PDA

View Full Version : Macchi, the coolest deathtraps online. (Tutorial, sort of)



F19_Ob
02-15-2006, 03:51 PM
KNOW YOUR OPPONENT.
Hope This small tutorial may give some of you a good start to fly the Macchi-series online.

Regards. ob http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

.----------------------------------------------


Love the heck out of them, but they can really only win by luck or bounce or teamwork online.

The machinegun equipped macchis are in big trouble unless the pilot is a good marksman because it's hard to hit a twisting enemy and in the normal case it will take dangerously long time to down any fighter and the tracers may draw enemies to the scene.

The earliest Macchi 200 saetta is my favorite but it gets outurned and outgunned by Hurricane mk2b, P40, spit vb and also I-16, I-153, laggs and yaks.
It can't run away either, although a few are about 10 to 20 kph slower. Only the I-153 can't keep up with an undamaged Saetta.

So, Saettas Cant run, turn, dive or climb away with any of them and also are outgunned.
Talk about a plane for the super-experten. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The macchi 202's fare no better and the same misforune follow them with their contemporary enemies.
The latest Macchi 205 Veltro however has 2 cannons wich enables it to kill faster and a bounce may be successful in one pass sometimes.
The veltro has about same speed as 109 G6 (early) and generally in the same class exept for the 30mm cannon available on the 109.
The 109G6 is more stable and doesn't snapstall easily like the Veltro close to stallspeed or when pulling hard in turns.

Unfortunately for the Veltro its most common opponents are better.
La5F-FN outclass it in speed and turn wich means u got 1 pass only.
Also the Spitfire mk9c (1943), Lagg3 and yak's
Have about same speed in level fligh aswell as in dive and climb.
This means u cant turn with these latter either, but u have a small chance to survive by fleeing in a dive to create separation because the enemies catch up slowly.
If one fail to get separation or is hit they ofcourse catch up faster but in best case friendlies may have time to intervene.

None of the Macchis should win 1 vs 1 fights against these above mentioned enemies, so it's a team plane like p47 and p51 and preferably BnZ.
The fw190 is more potent in armament, speed in dive and rollrate, wich is very important for BnZ tactics, but the 205 Veltro can turn a bit better like the 109G6.
------------------------------------

With this said, I have shot down quite many spits, La5FN and Lagg3 and yaks already by zooming in and out of furballs with little turning, but if chased I must rely on mates to help or death is imminent. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------

more added:

A Quick and not too exact test on crimea map at 1000m.

---------------------------------------------
Macchi 205 Veltro and Bf109G6 (1943) get about same figures in climb , dive and level speed.
* Level speed at 1000m: 480 kph (on speedbar)
* 650kph (speedbar) in dive at 30' to groundlevel.
*Zoomclimbs up to 1700m with 170kph at hand.

------------------------------------------------

La5F and La5 FN (1943) Get almost same figures although F accellerates slower.
* Levelspeed at 1000m: 510kph (speedbar)
* 680kph in a 30' dive from 1000m and retains level energy longer than Veltro and G6 after leveling at deck. (Probably because of it's higher topspeed)
* Zoomclimbs back up to 1700m with 190kph at hand.


-----------------------------------------------

Spitfire mk9c and Lagg3 66series (1943) are also about the same although the LaGG is Lazy in acceleration and doesn't turn as well:
* Levelspeed at 1000m: 480kph (speedbar) although the LaGG is slower in acceleration.
* Both have about same dive and zoomclimb as 109G6 and Veltro although the LaGG3 lags behind marginally slower in the climb.

------------------------------------------------

As U see the differences in speed in these stages are marginal and La5F-FN is better than both Veltro and 109G6 and spit turns better and LaGG is close and should atleast outurn the Veltro if not the 109G6.

With more tests I'm sure one can get small deviations from these figures since I was fast doing them.
My online experience so far atleast convinces me that this is what I should have in the back of my head when fighting with the Veltro, or I'm dead meat.

One of the things making it very hard to run and evade with the Veltro is the slow roll wich a spit or LaGG may follow. Another thing is the poor visibility backwards because u sit so close to the seat (compared with other planes), even with mirror. The mirror is tilted so u see above and behind and one can't see straight behind in it unless U roll so one wing points up. (perhaps a mirror miss in programming?)



Well, what I got so far.

Fantastic work on the Macchis guys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

PBNA-Boosher
02-15-2006, 06:40 PM
Gotta love the Italians! They've been relying on teamwork since Roman times. Those who fight together, live together, die together.

JG301_nils
02-15-2006, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Gotta love the Italians! They've been relying on teamwork since Roman times. Those who fight together, live together, die together.
...and those who run away together, survives together http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

HarlockGN
02-15-2006, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by JG301_nils:

...and those who run away together, survives together http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

This kind of comment is unwarranted and offensive. I would suggest a rephrasing.

woofiedog
02-15-2006, 10:33 PM
Very Good run down on the Macchi series... they are turning into one of my favorites along with the Hurricane, Mig and Bi-Planes.
And must agree about the Great Job that went into programing them.

