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Chuck_Older
01-04-2005, 02:41 PM
I have just learned a most amazing thing.

There is a famous photo of the 3rd Squadron, AVG, in color, during flight.

Charles Older's #68 is in the immediate foreground, and four other AVG Hawks are stacked up echelon right, over the mountains

It is copyrighted by R.T. Smith

Well, it just so happens I had the breifest contact with R.T. Smith's son, Brad, who kindly confirmed for me my suspicions:

R.T. Smith took this photo while flying an AVG Hawk 81 in close formation on May 28th, 1942. I can hardly believe it. Smith must have been a hell of a photographer in addition to being a hell of a pilot. He had to be looking over his right shoulder to focus the shot! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Chuck_Older
01-04-2005, 02:41 PM
I have just learned a most amazing thing.

There is a famous photo of the 3rd Squadron, AVG, in color, during flight.

Charles Older's #68 is in the immediate foreground, and four other AVG Hawks are stacked up echelon right, over the mountains

It is copyrighted by R.T. Smith

Well, it just so happens I had the breifest contact with R.T. Smith's son, Brad, who kindly confirmed for me my suspicions:

R.T. Smith took this photo while flying an AVG Hawk 81 in close formation on May 28th, 1942. I can hardly believe it. Smith must have been a hell of a photographer in addition to being a hell of a pilot. He had to be looking over his right shoulder to focus the shot! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

LeadSpitter_
01-04-2005, 02:46 PM
not this one right?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/acespace/curt-h81.jpg

Chuck_Older
01-04-2005, 03:02 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Beleive it or not, that's what Brad Smith tells me. His Dad took that shot in flight, in a Hawk 81, most likely #47. Can you say "trim for hands-off flight" and mean it like R.T. Smith could?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Kupper
01-04-2005, 03:44 PM
Chuck...I'm sure you're correct about R.T. having taken that pic...I heard that story some time ago as well. What an amazing photo! I found a nice, hi-res wallpaper of that and have it on my desktop right now. Sorry, can't remember the sight, but you might be able to find it...

horseback
01-04-2005, 04:11 PM
It is particularly impressive when you consider that the P-40 series had a reputation for needing to be re-trimmed for changes in speed as little as 5 mph. R.T. had to have been pretty popular with his fellow pilots to get them to go to that much trouble...

cheers

horseback

-HH- Beebop
01-04-2005, 06:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kupper:
Chuck...I'm sure you're correct about R.T. having taken that pic...I heard that story some time ago as well. What an amazing photo! I found a nice, hi-res wallpaper of that and have it on my desktop right now. Sorry, can't remember the sight, but you might be able to find it... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Found it:

http://www.p40warhawk.com/Wallpaper/Wallpaper.htm

bird_brain
01-04-2005, 06:53 PM
This link might work a little better HH- Beebop

http://www.p40warhawk.com/Wallpaper/TomCleaver/tigers%201024.jpg

Save picture as..... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
01-04-2005, 09:35 PM
That's been my wallpaper for about six months now. Great story. I thought that maybe a lucky bomber pilot took the pic. I can't believe another fighter took the picture. P.S. Mine doesn't have the text on the bottom left so there must be a clean one floating around somewhere.

wayno7777
01-04-2005, 09:54 PM
I think Historic Aviation was selling signed reprints of this photo...http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Aircraft/ImageAVG.jpg Yes they are. http://www.historicaviation.com/historicaviation/product_info.po?ID=7161
Not only that he must have snapped a few cause all three shots here seem to be separate shots!

ElAurens
01-04-2005, 09:59 PM
In my opinion there is no other photo that has ever been taken that more accurately defines the words "fighter plane".

Be very sure.

cpirrmann
01-05-2005, 04:13 AM
Ding Hao!

Bearcat99
01-05-2005, 08:06 AM
That is great!!!! Nice P-40 site too!!!!

ednew
01-05-2005, 08:25 AM
Chuck go here and look at the bottom picture
http://www.p40warhawk.com/Groups/AVG/Rato/AVG/AVG.htm
Its a pic of RT and the Hells Angles standing in front of the same P40 that is in the pic you posted
I'd of posted it but I can't remember how & I'm pressed for time.

Chuck_Older
01-05-2005, 02:03 PM
Thanks, ed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

More interesting info on this photograph from R.T. Smith's son, Brad, who is very graciously sharing some memories. Sometimes it's amazing who you can get to 'meet' online-

Brad Smith:"Would you believe they were also on a combat mission? In a letter to Terry Clements, author of the excellent American Volunteer Group Colours and Markings dad wrote that he seldom took his camera on combat missions because "there was no place to stow it in the cramped space of a cockpit, which meant having to carry it on my lap secured only by a leather strap around my neck. Obviously the last thing a fighter pilot needs while frantically maneuvering in a combat situation is a camera flying around in the cockpit.... It was a beautiful spring day, with a layer of strato-cumulus just above the mountain tops at about ten thousand feet off to our right. We were headed northeast near the Salween River which marked the China-Burma border, and although the air was relatively smooth I soon learned that taking a picture of this type was no easy task. It required trying to fly my plane on a steady course by holding the control stick between my knees, twisting back to my right while holding the camera with both hands, and waiting impatiently for the guys to stop the inevitable 'yo-yo'ing and get into proper echelon formation. There was the added requirement, most important of all, of scanning the surrounding sky every few seconds to make sure no Jap fighters were about to ambush us. The resulting exposure, as I recall, was made about f8 at a 200th of a second." "

On a combat mission http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif I'm not sure if Older is really flying #68 in that picture, sometimes an assigned pilot 'shared' an aircraft or otherwise flew another pilot's plane, but I can almost read that pilot's mind, from that moment frozen in time, almost 63 years ago~

"What...the f*...are you doing?!"

Held the stick with his knees! Hokey smokes, Bullwinkle