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View Full Version : Disable F6 Thread - The Final thread.



96th_Nightshifter
10-01-2006, 04:37 AM
Nothing to add that hasn't ever been said before a million times so here it is in brief.

Cough, cough (clears throat).

Please give the option for servers to be able to disable the F6 key - it really can't be put any simpler than that.
For one of the next patches or even the final (4.08) patch - it would solve so many problems.

If there is some reason why this cannot be done - please at least tell us. It's a very old problem that has been put forth so many times before but with no joy as of yet.

A final push for this simple (as far as I know) and important feature to be added.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW"> Fellow forum users - please do NOT turn this into a Wonder woman v Full Switch thread - it's not what it's about. A simple posted agreement or a friendly *BUMP when the thread gets down to far will do. </span>

Thankyou in advance.

Tater-SW-
10-01-2006, 07:44 AM
Never pushed F6, what does it do? (think I asked this once before, but I can't remember). Is it padlock or something?

tater

LEBillfish
10-01-2006, 07:55 AM
absolutly, plus f7 & if it could be done shift&ctrl F2.......

F2 your plane ext. view
Shift+F2 next friendly plane ext. view
Ctrl+F2 next enemy plane ext. view

F3 flyby

F4 padlock enemy in view
Shift+F4 padlock friendly in view

F5 padlock enemy ground target in view
Shift+F5 padlock friendly ground target in view

F6 closest enemy "external padlock", then cycles through in an external view each click
Shift+F6 closest friendly "external padlock", then cycles through in an external view each click

F7 closest enemy ground target "external padlock", then cycles through in an external view each click
Shift+F7 closest friendly ground target "external padlock", then cycles through in an external view each click


(what would be really nice but WON'T happen too is something we had in RB3d, shift+d key there (i think)...It would let you lock onto a plane, normally friendly like a wingman, and you could click to it at anytime if in range never losing padlock on it........Let you look around yet then relock in on say your flight leader easily, made formation flying easier)

Xiolablu3
10-01-2006, 09:05 AM
Yes Oleg PLEASE let server admins choose between having the options :

1 : Externals on with NO F6 or F&
2 : Externals on with NO F6 but F7 ON
3: Externals on with F6 on but NO F&


The externals are a big part of the game, and its a shame to have these settings locked.

If a server wants to have externals enabled then it HAS to have the 'early warning rader that is F6' too. Surely it would not be too hard to change this to be an option instead of a definite?

Thanks for listening.

VMF-214_HaVoK
10-01-2006, 09:54 AM
Externals enabled without the ability to instantly padlock the enemy plane/ground unit or friendly for that matter would be quite enjoyable.

This would stop the lazy pilot who never looks over his/her shoulder and just taps external padlock every few seconds. Very annoying for the BnZ pilots. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Hoarmurath
10-01-2006, 09:58 AM
If only the external padlock was working the same as the internal one on no icon games, it would be a great improvement.

F6_Ace
10-01-2006, 10:17 AM
Mods: This issue has been raised many times over a long period of time now and it causes numerous problems for those online server administrators who wish to provide 'more granularity' on the balance between fun and realism. i.e. They want to allow people to look at the graphics that Oleg and co spent a lot of time creating whilst also preserving the fine balance between tnb and bnz aircraft by removal of the F6 'radar' key.

Even if it as 'simple' as a line in the server application configuration file rather than any 'difficult' change to the GUI, can it be given due consideration prior to the final patch?

OAC_Kosh
10-01-2006, 10:19 AM
There are external views in the game?????

stanford-ukded
10-01-2006, 10:45 AM
Adding a thumbs up to this. I realise it's been asked for before, but we're talking about the LAST few updates. This is our LAST CHANCE to get these changes in to IL2 - please Oleg - implement it!

tigertalon
10-01-2006, 01:02 PM
A shameless bump.

Mysticpuma2003
10-01-2006, 01:16 PM
I have no shame, so here's another bump. Please let servers disable the F6 key Oleg. Please!

Brain32
10-01-2006, 01:23 PM
BUMP! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
10-01-2006, 01:46 PM
Bump from me as well.

My only caveat is that this should not be disabled completely (bad for making NTRK's for campaigns and bad for choice) but toggleable just like padlock is.

LEBillfish
10-01-2006, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Bump from me as well.

My only caveat is that this should not be disabled completely (bad for making NTRK's for campaigns and bad for choice) but toggleable just like padlock is.

Think that is what everyone is wanting....It helps folks make the leap to ever more difficult setting servers, plus would ease the woes of some of the full real folks to on occassion fly something different.

I myself, most often fly "cockpit on+external view servers"....(no wonder woman view). Yet do it staying internal through the whole flight till the action is over. Sadly it becomes very evident when someone flys using F6, and even more startaling F2..............Not having them switchable makes for a VERY wide gap between our player base....

OMG!!!...not having them switchable is dividing the community!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

ElAurens
10-01-2006, 04:43 PM
To quote another denizen of this forum...

"Agree 100%".

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Philipscdrw
10-01-2006, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Bump from me as well.

My only caveat is that this should not be disabled completely (bad for making NTRK's for campaigns and bad for choice) but toggleable just like padlock is.
Are you sure that would be the case?

When recording an ntrk on a proper server (hehe) with externals turned off, you can still use all the external views when replaying it.

VW-IceFire
10-01-2006, 06:01 PM
Thats not what I mean.

The F6 key can be used to create cinematics in NTRK files for campaigns. I used that technique in Storm Clouds Part One a few times. I also used it in The Setting Sun. I just don't want to see F6 go away completely...I don't want Oleg to come down and say "ok, we can't toggle it because of code but its gone now so you can't use it at all". That would be bad I think.

96th_Nightshifter
10-03-2006, 07:19 PM
*Bump - No shame as this IS important.

BBB_Hyperion
10-03-2006, 08:07 PM
Externals on but f6 off is overdue a long time.

50 % of my bounces get away cause of f6 other 50% cause of bad aim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-HH-Quazi
10-03-2006, 11:35 PM
Yea. Of all the requests that have been made here over the years, this is probably the first one that I can say I would support and like to see implemented for online servers. Bump!

OD_79
10-04-2006, 04:18 AM
How about you just disable external views...simple.

OD.

rr9
10-04-2006, 08:16 AM
Simple but not the same as what they are asking.
Disabling F6 and possibly some of those other keyboard commands listed earlier would create a new difficulty level between externals on, cockpit on and externals off,cockpit on.

Philipscdrw
10-04-2006, 06:15 PM
It's a shame that we can't just use an honour system.

Jettexas
10-04-2006, 11:09 PM
A Bump for this.

It cant hurt to ask one more time.
Others have already explained why this is
needed.



S!

Xiolablu3
10-04-2006, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by OD_79:
How about you just disable external views...simple.

OD.

Becasue thats the point OD.

To have externals but no 'early warning radar'

96th_Nightshifter
10-05-2006, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OD_79:
How about you just disable external views...simple.

OD.

Becasue thats the point OD.

To have externals but no 'early warning radar' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

96th_Nightshifter
10-05-2006, 08:32 PM
*Bump

CAF96th_Sillyak
10-05-2006, 09:28 PM
I played for a month or so on wonderwoman view servers without even knowing about the external views or padlocks. But I agree the F6 key should be an option as well as next enemy and padlock ground.

