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Caspian237
11-30-2009, 05:56 PM
Hi.

I'm fairly new with IL2 1946 so I've been learning the game flying the JU-87 which seems like a stable platform. I've got the hang of the basics such as landing and taking off etc.

I'm having a little problem with dive bombing. I understand the concept and have little difficulty placing bombs on large targets such as bridges and airfields. However during the campaign I am often tasked with attacking tanks, trains and convoys. Here is the difficulty. When the group is in formation above 3000 - 3500 ft I simply can't see what I'm supposed to be bombing! I've tried using the padlocks but until the game decides to show me the ground target these are very little help.

Is there anyway to have target ID's or icons for ground targets as there is with aircraft or even increase the viewing distance so that I can see them sooner?

Otherwise can anyone give me some tips on getting bombs on the enemy?

Thanks

Frankthetank36
11-30-2009, 06:16 PM
Just start the dive a few seconds after the leaders start theirs. I don't fly Stukas very often but you should be able to see the target as you get closer to it. There are buttons that zoom in and out, I think you have to assign a key to them. With the Stuka you are lucky because there is a big floor window that you can look down through and (I think) there is some sort of dive sight that makes aiming a snap.

Anyway I have a couple of questions about divebombing myself. I've started Val and Dauntless campaigns and I am not sure what exactly you are supposed to do in order to maintain sideways directional control (up/down is easy, just use the elevator). The rudder doesn't seem to alter the flighpath much, just where the nose is pointing. And the ailerons+rudder seem too slow to accurately align the wings perpendicularly with the ship and keep the sight on target (I've tried attacking with the wings parallel to the ship and I can definitely see why that is not effective). Another thing: how are you maintaining sight of the target when the SBD has a pretty crappy floor window and the D3A doesn't have one at all? I usually just fly directly over the target, wait a few seconds, and roll over and start the dive when I think I am just over it, but I would appreciate a more accurate method. Also when are you supposed to release? I've seen tutorials say that you should release around 3000-4000 ft, but that seems really, REALLY high, I usually drop at around 1000ft.

Muddy17
11-30-2009, 06:43 PM
OK with the Val and SBD you got to remember that your not in a sneek attack, you up there and they know it so first sight you target.
Then get into some attack position while out of range of AA {hope you have escorts} IE from astern is best I think because the ship is still moving in the same direction as you so as you roll inverted you can keep your eye on the target through the upper part of the windscreen.
And as you pass apx 1500M you can pull BACK on the stick to go straight 90* and release your bomb to where the ship will be when the bomb gets there {aim for the bow is best}.

There is a good campign for learning. I beleive it is from "zeus-cat" at M4T called Straight Down I think that will get you where you want to be.

Actually Zeus-cat has a few really good D/L's at Mission 4 Today that are well written and good training to.

{was that ok Zeus?}

Muddy

Romanator21
11-30-2009, 07:04 PM
There is no other way to approximate where the target is if you're in a Val. Just fly with the target to your side. Estimate its distance, and then time when you need to roll over. It's ok if your dive is not perfectly vertical, but then aiming is not as straight-forward.

Look at the leader if you have one, and follow him. Otherwise, pay close attention to the brief, and maybe write a note of where the target is. It's ok to make S-turns and look through your side windows to find the road the target should be on, for example. Don't try to find the target through that bottom window, it's there only to help you make sure you are over it.

A dive-bomber is most vulnerable during and after the dive. 3000 foot (1000 m) pullout is advisable, and immediately get back up to altitude. In the Stuka you can set an altitude at which it drops bombs and pulls you out automatically. It may make aiming hard, but it increases your chances of survival. I should also mention that you need to start a dive from 3000-4000 meters. And even though the Ju-87 D-5 has those 20 mm guns, don't ever use it Sturmovic-style, or you will die. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"The rudder doesn't seem to alter the flighpath much" It never should. But it helps to keep the ball centered. If you are using trim, center it, and then readjust as you situate your dive.

Frankthetank36
11-30-2009, 07:20 PM
So how do you keep the flightpath perfectly centered on the enemy ship if you are off a little bit when you start? You guys must be really good if you can hit targets from 3000 feet (subs in particular look absolutely tiny from that height). What exactly is the disadvantage of dropping at 1000-1500 ft, pulling out (not really many G's surprisingly), and racing away at low altitude until you are out of range of the enemy ships' guns? I always thought that you are safest from AAA if you are as low as possible. When I turn on autopilot after pulling out they always climb while in range of the ships' gunners and I always get shot down.

Romanator21
11-30-2009, 07:40 PM
What exactly is the disadvantage of dropping at 1000-1500 ft, pulling out (not really many G's surprisingly), and racing away at low altitude until you are out of range of the enemy ships' guns?

