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View Full Version : FW-190 issues, once more in a clear thread



XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:07 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zwfga

This thread is great - but soooooooooooo big that nobody cares about it. I did a summary somewhere in it, and it seemed good to some guys.

<hr>

The bad forward visibility was for taxiing. That's also in Obj viewer. External model has this downward pointing... but not the cockpit. I hope they'll put up the Revi at least a bit on all FWs like it's on the Ta-152 WIP screenshot. [<- this case is closed already... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif ]

As for the Revi: It's specialness was it's not a projection (!), but a reflection. Don't fool yourself by thinking there's some crosshair projected on that little screen. That screen is a mirror which you also can look through. SO just glass /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . In that mirror you see the crosshair which is "in" the box below that lens. That's why the crosshair's size won't change what ever your distance to the Revi is.

As for the Kommandoger√¬§t, I think there's a big error in the prop. Mix is fine. It is Auto, but still controllable. US planes had this, too: Idle Cutoff - Auto Lean - Auto Rich - Full Rich. The same should be on 109s BTW. Automation is just between those two "Auto" states and in between. Now the prop in A and Fs is just a constant speed prop instead of Auto variable one. I'd say some P-# fighters have a similar modelling error /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . For example the 39 and 47 have manual control + auto switch including control over auto set rpm. But that's not just a constat speed prop.

Now the FW: Speeds are bit too high for late ones but that's also the case with many other fighters. But there's an issue with speed in certain alts. All FWs perform best @ sea level and supercharger alt and higher. Between sea level and supercharger alt it's getting slower every m you climb. That's bullsh. It should get faster until ~500m before charger alt. Then it's speed would not change until the boost is back. But no speed drop. This issue makes FWs looking really old besides other planes in 1000-3000m alt.

Climb is an issue on the same point. Above charger alt it seems pretty much right, but the initial climb for especially the later models is too low and it's dropping up to charger alt.

Turn is something special. It's of course not as good as 109 in sustained turns. Let me summarise it based on facts I've read all over the time. As the speed at which the turn is done rises, the FW turns better in relation to 109. Up to 400kmh it's definetly worse, but it should be able to do sharper turns as Bf-109 in speeds above 400-450. So the FW can turn well, but due to her high wing load she'll bleed energy that much that she falls down in speed regions where 109s are superior turn fighters.

That one is linked to the bricky elevators. More elevator would give us better turns. Think of 262 high speed turns, not as excessive, with the FW's energy bleed. There you are. Controls get heavier @ high speeds, but they still are comparable light.

The gun effect is on fix list as all thingys below 37mm are off according to Oleg.

And I also hope for some proper loadouts. Big bombs (SC1000, 1800 - F-8), Rockets (Panzerschreck, Panzerblitz I & II - F-8, R4M - Dora) and of course lightened FWs with less guns without bombrack (for A-4 and 5).

So this should give us a decent 190 which won't be uber /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . And note that this turn fighting isn't realistic at all. No human beeing can sustain those 15 minute close to blackout turn fights. Just to say they didn't use the planes' ability to turn so well really /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . Call it fatigue.

<hr>

For questions, just read the whole thread... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif It's ALL in there.

Ah yes, -> IBTL. Snoopy won't let this one last long.


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%;filter:glow[color=#33CCFF,strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

<script>var specwin=window;function openspecs(){specwin=window.open("http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/specs.htm", "specs", "hotkeys=0,width=640,height=480,left=64,top=64,scro llbars=yes");}</script>Die olle Rechenkiste vom noch olleren Willey (java_script: openspecs[))

<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Seit <script>var eventdate=new Date("March 20, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*-24));document.write(count);</script> Tagen<sup>*</sup> gibts Il-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
BTW: In <script>var eventdate=new Date("June 21, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*24));document.write(count);</script> Tag(en) gibt's das n√¬§chste Development Update von Oleg Maddox, wenn alles schiefl√¬§uft /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<font size="1"><sup>*</sup> In Europa . In den USA gabs FB schon 16 Tage vorher am 4.3. Link (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkyee)</font></font></p><script>c0="#000000";c1="#400000";c2="#000040";c3="#000050";c4="#000060";c5="#000070";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-3].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-4].bgColor=c2;if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor=c3;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-9].bgColor=c5;}else{a[a.length-5].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c5;};image="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/bar1.jpg";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+image+")";oa.backgroundPosition="left center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat";var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/transparent36.gif";o.height=36;o.width=36;a=document.all.tags["td");for[i=0;i<a.length;i++)if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf["Willey")!=-1)ii=i;a[ii+2].innerHTML="Focke-Wulf Testpilot";</script><font color=000040>

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:07 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zwfga

This thread is great - but soooooooooooo big that nobody cares about it. I did a summary somewhere in it, and it seemed good to some guys.

