PDA

View Full Version : Can you destroy fishing boats with .50 caliber guns?



Lancelot_ecv56
12-11-2004, 09:13 AM
I made a mission that its something like a turkey shot of fishing armed boats and japanese landing crafts, and the landing craft are easily destroyed with .50 caliber guns, but the fishing boats, being bigger but of wood, i can't destroy them.
Did anyone tested attacking this small wooden ships with guns and destroy them? I want to know if its me or they can't be destroyed using machineguns only. I beleive they should, but if its not possible i will send the message of the bug on the proper channels. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks!

J_Weaver
12-11-2004, 09:16 AM
Now don't quote me on this, but I read somewhere that you can't sink the fishing boats with .50s. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Latico
12-11-2004, 09:27 AM
Let's see.

Small wooden fishing boat with sails and maybe a small diesel or gas kicker, and no explosives on board. Doubt if it will blow up. Chop it up with .50's, yes.

But, it could be a DM bug.

Bull_dog_
12-11-2004, 10:20 AM
I've not been able to sink anything with hmgs....hoping we get some barges and other small vessels in the future, but this needs to be addressed. unarmored shipping like subs and cargo ships should be able to be heavily damaged and maybe sunk w cannons and hmgs in sufficient quantity and placement. Destroyers should be damaged as well, but I don't know about sinking them...I know that some were sunk with hmgs but I'm unclear as to whether this was a freak incident or that it would be acheived w/ regularity given enough hits, placement etc.

RAF__Swede51
12-11-2004, 12:38 PM
This has been a puzzlement to me for some time with the Il-2 series. All one has to do is watch all the WWII gun camera films of ship attacks with .50's and it is clear that the rounds penetrated enough to rupture the boilers and Whaammo... ship gone.. Especially freighter type ships.
I was in the U.S. military and have fired .50 cal weapons and I know what they are capable of..
Realism is clearly a major goal with the Il-2 team and it is what makes the game what it is, but the damage parameters with the .50's and ships IMO has not yet come into this realm.
Does anyone know what the status of this is with the programers?

ianboys
12-11-2004, 12:42 PM
Yes you CAN sink them but not by hitting the sides (bullets penetrate and do little damage). Come in nose-down and hit the top so you make holes on the wet bits underneath and they will sink, trust me. Try the A20.

RAF__Swede51
12-11-2004, 12:57 PM
Ok, I'll give that a try.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Korbelz
12-11-2004, 12:58 PM
you can damage all ships now with your guns...mainly just the AAA guns. you will get the black smoke coming up when you take one out.

so if you are crazy enough you "could" take out almost all the of AAA guns on a carrier

WUAF_Badsight
12-11-2004, 01:31 PM
omg ianboys , i sooo gotta test this now !

TPN_Cephas
12-11-2004, 01:43 PM
So if this works for fishing boats does it also work for the freighter and tanker? Can a destroyer take any damage this way? Please Ian tell us what ships can be damaged by .50's and 20mm's too for that matter if they can do more.

Thanks!

TPN_Cephas
12-11-2004, 02:17 PM
I just did some testing on this using vertical attacks on the deck. Using a P47 (which has 8 .50 cals) and extra ammunition, the best I was able to do was damage the fishing boat (a sail got torn up). So yes, theoretically, .50's can sink a ship, but it is hardly realistic to what .50's are capable of.. Now I know that probably only 30 percent of my rounds hit the boat at best, but a flimsy wooden boat ought to come apart when hit by .50's, The hydrostatic shock of the bullets piercing the hull and then creating a shock wave in the water under the hull is enough to splinter the hull. Many of us have seen the footage of .50 cal equipped fighters doing tremendous damage to even large ships in a single pass.

I love this sim, and ground attack is my favorite part, but some aspects of damage modeling are really hard to understand. Like railway tanker cars when placed as a stationary object that are also virtually impossible to destroy with .50's.

Now I say this with respect to the designers of this game, but there seems to be some bias towards the cannon armed aircraft. In air to air combat I have no gripes with .50 cal performance anymore, but 50's really seems impotent still vs ground targets. Being a former US Marine I have seen firsthand what a single 50 cal can do at a thousand yards and it is amazing. Put eight of the together and attack anything without serious armor plating and in the real world it does not have a chance.

Please find a way to increase the power of .50's vs ground targets without skewing the air to air balance.

RAF__Swede51
12-11-2004, 02:56 PM
Exactly!
I did some testing just now also in a P47 and I don't understand it. .50's should just rip things apart just like in real life... Something has to either change or have an explanation given as to why it is the way it is..

