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RustKnight_444
09-03-2006, 01:18 AM
hi guys i am new to this forum, and i have some questions about my favourite plane, the Me-262, i mena it's kind of slow, and i was wondering if i cna push the limits, something like, burn the damn engines to hell but have more speed or something, thx for reading this and...oh yeah one more thing, why doesn't multiplayer have a skirmish game smomething like, my budy in a team with me VS some AI and i select their planes and all, something like the quick game from single player...so is there such a thing like that? cuz i didn't find a way to fly Me-262 with my buddy fighing some AI controlled planes

anyhow thx

As rusty as ever
Rust_Knight

JG1_Pilot
09-03-2006, 01:41 AM
The me-262 is very sensetive to throttle controls so dont push the throttle to maximum very fast. Also there in no skirmish mode in online mode. The closest thing to that is coop.

FritzGryphon
09-03-2006, 01:45 AM
You can burn the engines all right, but it won't make you go any faster http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

There is no WEP for the Me-262, just regular throttle. I think it is actually the fastest plane in the game, save for the Me-163 rocket. On the deck it does 800-something.

It doesn't accelerate particularly well, and it loses a lot of speed in turns, so you should avoid this. It climbs best at speeds above 350km/h.

You can fight AI planes in Co-op missions. In these missions there is no respawning. In Dogfight missions, there is no AI, nor do ground objects move.

VW-IceFire
09-03-2006, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by RustKnight_444:
hi guys i am new to this forum, and i have some questions about my favourite plane, the Me-262, i mena it's kind of slow, and i was wondering if i cna push the limits, something like, burn the damn engines to hell but have more speed or something, thx for reading this and...oh yeah one more thing, why doesn't multiplayer have a skirmish game smomething like, my budy in a team with me VS some AI and i select their planes and all, something like the quick game from single player...so is there such a thing like that? cuz i didn't find a way to fly Me-262 with my buddy fighing some AI controlled planes

anyhow thx

As rusty as ever
Rust_Knight
You must be flying a different aircraft...the Me-262 is VERY fast. What you may be mistaking it for is its slow acceleration rate. In the QMB...you start very slowly which is fine for the average propeller aircraft...but the jets take their time to build speed. It can take a couple of minutes from takeoff start before you reach maximum top speed.

On takeoff with a Me-262 you'll want to push the throttle gently towards 95%. Ignore the overheat warning and keep the jet accelerating. Lift off slowly...keep those flaps down for a good 30 seconds...then rase the flaps...trim slightly nose high and wait for the plane to pickup speed. Then head for your target (or waypoint).

In a fight...avoid turning. Always go for the straight line hits.

junkers2006
09-04-2006, 01:00 PM
well! i fly with me 262 on a 870kmh normaly!

and listen to ace! train to shoot on turnings, because you have a rare chance to shot down a enemy fighter to straight line! if you can shoot down enemy planes on turnings like i can, and maneurving perfectly! then you are the real ace pilot!

tigertalon
09-04-2006, 01:11 PM
Me262 has terrible acceleration, that's true, but tremendous max speed. If you keep your speed high, above around 700kph, you will never overheat even with max throttle.

Plus, like other guys said, push the throttle very VERY slowly forward or backwards. And don't forget to have it at 0 when you start the engines on the ground.

JG53Frankyboy
09-04-2006, 01:23 PM
use the engine rpm gauges in the 262 . use as max 8000 rpm - no overheat.

OMK_Hand
09-05-2006, 01:43 PM
Hi RustKnight_444

Be very gentle with the throttle below 6000 rpm, or you will burn.
Above 6000 rpm, be as aggressive as you like.
Once up to speed at a high throttle setting, the 262 will cruise at 7500 rpm at around 750 Km/h, which is around 466 mph, which is a pretty fast cruising speed.

This holds for all of the jets, more or less.

Eth-Zee
09-06-2006, 12:58 PM
Ahhhh.

I've always had problems with using the Me262, or for that matter the other jet-aircraft. Notably, that the engines overheat and catch fire. Which isn't that fun. _

Your advice is a great help. Now, I may finally be able to use those neato Gotha 229s!

Taurus_Slo
09-07-2006, 03:49 AM
Hi,

over 70% RPM you can do with the throttle what ever you want. Even fast changes. If you over 600 kmph, the engines doesn't overheat anymore.

But, you will not be able to play it online, since the plane is banned from all servers ...

