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Brain32
12-20-2005, 07:39 AM
Well the truth is I don't know to navigate, online, I circle above the base waiting for other players and then I just follow them to target http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif
So basically I need help with orientation and navigation on "full real" where in mission briefing it just says that targets are for example at A7,B6 etc...
Can I assume that North is "up", South is "down" etc. on the map and calculate my heading to this assumption. And I don't know how much in km's is one square on the map...

stathem
12-20-2005, 08:47 AM
The map squares are 10km by 10km

Yes, North is 'up'

Check the map before commencing the sortie and try to remember the general heading to fly to the target.

Rivers and roads are your friend. River are particularly useful when at high alt. Try to look down and make what you see 'fit' the map. You can then get a rough estimate of your position. Roads are useful when trying to navigate at 0 feet.

Are you in general talking about co-ops or free flying 'full switch' DF servers?

Brain32
12-20-2005, 08:54 AM
Well I fly mostly on Warclouds and similar servers, but I don't go ground pounding as much as I would like because of navigation, I guess this will change tonight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
THX for the tips http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

antifreeze
12-20-2005, 10:29 AM
The map squares can represent 10km, but it depends on the zoom level. At somepoint when zooming the map they change to 1km. At which zoom level this change happens depends on the size of the map.

The best advise I can give for navigating is to always choose large landmarks. Try to look for bends in rivers and the shapes of forest that extend for kilometres rather than a few hundred metres. Anything that you can clearly identify at a good height. If the landmark can't be seen on the map after zooming in a couple of clicks, then it is probably too small to use.

Navigating full-real in an online war with bad weather and your mates on teamspeak is the most fun to be had from this sim. The sense of isolation and despair felt can be amazing, when you get seperated from your group after a dogfight and are trying to find your way home before your fuel runs out, with enemy aircraft somewhere behind you in the fog.

TC_Stele
12-20-2005, 10:39 AM
I've printed almost all the maps... mainly the ones of those I go online with. You can print most from Airwarfare.com http://airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_maps.htm I laminated mine to use markers to preplan my sorties.

I fly primarily as a ground pounder myself and I try not to take the direct route. So its important for me to preplan my waypoints (distance, time, airspeed) so that I can effectively arrive at the ground targets from the back door.

And practice flying around the maps to be familiar with landmarks.

T_O_A_D
12-20-2005, 10:48 AM
Take a look at this page and print out one of these Compass's, it will help.
http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/fltmidcomp.htm
http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/images/c1a.gif

Brain32
12-20-2005, 11:16 AM
Thanks guys this will save me from many strange situations I found myself in, not to mention the embarassment when team mate asks me where I am, and I don't have a clue http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

EDIT: Just to confirm I got it right, I wonder is this flight plan correct:
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6053/smolensk19ho.gif (http://imageshack.us)

p1ngu666
12-20-2005, 11:59 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

this type of navigating isnt too bad depending on the map.

for a RAF bomber navigator, u sat and did complex maths for the entire mission http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

MrQBerrt
12-20-2005, 12:03 PM
If you find navigating fun, try playing SHIII. When I play that game, I spend more time with my map, calculator, compass, and protractor than I do looking at the actual game.

p1ngu666
12-20-2005, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by TC_Stele:
I've printed almost all the maps... mainly the ones of those I go online with. You can print most from Airwarfare.com http://airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_maps.htm I laminated mine to use markers to preplan my sorties.

I fly primarily as a ground pounder myself and I try not to take the direct route. So its important for me to preplan my waypoints (distance, time, airspeed) so that I can effectively arrive at the ground targets from the back door.

And practice flying around the maps to be familiar with landmarks.

do your markers rub off ?
id do similer, but id rather not waste reems of paper..

Kuna15
12-20-2005, 12:22 PM
The only real assurance that you wont get lost is knowing the terrain. So as painfull as it may seem you will have to remember all distinguished landmarks of specific map.

There are some easy maps like new Guinea and some other island-like maps of which is basically enough to follow coastline or climb up high to see island positions etc.

Also end of map (each side) will somewhat help you to determine where you are. On each end there is nothing besides (usually) green land (no trees, rivers etc.).

T_O_A_D
12-20-2005, 12:34 PM
If you took off from the top left corner of the map, Then yes your flight path is coorect.


Originally posted by Brain32:
Thanks guys this will save me from many strange situations I found myself in, not to mention the embarassment when team mate asks me where I am, and I don't have a clue http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

EDIT: Just to confirm I got it right, I wonder is this flight plan correct:
[/URL]

Waldo.Pepper
12-20-2005, 12:37 PM
This is why we need Radar and other Nav aids in Bob.

Eventualy we need Gee - X-Gerat - BABS - Eureka - etc.

There is an entire galaxy of devices and nav aids that we are not getting.

