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Pig_Mac
02-06-2006, 07:43 AM
Reading a little about the macci, it seems it did pretty good against most early-mid planes it was pitted against, and it looks wonderful!
I sure hope we can run an Italian campaign with it (and the other new Italian planes)

But I'm almost a bit worried about it's guns. 2x 12.7 mm guns only on the first models, how do you kill anything with that? I've only gotten lucky a few times in a Fiat g50 and most of the times it was pilot kills during insanely lucky deflection shots.

soo.. questions
#1 What do you aim at with 2x12.7 guns

#2 The 1942 macci we have had in game as AI, where does it place itself in the macci series?

#3 Was it really good against early spits and hurries?

#4 what tactics did they use? (to be successful)

#5 Anyone else think this is one of the sexiest planes of the WWII? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GerritJ9
02-06-2006, 09:52 AM
The early production versions of the Folgore had two 12.7mm guns in the fuselage with 400 r.p.g., but later versions (Serie IX-XI for example) also had a 7.7mm gun in each wing with 500 r.p.g. One batch (Serie unknown to me) had a 20mm Mauser MG151 under each wing with 200 r.p.g.
The Ki.43 managed quite well (unfortunately) against the early Allied fighters with at best the same armament as the early Folgore i.e. two 12.7mm guns, as did the Ki.27 with two 7.7mm guns. So it's not just a matter of a heavy armament- you have to hit in the right spot.
What to aim at- try engine, cockpit.
Good against Hurris and Spits? Also against P-40s.
Version in game? Don't know about current version, but new patch will include Serie III, Serie VII and Serie XII.
Tactics used? No idea- perhaps some of our Italian forum members can enlighten us.
Sexy? Naaaah- NOTHING beats the Buffalo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

georgeo76
02-06-2006, 10:01 AM
2x HMG is an effective weapon vs fighter. You just have to fight differently.

1. Don't waste your ammo on long-range shots. If you can get close enough so that 50% or greater of your rounds are hitting the target in the same general area of his aircraft, a 3 second burst will kill every time. If 70% or greater, 1 second will do.

2. Aim for vulnerable areas. A damaged engine or wing tip can end the fight real quick.

3. Hammer away @ the same area. Treat it like a boxer, 50 jabs to the body is worth any haymaker to the jaw.

4. Be satisfied with a crippled enemy. Just because he didn't explode, doesn't mean you didn't win.

Pig_Mac
02-06-2006, 10:10 AM
Thanks for the answers so far. I just though up another one btw

#6 What convergance do you set 12.7's at?
Since they are so close to each other I guess it's only a matter of how 'high' you want it to go. (getting more visibility during high deflection)

269GA-Veltro
02-06-2006, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by Xallo_72:
Thanks for the answers so far. I just though up another one btw

#6 What convergance do you set 12.7's at?
Since they are so close to each other I guess it's only a matter of how 'high' you want it to go. (getting more visibility during high deflection)

Mmm....200 meters, but we have to wait for the 4.03m. BTW..i say 200 mt.

telsono
02-06-2006, 03:02 PM
The Macchi series of fighters have always been one of my favorites. I'll just add a few comments.

The so-called "cannon armed batch" of the C. 202 was a myth, there was a single test aircraft from either series IX or XII. This aircraft had the wing pods used on the Bf 109's tested. It was found that the weight of the cannon adversely effected the performance of the aircraft and was not tested further. Green's book on famous fighter aircraft promotes this myth.

Italian pilots didn't favor the wing mounted rifle caliber 7.7mm machine guns. Many pilots had them removed from their aircraft as they said that the weight of the guns effected performance.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a168/telsono/Airplanes/mc_202_folgore.jpg

VW-IceFire
02-06-2006, 03:06 PM
I think the MC.202's Breda 12.7mm machine guns use small explosive rounds that do cause a little more damage to the target aircraft to make up for the rounds overall lack of hitting power (in such small numbers).

Still...you can flame anything with a good burst from a pair of any machine gun. Aim for the engine...particularly on the Spitfire, P-40, Hurricane, and any of its other opponents.

Waldo.Pepper
02-06-2006, 03:11 PM
Get it your Ki-43 and start practicing.

icrash
02-06-2006, 03:23 PM
I think I hve my convergence set @ 200 or 250 meters for mg's and 300 for cannons. I usually shoot for engine/pilot/fuel tank because this gives the best results. Is this the plane in question?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/icrash/mc202a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/icrash/a.jpg

Pig_Mac
02-06-2006, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Get it your Ki-43 and start practicing.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The Ki-43 at least have a sniperscope.

I've never been a big fan of the japanese planes. The zero is pretty fun and looks nice, but it ain't my thing.

I've been playing around with the G50 a lot lately. I still have problems bringing down more then one early hurri offline without running out of ammo. I comfort myself that the AI seems to stay in fight longer then a sane human opponent would.

The G50 seems to improve my overall flying a bit too, since you can't pull too much negative G's in it, and therefore have to think a little more before having something in sight.

Still the early Macchi will be the plane I spend most of my time in, when I'm not in the Ju 88.