CKY_86
12-11-2004, 03:26 PM
try the 20mm cannon i was able to sink one of those fishing boats but i had to repeat my attack a few times

LeadSpitter_
12-11-2004, 04:01 PM
break sails and run out of ammo

Tater-SW-
12-11-2004, 04:09 PM
I was't able to sink a sea truck (aka trawler) with .50 cal. They would actually be carrying cargo and food to the front, they were the most typical form of small cargo type found (the one in game is ~150 gross tons).

I set up M16s on the coast and they fire forever and do naught but damage them. In general, I have no problem with ships not sinking outright from damage since the sinking is far too fast anyway. I actually don't like seeing ships sink it game, it looks too fake because it happens so fast. I prefer to see them smoking. That said, I think the sea truck doesn't smoke as easily as it should from HMG fire as it should. I've never gotten the other merchants to react at all to strafing.

tater

BuzzU
12-11-2004, 04:26 PM
You got something against fish?

Korbelz
12-11-2004, 04:33 PM
to the guy comparing a modern HMMWV mounted .50 to a WW2 aircraft mounted....do you really think you could fit 8 of those in to the wing of a p47??? if you do your nuts.
I'm willing to bet that they had to cut back the length of the barrel and some muzzle vel., but i don't know that for sure.

Athosd
12-11-2004, 05:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ianboys:
Yes you CAN sink them but not by hitting the sides (bullets penetrate and do little damage). Come in nose-down and hit the top so you make holes on the wet bits underneath and they will sink, trust me. Try the A20. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you say so Ian, however it has yet to work for me (rather difficult and dangerous to use an A20 in a steeply plunging MG attack).
Any chance you could post a track showing an A20 successfully destroying a Fishing Trawler with its .50s?

Cheers

Athos

icrash
12-11-2004, 06:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
You got something against fish? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not if there is fries & hushpuppies involved http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Athosd
12-11-2004, 06:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korbelz:
to the guy comparing a modern HMMWV mounted .50 to a WW2 aircraft mounted....do you really think you could fit 8 of those in to the wing of a p47??? if you do your nuts.
I'm willing to bet that they had to cut back the length of the barrel and some muzzle vel., but i don't know that for sure. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't believe they gave up much for the aircraft installation. WW2 era US .50s were a bit less powerful than the current type (improved rifling and ammunition), however the AP rounds were able to penetrate about an inch of armour plate at ranges under 500m (assuming 90 degree impact).

Per the fishing trawlers in PF - I'd like to see a lot less fumes from the destroyed AAA mounts (on the armed trawlers). There doesn't seem to be much justification for should huge clouds of black smoke - when all thats happened is a dismounted gun and some dead crew.
Also as Tater suggests a ship fatally damaged by .50 hits would likely take some time to sink - barring secondary explosions (boilers, cargo etc). To that end it would be nice to see partial sunken vessels that do not completely sink in the time frame of the mission.

Probably a pipe dream - but I'd love to see explosions modelled on strafed ships (trawlers and freighters mainly) - even if the damage inflicted was not fatal. It would be a nice effect mixed in with the flashes of MG rounds striking.

Cheers

Athos

TPN_Cephas
12-11-2004, 10:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> to the guy comparing a modern HMMWV mounted .50 to a WW2 aircraft mounted....do you really think you could fit 8 of those in to the wing of a p47??? if you do your nuts.
I'm willing to bet that they had to cut back the length of the barrel and some muzzle vel., but i don't know that for sure. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The "Ma Deuce" M2 Browning machine gun has hardly changed at all over the years. The ammo has also pretty much remained the same. It is the exact same working action as used on WW2 aircraft except modified to be structurally mounted with remote triggering. And yes I do really think 8 of them would do 8x more damage. (less bullets that miss the target) Have you ever seen a P47? it is a huge aircraft, it can easily fit these actions in the wing. Now the barrels may be a bit shorter but even a 5% velocity loss is not going to make a huge difference, especially when you ADD the forward velocity of the aircraft shooting a stationary target.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>ry the 20mm cannon i was able to sink one of those fishing boats but i had to repeat my attack a few times <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes the 20mm is more effective and I have sunk damaged ships with it, but we are talking about .50's here. I would also personally like to see the 20mm bumped up a bit versus ground targets and especially ships.