No601_Swallow
10-06-2006, 02:34 AM
Yep! Even within my squadron, there's a divergence, those who use F6 and then those who feel it ruins the immersion (like me - but I can then use my not using F6 as an excuse for my poor performance!)

So, option to disable F6 is a MUST!

Xiolablu3
10-06-2006, 06:31 AM
Things like taxiing from an airfield which you do not know also become much easier. (As you would have walked around it before you flew in RL)

Also all the great skins and beatiful graphics of the gamecan be seen.

Another good possible option I think would be to have F7 enabled so that bomber pilots can ID their targets easier, but not to have F6 for the fighter to fighter combat. It would encourage more bombing I think.

WOODY01
10-06-2006, 06:56 AM
I aggree with OD 79, if you want it hard core fly from the cockpit. Otherwise stop winging about people getting away.

I am a server admin so I think I can have an opinion on this thread, its not a server youll find in HL though. I think going around disabiling features left right and center is ok for the elite, but when your struggling to maintain pilot numbers in whatever squad your in (people with familys and not much time to spend doing this.) disabiling all the external features might put alot of people off, I can think of several people I fly with that have a hard enough time keeping up with me, let alone engageing bandits ect.

Option?
Or Elitest?

stanford-ukded
10-06-2006, 07:47 AM
Woody what the hell are you talking about? We're asking for an option to disable F6 if the server admin wants to. You don't have to change anything if you don't want to.

BadA1m
10-06-2006, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
It's a shame that we can't just use an honour system. That it is, that it is.

F6_Ace
10-06-2006, 11:35 AM
Yes, it is a shame that an honour system won't work but it only takes one person to start abusing F6 and it all goes to pot.

Woody, as it would be an option, it would have no effect on what you want to do whatsoever.

BUMP

LEBillfish
10-06-2006, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Yes, it is a shame that an honour system won't work but it only takes one person to start abusing F6 and it all goes to pot.

Woody, as it would be an option, it would have no effect on what you want to do whatsoever.
BUMP

So says the "F6 Ace" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

triad773
10-06-2006, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Yes, it is a shame that an honour system won't work but it only takes one person to start abusing F6 and it all goes to pot.

Woody, as it would be an option, it would have no effect on what you want to do whatsoever.
BUMP

So says the "F6 Ace" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

96th_Nightshifter
10-06-2006, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by WOODY01:
I aggree with OD 79, if you want it hard core fly from the cockpit. Otherwise stop winging about people getting away.

I am a server admin so I think I can have an opinion on this thread, its not a server youll find in HL though. I think going around disabiling features left right and center is ok for the elite, but when your struggling to maintain pilot numbers in whatever squad your in (people with familys and not much time to spend doing this.) disabiling all the external features might put alot of people off, I can think of several people I fly with that have a hard enough time keeping up with me, let alone engageing bandits ect.

Option?
Or Elitest?

You kind of missed the point here - we are not asking to disable all external features as this is something we can already do - what we want is the option for the server to disable the use of F6 but still have the option have the standard externals still on.

JtD
10-07-2006, 10:56 AM
I hope I won't get another moderator warning for bumping an F6 topic.

It has been one of my main concerns snce FB came out: Please make the F6 key switchable. Internal padlock is.

Badsight-
10-07-2006, 05:29 PM
F6 is the reason external view gets mocked

LEBillfish
10-08-2006, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
F6 is the reason external view gets mocked

Did you mean locked?

Oh wait a second, you meant mocked, ok i get it.

Sorry about bumping the thread to ask http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

F6_Ace
10-08-2006, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Yes, it is a shame that an honour system won't work but it only takes one person to start abusing F6 and it all goes to pot.

Woody, as it would be an option, it would have no effect on what you want to do whatsoever.
BUMP

So says the "F6 Ace" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

'F6 Ace' is an oxymoron intended to highlight the issue.

When in Rome, though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Vrabac
10-09-2006, 07:39 AM
It's been probably mentioned... but why not disable externals? Who needs F6 if you can just press F2 and have a quick look around? It's rather pointless. Externals on is just that: externals on. No point in trying to make it something else since it will always enable you to use it in an unrealistic and arcade way. Keep away from those servers and you'll be fine.

LEBillfish
10-09-2006, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Vrabac:
It's been probably mentioned... but why not disable externals? Who needs F6 if you can just press F2 and have a quick look around? It's rather pointless. Externals on is just that: externals on. No point in trying to make it something else since it will always enable you to use it in an unrealistic and arcade way. Keep away from those servers and you'll be fine.

Well, that's not the point........Though i'd like to see F2 switchable as well, the big sticking point is F6 where in it works like "spidey sense".....Does eliminating externals fix it? Sure, yet in truth you miss so much of the sim when the action is not going on.

It's long been held under the honor system that you fly internal till rtb'ing or similar. Now that's great if everyone abides by itas then if shot down you can watch the action which in itself is a treat.........Yet there are those that feel "screw it, if I can go external and use radar then why not" and clearly do so. So at that point the game shifts to all internal and no eye candy.

What it would do is make a great stepping stone from externals as we have them now between full internal........Frankly i'd bet if we had this option 80% of the non-wonderwoman servers would use it. As said many times....F2, F6, F7 radars the big sticking points for most.

RCAF_Irish_403
10-09-2006, 08:56 AM
YES....allow the servers to disable F6....that would make my day

Vrabac
10-09-2006, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
It's long been held under the honor system that you fly internal till rtb'ing or similar. Now that's great if everyone abides by itas then if shot down you can watch the action which in itself is a treat.........Yet there are those that feel "screw it, if I can go external and use radar then why not" and clearly do so. So at that point the game shifts to all internal and no eye candy.

I see what you mean, but since there is essentially no button for externals that can't be used to get an otherwise impossible perception (F3 can be great for checking your 6 as well for example), the only solution would be to make externals disabled for someone who is close to enemy plane, or for someone who is in the air, and enabled for, say, someone who is on the ground at 0kmh or bailed or dead. But even in that case it can be misused as means of locating enemy bombers and guiding friendlies to them.

BTW, just to make an example of how externals can be misused even in seemingly most benign element of the game: tracks.

In a certain dogfight-server based virtual war called ADW it's a relatively frequent thing to see someone be in the game for a while, than leave, than come back after some minutes. And very soon a bomber group which was taking an indirect and supposedly unexpected route gets perfectly intercepted and killed by someone from the same squad as the guy who left and rejoined. What happened? The first guy records the track when enemy bombers are in the air, than after some time leaves and checks the track, than explains to his mates where the bombers are and lo and behold the interceptors take off and head to exact location of bombers with almost no course corrections- and get some easy kills.

In short, there will always be thing to exploit with externals on which will make you mad, actually even with externals off you aren't safe from it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So disabling certain features of it wouldn't really change much.

JtD
10-09-2006, 01:09 PM
Yeah, externals off is just so realistic. In the BoB German bomber would wreck havoc in southern England while the entire RAF was flying in pointless circles somewhere near Aberdeen. They just couldn't figure out where the enemy was.

Guess they wished they had someone record a track and point them towards the bombers, or at least someone to use radar and ground control to guide them. That would have been an exploit to drive the Germans mad...

