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View Full Version : FW-190A5 vs. 190A6



MEGILE
12-13-2005, 04:19 PM
These two planes own so hard it hurts my spleen.
BUT.. which is the best?!

I can't tell.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

I PK Leadspitter at will in both... but I can't decide which one is the better of the two.

Top speeds are very similar.. but the A5 seems to have the edge in turning, or is this my imagination?

Fish says A6... but what the heck does he know? he is a nub.

danjama
12-13-2005, 04:29 PM
A6

MEGILE
12-13-2005, 04:31 PM
Care to quantify that statement?

VW-IceFire
12-13-2005, 04:32 PM
Correct me if I'm mistaken but the A-6 is almost identical to the A-5 except that the wings were slightly redesigned...given a slight weight reduction and armed with the much more capable MG151/20 instead of the MG-FF.

So with a reduction in weight and everything else being the same...the A-6 is going to be slightly better than the A-5.

Xiolablu3
12-13-2005, 04:38 PM
I think the A5 has outer 20mm MGFF, whereas the A6 has 4xMG151/20.

Could be wrong tho, not an expert on 190 versions.

EDIT : Eeek 3 replies in the time it took me to write this, sorry to repeat Icefire.

MEGILE
12-13-2005, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:


So with a reduction in weight and everything else being the same...the A-6 is going to be slightly better than the A-5.

Correct. You would ASSUME the A6 would be more agile... but ingame the change in armament appears to reduce agility a smidge. IMO... feel free to prove me wrong.

faustnik
12-13-2005, 04:42 PM
I think the real key is stop flying the Luftwaffe n00b planes and develop the skill required to fly the Spitfire. You have to leave the training wheels home at some point.

danjama
12-13-2005, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
I think the real key is stop flying the Luftwaffe n00b planes and develop the skill required to fly the Spitfire. You have to leave the training wheels home at some point.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

MEGILE
12-13-2005, 04:45 PM
Faustnik

here is impartiality <================================================== =============>Here is you

Now plz take a sit and answer the question, because I know you know.. and now you know I know you know.

faustnik
12-13-2005, 04:47 PM
The Blue Agenda is dead. Live in the now.

faustnik
12-13-2005, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
Now plz take a sit and answer the question, because I know you know.. and now you know I know you know.

The FM is the same, it's all in your head. Use the A6 it has better outer cannon.

MEGILE
12-13-2005, 04:54 PM
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mm

ok thanks.

TX-Gunslinger
12-13-2005, 04:54 PM
Bump......

Add "Much better outer cannon"

Other differences are imaginary.

S~

MEGILE
12-13-2005, 05:01 PM
Imaginary eh? All in my head?!

I have proofs! Roswell 54, I was there!

faustnik
12-13-2005, 05:01 PM
If we had the A4 running at 1.42ata@2700rpm like it should by late '42, then we'd have just as much speed and better maneuverability. Take of the outer cannons without the ETC rack and you squeeze out even more speed and maneuverability.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Oops, jezz, I fell right off the wagon back into the Blue Agenda. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

But, I can quit tomorrow, that's right tomorrow! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

MEGILE
12-13-2005, 05:04 PM
Agreed 100% Faustnik....... 200% even

To even it out, I often have A4s fighting Spit V Fs, instead of LFs....
Not that the A4 can't handel the LF mind.. but the fight seems more realistic with the 1941 Spit.

Xiolablu3
12-13-2005, 05:22 PM
Sorry to be serious for a second, but does removing the outer cannons in game actually make any difference...to anything?


I understand it should, but is it worth it in game?

faustnik
12-13-2005, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Sorry to be serious for a second, but does removing the outer cannons in game actually make any difference...to anything?


I understand it should, but is it worth it in game?

Yes, if you are in jabo configuration and making a bombing run, you will be faster with the outer cannons removed or with both the outer cannon and the Mg17 removed. The weight reduction inproves speed for the jabos.

In fighter configuration do not select one of the cannon versions as this will add the ETC rack and only slow you down.

Viper2005_
12-13-2005, 06:10 PM
A5 has better default skins than A6. This much I know. A small detail, but an important one!

I thought Oleg said that the ETC rack was drawn but not modelled when you opt to remove cannon. Perhaps some testing would be in order...

danjama
12-13-2005, 06:19 PM
The A4 has the best default of the 190's, except maybe the A9, but even then its close!

