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View Full Version : What a mess of a plane! What is this thing?



major_setback
08-25-2005, 04:01 AM
It's a Ju287.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/books/germany_secret_weapons_wwii/ju_287_01.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/books/germany_secret_weapons_wwii/ju_287_02.jpg

-HH-Dubbo
08-25-2005, 04:09 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by major_setback:
It's a Ju287.

Yes indeed. Nice picture of it though.

Zyzbot
08-25-2005, 06:02 AM
" One of the strangest Luftwaffe aircraft to ever claw it's way into the air was the Junkers Ju 287. Begun in early 1943, the Ju 287 incorporated many advanced aerodynamic concepts, the most striking being the swept forward wings. This design feature was deemed radical enough to warrent the construction of a testbed aircraft, pictured above. This testbed flew on August 16, 1944. The aircraft was a Frankenstien's monster, pieced together from several diffent aircraft. Included were the nosewheels from two B-24 Liberators, the fuselage of an He 177, mainwheels off a Ju 352, and the tail was constructed of Ju 388 parts.
17 test flights proved the concept to have excellent handling characteristics and would have proven a problem had not the allies overrun the testing airfield, capturing the the V1 and the nearly complete V2. The V2 was flown by the Soviet Union in 1947. The V3 failed to get off the drawing board and would have had several improvements."

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ju287.html

Heliopause
08-25-2005, 06:27 AM
See: Today in WWII history, approx. august 16th for more pics and info...

Kuna15
08-25-2005, 06:36 AM
"Once (i think it was 31st aug. 1940), i was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover.
I was back over the channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way.
I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way to England and waved goodbye.
A few weeks later the same thing happened to me.
That would never have happened in Russia - never. (Erich Rudorffer - 109 pilot)

Helipause Rudorffer is wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
One Croatian pilot whilst flying his Bf-109 spotted LaGG-3. He overtake him quickly as Russian did not react. He was to open fire but he saw the young fellow's face. He was obviously freezed by fear and flying straight and level. Bf-109 pilot did not shoot he broke off...

About reverse situation on east front I did not read such account yet.

Kuna15
08-25-2005, 06:46 AM
Sorry for being OT but interesting story:

...Albin Starc who flew with Safet "Slavko" Boskic during the summer of 1942, recalls:
'Our patrol had been quite uneventful, and as we prepared to head back to our airfield when "Slavko" saw a lone LaGG-3 flying straight and level at low altitude. He quickly positioned himself for an attack, but for some reason he didn't shoot. Instead he flew alongside the Russian. He looked at the pilot and saw a blond chap in his late teens without a flying helmet just staring at him paralysed. He waved and broke off. After we landed, I asked him why he had let him go, and he replied, "I couldn't kill a kid".'

LEBillfish
08-25-2005, 07:44 AM
Wow, I can't believe you found a picture of one with the infamous "Kentrapfluggen-Punchkenn" armament....

Basically those two pieces of nose gear would in an instant extend down toward the target with a long criss crossing frame work or extending lattice as they realized from American cartoons the boxing glove weapons that would shoot out like that were devastating...So worked much the same.

Ok, well that's all a lie and not a very good one....but it might work?...What do ya think raiiid?

SeaFireLIV
08-25-2005, 08:28 AM
That CANNOT be real!!

jimDG
08-25-2005, 09:27 AM
"Once (i think it was 31st aug. 1940), i was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover.
I was back over the channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way.
I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way to England and waved goodbye.
A few weeks later the same thing happened to me.
That would never have happened in Russia - never. (Erich Rudorffer - 109 pilot)

easy to explain - no (or few) english/american/french civilian people got raped and/or hanged and/or machineguned or all at the same time..
russians on the other hand got the libenstraum ("kill them all to free the land") treatment. Despite the german generals stark protests to this policy (they all got fired - guderian, etc..)

so..not much courtousy can be expected in "total war"

Gruffysquirt
08-25-2005, 10:49 AM
Slavs were just above Jews in NSDAP reckoning. Einsatzgruppen roamed the rear of the advancing wehrmacht destroying many hundreds of thousands of lives.

I believe the policy was titled "lebensraum", but the point is still made all the same.

LEBillfish
08-25-2005, 11:04 AM
and hEeeEEeerrRRrrRRrrRRRrre we go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Heliopause
08-25-2005, 11:07 AM
Helipause Rudorffer is wrong.
One Croatian pilot whilst flying his Bf-109 spotted LaGG-3. He overtake him quickly as Russian did not react. He was to open fire but he saw the young fellow's face. He was obviously freezed by fear and flying straight and level. Bf-109 pilot did not shoot he broke off...

About reverse situation on east front I did not read such account yet.



I know, I also read Osprey: Aircraft of the Aces... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Germans looked different at these things I guess....

Kuna15
08-25-2005, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Heliopause:
I know, I also read Osprey: Aircraft of the Aces... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I like it. It isn't too detailed just mentioning main things and that is good that is exactly why I like that series. That way if I find some subject particularly interesting I look for other more detailed sources.

