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LEBillfish
07-10-2008, 09:11 AM
~Salute All~!!!;

78th*Sentai Virtual Flying Regiment Statement of Intent:
The policy of the 78th*Sentai virtual squadron to date regarding "mods" has been absolutely clear. That being....."No member of the 78th*Sentai may use any mod while in uniform. Period." Additionally any use of a mod in a formal organized event such as a war server, battle event, or campaign will result in that member's immediate termination from the regiment without chance of reprieve."

The reason for such a strict rule being quite simple, our firm code of conduct which is the foundation the 78th*Sentai is built upon. Above all other things be it victory, tactics, personal agendas, anything.....The 78th's code of conduct defines who we are as a squadron even down to such minor issues as saluting and keeping ones temper in the worst of situations. Paramount to the code are the concepts of good sportsmanship and fair play, as in the 78th the "end" will never justify the "means". Therefor, based upon our standards fully outlined in our code, many mods be it even something as innocuous as a cleaned reticule exceeded the regiment's rules, as no matter how minor they grant the player an advantage over others not utilizing them.

Therefor.....Henceforth the 78th*Sentai Virtual Flying Regiment from this date forward will no longer petition any formal organized "Non-Mod" event for inclusion, nor will we accept invitations to the same. Our play is based upon our honor, and though we demand of our members to always follow all server and event rules, we will not risk having it questioned due to the following.

By a unanimous vote after months of discussion, the 78th*Sentai has elected to take up the challenge of the "mod community" and give the product of their no doubt difficult labors a fair and reasonable consideration by utilizing their efforts in our play. We as always said appreciated and respect "work done for what one wants". The mods produced within that community nothing short of 3rd party work, and due their accolades being the same.

It is in that light therefor due to the uncheckable and uncontrollable nature of mods, that the 78th*Sentai as a whole officially withdraws from ALL future "formal non-mod" competition as we refuse to even have the slightest shadow of doubt cast upon us as to our honor and sportsmanship. As always, all server rules will always be followed. A 78th*Sentai member flying on a "non-mod" server will insure their software is set to the same. This is not done for others but ourselves, as it is fair and equal competition that we seek through courage, honor & tenacity alone. It is the mark we judge ourselves by, nothing more.

My Own Personal Challenge:
No doubt notorious for my long standing and unchanged position on "the mods" though to date still misunderstood, I have set down a challenge for myself that will be executed with absolute resolve to achieve a set goal. That goal being.....To give "the mods" an absolutely fair and unbiased consideration through utilizing them in my own play no doubt improving on the sim dramatically.

This is actually a very easy thing to do as you can imagine. The existing mods and all the "positive" potential they hold a great thing. They offer us all we ever wanted and Maddox Games simply did not have time for. Those generating the mods earning their due by "working" for what they want when not simply given. Most of all the boundaries are limitless as to what degree the sim can be improved upon. It is within that light that I intend to not only try the mods, yet try to learn how to contribute to that same community as well with product and content just as I have the IL2 community as a whole.....Though this my guess going to be a MUCH steeper learning curve.

As said however my views have not changed. My sole view of contention still standing so I set down a challenge to the modding community to address it in kind if they feel the same resolve to their cause I have just stated to "my own effort to begin immediately".

Challenge to All Aircraft Arcade:
RAF_Magpie's more then generous offer to take the time to explain "the mods" to me in detail I hope I have exceeded with my own personal challenge above instead. It is in that vein however I therefor present my own challenge to the modding community, specifically All Aircraft Arcade.

That being.....We all know that many official mods in and of themselves tip the scales to unbalanced if utilized with those not also having them. In kind, the sim is made more vulnerable then ever due to the open software environment of modding.....Yet all of that can be fixed. So my challenge to the modding community is simple. Devote time and effort to developing a software mod that checks for both the players software not exceeding that allowed by the server, and integrity of the players software "pertinent" to that server or mission, compared to the server's (are they the same).

Meaning.....The server does a check to insure the players mods are not exceeding that of the server.....and.....the players sim software including mods that apply to that server/mission are exactly the same as the hosts. Suggestion.....Think SecuRom yet not where are the spaces, yet opposite and only applicable to that server and mission.

In kind no doubt such a mod being more then welcome by all modder and non-modder alike, you will have just found the key in taking a leadership role in the "entire" IL2 sim community, set yourselves up as the absolute focal point for all modding, and demonstrated unquestionable responsibility to the IL2 community at large.

I'm stepping up to the plate to meet your challenge fully without any restraint......Hope you will do the same.

K2 / Kelly K. / Billfish / Ktu*78th*Sentai

KRISTORF
07-10-2008, 09:14 AM
Ooookkkaaayyyyy,

sooo, should'nt this be on the Squadron forum????

