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quillan
04-05-2005, 05:07 PM
With the release of this game a couple of weeks ago, I got hooked immediately, and was struck by the desire to see Das Boot again. So, I went and ordered the 5 hour miniseries version, and at the same time, I ordered the novel and also a copy of the English translation of the U-boat Commanders Handbook (both on the recommendation of people on this board). A week or so back, there was a short discussion on here about whether or not the scenes in Das Boot where the chief would call "All hands forward" to make the boat bow heavy really happened or not.

Well, I was sitting here, waiting for SHIII to finish uninstalling and reinstalling (couldn't install patch 1.2 because I had modifified the Flotilla.cfg file to fix the St. Nazaire/Kiel bug), and was reading through the Commander's Handbook, and came across this:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>182.) In steering the submarine downward to reach the required low depth, the trimming should at first be carried out by boat-hands, if it transpires that the hydroplanes are temporarily not sufficient; trimming with water is not a necessity until the submarine has reached the required depth, and is being steered into it. Care should be exercised in trimming by boat-hands; "all-hands" maneuvers should not be called for unnecessarily, but only in dangerous situations. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sure sounds like they really did do that.

Zmidd
04-05-2005, 05:14 PM
I could be wrong, but I think that's what happened during a crash dive - all the non-essential personnel moved to the bow to tilt it down faster.

VoidChoice
04-05-2005, 05:16 PM
Could you break that down for me, i don't really understand whit it is saying. It seems abit contradictory. What handbook is it anyway?

quillan
04-05-2005, 05:38 PM
The U-Boat Commander's Handbook. It's an English translation of a 1943 edition of the German manual for U-Boat commanders, that was captured during the war and translated by the navy. Trimming means balancing the boat to keep it level; it's normally done with water in tanks fore and aft. What's that seems to be saying is "Don't bother using water until you reach the depth you intend to go to. Just move people forward or aft to balance it until then."

BaneSixEcho
04-05-2005, 08:08 PM
That's a great book. I ordered it shortly after buying this game and have read it cover to cover. For $9USD it's a steal... and the best 'strategy guide' you could buy!

panthercules
04-05-2005, 09:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bane_v2:
That's a great book. I ordered it shortly after buying this game and have read it cover to cover. For $9USD it's a steal... and the best 'strategy guide' you could buy! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep - my copy finally arrived yesterday http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

A very cool read, and well worth the 9 bucks. I'm particularly fascinated by the passages about setting up the approach for the attack in terms of direction of the sun, moon, wind, etc. in relation to the sub and the target - some of which I had figured out on my own but some of which was kinda counter to what I would have thought until I read the reasoning behind it.

However, I must admit I've read through some of the sections around 131-150 on the mechanics of various torpedo attack procedures (especially the 45 degree and 90 degree angle attacks discussion) and I'm still sorta baffled by the way the manual uses "D/F" in the various formulas - the glossary at the beginning defines "D/F" as direction finding (based on taking bearings on the enemy's radio transmissions, as you would expect), but it seems like these sections must be using the term "D/F" with some other meaning 'cause it just doesn't seem to make sense the way it's used in those torpedo attack formulas and stuff.

I suspect something may have been lost in the translation in parts, but maybe I just need to read it through a few more times - in any event, there's plenty of other cool stuff in this little book - I recommend it to anybody who's into the immersion factor of SH3

malkuth
04-05-2005, 11:20 PM
Just watched Das Boot this weekend. Everytime they crashed dived they sent personell to front.

And near the end when they blew all tanks they sent them all to back.

jensofswede2004
04-06-2005, 03:01 AM
You should read the book wich the movie is based on. It's great! There is so much more info about the life on the U-boat! I learned a lot more about technical questions than I ever did watching the movie

axeman3d
04-06-2005, 03:17 AM
Where'd you guys get the manual? Amazon?

quillan
04-06-2005, 08:10 AM
Yeah. When I ordered it Amazon didn't have any in stock (said usually ships in 2-3 weeks), but one of their associated stores had it. $8.95 plus shipping, and I got it in a week.

BaneSixEcho
04-06-2005, 08:33 AM
Not to drag this thread totally off-topic, but...

To any of you that have read the U-Boat Commanders Handbook: the term 'dog-leg course' is mentioned quite a bit and they reference another naval manual for more info. I don't have that manual so I was wondering what it is exactly.

I'm interpretting a dog-leg course as an arc that closes the distance while at the same time keeps the bow pointed at the target to present the smallest profile possible at all times.

Instead of setting a course perfectly perpendicular to your targets course (where they could get a nice side view of your sub) you'd start on a nearly 180 degree course and slowly turn into the target as they got closer.

Am I interpretting that right or am I totally off base?

dquock
04-06-2005, 09:15 AM
Very interesting historical information from the handbook. I'm going to have to check it out.

Bane, I'm going to admit to you that I do not own the handbook, so this is my wild guess with a little bit of knowledge creeping in from various sub manuals from previous games.

I believe the dog-leg is similar to something called an "end-around" maneuver. The "end-around" is typically executed when you find yourself behind a convoy. The advantage is that the sub silhouette is small and low in the water so you can see ships much more easily than they can see you.

In the "end-around", you keep far enough away that they can not see you, but you can still see them. You sprint ahead on the surface parallel to its course. When you get sufficiently ahead of it, you turn in towards the target, submerge, and set up a 90 deg AOB shot.

I believe the dog-leg refers to running ahead of the target, then moving in perpendicular to the course to give you a broadside shot.

Keeping the bow pointed at the target does make a lot of sense. I think it depends on whether you are ahead of the convoy or not.