Archer_F4U
12-20-2005, 12:53 PM
@Pingu: I had some plastic pages lying around (intended to be put in a 3-ring binder and paper inside so you don't need to punch holes in the paper) that work great with wet and dry erasable markers (the ones intended for use with overheads). Slide a map in (or two back-to-back) and it works great to plan flights as well as to jot down notes during the flight (kills, IP address, whatever).

I don't find preflight planning necessary (unless flying above the clouds, in bad weather, or when flying large distances above the ocean). Typically I just fly visually to somewhat easy to spot points, using roads, rivers, towns, and railways to keep track of my position. While you know where you are, fly map to ground - look at your map, see where you are, what's coming, and then look outside for it. If you're lost (assuming you have a rouch idea where you are) fly ground to map - look for a prominent feature like a sharp bend in a river, multiple roads/railways close together, or even a prominent hill/mountain then find it on your map, I've found forests also work quite well, especially if they have a clearing the middle.

Lastly, I keep a protractor at my computer for rough headings while I'm flying. I just hold it up to the screen, get a rough heading, and refine it visually once more or less on track. Soon you won't need the protractor and will be able to get fairly accurate headings just by looking at the map.

LStarosta
12-20-2005, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

this type of navigating isnt too bad depending on the map.

for a RAF bomber navigator, u sat and did complex maths for the entire mission http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


Complex math? It's just trig...

I'm a big boy and I'm in Calculus I. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

MLudner
12-20-2005, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Well the truth is I don't know to navigate, online, I circle above the base waiting for other players and then I just follow them to target http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif
So basically I need help with orientation and navigation on "full real" where in mission briefing it just says that targets are for example at A7,B6 etc...
Can I assume that North is "up", South is "down" etc. on the map and calculate my heading to this assumption. And I don't know how much in km's is one square on the map...

If you're trying to find the badguys just fly toward the opposing bases after you get to altitude and somewhere in between yours and theirs you'll blunder upon a furball. I learned that trick the hardway.

Either that, or learn how to use a compass...
(kidding)

Brain32
12-20-2005, 05:19 PM
Well, I just finished testing my new skills on Warclouds, and I wasn't lost at any time. I made a flight plan, took an egg found the target, and bombed the sh** out of that bridge http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

T_O_A_D
12-20-2005, 05:55 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

p1ngu666
12-20-2005, 06:50 PM
nice one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

archer, cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif when i fix my printer ill give that a go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Lstarosta, a naviagotor on say a lanc would start off with a "fix", ie, im over lake oleg, and then quite likely, may haveto naviate blind untill another fix could be found.

just a simple matter of working out the course, the groundspeed, the airspeed, at what time to turn and how much. oh and u hadto arrive at each place at a certain time, not before and not after. bomb runs where also done off timed runs from a know point if there was cloud cover.

they also hadto note down everything.

oh and certain things change depending where in the world u are too, to make it easier http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Waldo.Pepper
12-20-2005, 07:00 PM
a naviagator on say a lanc

I think a navigator on a Lanc would use GEE till the jammming got so bad over the continent that he would switch to H2S, for brief periods while en route. Otherwise he would use starsighting through the dome on top of the plane to fix his location. (weather permitting). He might use another system called CONSORT as well.

Kuna15
12-20-2005, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Well, I just finished testing my new skills on Warclouds, and I wasn't lost at any time. I made a flight plan, took an egg found the target, and bombed the sh** out of that bridge http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TC_Stele
12-20-2005, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TC_Stele:
I've printed almost all the maps... mainly the ones of those I go online with. You can print most from Airwarfare.com http://airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_maps.htm I laminated mine to use markers to preplan my sorties.

I fly primarily as a ground pounder myself and I try not to take the direct route. So its important for me to preplan my waypoints (distance, time, airspeed) so that I can effectively arrive at the ground targets from the back door.

And practice flying around the maps to be familiar with landmarks.

do your markers rub off ?
id do similer, but id rather not waste reems of paper.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I have the wet-wipe Vis-a-vis pen and some multi-colored dry erase markers.

Also, I use a metal Mission Brief Checklist (depending on the situation)about 9x6inches that straps to your leg for easy reference such as jotting down waypoint coords, alt, speed, eta, notes on target, etc. Its way more resourcesful than having to waste tons of paper.

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/6333/screenshot5ci.png

Doesn't help me shoot down others better, just makes it a tad easier on me flying from point A to B, as well as making it feel a little more immersive.

clipboards: http://www.avrid.com/

Tully__
12-21-2005, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
nice one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

archer, cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif when i fix my printer ill give that a go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Lstarosta, a naviagotor on say a lanc would start off with a "fix", ie, im over lake oleg, and then quite likely, may haveto naviate blind untill another fix could be found.

just a simple matter of working out the course, the groundspeed, the airspeed, at what time to turn and how much. oh and u hadto arrive at each place at a certain time, not before and not after. bomb runs where also done off timed runs from a know point if there was cloud cover.

they also hadto note down everything.

oh and certain things change depending where in the world u are too, to make it easier http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It's still trig though, just a lot of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif