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View Full Version : if the stealth bomber gives the radar signal of a bird why not shooting 500 kphbirds



raaaid
12-16-2004, 11:34 AM
i remember an airforce officer in a tv documental explaining that the stealth bomber actually is not totally invisible it only gives the radar signal of a small bird now i wonder how many birds fly at match speeds

Billy_BigBoy
12-16-2004, 12:10 PM
Eagle
Blackbird
Hawk
Osprey not...

berg417448
12-16-2004, 02:39 PM
Here is one possible answer:

€œBecause radar can still detect very small radar signatures, stealth aircraft are also operated in a careful manner and assisted by other aircraft. For instance, they try to avoid certain radars and operate in conjunction with aircraft designed to jam enemy radar. They try to hide in the electromagnetic "noise" of the battlefield.€

€œWhile stealth was a major effort of aircraft designers of the 1980s and 1990s, the widespread availability of powerful computers and knowledge of stealth techniques has meant that it is no longer difficult to design an aircraft with some stealth characteristics, although achieving the degree of stealth incorporated into the F-117 or the B-2 is still difficult. Today, the research emphasis has shifted to developing various systems that can be used with a stealth aircraft, such as radar and weapons that will not be easily detected. Naturally, there is also an effort among missile and radar designers to develop systems that can detect stealth aircraft. Low-frequency radar will spot virtually any stealthy aircraft but is bad at determining its exact location. Communications networks enabling a defensive system to combine information and locate a target also connect these and other radars. Other systems attempt to pick up radio and television signals that may bounce off a stealthy airplane.€

_VR_ScorpionWorm
12-16-2004, 02:42 PM
You gotta keep in mind military radar screens arent really looking for birds. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Of course, advanced radar screens differ from what they looked liked around the era the Stealth Bomber was made public. It is possible to track a stealth bomber but very difficult, the radar may not pick up its signal due to the 'special' paint applied, RAM I think it was called, Radar Absorbing Material. RAM is designed to limit the reflective signal given off, it bounces it away from the aircraft(and absorbs) so the chance of signal reaching the transmitter are greatly reduced. Hence they 'may' only see a quick blip, then again it will not really show depending on the type of radar screen being used. It may be there but the screen cant draw it.(past radar screens keep in mind)

Korbelz
12-16-2004, 03:21 PM
with the right tactics almost any aircraft will not be able to be seen by radar.

HellToupee
12-16-2004, 06:03 PM
just dont go to war with any countries that have modern weapons :P

Philipscdrw
12-16-2004, 06:10 PM
Just get all the other countries with modern weapons on your side, and stop exporting weapons to countries that are likely to be ruled by madmen, i.e. France... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Just kidding, France makes its own weapons anyway...

BSR_Dude
12-16-2004, 06:16 PM
IIRC France had not only the best fighter plane in WWII but the highest scoring ace.

berg417448
12-16-2004, 06:24 PM
didn't you mean WWI allied ace?

Rene Paul Fonck 75 kills WWI France

Waldo.Pepper
12-16-2004, 09:29 PM
Ask the Serbs how they shot down a Stealth plane.

VW-IceFire
12-16-2004, 09:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Ask the Serbs how they shot down a Stealth plane. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Millions of rounds of triple-A. Low tech solutions to high tech problems.

BlitzPig_DDT
12-16-2004, 10:15 PM
Fonk may have had more kills, but Guynemer (sp?) probably did more for the allies through his close work with SPAD.

The deserving people never get the credit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Voss was, IMPO, a better pilot than Richtofen (not by much) but died too soon. Immelman was the man and basically helped Boelke show the world how it's done.

Today, Immelman has a ACM move named after him but has almost passed into obscurity, and Boelke's legacy lives on only in the Dicta Boelke, which, while vital and taught to every fighter pilot, still doesn't carry the fame of MvR.

x__CRASH__x
12-16-2004, 10:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSR_Dude:
IIRC France had not only the best fighter plane in WWII but the highest scoring ace. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think you are remembering correctly at all. Eric Hartmann was the highest scoring ace with 352 confirmed kills.