LP

Fighterduck
09-07-2006, 07:17 AM
no, you can find it on UK1.Played a map yesterday where germans could use it against russians yak and La.

Triyng to kill it in straight flight its pretty impossible, but how real pilots said in some interviews: the 262 loosed speed really fast during turns and if you can catch it when its not on max speed and pilot have to push the throttle fast to escape you...its an easy target, since 262 have a slow accellerations and pilot cant push throttle fast or engines will take fire.
But despite this possibilites..i found pretty impossible to kill one ^^

HayateAce
09-07-2006, 11:41 AM
262 fell victim to many a Mustang Aviator in the WW two, so don't expect it to be some saviour of the Tird Reich. Or perhaps in real life the P51 was a truly outstanding fighter plane.


Captain Robert F. Sargent torches this one. In the second pic, we are glad to see the german opponent parachuting safely to the earth.

http://www.web-birds.com/8th/339/gun/r4-7.jpg

http://www.web-birds.com/8th/339/gun/r10-27.jpg

3.JG51_BigBear
09-07-2006, 12:07 PM
Mustang pilots generally got their jet kills when the Me 262 was slowing to land (it had a very long final approach). A 262 pilot couldn't make a lot of evasive manuevers at that point because of the weight of the aircraft, the plane's poor low speed manueverability, and the fact that he would have to advance the throttle very slowly if he wanted to accelerate.

Mustangs were also able to "bounce" Me-262 pilots easier than one would think because many 262 pilots flew without a wingman. It was very difficult to fly formation in the 262 because of the poor throttle response and the lack of an airbrake. In a dive the Mustang could build tremendous speed and catch up to an unsuspecting 262 pilot.

JG53Frankyboy
09-07-2006, 12:26 PM
and actually, if jets wouldnt be superiour in general................ why even the mighty USAF changed to jets http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

HayateAce
09-07-2006, 12:48 PM
Oh.

Stuka_lover
09-22-2006, 09:15 PM
"109Z flew briefly, after being hit by a bomb. Go-229 also saw combat, when the factory was overrun." ~pingu666
umm, when did that happen? the 109Z?

also, on a side note, the Military channel and others agree that the P51 Mustang is the best fighter of all time.

(Personally i love mustangs of all versions, car, horse, plane, and i also love the B17F/G and the Ki43, Ju87D/G4

berg417448
09-22-2006, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Stuka_lover:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"109Z flew briefly, after being hit by a bomb. Go-229 also saw combat, when the factory was overrun." ~pingu666
umm, when did that happen? the 109Z?

also, on a side note, the Military channel and others agree that the P51 Mustang is the best fighter of all time.

(Personally i love mustangs of all versions, car, horse, plane, and i also love the B17F/G and the Ki43, Ju87D/G4 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The BF-109Z prototype was finished in mid-1943, but damaged by Allied bombers before it could be flown.

Oddly_Familiar
09-24-2006, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Stuka_lover:

also, on a side note, the Military channel and others agree that the P51 Mustang is the best fighter of all time.


Well, an F-22 Raptor might want to disagree.. but I see your point. Why Oh Why is it so awful in PF then? those 50 cals dont do any damage! the handling is as twitchy as it should be, but the weaponry leaves somewhat to be desired. I was under the impression that 6 50cals would cut wings off, but that doesnt seem to happen. I know that the USAF had considerable advantages over the Russian MiGs in the korean war becuase they were using %0 cals whilst the MiGs had cannon, yet in this game the cannon are obviously the better weapons. What gives?

berg417448
09-24-2006, 03:47 PM
Nothing wrong with the .50s in this game if you actually hit your target with them.

US fighters stuck with 50 calbers for various reasons...one of them being the fact that the development of a US 20mm cannon was screwed up. ( http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/US404.htm )US fighters also had to deal with fighters much more often than bombers so the 50 was adequte for a fighter but less so for a large bomber.

I remember hearing about a report a report done by USAF Colonel Eagleston, who estimated that 2/3rds of the MiG-15s hit with the .50 guns escaped.



"Several other experiments of note were undertaken by FEAF fighter units during the war. From mid-January to May 1953 FEAF conducted a test designated "Project Gun Val," which involved new armament for the F-86. The Sabre pilots had been complaining for some time about the .50-caliber machine gun's lack of stopping power. On too many occasions they got behind a MiG but were unable to bring it down. On the other hand, the MiG's 20mm and 37mm cannons often caused serious, if not fatal, damage to their adversaries."

https://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/EARS/MiGAlley.htm

VW-IceFire
09-24-2006, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Oddly_Familiar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stuka_lover:

also, on a side note, the Military channel and others agree that the P51 Mustang is the best fighter of all time.


