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darkhorizon11
10-12-2006, 12:22 AM
ahh forget about it? Try this on for size...

1862 the Confederate ship the Merrimac (then renamed the Virginia) sails out of the Elizabeth river for a trial run that turned out to be battlefield testing... That day the future of naval warfare changed forever the day of the old classic nostaglic wooden ships was over... too bad the Cumberland and the Congress found that out the hard way...

I'm taking a civil war history class and in Shelby's Foote's narrative the Civil War he definitely tells a riveting story of how it happened, and the confrontation the next day. When the Monitor showed up to play...

Good stuff and a good well needed vacation from the same old Luft 46 WWII ho hum discussions that have bene going around and around lately!

Esel1964
10-12-2006, 12:47 AM
Shelby Foote's amazing to listen to.He's one of a small few that can captivate you,when he's relating a story.
He spoke on the Civil War at a local university along time ago,and he received a standing ovation. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

BiscuitKnight
10-12-2006, 12:53 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Warrior_%281860%29

Never understood entirely why the battle of Hampton Roads gets the hype it does. First Iron Warship-on-Iron Warship battle? Yes. First use of turret? Yes. Two points to the Americans for firsts.

But long before this everyone knew wooden ships were on the out. HMS Warrior and the French La Gloire had pointed to the future of warships. Still http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif for a non 46 thread.

Esel1964
10-12-2006, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Warrior_%281860%29

Never understood entirely why the battle of Hampton Roads gets the hype it does. First Iron Warship-on-Iron Warship battle? Yes. First use of turret? Yes. Two points to the Americans for firsts.

But long before this everyone knew wooden ships were on the out. HMS Warrior and the French La Gloire had pointed to the future of warships. Still http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif for a non 46 thread.

Hear...Hear...! (regarding '46)

What's particularly intriguing,is the fact that they beat the cr*p out of each other for 2 days,and there really was no winner,yes,the Merrimac turned for home first;but I do the same thing in IL-2,when I'm out of ammo.
Cheers,M8

F19_Olli72
10-12-2006, 03:51 AM
You mean well done Sweden and John Ericsson http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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DuxCorvan
10-12-2006, 04:00 AM
In fact, after any invention or discovery of importance, there's an unknown Spanish mastermind waiting to be discovered. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

ploughman
10-12-2006, 04:12 AM
Originally posted by F19_Olli72:
You mean well done Sweden and John Ericsson http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The inventor of the no-aligned mobile telephone booth?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">


Dum spiro, spero

luftluuver
10-12-2006, 05:55 AM
Nice site with pics and drawings of early ironclads, http://www.klauskramer.de/Schiff/Panzerschiffe/Panzersc...iffe_1_engl_top.html (http://www.klauskramer.de/Schiff/Panzerschiffe/Panzerschiffe_1/Panzerschiffe_1_engl_top.html)

leitmotiv
10-12-2006, 06:41 AM
The battle was a draw because MONITOR had had artificial limits put on how much powder could be used in its guns. Had it been using full charges it would have penetrated the VIRGINIA with ease. The VIRGINIA was loaded-out to fight wooden ships---it was carrying explosive ball ammunition. She had been completely surprised by MONITOR and was not armed to fight an armored ship. If they had been ready for each other, perhaps they would have shot each other to pieces! Shelby Foote had a good run thanks to the Burns docs, but, unfortunately, he disliked black people, and stuck his "foote" in his mouth righteously.

BiscuitKnight
10-12-2006, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by F19_Olli72:
You mean well done Sweden and John Ericsson http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Careful buddy, I was treading on thin ice as it was, this will go UK-vs-USA pretty quickly if you start denying the States credit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. He moved to the States, so the states gets the credit, same as with John Holland.


The inventor of the no-aligned mobile telephone booth?

Inventor of the turreted warship http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif


In fact, after any invention or discovery of importance, there's an unknown Spanish mastermind waiting to be discovered. Razz

Politically Incorrect! I think you mean behind every invention or discovery there's an unknown female mastermind?http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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DuxCorvan
10-12-2006, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
Politically Incorrect! I think you mean behind every invention or discovery there's an unknown female mastermind?http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

An unknown Spanish female mastermind... probably my mother.

J.M.LLOYD
10-13-2006, 02:38 AM
Darkhorizon11 who started this debate mentioned the Great Shelby Foote, he was part of perhaps the best docomentry about the American Civil War that has ever been made it was called The Civil War-a film by Ken Burns. It was the most successful public television miniseries in American history, the 11hours long series that was said captivated a nation[more died in that civil war than all the wars that Americans have been involved in]Amazon.com 8DVD set $96.99

BiscuitKnight
10-13-2006, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
An unknown Spanish female mastermind... probably my mother.

Well then you'd better tell her to break the shackles of male oppression, scream her primal warcry and go gain credit for everything.

You may as well get that credit before Oprah does...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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"More bloatware from the masters, then." - F6_Ace referring to Mircosoft's Internet Explorer 7

woofiedog
10-13-2006, 02:14 PM
All the European Iron Clad's look Tall & Mighty... But, the USS Monitor has a Turret that can traverse 360 degrees. Letting the USS Monitor fire from any postion.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h60000/h60660.jpg
USS Monitor (1862)

Transverse hull section through the turret. Engraving published circa 1862, based on John Ericsson's drawings, and measurements taken from the ship.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h73000/h73688.jpg
USS Monitor (1862-62)

Crewmembers cooking on deck, in the James River, Virginia, 9 July 1862. Photographed by James F. Gibson.
This view looks forward from the port quarter, with the port side blower hatch in the foreground, the two smokestacks in the middle distance and the turret beyond. The sailor standing atop the turret is holding a telescope.
Note cookstove supported on bricks at left and awning above the turret.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h00001/h00574.jpg
USS Monitor (1862)

Crewmen relaxing on deck, while the ship was in the James River, Virginia, on 9 July 1862. View looks forward on the starboard side, with the gun turret beyond.
Note men playing checkers at right. Another man is reading a newspaper by the starboard smokestack.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h61000/h61923.jpg
USS Monitor (1862)

View on deck looking forward on the starboard side, while the ship was in the James River, Virginia, 9 July 1862. The turret, with the muzzle of one of Monitor's two XI-inch Dahlgren smoothbore guns showing, is at left. Note dents in turret armor from hits by Confederate heavy guns and crewmembers atop the turret.
Officers at right are (left to right): Third Assistant Engineer Robinson W. Hands, Acting Master Louis N. Stodder, Second Assistant Engineer Albert B. Campbell (seated) and Acting Volunteer Lieutenant William Flye (with binoculars).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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