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gamer025
02-04-2010, 11:38 PM
Curious... when a ship is sunk by a sub crew and the tonnage recorded, do they mark down the gross tonnage, or the estimated total (including the cargo?)

Does anybody know for certain? From what I've seen only the GWT is recorded.

wsimmons1980
02-05-2010, 10:41 AM
I believe its just GWT in the stock game. If you mod it however the tonnage will vary depending on the "varied" cargo

Kaleun1961
02-05-2010, 12:01 PM
The tonnage of the vessel itself is used. The cargo has nothing to do with it at all. If you use SH3 Commander, it randomizes the tonnage of the ship as well as assign it a name in your patrol log. This log has to be viewed outside the game; you should use SH3 Cmdr to launch each patrol and exit the game after each patrol.

gamer025
02-05-2010, 09:57 PM
I'm not talking about the game, gentlemen. I want to know what they recorded IRL.

gamer025
02-05-2010, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
The tonnage of the vessel itself is used. The cargo has nothing to do with it at all. If you use SH3 Commander, it randomizes the tonnage of the ship as well as assign it a name in your patrol log. This log has to be viewed outside the game; you should use SH3 Cmdr to launch each patrol and exit the game after each patrol.

I was using SH3 Commander until I started having issues with it. It was that same function that got me wondering. The numbers it uses for randomized are far from the real GWT of the ships listed. I took a look at the U.S. Maritime Commission ships webpage and the values from the stock game are closer to the rated GWT of the ships the US built. For instance the US Maritime Commission lists that a C3 cargo ship is rated at a GWT of 7800. SH3 Commander rates it at 5310. Further, the total maximum is 10% higher (default.) That means the highest a C3 will reach is 5841 tons. If the empty gross weight tonnage is used when a submarine crew recorded tonnage sunk, then the C3 should be listed at no less than 7800 tons each time a C3 is sunk as they would not weigh less - this is the listed empty weight of a C3 type cargo ship.

When I removed SH3 Commander the "new" GWT of the C3 and all other ships remains. The C3 is still listed as 5130 tons. I would hope that the records of the US Maritime Commission are accurate and prefer to use the values found on their website.

I'm going to do a re-install since the game has messed up, hopefully restoring all original values (and losing my custom fixes.)

BTW Kaleun, how do you like the new flag?

Kaleun1961
02-06-2010, 10:22 AM
I am no authority on the weight of various ship classes. All I do know is that tonnage scores in real life are based on the figures for the ship itself. A captain claiming a kill has no idea how much cargo a ship is carrying. All they know is that a certain ship sunk reduces the available shipping capacity by the amount of that particular ship.

Love the flag but haven't been able to fly it yet. My gaming system is temporarily out of action. I hope to get it up again this week. I have to dig it out from under storage from a recent renovation, then upgrade some parts and do a total format and reinstallation of everything. Not a little job.

gamer025
02-06-2010, 04:02 PM
I think you're bang on there Herr Kaleun1961. In that case I feel the correct values should be used where possible for the empty ships.

I hear you. I messed up my SH3 game and did a complete reinstall the other night. I've also done a little bit of modding by adding a few ships to the RCN and Can Merchant Navy. I've corrected a few spelling errors and mistakes. There's to go through the whole list but if you'd like to know what I've done and try it for yourself just ask me!

PhantomKira
02-09-2010, 11:14 AM
I noticed the tonnage issue when looking up the SS Meridith Victory. SH3 called it 7,713 tons when in fact she was 10,658. I felt slightly cheated (okay, more than slightly).

I figure that SH Commander uses a ballpark tonnage figure based on ship type and a random name. Hence the discrepancy.

Kaleun1961
02-09-2010, 12:05 PM
Your are correct; SH3 Commander uses a database of historic ship names and assigns them randomly to your victims. I also recall reading in the notes from some mod or other that the mod designers had overall dropped down the average tonnage values. The reason for this was that players were routinely bagging tonnage scores way over what was sunk historically. It was one way of trying to "dumb down" our successes in order to bring our scores in line with history. Of course, in order to do that a number of things would have to be changed right in the core of the game. In my own opinion, I think we have way too much "intelligence" in the form of individual ship contacts and convoy sightings that are too frequent or accurate. My personal gaming style is to ignore these individual sighting reports. Even so, I still manage to run into enough loners to add to my score. I avoid ports simply because the game makes it too easy. I'm strictly a convoy hunter and in spite of my own self imposed "reality rules" I still do alright tonnage wise.

gamer025
02-13-2010, 10:59 PM
I see what you mean Kaleun1961. That would make sense. I still prefer to have the actual values though, as I usually don't score very high. I don't chase down most radio contacts and only intercept those I feel will be easy to catch.

This may interest you though: even though the (stock) game does not record the names of ships you sink, many of the ships actually are named with their real-life names; warships and merchants alike.