Well, an F-22 Raptor might want to disagree.. but I see your point. Why Oh Why is it so awful in PF then? those 50 cals dont do any damage! the handling is as twitchy as it should be, but the weaponry leaves somewhat to be desired. I was under the impression that 6 50cals would cut wings off, but that doesnt seem to happen. I know that the USAF had considerable advantages over the Russian MiGs in the korean war becuase they were using %0 cals whilst the MiGs had cannon, yet in this game the cannon are obviously the better weapons. What gives? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Aim.

The .50cals are a deadly weapon in the hands of those who can hit their targets with them. I know plenty who have the practice and skill with them and no plane is immune to going up like a roman candle when hit with a sufficient quantity of .50cal bursts. Usually this in the 1-2 second range of solid burst at convergence. Zeros and other Japanese fighters tend to light up within 1 second of being hit...some of them explode in the first shot. German planes tend to take longer but will be crippled.

.50cals will generally not rip wings off. Most of the time, those wings falling off on the gun camera footage happen because the target aircraft has been struck repeatedly or because something exploded. The famous FW190 footage exploding and shearing the wing off...those .50cals hit the cannon ammo box which is not modeled in this sim. What .50cal does do really well is hitting stuff inside of the plane (thus the armor piercing bullets). It'll go through engine blocks, fuel tanks, and other important bits of the plane inside.

As for the P-51 flight model...I feel its porked. Its horizontal stability is lacking and it makes it osscilate unecessarily while you try and line up a target. I prefer the P-47 these days when I want a USAAF fighters...or even better...the P-38.

As for the Korean war...the reason the cannons faired poorly was because of lower muzzle velocities. It was easier to hit with the .50cal because of a faster fire rate (BTW: Korean war F-86 Sabres used the M3 .50cal with a higher fire rate)...mind you...the situation wasn't all that rosey for the .50cal in Korea. There were far too many instances of a F-86 pilot putting an entire ammo load into a Mig-15 with little effect. This is when the USAAF stepped up their program to replace the .50cal on aircraft.

Stuka_lover
09-29-2006, 07:41 PM
wow, that is a lot of info! but i have another dumb question for you all. I fly version 4.01 and thus have NO online play, and only the PF version. so my question is.

WHY THE HELL DOES THE AUTO PILOT ALWAYS CRASH OR ZOOM OFF THE FRONT OF THE AIRCRAFT CARRIERS AND INTO THE SEA ON LANDING?!?!?!?! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

also.

The Go 229 never flew at all right?
the one guy's thing says that it saw combat when the factory was overrun, but by who? and he says that the Me109Z flew after being hit by a bomb. that is not techinicly "FLYING" is it?

sorry for my Noob questions and bad spelling, so flame away at me.

berg417448
09-29-2006, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Stuka_lover:


The Go 229 never flew at all right?
the one guy's thing says that it saw combat when the factory was overrun, but by who? and he says that the Me109Z flew after being hit by a bomb. that is not techinicly "FLYING" is it?

sorry for my Noob questions and bad spelling, so flame away at me.


Those references to BF-109Z and Go-229 are a joke. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The real Go-229 flew a couple of hours of test flights before being destroyed in a crash.

Stuka_lover
09-29-2006, 08:03 PM
oh, i was told that the Go 229 never flew at all, because of a lack of engines, the Me109Z I never heard of untill i saw the post about it. Thanks!

Texas LongHorn
10-01-2006, 08:57 AM
Yep, the Horten Brothers Go-229 flew in Jan 1945 and was extremly succusful. The project was only stopped because the plant at Friedrichsroda was overrun by the US troops. Really cool plane. All the best, LongHorn

Akronnick
10-01-2006, 10:24 PM
F-86 was the last American fighter armed with .50 HMG. F-100 had 4x20mm cannon, and starting with F-104, six barreled 20mm Vulcan cannon was the standard. M61A1, now that's a gun!

Stuka_lover
10-07-2006, 05:04 PM
actually, the A4 had 2 Mark 12 20mm cannons in the wings and the F4 did not have a gun at all. they had to add a gunpod under the centerline hardpoint to give it one. I think it was a Vulcan though...


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif
I hate this computer
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

VW-IceFire
10-07-2006, 06:03 PM
Should also be noted that the F-86 had 6 M3 .50cal machine guns which had a high muzzle velocity and fire rate.