Hoarmurath
10-09-2006, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Vrabac:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
It's long been held under the honor system that you fly internal till rtb'ing or similar. Now that's great if everyone abides by itas then if shot down you can watch the action which in itself is a treat.........Yet there are those that feel "screw it, if I can go external and use radar then why not" and clearly do so. So at that point the game shifts to all internal and no eye candy.

I see what you mean, but since there is essentially no button for externals that can't be used to get an otherwise impossible perception (F3 can be great for checking your 6 as well for example), the only solution would be to make externals disabled for someone who is close to enemy plane, or for someone who is in the air, and enabled for, say, someone who is on the ground at 0kmh or bailed or dead. But even in that case it can be misused as means of locating enemy bombers and guiding friendlies to them.

BTW, just to make an example of how externals can be misused even in seemingly most benign element of the game: tracks.

In a certain dogfight-server based virtual war called ADW it's a relatively frequent thing to see someone be in the game for a while, than leave, than come back after some minutes. And very soon a bomber group which was taking an indirect and supposedly unexpected route gets perfectly intercepted and killed by someone from the same squad as the guy who left and rejoined. What happened? The first guy records the track when enemy bombers are in the air, than after some time leaves and checks the track, than explains to his mates where the bombers are and lo and behold the interceptors take off and head to exact location of bombers with almost no course corrections- and get some easy kills.

In short, there will always be thing to exploit with externals on which will make you mad, actually even with externals off you aren't safe from it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So disabling certain features of it wouldn't really change much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't seem to know very well how externals, padlock and tracks work. I suggest reviewing all these points before entering the discussion again.

In extenso, you seem to have no idea of what we are speaking about. Just to be clear.

Vrabac
10-09-2006, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
Yeah, externals off is just so realistic. In the BoB German bomber would wreck havoc in southern England while the entire RAF was flying in pointless circles somewhere near Aberdeen. They just couldn't figure out where the enemy was.

Guess they wished they had someone record a track and point them towards the bombers, or at least someone to use radar and ground control to guide them. That would have been an exploit to drive the Germans mad...

You're a funny guy. Har har har. Good thing we have radar in this game and good thing you understand what an exploit is.


Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
You don't seem to know very well how externals, padlock and tracks work. I suggest reviewing all these points before entering the discussion again.

In extenso, you seem to have no idea of what we are speaking about. Just to be clear.

I though it's about unfair way of using externals' F6 key in a dogfight? If I'm wrong and you are actually talking about weather than forgive me. However I believe I do know how externals work since I do use them a lot offline. Online I tend to avoid externals in a wide circle and now I again remembered why. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

LEBillfish
10-09-2006, 02:18 PM
Well Vrabac, that's not really the point.....

In an external game hit F2, if you do, you'll note it's really not that helpful, simply able to look at your plane and around it.....In a dogfight it would be a really bad thing to do as it would take too much time to do so.

Now granted, if you hit shift+F2, or ctrl+F2, that can easily be abused in probably more ways then you realize, yet is still not addressing the point of this thread yet a sub point.

Now put your plane in a group of enemy or friendly, you'll note that when you push F6 (or shift+F6 if friendlies), it not only puts you in that F2 view yet locks on & tracks the enemy plane within closest range. That's a distinct advantage even if the plane is somewhere you can't see it........More so, if you keep hitting F6 you'll shift from one to all other enemy planes in range.....Like you have a 360 degree sphere of SA.

Same for f7 though ground targets. It totally eliminates any need to look around instantly finding targets air or ground for you....Unlike F2 which would simply make it harder for you to fight, it makes it much easier........

Yet to go to pure internal makes it so you simply can see very little.....At that point you might as well not even have detailed skins.

So a balance between the two is needed.........That what this proposal speaks of.

F6_Ace
10-09-2006, 04:34 PM
F2 does not automatically identify enemy threats to you. It's irrelevant. As the use of any of the view keys could also be optional, as below, it's doubly irrelevant. As to the British having radar, yes they did, but not every pilot in every air battle had radar so maybe F6 should only be permitted where aircraft were operating with good radar coverage? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

What would be nice is for the conf file of the server to have

[viewrestrictions]
F2=on
F3=on
F6=off
F7=on
SHIFT_F2=on

or something like this? Someone can put me right on how the server actually tells the client(s) what the settings are, maybe(?)

However, what would it involve, seriously? Some extra parsing in the client and a bit mask to determine which keys are actually permitted to operate?

Doesn't sound very difficult to me...nor too much to test.

BBB_Hyperion
10-09-2006, 07:39 PM
Should work but needs client & server app . Client checks for f6 usage and sends blocks it . Server gets information that client is "locked" and gives green light. Well setting f6 on another key or sending command over console is harder to catch. For console it would need direct console port to check for any cheatings inside. Then tricky people could try other things. client app would have to check if client il2 is il2 that connects to server or if the client app has been pointed to a second client or server localy .

F6_Ace
10-10-2006, 06:02 AM
Do you have any "documentation" on the client-server protocol(s)?

JtD
10-10-2006, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by Vrabac:
I though it's about unfair way of using externals' F6 key in a dogfight?

No, there is no unfair way. As long as settings/rules apply to all players the same way, they are fair.

Point would be that it spoils the game & reduces the fun sometimes.

BBB_Hyperion
10-10-2006, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Do you have any "documentation" on the client-server protocol(s)?

Well not needed you can use il2 chat to server from console port over telnet. So transer is secured and encrypted from il2 itself. Only check for keys locked/unlocked should use public and private keys system like rsa. Cause else someone can read the chatlog and just copy the clearance code.

LEBillfish
10-10-2006, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by JtD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vrabac:
I though it's about unfair way of using externals' F6 key in a dogfight?

No, there is no unfair way. As long as settings/rules apply to all players the same way, they are fair.

Point would be that it spoils the game & reduces the fun sometimes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


and in this case that is the problem, as though a server operator may allow externals on yet ask you not use them till after you're out of the fight, many simply refuse to honor that so it's not fair to all........Trouble is as well, most have enough class to not want to start screaming "cheat" and wreck the game for everyone else.

So it turns into either a do as asked and deal with those that don't follow the rules or do it their way and become one of the rule breakers.

Switchable F6 alone would be a huge improvement.

wayno7777
10-10-2006, 08:30 PM
This F6 thing explains alot....

F6_Ace
10-11-2006, 06:09 AM
Yes, it explains how servers with externals enabled provide a large advantage to those not bnz'ing, which was arguably the preferred attack option of most fighter pilots....sun up, out of view, attack while unseen.

Even clouds "work properly" without F6 enabled.

BUMP

BBB_Hyperion
10-11-2006, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Even clouds "work properly" without F6 enabled.



Disagree on that !

Clouds work only on close range dots can be seen in clouds when they are far away cause clouds are not shown at that viewing distance.

ElAurens
10-11-2006, 10:50 AM
The F6 key works equally well for the BnZ pilot too.

No cammo scheme in the world can avoid the all seeing eye of the computer...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

WOODY01
10-12-2006, 06:22 AM
No, I do 'get the point', I just dont aggree with it.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f5/Woodyzeroone/Woody01sig1_3.jpg

stanford-ukded
10-12-2006, 06:42 AM
You don't agree that Oleg should make an option for server owners to remove F6 use whilst maintaining externals?