Bearcat99
07-10-2008, 09:27 AM
No... She is in the right place. I understand what she is saying.. and I say good on you 78th. Personally not all the mods were for me, but the maps are good.. and many of the object repaints etc are good.

I also think that the idea of a server side check is also a good thing. Although from what I understand, and I have been pushing for something like this for months now, it is easier said than done.

LEBillfish
07-10-2008, 09:53 AM
Well, they (the modders) are in all actuallity the experts in the software now. No one would know it better except say Maddox Games, and not even MG when it considered linked with mods....So those at AAA are without a doubt the experts as to IL2 software.

They hold the greatest chance of making play secure then any barr none.

K2

TX-Gunslinger
07-10-2008, 10:08 AM
Thanks 78th Sentai and Billfish.

I personally think your team has found a very forward-leaning balance serving honor, sportsmanship - and new community capabilities. I look forward to hearing about you and the 78th's experiences or feedback on the mods as you use them.

Billfish, I have thoroughly enjoyed and learned from many of your observations and commentary on various subjects around here for several years.

I hope this announcement is a portent of more, future comment by you on what you and your teams experience with the mod software is.

Thanks and S~

Gunny

Urufu_Shinjiro
07-10-2008, 10:51 AM
I too applaud your efforts. I hope the AAA community will make the effort to create a checking system although I think it may be more difficult that it sounds. There will be much actual coding to be done that is not necessarily related to mod knowledge. Another hurdle is that most at AAA believe the correct approach is self policing so they may not see the effort required as strictly necessary. I see both sides of that issue and am not myself subscribed to either, I have no problem with things going as they are with self policing, nor would I have a problem with mod checking program. I think the peace making effect of having a mod checker would be worth it, but I am not the one who would have to put forth that effort.

WWSandMan
07-10-2008, 11:30 AM
S!

Well said, Billfish. The Wing Walkers are in a similar situation, though we are not yet ready to publicly endorse the mod community efforts. Some WW members are quietly keeping an eye on the mod community activities, and are generally pleased with the results they have achieved. As with 78th Sentai, WW's are also leery of the unsecure nature of the modding community efforts as they relate to online play.

I personally endorse the idea of creating some sort of security mod to be created, but I hold little hope that such a thing will ever be created. Quite the reverse, I expect the darker side of the modding community (not necessarily related to AAA members) to break the current security system with non-modded servers (if it hasn't already been done, and I believe it has). This is another case where I'd be perfectly content to be proven wrong.

In any case, WW's salute and applaud 78th Sentai efforts and forward leaning outlook on the IL-2 community.

jasonbirder
07-10-2008, 12:07 PM
Doesn't your Squadron have its own Website/Forum/Message distribution system for its internal communications/FAQs etc?

SeaFireLIV
07-10-2008, 12:33 PM
sigh... Is it me or does this all seem to be going a bit over the top? Why not print this in every countrie`s national newspaper?

I also feel that the word `Honour` is being used in the wrong context. I noticed it used before as though to say, `the rest of you have no honour`.

Personally, I find it somewhat insulting. I know my Honour is undiminished.

leitmotiv
07-10-2008, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
sigh... Is it me or does this all seem to be going a bit over the top? Why not print this in every countrie`s national newspaper?

I also feel that the word `Honour` is being used in the wrong context. I noticed it used before as though to say, `the rest of you have no honour`.

Personally, I find it somewhat insulting. I know my Honour is undiminished.


Agree 1000% SeaFiremeister. To borrow from Wilde: Frivolously using the word "honor", i.e., not in matters of transcendent importance, is the first sign of a cad.

Urufu_Shinjiro
07-10-2008, 03:48 PM
I see what you're saying guys but lets not turn this into a "bash billfish" thread, her heart is very much in the right place on this....

LEBillfish
07-10-2008, 04:01 PM
The day you stop looking for a fight/conflict/insult.....Is the very day you'll stop finding them.

K2

LEXX_Luthor
07-10-2008, 04:07 PM
Visualize a Pacific Theater if BILLFISH turns into a MODDER. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/Yippee--fast.gif http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/marchmellow.gif

Bearcat99
07-10-2008, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
I see what you're saying guys but lets not turn this into a "bash billfish" thread, her heart is very much in the right place on this....

Yeah lets not... I mean it too or I'll be editing this thread.

JadehawkII
07-10-2008, 04:29 PM
I agree. Shes a very straight headed person and knows her stuff. We need more Ladies like her! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

slipBall
07-10-2008, 04:51 PM
and another one bites the dust...enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

SeaFireLIV
07-10-2008, 05:17 PM
It`s meant as no insult to Billfish at all. In fact I respect her more than she knows. I just wish she`d calm down a bit. I think we got the message.

