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FPSOLKOR
07-06-2007, 01:06 AM
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=71686&d=1175590788

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=71687&d=1175590788

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=71689&d=1175591605

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72836&d=1183655940

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=71647&d=1175517652

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=71648&d=1175517652

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=71649&d=1175517652

Kurfurst__
07-06-2007, 03:01 AM
... and the point?

FPSOLKOR
07-06-2007, 03:08 AM
What the f/// they were doing in Russia with aviation fuels which had a freezing point -5 degrees celsius? Was the last sample a basic fuel which was adjusted to reazonable level by adding something to it? How the engines could work with that large amount of parafines in the fuel?

zugfuhrer
07-06-2007, 01:33 PM
Yes you have the facts here, no flight engine worked when it was cold. Thats how VVS got their air superiority.

" ...We are back. And we kept silent about war for many years, remembering friends that gone only among ourselves. But keeping silence does not mean forgetting. And we have nothing to be ashamed of... "

Who are we, what are they back to, what about the war are they keeping silent, who tells them to be ashame, and for what shall they be ashame off?

ploughman
07-06-2007, 01:43 PM
Why not read the whole document.

"It appears very dobutful whether this fuel was ever used as aviation gasoline on the Eastern front (note freezing point as well as other properties). Althought the octane rating is satisfactory it is unusual for the Germans to use a fuel of such high aromatic content and specific gravity even for motor gasoline."

Klemm.co
07-06-2007, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
Yes you have the facts here, no flight engine worked when it was cold. Thats how VVS got their air superiority.
No. In their biography at least Hartmann and Rall describe that the limiting factor for flying at -40 degrees centigrade was the oil that was frozen hard so the engine couldn't be turned on. A captured Russian pilot showed them how to work this out though: mix some fuel in the oil and it would start normal. They just had to remove the oil sooner than normal 'cause else something adverse would happen (cant remember what now).
They never complained about not being able to use the fuel in the extreme cold.

luftluuver
07-06-2007, 01:59 PM
Yellow fuel? B4 is blue and C3 is green, so what rating was the yellow?

No one think that, just maybe, it is a typo?

Here are some other captured test samples, http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/Tom%20Reels/Linked/A5464...0654%20Item%206A.pdf (http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/Tom%20Reels/Linked/A5464/A5464-0638-0654%20Item%206A.pdf)

Kurfurst__
07-06-2007, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by FPSOLKOR:
What the f/// they were doing in Russia with aviation fuels which had a freezing point -5 degrees celsius? Was the last sample a basic fuel which was adjusted to reazonable level by adding something to it? How the engines could work with that large amount of parafines in the fuel?

I don't quite get it - all the fuels you've listed are shown with -50 to -60 freezing points, except the last sample which was found in barrel on some airfield, and that fuel is of very low octane at 76.. Chances are it's not even aviation fuel, or perhaps fuel for trainers, captured fuel rotting there for years..?

As to answer your question, I believe special additives were added to the oil, and the radiator inlets were covered with wooden planks before takeoff to allow oil to heat up.

zugfuhrer
07-06-2007, 02:32 PM
Sorry you must have missed the irony.
Kurfurst is it Frank Zappa to the left on the poster "Welcome to Uberworld" in your reply?

DKoor
07-06-2007, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
Sorry you must have missed the irony. http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Kurfurst__
07-06-2007, 03:45 PM
Nope, Ian McShane. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0348914/

This forum reminded me of the series lately, you know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Blutarski2004
07-06-2007, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
Sorry you must have missed the irony.
Kurfurst is it Frank Zappa to the left on the poster "Welcome to Uberworld" in your reply?


..... Couldn't be. FZ was a lot cooler looking than that.

FZ a.k.a. Sheik Yerbouti - always loved that one.

luftluuver
07-06-2007, 05:23 PM
http://www.poster.net/zappa-frank/zappa-frank-toilet-5000882.jpg

FPSOLKOR
07-08-2007, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
" ...We are back. And we kept silent about war for many years, remembering friends that gone only among ourselves. But keeping silence does not mean forgetting. And we have nothing to be ashamed of... "

Who are we, what are they back to, what about the war are they keeping silent, who tells them to be ashame, and for what shall they be ashame off?

About Korean war. Mentioning about presence of soviet pilots was forbidden untill 1990. That's why they kept silent... When US poured as much sh\t on them as it could.

zugfuhrer
07-08-2007, 10:46 AM
Why was the presence forbidden? There where obvious that soviet pilots participated in Spain, Korea, Egypt and Syria and many other scenes of conflict?

What s/t did the US poured on them?

After most of all wars former enemies meet and all old agression is gone. Many meeting of war veterans makes them brothers in arms. Has there been any such meatings between USAF and VVS veterans of the Korean konflict?

FPSOLKOR
07-08-2007, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
Why was the presence forbidden? There where obvious that soviet pilots participated in Spain, Korea, Egypt and Syria and many other scenes of conflict?

What s/t did the US poured on them?

After most of all wars former enemies meet and all old agression is gone. Many meeting of war veterans makes them brothers in arms. Has there been any such meatings between USAF and VVS veterans of the Korean konflict?

Not the presence, but mentioning about it. It was forbidden because it was conscidedered that addmitting of presence of soviet pilots could lead to all-out war. But this is political issue.

12 to 1 kill ratio for example...

I know of some meetings (they were arranged in the beginning and mid 90-s) between Soviet and German veterans, which all ended in a fight between them with one actual death from heart attack... Not sure about Korean war pilots. I can think of 2 or 3 occasions when singular Soviet pilots were invited to US (also in mid90-s), but not sure about it's outcome - at least I heard nothing about fighting.

Kurfurst__
07-08-2007, 04:30 PM
Fighting about what...? It's hard to imagine for me, hearing all how nicely meetings between veterans usually go, between LW and Western Allied veterans..

The US vet Goebel for example sent a personal photo of himself posing on the wing of his Mustang, asking the editor of a local magazine to cut of the lower part of the photo with his victory markings, not wanting to offend anyone... request rejected of course on the basis of 'we shot, they shot'.

It's hard to imagine fight between veterans 60 years after the war for me..

Kettenhunde
07-08-2007, 05:01 PM
which all ended in a fight between them with one actual death from heart attack...

I think that has more to do with the magnitude of atrocities committed on both sides.

The Germans certainly did not treat the Russian civilians well. The Russian returned the favor on a grand scale too. Too many on both sides had their woman and children killed, tortured, or raped.

Big difference between soldiers on the battlefield, bombing victims, and "You killed my children and raped my wife after they surrendered."

I'm not sure I would want to hang out, drink beer, and reminisce with the folks who did that to my family either. I could see some folks getting punched in the mouth in that situation.

IMHO, best to just leave it alone lest the hate gets past onto another generation.

All the best,

Crumpp