Viper2005_
12-13-2005, 06:23 PM
True, but the A5 has better performance than the A4, and almost as good a set of default skins. The A9 is greatly limited by the fact that it has no default winter skin.

I really love flying the earlier Fw-190s...

danjama
12-13-2005, 06:27 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Whats up with no winter skin for A9?

p1ngu666
12-13-2005, 06:46 PM
DID A quick test, a5 vs a6 ai vs ai
one time a5 win, one time a6.

curiously, i swapped sides for round two, and blue won again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

TX-Gunslinger
12-13-2005, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
If we had the A4 running at 1.42ata@2700rpm like it should by late '42, then we'd have just as much speed and better maneuverability. Take of the outer cannons without the ETC rack and you squeeze out even more speed and maneuverability.


One can only dream. Since you started that dream, I'll add:

With MW-50

CUJO_1970
12-13-2005, 08:03 PM
I just assumed the A-6 was faster than the A-5 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

It is, isn't it?


The A-6 in real life had a redesigned and strengthened wing, adaptable for the larger outboard cannons and armament options the Focke was going to be carrying.

Our FW190A-6 should have the MK-108 loadout option.

Or, what I like to call the "BFC" option http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

polak5
12-13-2005, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by CUJO_1970:
I just assumed the A-6 was faster than the A-5 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

It is, isn't it?

:
I think it is dude, could be wrong thougth
edit: but then again it could be better for the A-6 cuz of the lighter wings. Probabbly roughly the same in game.

faustnik
12-13-2005, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
DID A quick test, a5 vs a6 ai vs ai
one time a5 win, one time a6.

curiously, i swapped sides for round two, and blue won again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Proof!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Blue is overmodeled. It's not the plane, it's the icon color!

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2005, 10:31 PM
I think the A6 overheats quicker than the A5, thats the impression I got when flying off line campaigns.

FW190A9 best default skin in game

MEGILE
12-14-2005, 05:00 AM
Originally posted by CUJO_1970:

Our FW190A-6 should have the MK-108 loadout option.

Or, what I like to call the "BFC" option http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Now we don't need those melon launchers, the MG151 Spud guns do just fine. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Viper2005_
I thought Oleg said that the ETC rack was drawn but not modelled when you opt to remove cannon. Perhaps some testing would be in order...

I'll test again, but the last 20,000 times I tested in 3.04 and 4.01... the bomb rack was definatly modelled.
Although the weight decrease certainly is.. A6/A5 turns better IMO without the extra 151s.

Xiolablu3
12-14-2005, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CUJO_1970:

Our FW190A-6 should have the MK-108 loadout option.

Or, what I like to call the "BFC" option http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Now we don't need those melon launchers, the MG151 Spud guns do just fine. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Shouldnt that be BFG? 'Big Fudgin' Gun'?


Thanks for your info on the 190 wing guns Faustnik. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MEGILE
12-14-2005, 05:45 AM
Bombrack speed loss is still there.
Hope Oleg sees the light in BoB + 1 year

robban75
12-14-2005, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by CUJO_1970:
I just assumed the A-6 was faster than the A-5 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

It is, isn't it?


Nope, same fast. 570km/h at sealevel. I haven't tested high altitude. But I doubt there's any difference there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

MEGILE
12-14-2005, 06:59 AM
Robban, what happened to your Focke Wulf sig?
You haven't gone to the "other" side have you? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Faustnik remove his name from the list of agendees.

lol is agendees even a word? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

alert_1
12-14-2005, 07:04 AM
Fw190A6 had slightly lighter wings structure, but also sligthly heavier weaponry (MG FF/M=28kg, Mg151/20=42 kg)
Also Fw190A6 should run at 1.58ATA/2700rpm in 1.gear and at 1.65ATA/2700rpm in 2.gear..

whiteladder
12-14-2005, 07:05 AM
Sorry for cross posting if you seen this already please ignore.



I did some tests to check the acceleration of the FW190, if you didn`t already know the whole fw series suffers from slow acceleration if you stay in automatic pitch control. Airwarfare.com has some pretty good advice regarding engine managment in the fw, I have rechecked this under 4.02 and done a comparison with the Spits.

Test conditions

Crimea 12:00
700 m
50% fuel
rad closed
WEP enable (on those models with it fitted)
1G through out test.

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/9213/image22ti1.jpg


http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/1069/imagecompa3uh.jpg

MEGILE
12-14-2005, 07:38 AM
So the anton will accelerate faster at 80% than on auto? ok.
How does affect cooling though?

Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

robban75
12-14-2005, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
Robban, what happened to your Focke Wulf sig?
You haven't gone to the "other" side have you? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Faustnik remove his name from the list of agendees.

lol is agendees even a word? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Don't worry Megile! The P-40 is cool, but the 190 is cooler. Right now though I'm giving the P-40 some time in the spotlight! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

It is cool looking isn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

JG53Frankyboy
12-14-2005, 07:42 AM
all BMW Fw190 are faster, climb better, accelerate faster when you set the propeller at manual and than as best at 100%.
its like all CSP planes in game than.
weird, but it is like it is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

the Kommandoger├┬Ąt/auto mode is , well, astmatic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

robban75
12-14-2005, 07:43 AM
Great charts whitladder! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

mynameisroland
12-14-2005, 08:27 AM
From my experience in the Fw 190 A4 in patch 4.02 I find that if I use 100% prop pitch it accelerates faster to around 450Km/h then it seems to stagnate so I switch it back to Auto and it picks up again. Ideally you alternate between pitches while accelerating to achieve the best results.

Ive not tested it with a timer or under controlled conditions but I have flown theis aircraft for over 2 years now and there seems to be a difference. I hav'nt tried using 80% yet I will do when I get back home.

Xiolablu3
12-14-2005, 11:21 AM
I have just had my knowledge of accelration turned on its head, unless I am reading the graph wrong??

I thought the Spitfire was one of the fastest accelerators and the FW190A was quite slow???

Am I just getting an illusion since the Spit climbs better than the Anton? I always seem to be able to catch a FW190A6 in a Spitfire 9C. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Is this one of my dreams again, or am I just reading the graph wrong?

MEGILE
12-14-2005, 12:03 PM
The Spitfire IXc will out climb the FW-190A6 if they both climb at their respective best climb speeds.

Bremspropeller
12-14-2005, 12:11 PM
Just in order to be correct:

No operational Anton ever featured the MW-50 device.

No operational A-6 was ever equipped with MK108s.

The R2 R├╝stsatz with the jackhammers in the outer wings were introduced with the A-7. The R8 asn't even started before the late A-8s. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

whiteladder
12-14-2005, 01:11 PM
So the anton will accelerate faster at 80% than on auto? ok.
How does affect cooling though?


I found this really suprising did the test again measured cylinder temp with auto and then 100% pitch and got the following results.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/1302/temp7bl.jpg

CUJO_1970
12-14-2005, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Shouldnt that be BFG? 'Big Fudgin' Gun'?





Big "F[edited]n" Cannons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

faustnik
12-14-2005, 02:05 PM
Everybody in this thread should also be here:

Fw190 Consortium Forum (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=8)

It's a forum for PF Fw190 pilots.

p1ngu666
12-14-2005, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I have just had my knowledge of accelration turned on its head, unless I am reading the graph wrong??

I thought the Spitfire was one of the fastest accelerators and the FW190A was quite slow???

Am I just getting an illusion since the Spit climbs better than the Anton? I always seem to be able to catch a FW190A6 in a Spitfire 9C. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Is this one of my dreams again, or am I just reading the graph wrong?

faster climbing aircraft should accelorate faster, due to excess thrust.

if spit or 190 has overmodeled or undermodeled accel, then that is why the balance of power has swung so decisivly to the fw190

Kuna15
12-14-2005, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
A6

A6.

faustnik
12-14-2005, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:

if spit or 190 has overmodeled or undermodeled accel, then that is why the balance of power has swung so decisivly to the fw190

The Spit IX is superior to the Fw190A6 in acceleration in PF 4.02 up until speeds at which the Fw190A6 would outclimb it, then the situation reverses.

MEGILE
12-14-2005, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by whiteladder:


I found this really suprising did the test again measured cylinder temp with auto and then 100% pitch and got the following results.



Wow... so using 100 pitch won't overheat any faster than on manual?
Can you redo the test with 80% pitch vs. 100 please?

faustnik
12-14-2005, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by whiteladder:


I found this really suprising did the test again measured cylinder temp with auto and then 100% pitch and got the following results.