As for damage modeling I tend to agree with the others. Copious amounts of smoke, with a kill message, and a very slow sinking would be nicer, an occasional complete explosion or breaking in half with a fast sinking would be awesome.

Lewicide
12-12-2004, 12:39 AM
G'day

I set up a fishing boat and went after it with the A-20 and unlimited ammo, destroyed the sails and life boat but couldn't even raise smoke in many, many passes in steep dives aiming for the "fish". Tried the Beaufighter using 20mm cannon, sunk in one pass, Corsair with 20mm sunk in multiple passes (both of the last two using limited ammo). The multiple .50 cals shold be able to sink these tinber hulls provided they're used at reasonable ranges. I always thought the Russian torpedo boat a bit too hard to sink as well.

mazexx
12-12-2004, 03:28 AM
Well, I suppose that I am one of the few that can provide some RL data on this matter. Unfortunately not on the .50 but never the less real combat results and quite an interesting wartime story that was critical for me beeing born http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In october of 1944 my grandparents (and my mother who was only 2 years old) fled in a fishing trawler from Estonia to Sweden when the soviets invaded. The russians where rumored to use regular fishing boats to flank german troops along the coast and when my relatives left the coast an me-109 appeared. My grandfather could unfortunately not identify the subtype as it gets harder when you face "the wrong end" of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif A fair guess would be one of the G models with 2x13 mgs and a 20mm... Beeing an engineer and technically interested he could at least say it was an me-109...

The 109 did two strafing runs from 10-20 meters above the waves on the trawler and killed a number of crewmen but did no critical damage to the ship. All my relatives survived - the women took shelter in the bottom of the ship. The men stood on the deck waving an estonian flag and apperantly the pilot noticed it on the lest attack and made a last pass - this time "waving with the wings" as some kind of "i'm sorry"...

An interesting epiloge happended too, though a bit off topic:

After a while a german destroyer appeared (size unknown but grandpa said it was BIG). They pulled up alongside the trawler and dropped down a ladder. My grandfather beeing an academic and fluent in german was selected to be "spokesman" and went up with the passports of the passengers (which the germans wanted to see). The germans where satisfied but beeing under pressure my grandfather somehow managed to forget the passports aboard the destroyer when he whent back down (they heard big guns fired everywhere around in the distance). The german destroyer left at full speed to join the fighting and when it was almost on the horizon it turned back and the ladder was dropped down and a german sailor hurried down, with a quick salute he handed over the passports with the comment "You'll need these in Sweden"! Obviously not all germans where evil nazis...

Regarding the trawler attack I don't know if the cannon was used. It may have been empty and the pilot wanted to get rid of the 13mm ammo before returning to base? I any case the trawler did not suffer any critical damage due to the two strafing runs though a lot of innocent civilians where killed!

Regards /Mazex

Athosd
12-12-2004, 04:02 AM
Thanks for that Mazex - always fascinating to get some personal perspective on historical events.

Salute

Athos

Prof.Wizard
12-12-2004, 05:55 AM
Thank you mazexx for sharing that with us. Thank your grandpa as well!

Lancelot_ecv56
12-12-2004, 08:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ianboys:
Yes you CAN sink them but not by hitting the sides (bullets penetrate and do little damage). Come in nose-down and hit the top so you make holes on the wet bits underneath and they will sink, trust me. Try the A20. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for answering Ian, but i tryed A LOT without succes. The mission is set in 1942 and you must use a F4F wildcat. I attacked the freaking LITTLE WOODEN ship with the two bombs and damaged with them (skippy bombing stile), then used all my .50 guns on the ship and still it didn't sink. Alwasy attackinh from behind and at very sharp descent angle.
Two times i sink it in kamikaze stile once i runned out of ammo.

Tater-SW-
12-12-2004, 09:41 AM
Sea Truck set ablaze by 0.50 call fire.

http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/burning_sea_truck.jpg
I don't have a problem with the smoke on the armed version. In fact, I'd always use the armed version in a mission, and sleep the guns if I wanted it unarmed, just to get the smoke.


tater

TPN_Cephas
12-12-2004, 10:22 AM
Awesome idea Tater, that's another trick to add to my FMB workarounds due to it's somewhat limited functionality. You can also put a fuel truck inside the fishing boat if it is stationary to show some flames. You do get funny kill messages though, but your score is also slightly higher too, which I like. The scoring seems to be de-emphasized for ground attack.