Why ever not? I don't understand what's not to agree with... It's a step up from wonderwoman / F6 and a step down from FR. Quite a nice halfway point.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.cruise****et.com/images/forumsig.jpg
England expects every man to do his duty (http://www.englandexpects.net)

Xiolablu3
10-12-2006, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vrabac:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
It's long been held under the honor system that you fly internal till rtb'ing or similar. Now that's great if everyone abides by itas then if shot down you can watch the action which in itself is a treat.........Yet there are those that feel "screw it, if I can go external and use radar then why not" and clearly do so. So at that point the game shifts to all internal and no eye candy.

I see what you mean, but since there is essentially no button for externals that can't be used to get an otherwise impossible perception (F3 can be great for checking your 6 as well for example), the only solution would be to make externals disabled for someone who is close to enemy plane, or for someone who is in the air, and enabled for, say, someone who is on the ground at 0kmh or bailed or dead. But even in that case it can be misused as means of locating enemy bombers and guiding friendlies to them.

BTW, just to make an example of how externals can be misused even in seemingly most benign element of the game: tracks.

In a certain dogfight-server based virtual war called ADW it's a relatively frequent thing to see someone be in the game for a while, than leave, than come back after some minutes. And very soon a bomber group which was taking an indirect and supposedly unexpected route gets perfectly intercepted and killed by someone from the same squad as the guy who left and rejoined. What happened? The first guy records the track when enemy bombers are in the air, than after some time leaves and checks the track, than explains to his mates where the bombers are and lo and behold the interceptors take off and head to exact location of bombers with almost no course corrections- and get some easy kills.

In short, there will always be thing to exploit with externals on which will make you mad, actually even with externals off you aren't safe from it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So disabling certain features of it wouldn't really change much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't seem to know very well how externals, padlock and tracks work. I suggest reviewing all these points before entering the discussion again.

In extenso, you seem to have no idea of what we are speaking about. Just to be clear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


What is wrong with what he said?

Thats perfectly possible to do in the game, you can record a track and then look around all the planes in the game.

I once recorded a track of me hitting ground targets with a Me110, afterwards I could look at every player in the game using track+externals.

I think this exploit would be much harder to fix than just allowing externals with no F6 padlock tho.

It should be simple for programmers just to add F6 padlock as an option, rather than a definite when externals are on.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I despise what you say; I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire

Xiolablu3
10-12-2006, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by WOODY01:
I aggree with OD 79, if you want it hard core fly from the cockpit. Otherwise stop winging about people getting away.

I am a server admin so I think I can have an opinion on this thread, its not a server youll find in HL though. I think going around disabiling features left right and center is ok for the elite, but when your struggling to maintain pilot numbers in whatever squad your in (people with familys and not much time to spend doing this.) disabiling all the external features might put alot of people off, I can think of several people I fly with that have a hard enough time keeping up with me, let alone engageing bandits ect.

Option?
Or Elitest?

ARe you really a server admin? I find it hard to believe.

Whats not to like about more options and settings?
Being able to have externals with no padlock will aid taxiing on runways (Pilots would have walked around them first)

Will allow you too view the beautiful planes and models in the game.

Allows you to check your 6 in planes like the TEmpest with a terrible rear view which you annot simply move your head to look around.

The benefits are endless, the negatives are none, simply because you dont have to use it.

Thats why I find it hard to believe you are a server admin.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I despise what you say; I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire

Xiolablu3
10-12-2006, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:

What would be nice is for the conf file of the server to have

[viewrestrictions]
F2=on
F3=on
F6=off
F7=on
SHIFT_F2=on

or something like this? Someone can put me right on how the server actually tells the client(s) what the settings are, maybe(?)

.


Absolutely perfect solution, mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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stanford-ukded
10-12-2006, 09:21 AM
Xiola's on a posting rampage!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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WOODY01
10-12-2006, 04:12 PM
Yes, I really am a server admin...Really. Brandishing me as a lier publicly without any idea at all about our server is a little offencive and Naive.

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Hoarmurath
10-12-2006, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

What is wrong with what he said?

Thats perfectly possible to do in the game, you can record a track and then look around all the planes in the game.

I once recorded a track of me hitting ground targets with a Me110, afterwards I could look at every player in the game using track+externals.

I think this exploit would be much harder to fix than just allowing externals with no F6 padlock tho.

It should be simple for programmers just to add F6 padlock as an option, rather than a definite when externals are on.

The issue is not about the recording. He seem to make a confusion with what you can do in game, and what you can do while watching a track. Its issue of someone recording a track, they getting out of the game to see it to know where are the other planes is specific to a rather awkward utilisation, trying to use a dogfight room for cooperative like play. Last time i checked i could not reenter a cooperative game if i left.

Anyway, the problem isn't at all with the recording, or the externals. It is already possible to switch off the externals. The problem is about the fact that if you leave the externals on, whatever your other options are, you are stuck with having a padlock option that allow instant detection and identification of planes in your area. Currently there is no way to prevent this, short of switching externals off.

Why leave externals on? Well, there are a couple of reasons. It is easier to taxi with external on, and it is nice in long cooperative games so dead people can still follow the action, or just to have the occasion to enjoy the scenery and the skins.

The external padlock can't be switched off, it always identify friends and foes, and it work on 360?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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96th_Nightshifter
10-12-2006, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by WOODY01:
No, I do 'get the point', I just dont aggree with it.

Okay you are a server admin, please explain to me how you cannot agree with having this as an option?
What is it about the option you don't agree with?

You don't have to use this option on your server.

Note, most of us that are posting here fly on "Full Switch" servers but also enjoy cockpit on WITH externals - the only drawback is having the ability to use the "F6 - early warning radar". Being able to disable it is all goodness, there is NO drawback whatsoever.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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BBB_Hyperion
10-12-2006, 10:37 PM
Small Idea

Internal functions for
F7 is ViewEnemyGround
F6 is ViewEnemyAir

When we can overwrite these functions they cant be used.

Just as simple as that there only needs to be a option that doesnt allow calling these functions
this can be used on other keys as well then.

Simple solution

(Server enforced)
function hotkeycmd (EXEC function)
{
if (!(restrictionlist(function)))
{
execute function;
}
}



Deleting just the key assignment from settings doesnt work as following example shows.

Example for Hotkeycmds
RCU File Add
@a cl f cl.il2script

Console command = cl

My carrier landing script. Copyright by myself but freely distributeable to show how it works http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
File
cl.il2script
Contents
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_CARRIERHOOK
@hotkeycmd EXEC Gear
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_GEAR_DOWN_MANUAL
@hotkeycmd EXEC fov90
@hotkeycmd EXEC COCKPITDOOR
@hotkeycmd EXEC cockpitUp
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_FLAPS_NOTCH_DOWN
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_FLAPS_NOTCH_DOWN
@hotkeycmd EXEC AIRCRAFT_FLAPS_NOTCH_DOWN<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-------------------
High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

Hawgdog
10-13-2006, 04:49 AM
An excellent thread.
Also a waste of time requesting.
Been talked about since early 2002.
I've had two threads I started deleted asking the same thing.
Use your 500.00 graphics card to enjoy the wing and cockpit......
Or fly quake servers where someone is using a Ti4200 and 256memory...
Better to get wooden japanese drop tanks than fix long lasting problems. <insert lol here>

BBB_Hyperion
10-13-2006, 05:44 AM
Well as long we dont get other options for wasting our time(yours are not applicable but of course you are free to continue your ti4200 256 mb quake server contests), i am afraid we can discuss it further.