SnailRunner
02-16-2006, 12:38 AM
Mc-202.....doent think its slow or outgunned, have no prob keeping 380-440 in a dogfight...and the guns well its about how you aim, distance and convergence, but with timing one pass kill is far from imposible http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

F19_Ob
02-16-2006, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by SnailRunner:
Mc-202.....doent think its slow or outgunned, have no prob keeping 380-440 in a dogfight...and the guns well its about how you aim, distance and convergence, but with timing one pass kill is far from imposible http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

What contemporary enemy planes online are you not outturned by in that dofight?..... and what contemporary enemy plane online doesn't outgun the 202? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ForkTailedDevil
02-16-2006, 05:45 AM
I am glad they are programmed finally but I must say the learning curve for them is very steep. The stalling in them makes the P39D and P400 look stable. For some reason I thought that the MC202 and MC205 were impressive aircraft when manned properly. I on the other hand seem to burn off my speed quicker than if I had just nailed the ground.

Freycinet
02-16-2006, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by HarlockGN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG301_nils:

...and those who run away together, survives together http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

This kind of comment is unwarranted and offensive. I would suggest a rephrasing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ehh, I think you need to take a chill pill....

Capt_Haddock
02-16-2006, 03:47 PM
That's a nice review, Ob. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I always loved the deathtraps in IL2. Better to burn honourably in one of those than to die of embarrassment after being shot in a uber-late-war-plane http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh3.jpg

Hawgdog
02-16-2006, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by JG301_nils:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Gotta love the Italians! They've been relying on teamwork since Roman times. Those who fight together, live together, die together.
...and those who run away together, survives together http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL

p-11.cAce
02-16-2006, 04:00 PM
I just started flying the little Macchi's and really like the little buggers but I am awful glad that I've got a ton of RL spin experience -they snap away from you guick but if you are quick with your feet you can catch it in 1/2 - 3/4 a turn. It is like the p-39 though in that it takes a bit of throttle manipulation if you let the spin develop past that first turn. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

tigertalon
02-16-2006, 05:25 PM
Hm, rationaly I agree with most of your post Ob, however I feel very different about them. From the first time I took one up in the air online (and got two spitsIX series http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif), I feel very positively about them.

Macchi205III is IMO one of best fighters around here (especially so in 1943). It's armament is formidable, and ammocount is great! (275 rpg for Mg151/20 IIRC and 475 for SAFATs). Plus it has digital ammocounters. Its a fast and fast climbing bird, turn is decent, zoom climb is good. Very good in every aspect, best in none. I do find it as a formidable weapon in a team, a bit less so in lonewulfing, while for dueling against 43 opponents I'd rather take something else.

Hawgdog
02-16-2006, 05:42 PM
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/CWOS/italianodefaiko.jpg

RedDeth
02-16-2006, 06:01 PM
I LOVE the italian birds too. but it is sad to say they dont turn as well as competition and with the insane snap stalls like the old p39s and first ta152s it is a death trap in a turn fight.

b an z is fun but if you zoom climb away from those spits you die instantly. even with slightly better E the macchi 205s get run down if it zoom climbs away from most opponents.

its real only plus is its de wingifying cannons. this 205 can cut wings off planes over half the time. but after you do that you cant out turn nor zoom climb away from any remaining opponents.

its not a good b an z plane nor turner.

the only way to survive is to have plenty of wingmen or try a straight dive to deck and hope to make it back to base before they run you down. because they WILL run you down sooner or later.

but i still love to fly em

Praetorian_Elite
02-16-2006, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by JG301_nils:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Gotta love the Italians! They've been relying on teamwork since Roman times. Those who fight together, live together, die together.
...and those who run away together, survives together http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or maybe the man who runs away will fight again.

HarlockGN
02-16-2006, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Freycinet:
Ehh, I think you need to take a chill pill....

I already took my chamomile for the night, thank you, but that comment sounded very much like an unjust snipe to the many heroes that flown in the Regia Aeronautica, Balkan air Force and ANR during WW2, while outnumbered and oytgunned.
Offensive comments like those should be avoided, at least here.

SnailRunner
02-17-2006, 12:45 AM
***What contemporary enemy planes online are you not outturned by in that dofight?..... and what contemporary enemy plane online doesn't outgun the 202?***


If i think that way i would stay away from 90% of the planes in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Its not all about turn and guns, its about finding that trick that can make a difference, and especialy against the spit, the 202 have a couple of tricks that works wonders http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The guns. If i doubt on the guns, would i fly the plane?? the 202 even with the pee shooters as i have statet many times before, it depends on your aiming, distance and convergence....

One of the main diffrences might be that im not a DF pilot, i doent need to se a exploding plane, i doent go for kill stats etc, i need to make sure that the enemy plane is not able to complete what its send out to do, and it normaly doent reqire a kill to do that...and i doent loose my planes in stupid 5 vs 1 fights...a goos pilot brings hes plane back to http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I know that the Mc-202 would proberbly have it not so easy on HL, but in campaigns where the planes actualy counts (allied and axis) half the flight is to ger back to, thats where im using my online time, im not DF gungHo stat killer, im a modest campaign pilot who thinks that my plane is worth something http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rickustyit
02-17-2006, 01:28 AM
Ahh... the Macchi!
Yes, I love all of them, but especially the Mc.200
It turns very well, it's MUCH more stable than the 202 and the 205 (And I really can't undestand why , since they are very similiar, their wings are the same etc etc...Oleg?) and it's a joy to fly against Hurris and early war planes.
I find it even quite fast, reaching about 430 km/h at sea level, not bad at all in that period.

The Mc.202 is strangely too unstable, have a good turning radius, and a very fast speed in 1941. It has probably the same airspeed of a Spitfire Vb, which is great.

The 205 is very very good, good armament (especially considering the numbers of bullets carried onboard) good manouvrability and excellent climbing characteristics.
Actually the C.202 and C.205 have one of their main points in the rate of climb. They're very good.

The 12,7mm weapons are not bad, there is plenty of ammo, but their ballistic is HORRIBLE. They are the only bullets in the game that start to fall greatly after just about 400 meters. Their flying path is very horrible compared to other 12,7mm guns... I wonder if they really were that bad.
Otherwise, their hitting power seems ok, not very effective against enemy bombers, ok against fighters.

Cheers,
Rick

tjaika1910
02-17-2006, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by HarlockGN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freycinet:
Ehh, I think you need to take a chill pill....

I already took my chamomile for the night, thank you, but that comment sounded very much like an unjust snipe to the many heroes that flown in the Regia Aeronautica, Balkan air Force and ANR during WW2, while outnumbered and oytgunned.
Offensive comments like those should be avoided, at least here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That the italians didn't fight fanaticaly for the lunatic Mussolini, is a proof of common sense for me. Italia has a long and proud history and nothing to prove.

269GA-Veltro
02-17-2006, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by tjaika1910:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HarlockGN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freycinet:
Ehh, I think you need to take a chill pill....

I already took my chamomile for the night, thank you, but that comment sounded very much like an unjust snipe to the many heroes that flown in the Regia Aeronautica, Balkan air Force and ANR during WW2, while outnumbered and oytgunned.
Offensive comments like those should be avoided, at least here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That the italians didn't fight fanaticaly for the lunatic Mussolini, is a proof of common sense for me. Italia has a long and proud history and nothing to prove. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand what you mean NP here, but the italian pilots in the WW2, as Rommel said, did miracles with nothing. For sure they didn't escape....

F19_Ob
02-17-2006, 03:59 AM
A Quick and not too exact test on crimea map at 1000m.

---------------------------------------------
Macchi 205 Veltro and Bf109G6 (1943) get about same figures in climb , dive and level speed.
* Level speed at 1000m: 480 kph (on speedbar)
* 650kph (speedbar) in dive at 30' to groundlevel.
*Zoomclimbs up to 1700m with 170kph at hand.

------------------------------------------------

La5F and La5 FN (1943) Get almost same figures although F accellerates slower.
* Levelspeed at 1000m: 510kph (speedbar)
* 680kph in a 30' dive from 1000m and retains level energy longer than Veltro and G6 after leveling at deck. (Probably because of it's higher topspeed)
* Zoomclimbs back up to 1700m with 190kph at hand.


-----------------------------------------------

Spitfire mk9c and Lagg3 66series (1943) are also about the same although the LaGG is Lazy in acceleration and doesn't turn as well:
* Levelspeed at 1000m: 480kph (speedbar) although the LaGG is slower in acceleration.
* Both have about same dive and zoomclimb as 109G6 and Veltro although the LaGG3 lags behind marginally slower in the climb.

------------------------------------------------

As U see the differences in speed in these stages are marginal and La5F-FN is better than both Veltro and 109G6 and spit turns better and LaGG is close and should atleast outurn the Veltro if not the 109G6.

With more tests I'm sure one can get small deviations from these figures since I was fast doing them.
My online experience so far atleast convinces me that this is what I should have in the back of my head when fighting with the Veltro, or I'm dead meat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

One of the things making it very hard to run and evade with the Veltro is the slow roll wich a spit or LaGG may follow. Another thing is the poor visibility backwards because u sit so close to the seat (compared with other planes), even with mirror. The mirror is tilted so u see above and behind and one can't see straight behind in it unless U roll so one wing points up. (perhaps a mirror miss in programming?)

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Bula
02-17-2006, 12:18 PM
I'm not sure about the Saetta's lack of comparative turning ability. I find that it can out turn just about any allied monoplane as long as you keep the speed up around 220 kph or better. I've had no problem turning inside Hurris while fighting on the horizontal. (Bringing them down with two 12.7mm mgs is another matter, but there good deflection shooting helps.) That said, I think the MC200 gets sluggish in dives where the speed exceeds 540-550 kph. And rolling is not a good tactic to escape any allied a/c that is maintaining roughly the same speed.

It'd be interesting to see the wing loading for the Saetta vis-a-vis the Hurricanes, Spits, and early Yaks and LaGGs.