I am working on a P-51 Euro theater mission now that simulates P-51's being released from bomber escort after returning to friendly lines late in the war and they were free to engage ground targets before they had to head home. This is similar to the WW2 footage seen where P-51's are strafing trains, convoys, and barns/wherehouses with explosive results sice the Germans would quite often store munitions in barns.

I put railway tank cars inside a building object resembling a barn to make for a fiery explosion. (Not as big as I would like, but good enough). Since the .50's won't readily explode a tanker car object I put some stationary german fuel cars also in the barn object with their sides just barely sticking out just beyond flush with the building. They are pretty hard to notice even when zoomed in strafing and when the bullets hit them they explode readily, which in turn ignites the rail car inside in a chain reaction.

Another trick you can do is make fixed gear planes (D3 and JU-87) start from anywhere on the airport at the start of a mission. Or using the temp runways, you can make an airport with any type plane taking off from what appears to not be a runway, although this trick is not as slick as using the fixed gear starting trick. You used to be able to make any plane start anywhere on the airfield, but with PF they changed the way planes start, and if a retractable gear plane is misplaced on start it's gear will be retracted and it settles to the ground inoperative (or blows up). Anyone FMB user that is interested on details PM me.

Here is a mission showing the Japanese planes taking off using these tricks. The D3's start from the tarmac and the Ki-84's from a hangar. (Yes I know they would not start in a hangar but I just wanted to do it) Unfortunately the AI will try to takeoff straight ahead no matter what in both cases so it is not very realistic, but if you are playing with live CO-OP players it is fun to taxi to the takeoff runway. (At least with the new PF takeoff code they will take off straight ahead, they always used to turn due east and try to takeoff no matter what on an irregular ground start trick)

The mission is in my coop mission pack below and is called "Invasion Japan 4 "Landing Craft"" and is located in the 0 Cephas PF folder after unzipping.

Snow_Wolf_
12-12-2004, 11:10 AM
I got the same result as most of u using the B-25J took out the sails and life boat with the 50cal but ship just wouldn't sink try from diving in at the bow and the Stern then try diving in from the left side and right side. weird cause i took a 110G2 after with Mk108 and the bk 3.7cm killed it on the first pass diving in on that wooden ship

Fenris459
12-12-2004, 11:46 AM
The .50 cal Browning Heavy Machine gun as used on Aircraft in the Second World War (Both fixed installation and flex mount)

Length = 57 inches
Weight gun = 64 pounds
Weight of Barrel = 10 pounds
Length of barrel = 36 inches
Overall length of gun = 56.125 inches
Muzzle velocity = 2,750 Feet/second
Maximum range = 7,200 yards
Effective range = 1,200 yards
Rate of fire = 800 rounds/minute
AP round (armour piercing)capable of defeating 1 inch armour plate at 1000 yards range

The weapon has gained a formidable reputation for both reliabilty and striking power since its service introduction in 1921 and is still in world wide use to this day (thats 83 years years of combat service friends). I'll quote a passage from the fine work The Grim Reaper, Machine Guns and Machine Gunners in action by Roger Ford (ISBN 1-885119-41-0)

" Over the years the gun has gained numerous testimonies as to its striking power. one from the Vietnam era can perhaps serve to sum them all up: "A .50 calibre machine-gun is nothing to be *ucked with. Movies have done a disservice to that weapon. What they fail to convey is that the .50 calibre machine-gun is big and bad enough that if you look around a city block, you will see almost no structure standing that you can hide behind safely hide behind if somebody is firing one of those things at you. It just goes through everything.

Based on this information and the many accounts of small craft being destroyed by .50 cal fire in many wars I would agree that the damage modeling against ground targets seems to be inaccurate.

billclarke1
12-12-2004, 03:40 PM
I have an account of the Japanese invasion of Wake Island, and apparantly the Marine F4f's strafed an old destroyer and set off the depth charges on the stern, sank her out right.

Tater-SW-
12-12-2004, 04:24 PM
TPN_Cephas, you can also "park" the fixed gear planes as targets. Set 2 waypoints, TO and landing, then switch them to 4m alt for TO, and 3m alt for landing, keep the speed zero. Have the 2d waypoint maybe a plane length or 2 ahead of the 1st. No ordnance.