Further research shows that in fact on all hotkeycmd environments there is a list of hotkeys that are allowed. Now if we can use the set command or something like hotkeycmd ENV=Player setattr it should be possible to set and unset allowed keys.

Maybe there is a way to use the difficulty settings to set this ?

[difficulty]
single=26932479
net=31456767<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-------------------
High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

VFA-195 Snacky
10-14-2006, 02:07 AM
If server has Cockpit on set then not an issue. perhaps you should think about flying in different servers with more difficult settings.


Originally posted by 96th_Nightshifter:
Nothing to add that hasn't ever been said before a million times so here it is in brief.

Cough, cough (clears throat).

Please give the option for servers to be able to disable the F6 key - it really can't be put any simpler than that.
For one of the next patches or even the final (4.08) patch - it would solve so many problems.

If there is some reason why this cannot be done - please at least tell us. It's a very old problem that has been put forth so many times before but with no joy as of yet.

A final push for this simple (as far as I know) and important feature to be added.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW"> Fellow forum users - please do NOT turn this into a Wonder woman v Full Switch thread - it's not what it's about. A simple posted agreement or a friendly *BUMP when the thread gets down to far will do. </span>

Thankyou in advance. <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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F6_Ace
10-14-2006, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by VFA-195 Snacky:
If server has Cockpit on set then not an issue. perhaps you should think about flying in different servers with more difficult settings.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 96th_Nightshifter:
Nothing to add that hasn't ever been said before a million times so here it is in brief.

Cough, cough (clears throat).

Please give the option for servers to be able to disable the F6 key - it really can't be put any simpler than that.
For one of the next patches or even the final (4.08) patch - it would solve so many problems.

If there is some reason why this cannot be done - please at least tell us. It's a very old problem that has been put forth so many times before but with no joy as of yet.

A final push for this simple (as far as I know) and important feature to be added.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW"> Fellow forum users - please do NOT turn this into a Wonder woman v Full Switch thread - it's not what it's about. A simple posted agreement or a friendly *BUMP when the thread gets down to far will do. </span>

Thankyou in advance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Not sure what your point is here.

Our point is that we run a server that has cockpit on but that we also have a requirement for externals on, too (we actually run two very popular servers, both perhaps being in the top 25% of those listed in HL). However, we wish to add an extra dimension to the play (or, if you prefer, remove an unrealistic pilot aid) by allowing us to optionally disable some of the external padlocking keys, particularly the F6 key.

i.e. It has nothing to do with 'going somewhere else with different settings' - we want to provide an intermediate step between 'full difficulty - externals off, cockpit on' and the next level down which can only be, at present, 'cockpit on, externals on but with wholly unrealistic pilot radar'

Why would we want to do this?

* Easier to admin server with externals on
* Some people like to use externals to watch the action
* Some people want to look at pilot skins
* Externals on can be useful for formation flying
* F6 totally and utterly undermines any sense of realism by providing pilots with 'auto radar lock on'
* It is perceived to be a relatively easy modification to make to the game
* It's been requested many times by many different people indicating that this would be an addition to the game that would benefit many server operators.
* It would give online play a 'new' lease of life by offering a new experience to new and old players.

Before anyone else posts, remember that this is an optional feature. If you don't like the look or sound of it, you don't have to enable it for your server. It's really that simple.

BUMP<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JtD
10-14-2006, 12:52 PM
So will externals and external padlock ever be seperate settings?

SeaNorris
10-14-2006, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by VFA-195 Snacky:
If server has Cockpit on set then not an issue. perhaps you should think about flying in different servers with more difficult settings.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 96th_Nightshifter:
Nothing to add that hasn't ever been said before a million times so here it is in brief.

Cough, cough (clears throat).

Please give the option for servers to be able to disable the F6 key - it really can't be put any simpler than that.
For one of the next patches or even the final (4.08) patch - it would solve so many problems.

If there is some reason why this cannot be done - please at least tell us. It's a very old problem that has been put forth so many times before but with no joy as of yet.

A final push for this simple (as far as I know) and important feature to be added.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW"> Fellow forum users - please do NOT turn this into a Wonder woman v Full Switch thread - it's not what it's about. A simple posted agreement or a friendly *BUMP when the thread gets down to far will do. </span>

Thankyou in advance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let's just go about assuming any server that isn't full real is an easy flight.

There are some people who think "full real" (by the way it's not full real http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) are the best things since sliced bread.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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96th_Nightshifter
10-14-2006, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by VFA-195 Snacky:
If server has Cockpit on set then not an issue. perhaps you should think about flying in different servers with more difficult settings.



If you think that having the cockpit switched on means there is no issue then your just not getting this at all.
I DO fly in full switch servers and I also fly in servers that have the cockpit ON and also have externals on - What we want is the ability to disable the F6 feature so that we can see the planes externally for taxiing etc. but people can't hit F6 to magically lock onto nearby planes.

I really can't explain this much simpler than that but still seem to keep getting these replies about "flying harder settings" or "fly in different servers" - I fly full switch, I don't see the need to fly in different servers as I fly in most of the "popular" ones and some more obscure ones too.
Changing where I fly does not solve this problem.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Mysticpuma2003
10-15-2006, 04:18 AM
Lets put it simply:

Full Real is like McDonalds. Every where you go you can find it, if I want one I can get one.

Externals on is like Claridges. Not at all common, hard to find, but ultimately a different taste altogether.

Now not everyone wants to eat from McDonalds only, they like to have a variety of things to try.

Disabling F6, is the waiter service http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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96th_Nightshifter
10-15-2006, 08:13 PM
Nice analogy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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BBB_Hyperion
10-16-2006, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by JtD:
So will externals and external padlock ever be seperate settings?

They are already !

Check the environments on hotkeycmd ENV=(look up list in hotkeycmd) this sets and allows keys used in different settings. So structure is there but how it is related to the difficulty settings is another thing.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-------------------
High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

VFA-195 Snacky
10-16-2006, 06:19 PM
I misunderstood your original post. I like the cockpit on and still have some external view available. I enjoy watching the aircraft from the outside sometimes. I still like having external enemy view, but only when it relates to my aircraft. If you could disable an external enemy view from a secondary aircraft then that would be enough I think.

I feel that flight sims are supposed to be fun. the "Full Real" servers feel too much like work to me.

Where is this server you run? The only thing I ever see on HL is the "WarClouds" stuff and the "Easy" servers filled with Spits and LAs.

If I could find a cockpit on, with externals and limited (date specific) plane sets I would be happy.


Originally posted by 96th_Nightshifter:
Nice analogy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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stanford-ukded
10-16-2006, 06:33 PM
UK Dedicated 2 is exactly what you want.

195.149.21.12:21000

It's on Hyperlobby, always in the top 25% during European evening hours and weekends.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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dieg777
10-17-2006, 06:39 PM
Yes please - It would be good to get
UKDED2 settings without F6
Iv lost count of times Iv linned up the shot either by high bounce or sneaky low six only to be radared http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

choice is a good thing for users http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Hawgdog
10-18-2006, 05:12 AM
Originally posted by dieg777:
Yes please - It would be good to get
UKDED2 settings without F6
Iv lost count of times Iv linned up the shot either by high bounce or sneaky low six only to be radared


Plus one. It would be GRAND. Nice for finding which way to go off dirt runway.
Also nice to watch teammates. Like in real life, the guys with the best eyes lived the longest.