And as for what leitmotiv thinks, I actually don`t care.

LEBillfish
07-10-2008, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
To borrow from Wilde: Frivolously using the word "honor", i.e., not in matters of transcendent importance, is the first sign of a cad.

Must I be your Devil, simply so you can have a God?

K2

Choctaw111
07-10-2008, 05:52 PM
I absolutely agree to have some way to play on a mod server and know that I am playing with the exact same mods that others are using, or are on a server that allows certain mods.
I am not sure what Billfish is referring to when she talks about some mods giving an big advantage though. I haven't seen any of those.
I do not want to turn this thread into that however.
I think it is a good thing that she and the 78'th are going to try them out. There are some really good ones that really enhance the sim.
I can only dream of a Pacific Theater if she start modding http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

CUJO_1970
07-10-2008, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
sigh... Is it me or does this all seem to be going a bit over the top?


No, it's not just you...my thoughts exactly.

Tab_Flettner
07-10-2008, 09:32 PM
sigh... Is it me or does this all seem to be going a bit over the top?

+1

LEXX_Luthor
07-11-2008, 12:14 AM
0+ ... that is infinitesimally greater than zero.

Imagine that Passion for the game directed toward modding or making usable mod-packages for, say, Spanish Civil War online squads. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Maybe every computer game has a "hardcore" sub-culture which can exhibit the behavior of a cult. I missed the apparently sad spectacle of Modder Wars in the Sims of Old, the Sims of Reknown, but I've read about them, and I tremble. In this sim, we had long time online players who left the sim and after making the fatal mistake of stating the reason was lack of immersion over time, they got mobbed.

skarden
07-11-2008, 01:20 AM
Bravo lebillfish,I gotta ask though,did the slot have any bearing on this ??
If not you should check that one out.I' m pretty sure that you would have a ball with that map.

WTE_Ibis
07-11-2008, 01:32 AM
I would hate to see someone commit ritual suicide over a game, a game, a game, a game.
Sheesh.
http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

.

OMK_Hand
07-11-2008, 02:00 AM
"Makoto"

cmirko
07-11-2008, 02:11 AM
there is actually a very simple solution for a "fairly good" (not one confirmed instance of braking CRT=2 check) safety net.
Create your own uniform mod_pack and have your players download and install it. If you put mandatory CRT=2 check on the server no one with different class files (FM, DM, weapons) will be able to join that server. So all the people are on the same and level playing field.
Biggest "problem" in this solution is actual agreement which mods are in the mod_pack and which are not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!

SeaFireLIV
07-11-2008, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Ibis:
I would hate to see someone commit ritual suicide over a game, a game, a game, a game.
Sheesh.
http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

.

Yep. Any more hand-wringing and we`ll be hearing something like this has happened.

Ok, joking aside, it`s a little more than a game to many of us (me too), BUT we have to draw the line between concern and just getting silly. Know what`s really important in life. A flight sim isn`t. Even Oleg would say there are more important things than his sim in life. And we shouldn`t need Oleg to tell us that.

LEBillfish
07-11-2008, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Ibis:
I would hate to see someone commit ritual suicide over a game, a game, a game, a game.
Sheesh.
http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

.

Yep. Any more hand-wringing and we`ll be hearing something like this has happened.

Ok, joking aside, it`s a little more than a game to many of us (me too), BUT we have to draw the line between concern and just getting silly. Know what`s really important in life. A flight sim isn`t. Even Oleg would say there are more important things than his sim in life. And we shouldn`t need Oleg to tell us that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Unfortunately it's not always that simple especially online, and more so once in a group or squadron.

It really doesn't matter how casual your group is even down to just a few odd handles that seem to fly together quite a bit.......Guilt by association has made online play difficult for many. Couple with that now a solid bond of being in a squadron, then heap on our "deliberate" attempt to make the actions of the one reflect on the many (our handles deliberately set up as few remember "Ktu" yet all remember "Sentai").

Ok, so you get a handle on your own people....That gets thrown into a whole new league when you jump into formal play with other groups. In fact, I cannot recall a single war (long running game) or even single night battle events where calls of cheat, unfair, broke this rule or that were not cast out.

So what should be givens and seemingly insignificant decisions suddenly take on an entirely new scope especially when there is more then one individual to consider..........and reputation can follow you for a looooooong time online for good or bad oddly enough crossing over from one sim to another, one forum to another....It all not quite so inconsequential and quickly forgotten as you think.

In the end unless someone plays the new name of the week game.....You know those type, they get banned by IP.....It's still about interactions with others, relationships and associations, so often having the same consequence and effect as offline.