The plane will spawn in, and prang the prop, whcih means it won;t TO. It'll sit there for ages. Makes a nice way to populate dispersal areas with the occastional "real" target to get smoke, etc.

tater

TPN_Cephas
12-12-2004, 06:09 PM
Yeah thanks Tater, I just give a real plane zero fuel and then it goes nowhere and takes no damage. Be sure to give them no ordnance though because AI auto drops ordnance when fuel hits zero. This also works for making planes static on a carrier deck that is the target of an attack. Just make the first two planes zero fuel and ordnance and the rest will never takeoff (the rest can also have full fuel and ordnance)

Atomic_Marten
12-12-2004, 06:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
omg ianboys , i sooo gotta test this now ! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ARRGH... must go check something.. cya.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/images/smiles/think.gif http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/images/smiles/flybye.gif

tagTaken2
12-12-2004, 07:07 PM
Sigh... anybody who's sunk a CFS3 cruiser with multiple strafing passes will know the joys of lazy damage modelling.

Was intending to raise this topic myself today, so pleased to see some hints.

Tater-SW-
12-12-2004, 08:59 PM
Zero fuel works for Seaplanes, and it works on the CV, but not at airfields. If you give them zero fuel they disappearafter a little while.

tater

StellarRat
12-13-2004, 12:44 AM
I read account somewhere of a Beaufighter sinking a German destroyer in the Med with only guns. I suppose I could find it if I look hard enough. Anyway, I do believe that you should be able to damage or possibly sink destroyers with guns, even as small as .50, as they are not generally armored. Anything smaller should certainly be sinkable with guns.

_Neveraine_
12-13-2004, 03:37 AM
Has anyone tried similar tests with Japanese equivalents?

HangerQueen
12-13-2004, 05:22 AM
Try skipping the bullets up from the surface of the sea.

Aaron_GT
12-13-2004, 05:38 AM
TPN_Cephas, what are the exploding barns supposed to represent? Most barns are not packed with fuel!

With regard to the ground effectiveness of .50s it's probably worth looking at the USN reports which set up a dummy truck convoy. This was strafed by a 50 cal armed plane. Result: one truck smoking very slightly despite multiple hits on the dummy convoy. In IL2 we get a much more explosive effect than this on trucks. The 20mm run by the USN on the dummy truck convoy was considerably more effective.

So it may be that 50 cal attacks on boats aren't that effective unless they hit something critical? It seems that against trucks the USN didn't rate them that highly (at least not compared to 20mm cannon) and the effectiveness against trucks of weaponry may be overmodelled in IL2. I don't know why this would be the case, but it is going on the evidence of the USN tests. Maybe gunnery is just very much harder in real life and we tend to hit more often than people did in WW2.

Lancelot_ecv56
12-13-2004, 03:50 PM
This got way way away of the original topic, whis is about the fishing boats. I don't beleive we should be able to sink destroyers with .50 guns, i will be the first to whine if something like that ever happens on PF.
I also don't think that the .50 ghuns are weak on FB/PF, i can destroy planes and soft ground targets like trucks, planes and flak easily with them. But i DO THINK that those ****ed fishing boats are unrealistic tough against .50 caliber guns.
The laindg craft, being smaller but of metal only need a little burst and they are down, the fishing boats i expend all your ammunition and they onle lose their sails, but still floatin and "fishing" happily http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

gates123
12-13-2004, 06:07 PM
I tried to sink a russian AAA barge in a bf-110 using the bk-1 and 108's. no damage after about 5 passes...what gives.

Tater-SW-
12-13-2004, 07:45 PM
You might not be able to sink a DD with MG fire, but someday we'll see a sim with a DM for ships that is closer in scale to the DM for planes. In that case, you could see secondary explosions from hitting TTs or depth charges, etc, and maybe fires. Get an incoming Tokyo Express DD, and you'd have troops crowded topside, and piles of ammo on deck...

tater

TPN_Cephas
12-13-2004, 08:00 PM
TO Aaron _GT

There is lots of WW2 footage of US planes strafing farms near the front line. At first when you see them doing it your think, "That's not right!" Then you see them go up in a tremendous fireball. The Germans stockpiled ordnance wherever they could, and quite often they used barns or any large building. US pilots where given the green light to attack them at will.

I was making a mission that tried to recreate one of these patrols.