It makes sense to have it as an option..which..is...why..it..will...
Never happen.

96th_Nightshifter
10-18-2006, 06:27 PM
*Bump<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Hawgdog
10-19-2006, 04:33 AM
It makes sense to have it as an option..which..is...why..it..will...
Never happen.

96th_Nightshifter
10-20-2006, 08:49 AM
*Bump

Not giving up on this thread just yet.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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F6_Ace
10-21-2006, 02:24 AM
Without an angry mob behind it, this stands little chance of being implemented.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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stanford-ukded
10-21-2006, 03:51 AM
How did people get the 1.65 ata / k4-c3 (or whatever it is) included? Maybe we should get them to whine for us.

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Badsight-
10-21-2006, 06:50 AM
the only trouble with the whole thing is . . . . we can see how much sense it would make

it would add something , yet take nothing away . a request from the community for enhanced gameplay .

considering how old the dead horse is , Maddox Games must have their reasons<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1741/shindendrawflight66os.jpg

F6_Ace
10-21-2006, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by stanford-ukded:
How did people get the 1.65 ata / k4-c3 (or whatever it is) included? Maybe we should get them to whine for us.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I was thinking more of the fifty cal brigade http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004YL1M.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

96th_Nightshifter
10-22-2006, 05:40 PM
*Bump<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Vike
10-22-2006, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by stanford-ukded:
How did people get the 1.65 ata / k4-c3 (or whatever it is) included? Maybe we should get them to whine for us.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

1.98ata http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The Me109K4-C3 addition was one of many requests about the 109 serie (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/3441006933?r=3441006933#3441006933).
(See here too (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/3441006933/r/7711098553#7711098553))
I think we were lucky to get this plane! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Anyway,i support this thread too!
The F6 key is a real suspense/surprise broker in the servers that permitt external views.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

@+<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Henkie_
10-23-2006, 04:22 PM
Andy Bush will not be happy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

EAF322_Henkie

Copperhead310th
10-25-2006, 06:44 PM
wELL I'LL SUM THIS ISSUE UP.

Not every one out there has track IR. Period.
by alowing others on a server to use track ir and limit the options of those who do not your are creating an unfair balance. and IMO anything that causes a handicap of one player, while benifiting another, weather intentional or not is just out right cheating.and that's the way i see it.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Former CO of 310thVFS, (Retired) now part time
190 jock & full time target drone for JG27
http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//2006-02-23_012924_pilot11.gif Flying on line as JG27_Copperhead

|^^^^^^^^^^^^|
| JG27_Copperhead | '|""";.., ___.
|_..._...______===|= _|__|..., ] |
"(@ )'(@ )""""*|(@ )(@ )*****(@
"Keep on Truck'n!"

Copperhead310th
10-25-2006, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by Vike:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stanford-ukded:
How did people get the 1.65 ata / k4-c3 (or whatever it is) included? Maybe we should get them to whine for us.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

1.98ata http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The Me109K4-C3 addition was one of many requests about the 109 serie (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/3441006933?r=3441006933#3441006933).
(See here too (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/3441006933/r/7711098553#7711098553))
I think we were lucky to get this plane! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Anyway,i support this thread too!
The F6 key is a real suspense/surprise broker in the servers that permitt external views.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

@+ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As if i actually enjoy flying around in a big orange wig with a big read nose and CLOWN SHOES.
CLOWN WAGON> period. should have be left out.
I'd prefer to fly a more realistic 109 thank you very much. something that'sactually a challangr to fly and not just a tie fighter on steroids. lol<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/ubisig.jpg
Former CO of 310thVFS, (Retired) now part time
190 jock & full time target drone for JG27
http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//2006-02-23_012924_pilot11.gif Flying on line as JG27_Copperhead

|^^^^^^^^^^^^|
| JG27_Copperhead | '|""";.., ___.
|_..._...______===|= _|__|..., ] |
"(@ )'(@ )""""*|(@ )(@ )*****(@
"Keep on Truck'n!"

F6_Ace
10-26-2006, 10:35 AM
CH - take your infantile spelling and ill-informed views elsewhere, eh?

BUMP

Jettexas
10-26-2006, 02:18 PM
Gents and Ladies-
Lets keep it on track please, thanks for the bump of course but debates over FM/DM are for another thread, and usually quickly digress into one of two types..
Type 1."The Ghetto Shouting match" (Outright name calling,ugliness and character assasination)
-or-
Type 2. "Ive been waiting all my life for a social opportunity to demonstrate my math abilities" (bury the thread in ever more arcane graphs and non-linear equations..which four people actually understand..before finally attacking the test method.. then eventually the author...at which point we're back at type 1....)

This thread is about-
"Lets give admins the OPTION to disable F6 to provide hosts with a wider range of difficulty options and better serve a diverse community."

A bump in the spirit of St. Jude.

Thanks-
Jett/Redfish<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Hawgdog
10-27-2006, 05:04 AM
would be nice to spot the bomber, loop around back, keeping your eye on him, then come cranking down for the kill without the plane suddenly manuevering when you come from low and under it.

JtD
10-27-2006, 09:53 AM
I think this topic deserves to stay up high. I'd give half the 46 add on for this feature.

96th_Nightshifter
11-01-2006, 02:32 AM
A well needed *Bump<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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LEBillfish
11-04-2006, 09:10 PM
whine........bump<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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SlickStick
11-07-2006, 01:52 PM
Good idea. And look at it this way, even with this option added, one could still use externals, when enabled, to spot incoming bandits without the magical "lock-on" effect. Not that much difference in the SA part, but a little harder on those that use externals to padlock incoming fighters/bombers. One would just have to do it manually with the mouse.

Where the "No F6" option really comes in very handy, would be during the actual dogfighting part of the engagement and not allowing the external padlock to happen, regardless if padlock is turned on or off on the server, like it does now.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Tipo_Man
11-09-2006, 03:57 AM
Did somebody mentioned disabling the F3 key ?!

Its almost the same, and that's the reason I don't play on servers with externals on.
You simply can't bounce. You are forced to make long distance spray and prey shots, instead of silently close and shoot down.
Your only chance is when the bandid is chasing a teammate of yours. But then I have the dilema:"Should I spray at the bandid just to scare him and save my team mate, or wait and close enough for the deadly shot". Guess what most players choose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

An advice for not so experienced players :
It's actually easier to achieve a kill in "real" server.

BBB_Hyperion
11-09-2006, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by Tipo_Man:
Did somebody mentioned disabling the F3 key ?!

Its almost the same, and that's the reason I don't play on servers with externals on.
You simply can't bounce. You are forced to make long distance spray and prey shots, instead of silently close and shoot down.
Your only chance is when the bandid is chasing a teammate of yours. But then I have the dilema:"Should I spray at the bandid just to scare him and save my team mate, or wait and close enough for the deadly shot". Guess what most players choose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

An advice for not so experienced players :
It's actually easier to achieve a kill in "real" server.
(That is true when all play by the rules, fact is there are no rules)

Agree on Fnn keys ,all Keys should be Configurable for difficulty settings and are in the internal structure.