Waldo.Pepper
12-17-2004, 01:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Ask the Serbs how they shot down a Stealth plane. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Millions of rounds of triple-A. Low tech solutions to high tech problems. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Not so fast, you would think that it was millions of rounds of triple A, then a magic BB - but please read the following

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/431408.stm

Why would the Serbs out such a 'source' if not to protect something else.

now read

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a37000f886346.htm


Hmmm seems 'twas possibly a missile.

Now read -

http://www.combat-online.com/serb.htm


And now finally understand that we are likely never to know the truth for several years - maybe decades.

Still interesting nontheless.

Fritzofn
12-17-2004, 01:56 AM
uhm, to get that 117, the serbs had the first radar designed by russia to detect stealth planes, my guess that it's not like conventional radars, that scan the horizon, but rather a set of systems. that in conjunction, scan straight up, and when an anomaliny. like a 117 is detected, the radar controlled guns is fired.


setback: expensive system, AND need to be allmost at the direct path of a attackers path, since plane need to fly almost direct above to be detected

ImpStarDuece
12-17-2004, 03:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Ask the Serbs how they shot down a Stealth plane. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Millions of rounds of triple-A. Low tech solutions to high tech problems. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually the F-117 that got shot down by the Serbs was a result of sheer stupidity.

Apparently it was detected and tracked by both low frequency radar and passive IR sensors (i actually dont believe the IR part myself) over several days.

Even a stealth is not "invisible" to radar. Steath technology merely cuts down on the effective range that an aircraft can be tracked at. Instead of being detected at 50 km its only detected at 10 km, which leaves a LOT of holes in an air defence network.

Each time the Serbs got a fix they would move more radar and search equipment into the area. Apparently the F-117 was using the same IP and route EVERY SINGLE TIME it entered Serbian airspace, probably a pilot or mission planner getting lazy because they believed they were untouchable.

With its point of entry and approximate track confirmed and static the Serbs saturated an area with SAM and AA fire the next time the stealth was tracked and they brought it down pretty easily. A good example of what happens to you when you become predictable in combat: something (usually you) becomes a smoking hole somewhere.

BBB_Hyperion
12-17-2004, 03:13 AM
Stealth Aircraft are useless since some years but seems no one noticed. The word is passive Radar combined with a new tech .)

More i will not tell .)

ImpStarDuece
12-17-2004, 03:20 AM
Oh, and the British have tracked the F-117 and B-2 with frequency and regularity over long distance for most of the last ten years (and probably WELL before that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ). Using back-scatter radar, low frequency, fast hopping sets. In fact I have heard claims that the British STILL lead the way in radar technology and detection, particularly passive and ground based search, if not in actual implementation of that tech.

More recently the USAF had to redo the B-2's 'stealth' paint because the Brits were tracking it using microwave radar as well as the back scatter coming off mobile phone towers and cell phones. Seems that 'Dubbya' will be in trouble if he goes to war with anywhere that has teenagers with a high disposable income!

Edited becaus i get pedantic about spelling.

ploughman
12-17-2004, 05:51 AM
The Type-42 destroyer has several radars on board of which allegedly one can track B-2s. The same type of destroyer was able to track F-117s during the first Gulf War.

Now here's one for the rumour mill. I had heard that it was the Chinese, not the Russkis that provided the data that allowed the Serbs to take down the Nighthawk, using a system that detected the atmospheric disturbances made by a passing stealth aircraft and deduced the presence of the aircraft. It was whispered in dark corners that the subsequent accidental bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade was anything but.

Spooky, huh?

Chuck_Older
12-17-2004, 07:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSR_Dude:
IIRC France had not only the best fighter plane in WWII but the highest scoring ace. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunatley, you do not remember correctly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tully__
12-17-2004, 07:37 AM
Getting a radar return from a bird and making a targetting solution from that radar return are two very different technological challenges.

Jason Bourne
12-17-2004, 06:23 PM
correct tully, hell, even the iraqis tracked 117s during PGI, yet still could not shoot them down. and, IIRC, the chinese a few years ago were developing a radar that actually looked for the holes the stealth planes made in the random noise, rather than the planes them selves.


And still, just bump up the power enough and you can get a radar return off anything

Aaron_GT
12-18-2004, 02:12 AM
"Millions of rounds of triple-A. Low tech solutions to high tech problems."

Also they shot down an F117A which is much more visible on radar than a B2.