In the end a squadron is an organization that will cause it and its members to carry with them the reputation garnered by it a long time even when it's long gone. So it must be treated just as seriously as any real world business or club....Its reputation carried by its members, and its individual members affecting its reputation.

I'll risk seeming over the top to protect both.....It's called responsibility.

K2

SeaFireLIV
07-11-2008, 04:13 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Ibis:
I would hate to see someone commit ritual suicide over a game, a game, a game, a game.
Sheesh.
http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

.

Yep. Any more hand-wringing and we`ll be hearing something like this has happened.

Ok, joking aside, it`s a little more than a game to many of us (me too), BUT we have to draw the line between concern and just getting silly. Know what`s really important in life. A flight sim isn`t. Even Oleg would say there are more important things than his sim in life. And we shouldn`t need Oleg to tell us that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Unfortunately it's not always that simple especially online, and more so once in a group or squadron.

It really doesn't matter how casual your group is even down to just a few odd handles that seem to fly together quite a bit.......Guilt by association has made online play difficult for many. Couple with that now a solid bond of being in a squadron, then heap on our "deliberate" attempt to make the actions of the one reflect on the many (our handles deliberately set up as few remember "Ktu" yet all remember "Sentai").

Ok, so you get a handle on your own people....That gets thrown into a whole new league when you jump into formal play with other groups. In fact, I cannot recall a single war (long running game) or even single night battle events where calls of cheat, unfair, broke this rule or that were not cast out.

So what should be givens and seemingly insignificant decisions suddenly take on an entirely new scope especially when there is more then one individual to consider..........and reputation can follow you for a looooooong time online for good or bad oddly enough crossing over from one sim to another, one forum to another....It all not quite so inconsequential and quickly forgotten as you think.

In the end unless someone plays the new name of the week game.....You know those type, they get banned by IP.....It's still about interactions with others, relationships and associations, so often having the same consequence and effect as offline.

In the end a squadron is an organization that will cause it and its members to carry with them the reputation garnered by it a long time even when it's long gone. So it must be treated just as seriously as any real world business or club....Its reputation carried by its members, and its individual members affecting its reputation.

I'll risk seeming over the top to protect both.....It's called responsibility.

K2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Poppycock! Really, I mean come on.

You`re taking yourself far too seriously. Yes, I had some misgivings myself, including when my Squad decide to go along with Mods. Our squad is big, yet `honourable (since you like using this word) - too much I might add.

I thought about staying with the squad and mods or leaving, then finally stayed. I felt the squad were still `honourable` in that they never used Mods to cheat or where they were not allowed, but only to ENHANCE their game.

There`s no disrespect to oleg from us, but only common sense in the end.

That is responsibility enough. Many squads and pilots know us and we found no need for a 10 metre public message telling the entire cosmos of our ethics and the reasons. Our actions prove more than long texts.

It`s just common sense,which you have gone beyond to the point of just looking ridiculous.

Really, no one actually gives a fig that you`re writing the declaration of independence or the magna carta about your squad, as `honourable` as it no doubt is.

LEBillfish
07-11-2008, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I thought about staying with the squad and mods or leaving, then finally stayed.

Odd.....It never taxed me quite so much...Then again, it is just a game...Who's taking it too seriously now hon as I never questioned whether I'd quit flying with those I like flying with. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif In fact, you seem more worked up by this thread then me...What's up with that?...Issues?

LEBillfish
07-11-2008, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by skarden:
Bravo lebillfish,I gotta ask though,did the slot have any bearing on this ??
If not you should check that one out.I' m pretty sure that you would have a ball with that map.

....and no skarden, the Slot simply another far spaced island map to me (though I'm sure it's very nice just have never looked into it)....New Guinea specifically around Wewak to Hollandia my bag (think Lae to Hollandia and S.W. New Britain).

My going to mods simply based on an internal squadron decision, and it about time to see about getting both modders and non-modders to work together toward the longevity of the sim. Both right in their reasons and logic, both having great points so simply straddling the abyss instead of calling out from one side to the other.......(hope no ones down there, forgot my panties again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

K2

joeap
07-11-2008, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by Tab_Flettner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">sigh... Is it me or does this all seem to be going a bit over the top?

+1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+10

Feathered_IV
07-11-2008, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by slipBall:
and another one bites the dust...enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I hardly know what to say.

Such scorn has been heaped upon myself and all those who supported and created these mods to date. Cheaters and theives. Dishonourable and despicable. Labelled as the worst kind of filth on these forums. Even compared by some to rapists and child molestors. It's a weird feeling to see some of the most staunchly anti-mod personalities soften their stance and move to embrace the unspeakables.