Because, first of all, Stukas don't race http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Besides the ship guns, you also need to consider enemy fighters.

Frankthetank36
11-30-2009, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Romanator21:
Because, first of all, Stukas don't race http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Besides the ship guns, you also need to consider enemy fighters.

Lol, it feels like racing when you're doing 250kts compared to the 150kts that these things cruise at. But even with fighters, the tail gunner can only shoot above so if you're low they can't fire from below the gunner's arc (this is usually my favored method for taking out divebombers). But let's say you're attacking ships without fighter defense: is a low drop good in that case? Seems if you're in a position to avoid enemy fighters you're a sitting duck for the AA, and vice versa.

Muddy17
11-30-2009, 07:51 PM
Well my Friend it is nothing more than practice.

You must have seen those black and white vids from the war of all the spectacular explosions after Dive bomb runs. Well if they were not cut down you would see "ALOT" of near misses and total misses. IRL a near miss could often damage a ship. I love to DB and I miss as often as I hit.

I do tend to rock the plane sideways left and right to keep a veiw on ground targets, not real violently but back and forth. this also helps throw of the AA. And with Ships you can aleron roll to adjust but if your comming in from the side and releasing high your sights should be ahead of the ship if it is moving.

Romanator21
11-30-2009, 07:55 PM
While you will have that extra boost after the dive, it will bleed very quickly. It's my personal observation that I do better higher up. Flack will take out a Val no matter what, high or low. Online though, most pilots won't chase you up to 4000 m, unless you are dealing with a pilot more patient/focused on realism. I've had only one successful attempt in an SBD at running away at low altitude. Every other time my plume of leaking gas gives me away, and most pilots can't resist a big juicy injured dive bomber at low level. Running works better for fighters and strike mission in the Mossie, but not dive bombers.

Muddy17
11-30-2009, 07:55 PM
If you Like low alt bombing give skip bombing a try it is a blast as well.

Frankthetank36
11-30-2009, 08:01 PM
^I'm actually trying torpedo bombing--started a Betty campaign but after like 2 missions it had some sort of problem (said DG failed or something like that and gave me a blank map screen and wouldn't generate any more missions). I'm gonna try Zeus-cat's IL2T campaign after I figure out why my friggin' computer can't download it (or 4.09, or half the other things I try to download, it seems).

Romanator21
11-30-2009, 08:04 PM
I had the same problem once. Give me a moment, and I'll search what someone said to fix that for me.

Romanator21
11-30-2009, 08:12 PM
From crucislancer:

Occasionally the DGen.exe program fails, though I don't think I've seen it fail when the debrief comes up.

It's usually pretty rare, you should be ok if you just delete the campaign and start again. If you were a few missions into the campaign then I would suggest the following.

Open the campaign.ini file in the campaign folder that has the campaign in question, it should look like this:

[Main]
ExecGenerator DGen.exe
Class il2.game.campaign.CampaignBlue
awardsClass il2.game.campaign.AwardsDEfighter
[list]
40729.mis
40730.mis
40801.mis
40805.mis
40806.mis
end.mis


If the last mission you played was the one causing the issue, change the last entry to the previous mission, like so:

[Main]
ExecGenerator DGen.exe
Class il2.game.campaign.CampaignBlue
awardsClass il2.game.campaign.AwardsDEfighter
[list]
40729.mis
40730.mis
40801.mis
40805.mis
40805.mis <---- note the change here
end.mis


This will cause you to replay the last mission that worked, then when you are finished hopefully the DGen.exe program will work and generate the debrief and the next mission with no issues.

Frankthetank36
11-30-2009, 08:15 PM
I'll try that last part. But I started like 4 Betty campaigns in a row and all of them had that problem after a mission or two. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that all of the missions were airstarts (the only airstarts I've seen in dynamic campaigns).

Zeus-cat
11-30-2009, 08:54 PM
I'm having a little problem with dive bombing. I understand the concept and have little difficulty placing bombs on large targets such as bridges and airfields. However during the campaign I am often tasked with attacking tanks, trains and convoys. Here is the difficulty. When the group is in formation above 3000 - 3500 ft I simply can't see what I'm supposed to be bombing! I've tried using the padlocks but until the game decides to show me the ground target these are very little help.

Is there anyway to have target ID's or icons for ground targets as there is with aircraft or even increase the viewing distance so that I can see them sooner?

Otherwise can anyone give me some tips on getting bombs on the enemy?

Dive bombing tanks and trucks from high altitude is a job for the AI as you simply can't see them until you are very low. For me, I have to be so low that I can't effectively hit anything unless I was lucky enough to accidentally line up on them when I started my dive.