Kuna15
02-06-2006, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by georgeo76:
2x HMG is an effective weapon vs fighter. You just have to fight differently.

1. Don't waste your ammo on long-range shots. If you can get close enough so that 50% or greater of your rounds are hitting the target in the same general area of his aircraft, a 3 second burst will kill every time. If 70% or greater, 1 second will do.

2. Aim for vulnerable areas. A damaged engine or wing tip can end the fight real quick.

3. Hammer away @ the same area. Treat it like a boxer, 50 jabs to the body is worth any haymaker to the jaw.

4. Be satisfied with a crippled enemy. Just because he didn't explode, doesn't mean you didn't win.

+1

VW-IceFire
02-06-2006, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Xallo_72:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Get it your Ki-43 and start practicing.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The Ki-43 at least have a sniperscope.

I've never been a big fan of the japanese planes. The zero is pretty fun and looks nice, but it ain't my thing.

I've been playing around with the G50 a lot lately. I still have problems bringing down more then one early hurri offline without running out of ammo. I comfort myself that the AI seems to stay in fight longer then a sane human opponent would.

The G50 seems to improve my overall flying a bit too, since you can't pull too much negative G's in it, and therefore have to think a little more before having something in sight.

Still the early Macchi will be the plane I spend most of my time in, when I'm not in the Ju 88. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
In the online environment I've been able to bring down a maximum of 3 Allied fighters including a combination of Tomahawk Mark II and Hurricane Mark II. I don't think I've done any better. With the Hurricane you aim for the engine compartment, the pilot, or the wing root. I always do this from an angle instead of dead six. With the Tomahawk is nearly the same except I prefer to shoot for the wingroots on these guys. With the Hurricane, avoid shooting into the tail section. You can sometimes snap a control cable but the area back there isn't too affected by bullets (its all fabric coated and not much inside) so don't waste your ammo there.

Speeds in these aircraft are much slower so you get "time" to pick and aim at the target. With the late war fighters you need the firepower because its usually a blur on the screen and its gone past. Hit em hard or don't even bother.

Waldo.Pepper
02-06-2006, 09:08 PM
In my opinion you should be thinking about killing a plane 'the shark' way not being only satisfied when they are blown to bits before your eyes.

In the real world sharks wil take a little bite, and be satified, knowing that you are going to die.

So just 'wound' the enemy plane, then be patient and circle around and around the wounded bird. Often enough if you press the situation after wounding the enemy plane the pilot still thinks that your coming in for the coup de grace, and will panic and hasten his demise.

If he's on fire he's dead. SO STOP SHOOTING!

If he's smoking he'll likely be dead, but it will take a little longer. So STOP SHOOTING AND WATCH FOR A WHILE!

Be more patient. You'll save your ammo, and get more kills. (I believe).

Stigler_9_JG52
02-06-2006, 09:33 PM
Good advice above. No, you won't get any one ping kills with these planes, but they can hurt a plane, provided you get in tight and let a guy have it. Another thing to note is that Italian HMGs often packed explosive bullets, which do a little bit more damage than just ball ammo.

These planes should have few problems with Hurricanes, but they did in real life. A Hurri is more stable at low speeds, so although Macchis can turn well, they might find in some situations, the Hurri will turn better...and be less likely to fall out of a low speed turn.

Against Spits, I'd think most early/mid Italian planes a bit overmatched.

That being said, Spits just appeared over at "that other flight sim", and I'm running 3-1 vs. Spits in the early going. The one I lost, I nearly nursed home, smoking and limping to Bardia...and the darned engine cut out just off the coast, as I could see the airstrip just a few km away!!! Darn it! Had to ditch the sucker and take to the dinghy!

Rickustyit
02-07-2006, 01:01 AM
I actually noticed that the 2 x 12,7mm Breda SAFAT heavy machine guns are quite effective in the game.
I think Oleg modeled them right, as I can see some explosive shells while hitting an enemy aircraft, just like in real life; the only thing is that I think that in real life these 2 HMG were not that fast-firing...
They were synchronized and at low RPM I don't think they were that good.

However, I find them very powerful and, like all cowl mounted guns, very effective in precise long range aiming.

http://www.lietadla.com/lietadla/talianske/sm-84/breda-safat.jpg

cawimmer430
02-07-2006, 08:12 AM
The Ki-43's fun to fly, but the guns are weak as hell. Also, the plane carries so little ammunition onboard. I always play it using "unlimited ammo". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

telsono
02-07-2006, 01:18 PM
I just re-read some information on the C.202 Folgore versus Allied planes this morning. They were supposed to be superior to the P-40's (probably E's through L's), at least equal to the Hurricane (MK II), but challenged by the Spitfires (primarily Mk V's esp. Trop. version). The Spitfire Mark IX would have been more than a match to the Folgore.
The airframe was very good considering that the Italian licensed version of the DB 601 made by Alfa Romeo produced less HP than the Daimler Benz original. Even with this less powerful engine the airframe had better performance than the Bf 109 E's which would have been the comparable powerplant.