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f.ip2
08-07-2007, 10:22 PM
Hi

after reading many threads about modeled planes I got the question about how the planes are calculated in flight.

how does Il2 know when the BF109 stalls? Is there actually a complex physics engine wokring in the background which can calculate the lift and performance of the planes through the 3D models provided?

About some of the Germans crazy planes you can read that air tunnel tests showed design problems and thus needed the ingame model to be changed. It reads like that there is a realistic physics engine working.

Also about the damage system, does damage be taken into account? lets say 33,5% of elevators are gone. Visually I find the damage system incredible, but how much is this only a specialFX and how much is it actually changing the flight dynamics of a plane.


Besides the funny accidents / bugs like a b-17 flying rolls all the time like crazy faster than my FW190 can do.

f.ip2
08-07-2007, 10:22 PM
Hi

after reading many threads about modeled planes I got the question about how the planes are calculated in flight.

how does Il2 know when the BF109 stalls? Is there actually a complex physics engine wokring in the background which can calculate the lift and performance of the planes through the 3D models provided?

About some of the Germans crazy planes you can read that air tunnel tests showed design problems and thus needed the ingame model to be changed. It reads like that there is a realistic physics engine working.

Also about the damage system, does damage be taken into account? lets say 33,5% of elevators are gone. Visually I find the damage system incredible, but how much is this only a specialFX and how much is it actually changing the flight dynamics of a plane.


Besides the funny accidents / bugs like a b-17 flying rolls all the time like crazy faster than my FW190 can do.

papotex
08-08-2007, 01:20 AM
all i can say is that this sim is being used for
testing of the new generation of prop plane combat sim being released sometime next year,
by the same developers, i think THATS the one thats gona take many calculations in airframe vs
air dinamics, suposedly is even gona calculate more accuredly the effect of weather on airframes, plus there wont be no guesing on aerodinamics because the ww2 aircraft being showcased on that new sim are still flying in real life today.

il2 46 flight models are not perfect, they have been refined trough the years(7+) and they have managed to give 250+ flyable planes in the sim
their own characteristics that most people here
(some are real pilots) are satisfied with.

just think about with all the developers have learned with this sim what their next creation is gona be like.

as for damage model, its fun to do a strafing run and after hearing your plane getting shot
and your plane start behaving in a manner that you instinctively look at the wing that took damage, that to me is worth a million bucks.

BoB is going to take a leap in all these aspects. really... if you wana ask if these flight models and damage are real wait for BoB

rnzoli
08-08-2007, 02:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">lets say 33,5% of elevators are gone. Visually I find the damage system incredible, but how much is this only a specialFX and how much is it actually changing the flight dynamics of a plane. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Physics calculations are not derived from the 3D model.
The game engine tracks your damage status to various components and
1) gives a corresponding visual sign of damage
2) modifies the aircraft's fligth parameters (e.g., elevator effectiveness).

But to allow the whole thing to run on a cheap PC, the damage levels are fairly simple, maybe there are 20-30 objects, with perhaps 2-3 damage levels. Your elevator may be
a) working fine
b) half shot
b) completely shot off.

In the above example, there is no 33.5% damage, only 0, 50 and 100% http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Correspondinly, you will see either feel the normal response, slow response or no response to elevator imput.

You may consider this too simplified, but things can get really complex anyway, get your half aileron shot, rudder completely out, elevator half shot as well, fuel tank leaking (and draining your fuel), engine light smoke, oiled windscreen, holes in your wing reducing your speed and giving you asymmetric stalls...should I continue? You can get your hands full easily.

I think the more detailed damage model is given to the namesake of the sim: IL-2 ground attack aircraft. Try to fly it in combat, it's so rewarding to land it without elevators and ailerons, purely on rudder and trottle and flaps http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

M_Gunz
08-08-2007, 06:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by f.ip2:
Hi

after reading many threads about modeled planes I got the question about how the planes are calculated in flight.

how does Il2 know when the BF109 stalls? Is there actually a complex physics engine wokring in the background which can calculate the lift and performance of the planes through the 3D models provided?

About some of the Germans crazy planes you can read that air tunnel tests showed design problems and thus needed the ingame model to be changed. It reads like that there is a realistic physics engine working.

Also about the damage system, does damage be taken into account? lets say 33,5% of elevators are gone. Visually I find the damage system incredible, but how much is this only a specialFX and how much is it actually changing the flight dynamics of a plane.


Besides the funny accidents / bugs like a b-17 flying rolls all the time like crazy faster than my FW190 can do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We were shown from the start that much is pre-calculated and FM calcs are by shortcut but
still more accurate to real flight behaviour than other combat flight sims, more complete
in depth.

Twice there have been database hacks that have shown glimpses into the parameters used.
While graphics of damage are very limited in gradation, how many steps possible, the use
of parameters shows also what we were told from years ago that damage effects are down
to the percents. Control surface effects could change by percents or fractions. What
the parameters don't tell is how nor how any are changed by damage, they only show that
possibles are possible.

Best to let it rest and apply so much concern to life, family and friends.

f.ip2
08-08-2007, 08:54 AM
hey guys

dont get me wrong - I was not complaining.
I was just curious about the flight model and
damage model.

A simplified damage model makes very much sense.


I got the question about the flight model because after I flew the Mosquito. That plane was impossible for me to fly. I felt like on ice.

Using the rudder made the plane move like jiggle jelly. Using elevator gentle made jiggle.

while it is quite a heavy plane.