I don't know whether to reach a Bible and quote Joshua, or wait a few months and quote Yeats instead.

I guess for now I'll prefer to put the past aside and say congratulations LEBillfish, on you and your squads decision. I wish you all the best and may your enjoyment of the sim grow, just as the sim will now grow with you.

buzzsaw1939
07-11-2008, 10:29 AM
"Forgot my panties again"... you just can't help it can you K? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

LEBillfish
07-11-2008, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by buzzsaw1939:
"Forgot my panties again"... you just can't help it can you K? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

That's untrue...........................It's more a deliberate thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

K2

Urufu_Shinjiro
07-11-2008, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by buzzsaw1939:
"Forgot my panties again"... you just can't help it can you K? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

That's untrue...........................It's more a deliberate thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

K2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll throw a +1 on that, lol.

Tab_Flettner
07-11-2008, 11:02 AM
You`re taking yourself far too seriously.

+1

Can we just get on with it?

LW_lcarp
07-11-2008, 11:26 AM
The formal position for my squad has been officially announced as Missionary or doggy.

Well first off to make a program that will filter out those that do not have the same mods as the server you would have to do as Oleg had done from day 1.

1.Package a patch with this mod and that mod and so forth. Anyone got room on their hard drives for what 10-15 IL2 installs.

2. One large Download with all the content offered @ AAA or wheat ever site you get you mods from.

3. Keep the rooms open and let the players of that game police the rooms they are in.

LEXX_Luthor
07-11-2008, 05:12 PM
When Bearcat was still a Newbie, I pasted him for ALWAYS flying no-cockpit. Years later, Bearcat discovered the cockpit and ever since he ALWAYS flies full pit. In the StrikeFighters, we have no level bombsight, so our standard procedure is to quickly switch to NO PIT and use an enlarged gunsight reticle vastly lowered in angle, and some use simple 3D models of bombardiers bombsight as well. Today, Bearcat flies Full Cockpit and I use No-Cockpit to level bomb, and I was forced to never again paste another for doing so. We all undergo a forced Behavior Mod, from time to time.


Feather4::
Such scorn has been heaped upon myself and all those who supported and created these mods to date. Cheaters and theives. Dishonourable and despicable. Labelled as the worst kind of filth on these forums. Even compared by some to rapists and child molestors. It's a weird feeling to see some of the most staunchly anti-mod personalities soften their stance and move to embrace the unspeakables.
:
:
I guess for now I'll prefer to put the past aside and say congratulations LEBillfish, on you and your squads decision. I wish you all the best and may your enjoyment of the sim grow, just as the sim will now grow with you.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/SargeSun.gif

Feather (and Seafire)...

It seems largely over now. The previous insulting forum behavior that *we* saw here was to maintain control of the community through basic playground bullying, and succeeded before modding became possible. However, the insulting "gamer" behavior *we* remember will not be remembered by most today and in the future as the sim re-births. I'm a poor forum writer, not in the class of RBJ (http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/RBJ.gif ), so another may say it better...

Willy at AAA::
I see BF as a passionate person, prepared to stand for what she believes in....
:
:
....Passionate people have a tendency to rub people up the wrong way...A passionate person who decides to bat for the other side, will for all they're worth.

So, I welcome Billfish here, as I would on any other forum. [B]I don't really care about <span class="ev_code_yellow">what went down elsewhere</span>. The only stuff I remember reading of Billfish was the good stuff. the historical stuff about the IJAAF, I read all of that and would really like to read more of it. There are not that many people in the English speaking world who have so much knowledge to offer on the subject.

~ All Aircraft Arcade forum, the BillFish thread, by BillFish


Some outside the community are still insulting the community over mods such as cockpit swapping, Fw-190 Bar, 6Dof, etc... so care must be taken to observe any re-emergent controlling cultish gamer behavior.

slipBall
07-11-2008, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
and another one bites the dust...enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I hardly know what to say.

Such scorn has been heaped upon myself and all those who supported and created these mods to date. Cheaters and theives. Dishonourable and despicable. Labelled as the worst kind of filth on these forums. Even compared by some to rapists and child molestors. It's a weird feeling to see some of the most staunchly anti-mod personalities soften their stance and move to embrace the unspeakables.

I don't know whether to reach a Bible and quote Joshua, or wait a few months and quote Yeats instead.

I guess for now I'll prefer to put the past aside and say congratulations LEBillfish, on you and your squads decision. I wish you all the best and may your enjoyment of the sim grow, just as the sim will now grow with you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I was being sarcastic, and was very surprised by her thread...I think if she want's to explore them, that's her choice to make. I still fly the stock sim and enjoy it very much. I believe if the code is not open source then it should be left alone. We all love this sim, and we will follow our own path's to enjoyment. Someday if Oleg give's the thumbs up, well my friend, then I will join you.