Athosd
12-13-2004, 08:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gates123:
I tried to sink a russian AAA barge in a bf-110 using the bk-1 and 108's. no damage after about 5 passes...what gives. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Bk-1 (? - the 37mm option on Bf110) and Mk108 fire only HE ammunition (intended for destroying bombers) - not very effective against any form of armour.
Try strafing the same target with 20mm cannon (not sure if this will do the trick) or Mk103 (heavy high velocity 30mm gun with AP and HE ammo).
If it still instists on floating then come back with the late model IL2M3 or the Ju87G1 - either of those should definitely end the argument http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Aaron_GT
12-14-2004, 01:07 AM
"There is lots of WW2 footage of US planes strafing farms near the front line. At first when you see them doing it your think, "That's not right!" Then you see them go up in a tremendous fireball. The Germans stockpiled ordnance wherever they could"

Ah - that makes perfect sense. I thought at first you were doing the normal thing of putting vehicles in buildings so that points can be scored for destroying them but overegging it for Holywood style bangs! But now you've explained it it makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

jamesdietz
12-14-2004, 04:33 PM
Ok Can I sink 'em( ships of any kind...) with anti-tank cannon eqipped Stukas????

Lewicide
12-14-2004, 04:55 PM
Yeah I vaguely remember sinking the Russian topedo boat with the JU-87 37mm's but it took a lot of hits which were difficult to get with the rocking caused by the unsynchronised cannon, but i'll have to check this again. I have definately sunk the torp boat with 8-13 hits from the Yak 45mm. Have,nt tried the JU-87 on the mighty fishing boat/sea-truck/sea-bunker but i'm experimenting with the p-39 at the moment with it's low-vel 37mm T9 so far without any sinking. So far the only relaible A/C I've found for sinking this vessel'o'fish has been the Beaufughter.

Zarathael
12-14-2004, 08:55 PM
I just think that the power of the .50 has been undermodelled since the inception of the sim, in the air and on the ground. What I see is indicative of rifle-caliber rounds, which the .50 was not. In ground attacks, thunderbolt pilots would attack railroads, because the .50s were powerful enough to KNOCK THE RAILS APART!

It would take a great deal to change my mind on this point, but it is a minor deficit that I can live with.

Athosd
12-14-2004, 10:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jamesdietz:
Ok Can I sink 'em( ships of any kind...) with anti-tank cannon eqipped Stukas???? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can indeed - the Ju87G1 is quite capable of sinking anything up to Freighter size.

Here is an old topic I posted with notes concerning gunfire effect on shipping. These notes were made right after getting PF so some points are a little out of date (smoke from the Subs was actually due to destroyed gun positions etc).

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=9371065932

Cheers

Athos

Indianer.
12-15-2004, 02:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lancelot_ecv56:
I made a mission that its something like a turkey shot of fishing armed boats and japanese landing crafts, and the landing craft are easily destroyed with .50 caliber guns, but the fishing boats, being bigger but of wood, i can't destroy them.
Did anyone tested attacking this small wooden ships with guns and destroy them? I want to know if its me or they can't be destroyed using machineguns only. I beleive they should, but if its not possible i will send the message of the bug on the proper channels. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hey....if tom hanks et al can blow up a tiger with 50s then u sir, certainly can.

Tater-SW-
12-15-2004, 07:53 AM
The tanks in SPR were hit with bombs. The fact the tank was killed was OK, the fact any of the allied troops within a few meters of the target did... now THAT is silly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Barge hunting" was common practice for planes armed with caliber 0.50 guns. Kill the crew, kill the troops aboard, set them afire, or hit explosive/flamable cargo (they were carrying military supplies, you know). Wooden Sea Trucks were quite susceptible to damage, fire (and eventual sinking) from MG fire alone.

tater

ploughman
12-15-2004, 08:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
There is lots of WW2 footage of US planes strafing farms near the front line. At first when you see them doing it your think, "That's not right!" Then you see them go up in a tremendous fireball. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Subsequent investigations by USAAF tactical airpower surveyors concluded that most, if not all instances of farm buildings exploding following attack by .50 cal armed aircraft were the result of bullets piercing and igniting highly inflamable, methane rich dairy cattle!

An udder link <A HREF="http://www.darwinawards.com/legends/legends2000-06.html" TARGET=_blank>
An udder link.</A>

Flydutch
12-15-2004, 08:47 AM
Sombody suggested that Submarines should blow up under gun or Cannon fire,
I can asure you that you would be suprised what the Heavy Bronze or steel Diving tube could deflect since it was constructed not to implode under the huge pressure of depth charges and surounding waterpresure at great depth.
Convoy Escort Destroyers of lightconstruction were instructed to ram surfaced U-Boats but found out the hard way that the subs were much stronger then their "thincan" boats, only armoured cruisers and above would not be damaged severly from such a collision.

Philipscdrw
12-15-2004, 09:26 AM
I'd love it when sims get detailed enough that knocking out railway tracks will have an effect on the supplies of the front line...