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Adam906
05-11-2006, 01:25 AM
Has anyone else ever noticed just how often the radio op "dies" in a B-17? I'm currently flying my way through Defense of Berlin in a 190 and usually follow the pattern of head-on attack followed by sharp pull up to gain altitude for a high diving pass on a bomber followed by a sharp pull up and let loose the rockets from underneath and spray some lead before dropping away and moving ahead to turn around and start all over again.

I've taken to scrolling through all the mess and checking out the bombers as they go down and almost all the time the radio-op goes down with the plane. Why is this so when the other AI gunners are just so damn hard to kill? Taking a head on pass at a B-17 is bound to pot someone up front out of action.. I took a 17 out with a head on pass (flammed is two starboard engines) and set my a/c to autopilot while I watch just who got out. Given I was coming across from his 1.30 (as opposed to dead on - pardon the pun) I was sure some of all the lead I sent his way would have found its way into the nose and knocked out either bombadier or navigator, but nothing. The only guy who doesn't bail is the radio-op.

I mean, wth?!?!

As an experiment I tried a quick mission against a dozen B-17s and set myself to invincible (or perhaps I should say AI gunner) and went diving through the formation without firing guns and just ramming the bombers and lopping off wings. Being "shot down" this way all the guys get out - so how is it so that when being shot at it almost always ends up with the radioman dead? The only thing I can think of is maybe it is scripted that the first gunner to die is replaced by the radio guy, but then a)this would probably be hard, and b)there's only one radioman so it doesn't explain the continualy fire from all gunners..

If this thing gets read by those in the know, hopefully they can provide an answer and while I'm at it - can we have a "dazed" period for gunners. If I shoot into the waist - I might not kill outright the gunner, but I'm sure going to put him off his task for a little bit - same with all other positions. If a gunners position is hit (regardless of amount) if he isn't killed, he is "stunned" and he does not fire for perhaps 10 seconds, then his skill level drops to rookie for a another 10 seconds then he goes back to normal. I can't imagine this would be too hard to programme...

Anyway

Crash_Moses
05-11-2006, 08:22 AM
The groundcrew AI is porked. They don't load enough parachutes into the plane before takeoff.

Treetop64
05-12-2006, 01:11 AM
I hear ya, Adam.

With the exception of the gunners in the He111, the AI gunners exibit some form of invincibility, it seems. Even the conspicuously exposed ones, like the tail gunner on the Betty bombers. Hell, especially the tail gunners on the Betty bombers! I have yet to kill a Betty AI tail gunner, and I've shot down countless Betties from the rear.

There were many, many times when I deliberately concentrated on shooting at only the tail section of a Betty, solely for the purpose of seeing if I can kill the rear gunner. Each time my plane and I were eating bullets and cannon shells like it was Thanksgiving. I figured, "If I'm getting hammered like this, then the gunner whom I'm deliberately trying to kill MUST be toast, right?"

...nope.

Each and every time I've ever attempted, I fly away in a thick trail of smoke, whilst the gunner is still gleefully plugging away at me, and still scoring hits. By the way, his aircraft's tail section is all but gone from my attempts, but he's still sitting back there, smiling at me, confident in his apparent invincibility.

As stated earlier in this post however, taking out the gunners on the He111 seems much more achievable, and more plausible for that matter. There have been times where I went absolutely medieval on one He111 in a formation, and before it hit the ground I noted that every, or nearly every gunner was slumped over dead. This was confirmed by the fact that guns on that craft were no longer firing at me, no matter how long I stayed close to it.

Apparently, that B-17 radioman didn't go to the same gunner's school as the rest of them AI gunners, eh?

Dean3238
05-12-2006, 07:11 AM
I can see it now...

Sgt: Listen up, knobs! Here are your assignments.

Pvt Johnson: Tail Gunner
Pvt Smith: Waist Gunner
PFC Carlson: Ball Turret

Pvt Snuffy: Radio Operator... you poor bast*ard.

(Must be kinda like showing up in a red shirt on a Star Trek episode.)

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Dean

joeap
05-12-2006, 07:37 AM
Well, as far as gunnery effectivness that position was pretty useless except against attacks from above. IRL of course. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Mercwolf2
05-12-2006, 08:57 AM
The radio waste gunner is just behind the engine so look at deflection when shooting at the engines. In reality the tail gunner usually was the first to go then the radio operator

mrsiCkstar
05-12-2006, 12:26 PM
can I just ask how do you know it's the radio op who always dies and doesn't bail out? I mean they all look the same when they get out of the plane.

I'm seriously wondering lol.

general_kalle
05-12-2006, 01:25 PM
historically it was the tail gunner to die first
and if u send a burst into the open front of the B17 then both bombadier and navigator should die..
the radio man shoulndt sid at his radio seat when in battle cos he was sent to fire the guns pointing 11'o clock or 1'o clock at least he does that in the mighty eight game

Hoatee
05-12-2006, 02:05 PM
No mention has been made of the skill level of the gunner(z) in question - ace, veteran, average, rookie?

actionhank1786
05-12-2006, 02:46 PM
You can tell who makes it out, and who doesn't by who's left in the plane after everyone else jumps ship.

Gumtree
05-12-2006, 05:55 PM
Just because the Radio operator stays in the plane sending out a May-Day to help in the recovery of his fellow flight crew you think the game is porked.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

It is quite obvious that the Radio op is picked for his bravery and cool headness, this is why he stays in the plane.He is such a patriot that he refuses to be interned as a POW and would rather go down with the plane.

This is in direct contrast with some cowardly crews who seem to bail the moment they get sprinkled with half a doz .303 in the wing tip. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

_VR_ScorpionWorm
05-13-2006, 05:29 PM
To put you at ease, its an error with the flight crew bailout sequence, try taking up an HE111 and bailing, you will see the ventral and dorsal turret gunners slump over and die, yet when you count the chutes, all are there.

Must have something to do with AI that hang out in the middle of aircraft doing nothing... musta been sleeping.

Z4K
05-14-2006, 04:01 AM
The radio man in the B-17 is still there in the static aircraft model.

You can have a look at any parked B-17 and there he is, reading a magazine... for the articles, of course.

SPLASH_1
05-14-2006, 06:30 AM
If you watch the movie Memphis Belle the only crew member who gets wounded it the radio operator. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh and a flask of tomato soup

So the game must be correct (except for the soup,although this was it the original il2) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WTE_Galway
05-15-2006, 08:46 PM
Soup in IL2 is undermodelled

Maraz_5SA
05-16-2006, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by mrsiCkstar:
can I just ask how do you know it's the radio op who always dies and doesn't bail out? I mean they all look the same when they get out of the plane.

I'm seriously wondering lol.

I noticed that, probably he is not dead, only the bail-out animation is missing.

Or maybe he forgot home his parachute http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Maraz