Badsight-
07-11-2008, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
You`re taking yourself far too seriously.
not really , & the ranter lable is more eaisly applied to your replys

cheater lables do not dissapeare eaisly in such a small community

& now with modding ability you have awesome sorties/performances under suspicion

Tab_Flettner
07-11-2008, 07:34 PM
I think its more of a "Road to Damascus" thing, and not the one with Bob Hope, Bring Crosby and Dorothy Lamour, either....

Feathered_IV
07-11-2008, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Tab_Flettner:
I think its more of a "Road to Damascus" thing, and not the one with Bob Hope, Bring Crosby and Dorothy Lamour, either....

Oh, Thats a shame http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Xiolablu3
07-11-2008, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by cmirko:
there is actually a very simple solution for a "fairly good" (not one confirmed instance of braking CRT=2 check) safety net.
Create your own uniform mod_pack and have your players download and install it. If you put mandatory CRT=2 check on the server no one with different class files (FM, DM, weapons) will be able to join that server. So all the people are on the same and level playing field.
Biggest "problem" in this solution is actual agreement which mods are in the mod_pack and which are not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!


The simple answer to your troubles is shown here, maybe a thanks is in order?

LEBillfish
07-12-2008, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cmirko:
there is actually a very simple solution for a "fairly good" (not one confirmed instance of braking CRT=2 check) safety net.
Create your own uniform mod_pack and have your players download and install it. If you put mandatory CRT=2 check on the server no one with different class files (FM, DM, weapons) will be able to join that server. So all the people are on the same and level playing field.
Biggest "problem" in this solution is actual agreement which mods are in the mod_pack and which are not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!


The simple answer to your troubles is shown here, maybe a thanks is in order? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That would be great except I've been in crt=2 coops, in fact with very tight security constraints and some mods are booted, some not as said by the player.

Yet IF it worked it's only half of the problem....What if someone is running a legit mod server and in walks Bob Tweak...His planes all tweaked up just a tad, or has figured out how to remove the pilot hitbox, or maybe elevator hit box..........The mod servers at even more risk then non mod....Yet neither secure.

Lastly, what about the ability for non-modder and modder alike to be able to fly on a level playing field per "the known server set up"....As though the server may allow certain mods....I can assure you folks now if say only certain mods are allowed, DON'T remove those that exceed it...They just go ahead and fly thinking no biggie....Yet it is, as that server said no, and some may grant an unbalanced advantage over those not having them.

SO the condition is now set up it's either an all or nothing situation.....and there is no "nothing".

The suggestion by cmirko would be awesome....Yet it sadly doesn't work in the situations I've seen......Lastly the Vista issue.

As always though any effort is always appreciated.......maybe it's something for the "experts" to look into further refining.

K2

Skunk_438RCAF
07-12-2008, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
New Guinea specifically around Wewak to Hollandia my bag (think Lae to Hollandia and S.W. New Britain)

The people that worked on the Slot are looking into building a new bigger and better map of New Guinea, but with the game's and current computer limitations, a map that big is nearly impossible.

LEBillfish
07-12-2008, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
New Guinea specifically around Wewak to Hollandia my bag (think Lae to Hollandia and S.W. New Britain)

The people that worked on the Slot are looking into building a new bigger and better map of New Guinea, but with the game's and current computer limitations, a map that big is nearly impossible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well....Sure if you include in what we have for full rtb's....The point of such a map (which in this case would have to be broke into 2-3)...Being the unique terrain about Wewak where most action took place.....So RTB's by red would have to be considered once you reached map edge (iow, make it that far considered home free).

K2

Note the red about current NG map...Then note it by Lae to Madang grabbing part of New Britain....So it and then one from the top of that to Wewak.......So to maps for Lae to Wewak.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/pfv78thsentai/Maps/PNG-Maps/New-Guinea-Map4.jpg

carts
07-12-2008, 05:02 PM
Ye Gods,the squad i play with(and please note the "Play with")use Mod switcher,no probs

Skunk_438RCAF
07-13-2008, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
New Guinea specifically around Wewak to Hollandia my bag (think Lae to Hollandia and S.W. New Britain)

The people that worked on the Slot are looking into building a new bigger and better map of New Guinea, but with the game's and current computer limitations, a map that big is nearly impossible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well....Sure if you include in what we have for full rtb's....The point of such a map (which in this case would have to be broke into 2-3)...Being the unique terrain about Wewak where most action took place.....So RTB's by red would have to be considered once you reached map edge (iow, make it that far considered home free).

