I like armed planes as much as anyone else. By the way, the T-6 Texan did carry two fifty caliber machine guns. That's a piddly armament in the game, but a Russian ace interviewed by someone on this forum stated several times that two American fifty caliber machine guns were "very powerful" and quite sufficient.

You're both right, however, in that it would be a bad idea to have someone make the models only to not have them incorporated into the game. It's too bad Battle of Britain will only have a small handful of airplanes, and probably none of them American.

CraigNT
05-31-2005, 11:42 PM
I had the opportunity to fly a T-6 Texan way back in the early 70's. I was as a Civil Air Patrol cadet in High School with a USAF officer who worked with our squadron. He happened to be an instructor pilot who trained in that particular aircraft since the late 1040's. I remember distinctly asking him if the T-6 ever had machine guns... and he said the only way to arm the plane would be if you happen to strap a couple machine guns on your back before jumping in the cockpit!!! Ha! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
It was a rock stable plane... very forgiving, and would break its heart before it ever stalled. It WOULD be great if it was included... but it wouldn't be historically correct unless they added a campaign map of Sheppard Army Air Corp Training Field in Texas!
cheers, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
- CraigNT

HotelBushranger
06-01-2005, 03:09 AM
I would love the Tiger Moth and Stearman the most (out of the trainers). They are beautiful planes. Regarding the Texan, the Australian licensed version, the Wirraway, was sometimes armed with two .303's in the nose. One pilot was actually accredited with shooting down a Zero with a Wirraway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Got the DFC for it

stansdds
06-01-2005, 04:07 AM
I remember distinctly asking him if the T-6 ever had machine guns... and he said the only way to arm the plane would be if you happen to strap a couple machine guns on your back before jumping in the cockpit!

Actually there were armed versions of the T-6. During WW II the Army Air Corps had the AT-6 through AT-6F models and the Navy had SNJ-3 though -6 models, all could be armed with a .30 caliber Browning machine gun on the starboard side of the upper cowling just forward of the cockpit and the rear seat could be armed with a .30 caliber on a flexible mount.

The AT-6B/SNJ-3 were unique in that an additional .30 cal could be mounted withing the starboard wing. The AT-6B/SNJ-3 also saw the fitting of a hard point under each wing for a bomb of up to 100 pounds.

The T6-G/SNJ-7's had no internal armament and they were built after the end of WW II. There were hardpoints under each wing for the placement of .30 caliber gun pods, rockets or bombs.