Only that you don't know how to check6 without looking on fr does not mean it is not possible. That is one of the reasons i don't fly full real anymore cause advantage is not balanced and secured along with other crazy stuff you can do unnoticed on a harder than real view restriction. The argument fly with friends only is pointless as in competition there are always new pilots and why restricting yourself to fly only with "friends" when the game engine should take care of "exploits". So externals on is a lot safer in this regard it allows to be on par with exploits and you can always check if something "weird" is happening like planes take no damage or fly a little "too" fast .
(Which is not detected by client time, server time check).

Oh and when you can df planes with externals on which is harder than in fr you can easier use planes to their limits.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-------------------
High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

96th_Nightshifter
11-14-2006, 02:25 AM
*Bump<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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waffen-79
11-14-2006, 10:45 AM
BUMP-o-RAMA

AGREE 110%

guys is there a server that:

ironically doesn't use ARCADE lives system
kabin/cockpit always ON
with F2 enabled?
+ skins enabled?

heck I didn't expend hours making a skin I'm not able to see :/<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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96th_Nightshifter
11-15-2006, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by waffen-79:
BUMP-o-RAMA

AGREE 110%

guys is there a server that:

ironically doesn't use ARCADE lives system
kabin/cockpit always ON
with F2 enabled?
+ skins enabled?

heck I didn't expend hours making a skin I'm not able to see :/

Yeam mate try UKDedicated 2 server - should suit your purposes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Copperhead310th
11-16-2006, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
CH - take your infantile spelling and ill-informed views elsewhere, eh?

BUMP

1. That's a personal attack on another forum member.

2. I've been here a lot longer than you have bub. chances are I?ll still be here after your long gone, and off playing Warcraft, of some goofy fps game that takes the intellect of a flea to play with any real proficiency.

3. I spell perfectly. My typing need LOTS of work. I just don't bother to correct my mistakes. Basically, I can spell, & I can type. I just can't do both correctly @ the same time.

But I?m almost willing to bet I could chew bubble gum and kick your lily @ss all at the same time there jack@ss.

Have a nice day there chuckles.

SlickStick
11-17-2006, 08:20 AM
Ooh, internet bravado just makes me all a quiver inside. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Rise above it, CH, you're bigger than that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

__________________________________
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Mysticpuma2003
11-17-2006, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
CH - take your infantile spelling and ill-informed views elsewhere, eh?

BUMP

1. That's a personal attack on another forum member.

2. I've been here a lot longer than you have bub. chances are I?ll still be here after your long gone, and off playing Warcraft, of some goofy fps game that takes the intellect of a flea to play with any real proficiency.

3. I spell perfectly. My typing need LOTS of work. I just don't bother to correct my mistakes. Basically, I can spell, & I can type. I just can't do both correctly @ the same time.

But I?m almost willing to bet I could chew bubble gum and kick your lily @ss all at the same time there jack@ss.

Have a nice day there chuckles. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Reminds of the British comedian Eric Morecambe.

Conductor says " You're playing the wrong notes!"

Morecambe says " I am playing the RIGHT notes, just maybe not in the right order!"

As long as we understand it IY Downt cee wot da prowblum is!!

Cheers, MP.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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crazyivan1970
11-17-2006, 09:27 AM
Misticpuma, you sig is too big
F6_Ace chill
Copper chill

If it continues in the wrong direction i will either:

1) Move it to GD - best case
2) Lock it.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

V!
Regards,

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Vike
11-17-2006, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
1. That's a personal attack on another forum member.

Oh,it seems i was aimed at!? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

lol http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif *Bump* http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

@+<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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96th_Nightshifter
11-17-2006, 09:04 PM
Try to keep it on Topic folks - this IS an important feature.
Lets not get it locked.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JtD
11-18-2006, 04:30 AM
Aces over Europe had a nice feature that allowed you to save views and call them up. I had one each to check my high left & high right, I could call them up in a split second and thus check my six.

With TIR 6 dof support coming along I'd really like to see that feature in BoB. Not everyone wants to spend the money and wear silly hats while playing computer games. But without, I am afraid I'll always spend a couple of seconds just to turn my head back and forth again.

Playing AoE I never felt I needed F6. In FB, I sadly am addicted to it. Still wish it was gone.

JamesBlonde888
11-19-2006, 08:41 PM
Bah what a load of rubbish.

6 pages.

Nobody is forcing you to use it.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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SlickStick
11-20-2006, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by JamesBlonde888:
Bah what a load of rubbish.

6 pages.

Nobody is forcing you to use it.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif I'm pretty sure they don't want folks using it on their servers when they are not using it themselves.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

__________________________________
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JamesBlonde888
11-20-2006, 08:37 PM
Well those people obviously need it to have a good game. It doesn't change the performance of your a/c or your skill level. Nobody improves much by defeating an inferior opponent.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/JamesBlonde/newsig.bmp
3) Shouts 'Bleiben Sie auf Krs du kkuk!' when a family member detaches itself from the shopping formation.
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96th_Nightshifter
11-21-2006, 04:30 AM
Originally posted by JamesBlonde888:
Well those people obviously need it to have a good game. It doesn't change the performance of your a/c or your skill level. Nobody improves much by defeating an inferior opponent.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Did you even read the first post?

A simple posted agreement or a friendly *BUMP when the thread gets down to far will do.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Xiolablu3
11-22-2006, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by waffen-79:
BUMP-o-RAMA

AGREE 110%

guys is there a server that:

ironically doesn't use ARCADE lives system
kabin/cockpit always ON
with F2 enabled?
+ skins enabled?

heck I didn't expend hours making a skin I'm not able to see :/

I second that, its an excellent server.

Would be even more excellent with externals on and F6 key disabled, but this is not possible unfortunately (BIG HINT http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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-Voltaire

JamesBlonde888
11-23-2006, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by 96th_Nightshifter:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Did you even read the first post?
.

No, I only read the title, I merely assumed that some guy was having a whine about the F6 thing because he gets shot down a lot. People always find something to blame and I wasn't going to sift through 6 pages of bull-**** to establish context and a relevant argument, I have better things to do.

One thing about the AI in this game, they might be **** pilots but they don't whine about the game features because they are ****.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/JamesBlonde/newsig.bmp
3) Shouts 'Bleiben Sie auf Krs du kkuk!' when a family member detaches itself from the shopping formation.
http://www.freewebs.com/jamesblonde888/

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TC_Stele
11-25-2006, 12:52 AM
Bump. This problem is a serious when that would greatly be appreciated if it were fixed.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

=====================
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9899/il2siggx3.gif

96th_Nightshifter
11-25-2006, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by JamesBlonde888:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 96th_Nightshifter:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Did you even read the first post?
.

No, I only read the title, I merely assumed that some guy was having a whine about the F6 thing because he gets shot down a lot. People always find something to blame and I wasn't going to sift through 6 pages of bull-**** to establish context and a relevant argument, I have better things to do.

One thing about the AI in this game, they might be **** pilots but they don't whine about the game features because they are ****. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well do yourself a favour and actually read the first post and you will see that you are completely wrong in your assumption.
Nobody is complaining about it because they are **** pilots.
Instead of jumping to conclusions why not actually find out what you are replying to instead of looking foolish by replying in such a childish way.