K2

Note the red about current NG map...Then note it by Lae to Madang grabbing part of New Britain....So it and then one from the top of that to Wewak.......So to maps for Lae to Wewak.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/pfv78thsentai/Maps/PNG-Maps/New-Guinea-Map4.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Currently, the Slot maps are about the size of the green square. This image shows our current mindset as to the map we wish to make next:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f239/Skunk24/NG3resize.jpg

Maybe you should give some input in the "Choose the Slot team's next project" thread over at AAA.

cmirko
07-14-2008, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
That would be great except I've been in crt=2 coops, in fact with very tight security constraints and some mods are booted, some not as said by the player.


that is the beauty of having an "uniform mod_pack"



Yet IF it worked it's only half of the problem....What if someone is running a legit mod server and in walks Bob Tweak...His planes all tweaked up just a tad, or has figured out how to remove the pilot hitbox, or maybe elevator hit box..........The mod servers at even more risk then non mod....Yet neither secure.


I agree http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - but why would you want to open your server to all interested "internet" parties ? just as in "serious" IT - server should be used for specific purposes only, and it should be "secured".
The time has come when anyone can have a very good il2 server (be it coop or df) for really small amounts of money, let people who want to fly "open servers" which are "mod tweak open" be just that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - you and and all other pilots (as in my squad, and a couple of others friendly squads) who are more security orientated have made our own mod_pack which uses the above protection http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - and it works very nice.....



Lastly, what about the ability for non-modder and modder alike to be able to fly on a level playing field per "the known server set up"....As though the server may allow certain mods....I can assure you folks now if say only certain mods are allowed, DON'T remove those that exceed it...They just go ahead and fly thinking no biggie....Yet it is, as that server said no, and some may grant an unbalanced advantage over those not having them.


can not be done with crt=2 - but thats not even the point - it can't be done in any other internet game - if there are mods involved on the server, admin of that server should write which are those mods in the description of his game.




SO the condition is now set up it's either an all or nothing situation.....and there is no "nothing".

The suggestion by cmirko would be awesome....Yet it sadly doesn't work in the situations I've seen......Lastly the Vista issue.

As always though any effort is always appreciated.......maybe it's something for the "experts" to look into further refining.
K2

we have had players with 64bit vista ultimate join CRT=2 protected server with same mod_pack installed. Only problem i know of is that win2k and winxp client/server combinations are not supported. since win2k is really and old OS right now i don't feel that CRT=2 is outdated as a protection http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!

ElAurens
07-14-2008, 05:37 AM
CRT=2 does not work, and has never worked.

Unless your goal is operating system conformity.

It offers only a false sense of security, little else.

FatCat_99
07-14-2008, 05:58 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
CRT=2 does not work, and has never worked.

Unless your goal is operating system conformity.

It offers only a false sense of security, little else.

Most of the game is written in Java,due to that game was never secure, it's insecure now just as it was when it was first released.

If you could play it before than there is no any reason why you couldn't play it now.

FC

LEBillfish
07-14-2008, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
Maybe you should give some input in the "Choose the Slot team's next project" thread over at AAA.

Well might be doing that....Yet looking at your map above sadly it sets up a condition that loses a lot of action. In fact much of what was going on......Rabaul everyone knows of, yet in truth was a very small part of the whole effort. Worse still, to really do it justice you need to both have a good bit of the slot and NewGuinea down to Port Moresby it very quickly a massive map and all just for Rabaul.

In that case it might be worth while to make a "New Britain" map, and also a New Guinea to Wewak....On the NB map make Rabaul the center of it.

Unfortunately it will always boil down to one or the other group not being able to return to base fully....Yet since most action was 5th Airforce attacks not Japanese....That means you want where they were attacking....

This IMO a good selection for 43-44 (Hollandia too far)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/NGmapideal.jpg

triad773
07-14-2008, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by FatCat_99:
Most of the game is written in Java,due to that game was never secure, it's insecure now just as it was when it was first released.

If you could play it before than there is no any reason why you couldn't play it now.

FC

Not being a developer myself, your comment makes me curious - are not other games written in C++ or Assembler type languages that have the potential of being more secure(able)?

I didn't know IL-2 was written in Java.

JG52Uther
07-14-2008, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:


I hardly know what to say.

Such scorn has been heaped upon myself and all those who supported and created these mods to date. Cheaters and theives. Dishonourable and despicable. Labelled as the worst kind of filth on these forums. Even compared by some to rapists and child molestors. It's a weird feeling to see some of the most staunchly anti-mod personalities soften their stance and move to embrace the unspeakables.

I don't know whether to reach a Bible and quote Joshua, or wait a few months and quote Yeats instead.