Campaigns that come with the game are exceptionally frustrating for dive bombers as they routinely send out 8 planes to attack 4 tanks or some such nonsense. And to top it off the AI kills everything before you even see it. Another good one is to send you out to search for downed pilots at sea. The pilots are in rubber rafts and you are flying at 11,000 feet.

If you are sent out to attack tanks I would come in at a few thousand feet and attack them in a shallow dive like you would with an IL-2 or a P-47.

There is no way to activate iucons for ground targets. The best you can do id turn on map icons, but that will only tell you that tanks are on the map in a certain area; it certainly is not good enough to use to set up a dive bombing attack.

Here are my campaigns:
Straight From the Farm my training campaign for takeoffs and landings. You will learn how to take off and land on grass airstrips and then you move out to sea and do the same on aircraft carriers.

Straight and True a torpedo campaign for the Russian IL-2T which is a dedicated torpedo bomber version of the IL-2.

Straight Down a carrier-based dive-bombing campaign for the U.S. Navy SBD-3.

Straight Down Some More my second carrier-based dive-bombing campaign for the U.S. Navy SBD-3 (this is a sequel to Straight Down).

Straight Shot you will be launched by catapult off the IJN Heavy Cruiser Hashimoto in this campaign for the Rufe; the Japanese floatplane version of the Zero fighter.

Straight Into an Icy Hell This is the sequel to Straight Shot, but you are now flying the Rufe in the icy waters of the Aleutian Islands.

Straight Out of the Mist a skip bombing campaign for the U.S. Army B-25. Most missions are flown solo as the AI will not skip bomb.

Frankthetank36
11-30-2009, 08:59 PM
Zeus when I try to download your campaigns it gives me some garbage saying something is corrupted. And they all look like so much fun.

Zeus-cat
11-30-2009, 09:21 PM
I just downloaded all of them without a problem.

I can email them to you some time. Just send me an email for which ones you would like me to send.

zeuscat@sbcglobal.net

Caspian237
11-30-2009, 10:17 PM
Thanks for the advice on Dive Bombing with the Stuka. I've followed some advice and improved accuracy against small targets. Sadly not much I can do when the 5 planes in front of me take out the four tanks. It's a pest when the flight leader starts screaming at you for going after targets of opportunity.

I'm using external and internal ground padlocks extensively and staying close to the guy infront when he dives. I've also turned on the map icons although this kills the realism a little bit. Not much I can do about that if I want to follow the mission objectives properly.

Just on the topic of the Ju-87. I understand there is a mod that replaces the plane's dive siren with a more authntic sounding one. Can someone direct me to this?

Thanks again.

ROXunreal
12-01-2009, 06:05 AM
Convoys and trains are relatively easy to spot with zoom view. Trains stand out on railways and car convoys raise a lot of dust behind them and are thus visible. Parked cars and tanks however are more difficult to find.

Frankthetank36
12-01-2009, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
I just downloaded all of them without a problem.

I can email them to you some time. Just send me an email for which ones you would like me to send.

zeuscat@sbcglobal.net

I think my computer has some sort of problem because the same thing also happens when I try to download 4.09 with Camunzip, says something about the files being corrupted.

K_Freddie
12-01-2009, 11:51 AM
Use the view zoom ...

You approach by getting an approximate bearing from the view through the floor... As you approach do little zigzags, banking to one side doing a sideslip to get the target in view (via Zoom view).

Once over the target, dive brakes and cut engine as you roll over. If you lose the target, roll the plane around until it's in view. Depending on your dive angle you want to keep the target just above your engine cowl. Watch your elevator trim here.

When the bomb releases automatically, pull in dive breaks, and full throttle to ground level - this will give you getaway-speed for a few minutes, keep low with gentle twists and turns as you do not want to lose too much speed.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Frankthetank36
12-01-2009, 01:19 PM
So are you guys using aileron+elevator for sideways control or rudder when you are actually in the dive?

Maeksevhin
12-01-2009, 11:56 PM
I also started a Stuka campaign (with the Lowengrin generator), and its been, well, bridge bombing missions so far...But I remember when I first got the game and I had to shoot tanks and remember how frustrated I was that the graphics wouldn't even generate them until I was close, too close to really alter my course drastically.

But, I've gotten better at it, and people here have pointed out some important things, use the map icons to see where they are in a general area, and then zoom in with the view and scour that area. Use the enemy view (ctrl-f2 I think is the default) it might show you where they are if you're lucky enough to actually have them on that exact spot, or around it.

I think if you're high enough, and you can deduce an approximate area where the tanks are, you can dive and probably have some luck, it might not hurt to slow down time as well.

Also, I've gotten somewhat used to identifying enemy locations by anti-aircraft fire, if you happen to see bright lights and shooting bullets up towards your squadron mates, then it's a good sign there something down there.