For instance I find Hungarian Aces of WW2 a very good book in that series. Also very interesting is LeLV24 in Aviation Elite Units series.(they had very impressive score in ww2)

I am planning to get Yak aces (quite new book). Do you have any reccomendations?

There is also new book announcement, IMO very interesting:
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlecovers/S8790AL.JPG

Luftwaffe_109
08-26-2005, 12:25 AM
The following is an image of the Ju-287 production model with 4 He S 011 (not completed):
http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ju287prod.jpg

The following is an image of the EF-125, the projected development of the Ju-287 production model with 2 Jumo 012 or 2 BMW 018 (not completed):
http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ef125_01.jpg

The following photograph is a Russian built EF-131 with 2 RR Nene (flown in 1948):
http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ef140_02.jpg

The drawing below represents the EF-131, a slightly modified Ju-287 V3:
http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ef131_03.jpg

Luftwaffe_109
08-26-2005, 12:44 AM
Here are some other images of the Junkers Ju287 V1 that I found:

http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ju287v1_03.jpg

http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ju287v1_04.jpg

http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ju287v1_07.jpg

http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ju287v1_22.jpg

Luftwaffe_109
08-26-2005, 12:49 AM
More pictures of the Junkers Ju-287 V1:

http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ju287v1_09.jpg

http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ju287v1_05.jpg

http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ju287v1_10.jpg

http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ju287v1_17.jpg

http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/images/ju287v1_14.jpg

whiteladder
08-26-2005, 04:17 AM
What is the advantage in sweeping the wings forward?

NonWonderDog
08-26-2005, 05:08 AM
It's supposed to be more stable in transonic flight. At least, that's why they do it nowadays.

I have no idea why this plane would have had forward-swept wings. Maybe so they could mount them further back, putting the engines nearer the center of gravity?

Zyzbot
08-26-2005, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by NonWonderDog:
It's supposed to be more stable in transonic flight. At least, that's why they do it nowadays.

I have no idea why this plane would have had forward-swept wings. Maybe so they could mount them further back, putting the engines nearer the center of gravity?

"The swept-forward wing was suggested by the project's head designer, Dr Hans Wocke as a way of providing extra lift at low airspeeds - necessary because of the poor responsiveness of early turbojets at the vulnerable times of take-off and landing."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_287

Philipscdrw
08-26-2005, 08:35 AM
Wow - great thread! Thanks for finding and sharing all these photographs!

Those nose gear have me ROFL...

Heliopause
08-26-2005, 10:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Heliopause:
I know, I also read Osprey: Aircraft of the Aces...


I like it. It isn't too detailed just mentioning main things and that is good that is exactly why I like that series. That way if I find some subject particularly interesting I look for other more detailed sources.

I dont have all of them but some are very interesting because they have info about lesser known airforces and actions off WWII.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/heliopause/GlosterGlad.jpg

About Ju 287: Another pic...

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/heliopause/Ju287V1a.jpg

skabbe
08-26-2005, 12:33 PM
the advantage of having swept-forward wings is higher lift at lower speed and better agility when looping. you get the advantage of having strait wings and swept backward in the same time, so litle air escape trough the wingtips as in the same time the sweepthing still works for low resistace in high speed. the dissadvantage is that the wings get instable and brakes because they flutter in higher speed. try to put your hand out of the window in your car and test it. the SU-37 got titanium wings just to hold.

Badsight.
08-26-2005, 02:40 PM
but the SU-37 has swept back wings like the Mig29 or eurofighter

only one SU-37 prototype ever made

white 711

http://xs43.xs.to/pics/05345/su37.jpg

NonWonderDog
08-26-2005, 10:15 PM
Skabbe probably means the S-37 Berkut, now the SU-47, the goofy one with the forward-swept wings. I think there were plasma-stealth rumors about it.

Luftwaffe_109
08-26-2005, 11:11 PM
I like it. It isn't too detailed just mentioning main things and that is good that is exactly why I like that series. That way if I find some subject particularly interesting I look for other more detailed sources.

Yep, I love Osprey books as well. I mainly have the Elite, Men-At-Arms, Campaign and Warrior ones though, but all Osprey books I find quite good.

Here is one that I am really looking forward to:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlecovers/S9088AL.JPG

The thing I most love about Osprey is you can sometimes get very detailed information on really obscure military topics, which is always nice.

Best Regards

skabbe
08-27-2005, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by NonWonderDog:
Skabbe probably means the S-37 Berkut, now the SU-47, the goofy one with the forward-swept wings. I think there were plasma-stealth rumors about it.

yes yes, remove the U.

just like this Ju287 i think the S-37 or now SU-47 is very cool. the wings makes su-47 very good in subsonic speed but instable and reduced lift at supersonic speed. but anyhow forward-swept wings kick as*. its just very hard to build and make them stable.

Kuna15
08-27-2005, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by Badsight.:
only one SU-37 prototype ever made

white 711
http://xs43.xs.to/pics/05345/su37.jpg

Now that is one beautiful aircraft IMHO.