I think with the F-4, earlier versions had to be modified with the vulcan in a gun pod. Later editions came with it as standard. I had thought anyways.

berg417448
10-07-2006, 06:16 PM
The first USAF version of the F-4 with an internal 20mm gun was the F-4E. AFAIK the USN never did have a version with an internal gun. At least, I never saw one.

Akronnick
10-07-2006, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Stuka_lover:
actually, the A4 had 2 Mark 12 20mm cannons in the wings and the F4 did not have a gun at all. they had to add a gunpod under the centerline hardpoint to give it one. I think it was a Vulcan though...



A-4 was an attack plane, not a fighter. And while it is true that the F-4 did not have a gun at first, the F-4E for the USAF, The F-4EJ built under license by Mitsubishi for the JASDF and the F-4F for the West German Luftwaffe did have an internal M61A1 mounted in the nose. The USAF F-4G Wild Weasle's that were converted from F-4E's had their guns removed to make room for RHAW equipment.

They even added a Gun to the F-106A after the AIR-2 Genie Nuclear Air-to-air Rocket was retired. It was carried in the aft half of the weapons bay with the ammo drum where the Genie used to be, between the aft pair of AIM-4's and the gun itself was slung below the weapons bay covered by a fairing.

Klemm.co
10-08-2006, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:


The .50cals are a deadly weapon in the hands of those who can hit their targets with them. I know plenty who have the practice and skill with them and no plane is immune to going up like a roman candle when hit with a sufficient quantity of .50cal bursts. Usually this in the 1-2 second range of solid burst at convergence. Zeros and other Japanese fighters tend to light up within 1 second of being hit...some of them explode in the first shot. German planes tend to take longer but will be crippled.

.50cals will generally not rip wings off. Most of the time, those wings falling off on the gun camera footage happen because the target aircraft has been struck repeatedly or because something exploded. The famous FW190 footage exploding and shearing the wing off...those .50cals hit the cannon ammo box which is not modeled in this sim. What .50cal does do really well is hitting stuff inside of the plane (thus the armor piercing bullets). It'll go through engine blocks, fuel tanks, and other important bits of the plane inside.


Try hitting a P 51 or P 47 or whatever you like with 4 20mm cannons with a 2- or 3 second burst at convergence. I don't think there'll be much left of your target, except if it is a big bomber like the B 17 or B29.
Although with 20mm's you don't need a 3-second burst to destroy your target, most times when i hit the vital parts like you said i should do with the 50's, i only need a half or quarter second burst if most bullets hit.

Granted, the 50 cal has more ammo, but with the FW 190 you got more ammo than you need most times. And deflection shots are also very much more lethal with the MG 151/20. I repeatedly popped some wings of hurricanes and P-40's with one or two bullets hitting the wing. Try that with the 50's.

Some planes burn real nice when hit by 50's in the right place with a half sec defl. shot too, but you got to actually HIT the right place, the 20 mm's got some collateral damage. That is the cause why the Bf-109 can shoot down planes with 1 MG 151/20. Altough with that one 20mm you got to hit the right places too, but thats not so hard because of no convergence.

I find the 50's ok when right used, but 20mm's used the same way are much more lethal. I think you get my point.

NAFP_supah
10-08-2006, 11:12 AM
Hi guys, to illustrate the F-4 Phantom Gun discussion. The Navy indeed never had a version that had an internally mounted gun. Seen here a F-4J from the navy

http://supah.chaotic.nl/profiles/f-4j/F-4J-155800_VF-96_NG100_Showtime-100-800.jpg

USAF F-4C/D's shared the same nose arrangement. After the C/D's the USAF developed the F-4E

http://supah.chaotic.nl/profiles/f-4e/F-4E_SP_74-1044_480TFS_tn.jpg

A F-4E from Spangdahlem AFB in germany showing the fairing under the nose in which the Cannon was located. That fairing was later used in the F-4G to house sensors to help it in its role of a SAM hunter/killer.

http://supah.chaotic.nl/profiles/f-4g/F-4G_69212_SP_52FW-800.jpg

A F-4G again from Spangdahlem AFB http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Finally a look at a M61A1 Cannon

http://supah.chaotic.nl/foto/100805-mlm/m61a1med.jpg

Sillius_Sodus
10-10-2006, 01:17 PM
Re gun equipped jets: The Northrop F-5 also had two 20mm guns in the nose. Colts I think.

Good hunting,
Sillius_Sodus