Oh yeah *Bump<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JtD
11-25-2006, 10:56 AM
Look at it this way, he bumped an important topic quite a few times this way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Vike
11-25-2006, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
Look at it this way, he bumped an important topic quite a few times this way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oh,yes i didn't noticed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Does anyone know if Oleg/1c has ever talked about the "F6 feature"? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

@+<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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WOODY01
11-28-2006, 05:24 AM
Rich get richer, poor get poorer, Thats how I see this topic.

And dont worry Im already very 'Rich'

I still dont think you need this option overall. A few obviously hate the fact that it exsits (were talking around 30 people have actually taken the time to come in here and agree with it, apart from that its 6 pages of boring 'Bumps' from a few pilots)

I have never ever had a problem with anyone useing a key on there keybored to try and keep up, or get out of my way online, Im sorry but I dont agree that what your asking for is worth Oleg and crew hacking the code to please 30 odd people. (before you jump on me, no I know nothing about the code in this sim)

You have posted this thread on a public forum, so Im sorry but people can come in here and dissagree with your point of view. Most, probly just dont want to be hung out too dry as some have already been on this thread.

I couldnt give a 'Rats' what you think of me and my server.

You are not the be all and end all of online flying. Others that have neither the time, hardware, or PC grunt need a chance online or elce they wont come back. And you will all be flying alone. know that feeling?

Most people that have the time and infulstucture to set servers up are heavily into it, most people that fly online probably have many commitments and fly online when they can. So. I think yes, what your asking for would be exerlant for those few online real ACE's, thier K/D ratio would no longer be effected by stupid runway crash deaths from a panicked takeoff. But overall I think it would turn too many servers too hard for the average 'Joe' thus ultimatly reducing our overall player pool.

Hard to accept? Or just wrong?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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WOODY01
11-28-2006, 05:37 AM
Also dont expect me to bite on any replys, I havent got time, that is just my personal opinion.

LEBillfish
11-28-2006, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by WOODY01:Hard to accept? Or just wrong?

Just wrong, as it affects no one (having the option) that doesn't want it........Now, there is an equally strong contingent of "Keep F6, don't spend the time...etc.etc.." In truth be it either missing the point, OR not wanting their bit of crib in the pilot curve taken away, what they are failing to see is it takes nothing away from anyone....

As it simply becomes another option, only "adding" to what we already have. Enabling or disabling the server operators choice..........So naturally, the only ones that would have an issue with this request would be those that "rely upon it"....Hence fearing their eventual and sure to come loss of some servers that run it.

Point of fact.....There are "internal only/full real" servers that are that way simply due to Ctrl+F2/F6/F7.....There are also a number of server operators who refuse to run coops, or DF servers due to the current Ctrl+F2/F6/F7 options, wanting externals for eye candy yet the abuses too blatant turning a sim into arcade.

Server numbers would grow, though most likely, Ctrl+F2/F6/F7 on servers would reduce......The only one losing out in the end however the person who utilizes it for a hedge their available servers thinning somewhat.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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ElAurens
11-28-2006, 10:37 AM
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Well said Billfish.

WOODY01 doth protest too much methinks.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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96th_Nightshifter
11-28-2006, 02:08 PM
Thankyou for that well thought out and intelligent reply Billfish, you are of course completely correct.
If another much needed and wanted option is added it takes nothing away from the game whatsoever.

Only 30 odd people want it? you don't honestly believe that Woody do you?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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FritzGryphon
11-28-2006, 03:17 PM
Does anyone know if Oleg/1c has ever talked about the "F6 feature"?

I'm surprised no one in this thread remembers when Oleg did comment on this. Or maybe I'm just really old.

He said something to the effect that, because of the way the views are coded, they can only be enabled or disabled as an entire module. There is no way currently to enable or disable individual external views without affecting them all.

So another: it's not supported by the engine, so cross your fingers that BoB has it.

JamesBlonde888
11-28-2006, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by 96th_Nightshifter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JamesBlonde888:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 96th_Nightshifter:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Did you even read the first post?
.

No, I only read the title, I merely assumed that some guy was having a whine about the F6 thing because he gets shot down a lot. People always find something to blame and I wasn't going to sift through 6 pages of bull-**** to establish context and a relevant argument, I have better things to do.

One thing about the AI in this game, they might be **** pilots but they don't whine about the game features because they are ****. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well do yourself a favour and actually read the first post and you will see that you are completely wrong in your assumption.
Nobody is complaining about it because they are **** pilots.
Instead of jumping to conclusions why not actually find out what you are replying to instead of looking foolish by replying in such a childish way.

Oh yeah *Bump </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That would be totally out of character. I wouldn't want to be responsible for people ****ting themselves with shock.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JamesBlonde888
11-28-2006, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by 96th_Nightshifter:
Nothing to add that hasn't ever been said before a million times so here it is in brief.

Cough, cough (clears throat).

Please give the option for servers to be able to disable the F6 key - it really can't be put any simpler than that.
For one of the next patches or even the final (4.08) patch - it would solve so many problems.

If there is some reason why this cannot be done - please at least tell us. It's a very old problem that has been put forth so many times before but with no joy as of yet.

A final push for this simple (as far as I know) and important feature to be added.

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<span class="ev_code_YELLOW"> Fellow forum users - please do NOT turn this into a Wonder woman v Full Switch thread - it's not what it's about. A simple posted agreement or a friendly *BUMP when the thread gets down to far will do. </span>

Thankyou in advance.


Oh. I never knew you could cycle through them all!

I agree. Get rid of it.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Vike
11-28-2006, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
I'm surprised no one in this thread remembers when Oleg did comment on this. Or maybe I'm just really old.

He said something to the effect that, because of the way the views are coded, they can only be enabled or disabled as an entire module. There is no way currently to enable or disable individual external views without affecting them all.

So another: it's not supported by the engine, so cross your fingers that BoB has it.

Arf... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Thx anyway for your answer!

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LEBillfish
12-01-2006, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
He said something to the effect that, because of the way the views are coded, they can only be enabled or disabled as an entire module. There is no way currently to enable or disable individual external views without affecting them all..

Ok, so since padlock (F4/Sh+F4,F5/Sh+F5), Internal cockpit pilot position F1/Sh+F1 are seperate controls, then it makes the solution simple....

If X=Is on and Y=is off then you simply add a new module.

Current No Externals:
(No External View Switch=X)
F2=Y
F3=Y
F6=Y
F7=Y

Current Externals Allowed:
(No External View Switch=Y)
F2=X
F3=X
F6=X
F7=X

New Externals Allowed:
(New "Limited" External View Switch=X, Which superceedes "No External View Switch=XorY")
F2=Y
F3=Y
F6=Y
F7=Y

So a third Module the 4th being if you seek it "Cockpit Always On=XorY")<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Xiolablu3
12-01-2006, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Does anyone know if Oleg/1c has ever talked about the "F6 feature"?

I'm surprised no one in this thread remembers when Oleg did comment on this. Or maybe I'm just really old.

He said something to the effect that, because of the way the views are coded, they can only be enabled or disabled as an entire module. There is no way currently to enable or disable individual external views without affecting them all.

So another: it's not supported by the engine, so cross your fingers that BoB has it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh I wondt think many of us knew this mate.

Thanks for the info, its a shame.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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