.
+1

leitmotiv
07-14-2008, 01:33 PM
It is an attempt to give gravity to a childish squabble over a toy.

na85
07-15-2008, 10:23 AM
Any developer worth his or her salt would write performance-critical applications in C or C++. Java requires a virtual machine to run, and it higher-level than C++ which makes it slightly slower.

Bearcat99
07-15-2008, 08:34 PM
Look folks.. the bottom line in all this is all the worries and fears about what if cheats is moot... You can sit and wait for it to happen, or you can just enjoy what you have and do your part to foster an atmosphere where honor and teamwork is the rule of thumb rather than the exception. One of the reasons why we even decided to change the policy here was that it was just wrong to villanize members of this community that had been here from day one, and who did nothing to earn the questions to their integrity and morals that so many were wrongly subjected to.

We may get a "mod checker" to "insure the integrity " of online play.. we may not.... but I say the absolute best thing that we as a community can do now is to just STFU about all this speculative drama and enjoy the d@mn sim...

Whether or not this sim goes the way of all the other modded sims before it is largely up to us and how well we foster an atmosphere of uniqueness reflecting the same high standards that we have grown accustomed to set by Oleg Maddox and 1C with the sim itslef. I don't think that there has ever been a larger, more vocal, more overall knowledgeable, more downright almost scarily fanatical group of hard core flight sim junkies than the guys & dolls who frequent these boards.. and while this sim is the intellectual property of Oleg Maddox & 1c, we all have earned the right to BE an active part of how this sim goes into it's goodnight.

How we handle that, the atmosphere that we foster, what we tolerate, online and off, as a community, how we treat one another, how much respect the modders and the mod users show the sim and the original standards set by Oleg Maddox & 1C (regardless to all the "The sim was never meant to be modded arguments, guess what... the sim is now modded so we all MUST start from there and move out.. right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif) how true to the again, unprecedented standards set by Oleg & 1C we as a community we remain, will have a lot to do with the if, when and what to do as far as protection from the negative side of modding goes.

While it is true you cannot change human nature, I sincerely believe that this sim and this community, based on the quality of the sim and the work that it takes to handle ones self well in it , and the many people that I have met and come to respect over the past 6 years, will not go the way of so many other sims before it.

Call me Naive... but we will surely see, one way or another....

It is up to us.

Rant over....

LEXX_Luthor
07-15-2008, 09:45 PM
Bear::
Look folks.. the bottom line in all this is all the worries and fears about what if cheats is moot...
And fears of cheating always was moot, as many played in private servers where cheating is not an option, and the people who tow [er...the group that tows] the line to financially support Oleg Maddox play offline. I'd even sloppily *guess* that its possible that the majority of anonymous public server players always wanted some modding ability, but I don't have the numbers to rely on that guess.

slipBall
07-16-2008, 12:32 AM
We may get a "mod checker" to "insure the integrity " of online play.. we may not.... but I say the absolute best thing that we as a community can do now is to just STFU about all this speculative drama and enjoy the d@mn sim...


Yep, the best option

FatCat_99
07-16-2008, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by na85:
Any developer worth his or her salt would write performance-critical applications in C or C++. Java requires a virtual machine to run, and it higher-level than C++ which makes it slightly slower.

Il2 is combination of some sort of C and Java but most of the code is Java. All of the mods which include coding are done in Java and if I'm not mistaken SOW BOB will be the same.

I'm not expert but when game is hacked I searched the net to see what can be done in terms of protection and all I found is that Java and security don't belong in same sentence.

For Java expert question "How can I make my Java code safe from reading by others?" is as funny as it is "Why German gunsight is not in center?" for Il2 veterans.

FC

LEBillfish
07-16-2008, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by FatCat_99:
"Why German gunsight is not in center?"

Wondered that myself for quite a while....Do you think they'll fix it and that stupid blackscreen for some Japanese gunsights?

K2

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Bearcat99
07-16-2008, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FatCat_99:
"Why German gunsight is not in center?"

Wondered that myself for quite a while....Do you think they'll fix it and that stupid blackscreen for some Japanese gunsights?

K2

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I wondered about that too.. was that a lens cap?

SeaFireLIV
07-17-2008, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FatCat_99:
"Why German gunsight is not in center?"

Wondered that myself for quite a while....Do you think they'll fix it and that stupid blackscreen for some Japanese gunsights?

K2

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I wondered about that too.. was that a lens cap? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, and I hope no one mods it out because they never realised that.

LEBillfish
07-17-2008, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FatCat_99:
"Why German gunsight is not in center?"

Wondered that myself for quite a while....Do you think they'll fix it and that stupid blackscreen for some Japanese gunsights? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

= joke