Wow... so using 100 pitch won't overheat any faster than on manual?
Can you redo the test with 80% pitch vs. 100 please? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah, that is a surprise!!! The warning text sure comes up quick with manual pitch.

woofiedog
12-14-2005, 02:32 PM
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Bilder/Fw190/Fw190A6-1-Nowotny.jpg

Fw 190A-6

In production 6/43 - 12/43
Planes build 569
Engine BMW 801D-2
Armament 2 X 7.92 mm MG

4 X 20 mm MG 151/20 E cannon

1 X ETC 501 centerline rack (not always)

Umrustbausatz
Rustsatze's R1 - attack fighter with 6 X MG 151/20 E cannons, 2 cannons in wingroots and 4 on underwing WB 151/20 gun pods.

R2 - similar to A-5/U6, no planes were produced

R3 - similar to A-5/U11, no planes were produced

R4 - GM 1 nitrogen monoxide injection

R6 - 2 X underwing W.Gr 21 210 mm rocket launch tubes

R2/R6 - bomber interceptor with 2 X MG 17, 2 X MG 151/20, 2 X 30 mm Mk 108 and 2 X W. Gr. 21 210 mm rocket launcer tubes.

R7 - armoured fighter, usually had ETC 501 centerline rack for drop tank.

R8 - R2 and R7 kits combined ie. armour and 2 X 30 mm Mk 108 cannons. Usually MG 17's were removed.

R11 - all weather and night fighter. Some planes were equipped with FuG 217 Neptun J-2 radar.

R12 - R2 and R11 kits combined.

Notes Larger ammo boxes and strenghtened wings amde possible to use heavier armament.

Xiolablu3
12-14-2005, 02:49 PM
Maybe I ought to learn how to use prop pitch.

I never use it.

Kuna15
12-14-2005, 02:56 PM
Don't worry @ Xi many rw pilots didn't used it too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.
tbh lately I don't use pp.

Auto is there for a reason http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

VW-IceFire
12-14-2005, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I have just had my knowledge of accelration turned on its head, unless I am reading the graph wrong??

I thought the Spitfire was one of the fastest accelerators and the FW190A was quite slow???

Am I just getting an illusion since the Spit climbs better than the Anton? I always seem to be able to catch a FW190A6 in a Spitfire 9C. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Is this one of my dreams again, or am I just reading the graph wrong?

faster climbing aircraft should accelorate faster, due to excess thrust.

if spit or 190 has overmodeled or undermodeled accel, then that is why the balance of power has swung so decisivly to the fw190 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Too many new pilots flying the Spitfire thinking the plane will allow them to win. Its the pilot behind the controls...Spitfire IX is a top notch fighter...

Except for me right now as my everything is malfunctioning.

whiteladder
12-14-2005, 03:09 PM
Wow... so using 100 pitch won't overheat any faster than on manual?
Can you redo the test with 80% pitch vs. 100 please?


Done, no real difference as far as I can see. I`m off to bed talk to you guys tomorrow

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/3135/temp0gt.jpg

MEGILE
12-14-2005, 03:48 PM
No differences in cooling?
hmmmm

so at the very least, you could leave prop pitch at 100% (except for diving), reap the benefits of higher acceleration over automatic, but not overheat any faster?

I always figured 100% pitch would eventually kill the engine.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

faustnik
12-14-2005, 04:00 PM
Sorry but, I have to test that one myself. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I wonder if the overheat warning matters for any plane? Maybe we can leave all the CSPs at 100% and ignore the warning?

p1ngu666
12-14-2005, 09:47 PM
cps planes cool off quicker if u drop prop pitch

perform best at 100%, full bannanas http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

robban75
12-15-2005, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I thought the Spitfire was one of the fastest accelerators and the FW190A was quite slow???

Am I just getting an illusion since the Spit climbs better than the Anton? I always seem to be able to catch a FW190A6 in a Spitfire 9C. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif



From what I've read, the Fw 190 has always had excellent acceleration in level flight, and especially in a dive.

You say your able to catch the A-6 in your Spitfire? This could be the reason why. Dive acceleration test below. Alt in meters, TAS in km/h.

Alt --- A-4 - A-5 - VIII

5000 - 304 - 304 - 303
4500 - 490 - 492 - 499
4000 - 612 - 613 - 618
3500 - 702 - 706 - 709
3000 - 774 - 780 - 778
2500 - 833 - 844 - 836
2000 - 883 - 895 - 883
1500 - 924 - 939 - 920
1000 - 958 - 975 - 941

If the planes have equal E when the dive is commenced, the Spit will gain on the 190 during the first 2500-3000 meters.

In the A-4 there's not much you can do at all it seems.