<hr>

The bad forward visibility was for taxiing. That's also in Obj viewer. External model has this downward pointing... but not the cockpit. I hope they'll put up the Revi at least a bit on all FWs like it's on the Ta-152 WIP screenshot. [<- this case is closed already... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif ]

As for the Revi: It's specialness was it's not a projection (!), but a reflection. Don't fool yourself by thinking there's some crosshair projected on that little screen. That screen is a mirror which you also can look through. SO just glass /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . In that mirror you see the crosshair which is "in" the box below that lens. That's why the crosshair's size won't change what ever your distance to the Revi is.

As for the Kommandoger√¬§t, I think there's a big error in the prop. Mix is fine. It is Auto, but still controllable. US planes had this, too: Idle Cutoff - Auto Lean - Auto Rich - Full Rich. The same should be on 109s BTW. Automation is just between those two "Auto" states and in between. Now the prop in A and Fs is just a constant speed prop instead of Auto variable one. I'd say some P-# fighters have a similar modelling error /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . For example the 39 and 47 have manual control + auto switch including control over auto set rpm. But that's not just a constat speed prop.

Now the FW: Speeds are bit too high for late ones but that's also the case with many other fighters. But there's an issue with speed in certain alts. All FWs perform best @ sea level and supercharger alt and higher. Between sea level and supercharger alt it's getting slower every m you climb. That's bullsh. It should get faster until ~500m before charger alt. Then it's speed would not change until the boost is back. But no speed drop. This issue makes FWs looking really old besides other planes in 1000-3000m alt.

Climb is an issue on the same point. Above charger alt it seems pretty much right, but the initial climb for especially the later models is too low and it's dropping up to charger alt.

Turn is something special. It's of course not as good as 109 in sustained turns. Let me summarise it based on facts I've read all over the time. As the speed at which the turn is done rises, the FW turns better in relation to 109. Up to 400kmh it's definetly worse, but it should be able to do sharper turns as Bf-109 in speeds above 400-450. So the FW can turn well, but due to her high wing load she'll bleed energy that much that she falls down in speed regions where 109s are superior turn fighters.

That one is linked to the bricky elevators. More elevator would give us better turns. Think of 262 high speed turns, not as excessive, with the FW's energy bleed. There you are. Controls get heavier @ high speeds, but they still are comparable light.

The gun effect is on fix list as all thingys below 37mm are off according to Oleg.

And I also hope for some proper loadouts. Big bombs (SC1000, 1800 - F-8), Rockets (Panzerschreck, Panzerblitz I & II - F-8, R4M - Dora) and of course lightened FWs with less guns without bombrack (for A-4 and 5).

So this should give us a decent 190 which won't be uber /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . And note that this turn fighting isn't realistic at all. No human beeing can sustain those 15 minute close to blackout turn fights. Just to say they didn't use the planes' ability to turn so well really /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . Call it fatigue.

<hr>

For questions, just read the whole thread... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif It's ALL in there.

Ah yes, -> IBTL. Snoopy won't let this one last long.


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%;filter:glow[color=#33CCFF,strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

&lt;script>var specwin=window;function openspecs(){specwin=window.open("http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/specs.htm", "specs", "hotkeys=0,width=640,height=480,left=64,top=64,scro llbars=yes");}</script>Die olle Rechenkiste vom noch olleren Willey (java_script: openspecs[))

<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Seit &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("March 20, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*-24));document.write(count);</script> Tagen<sup>*</sup> gibts Il-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
BTW: In &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("June 21, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*24));document.write(count);</script> Tag(en) gibt's das n√¬§chste Development Update von Oleg Maddox, wenn alles schiefl√¬§uft /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<font size="1"><sup>*</sup> In Europa . In den USA gabs FB schon 16 Tage vorher am 4.3. Link (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkyee)</font></font></p>&lt;script>c0="#000000";c1="#400000";c2="#000040";c3="#000050";c4="#000060";c5="#000070";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-3].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-4].bgColor=c2;if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor=c3;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-9].bgColor=c5;}else{a[a.length-5].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c5;};image="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/bar1.jpg";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+image+")";oa.backgroundPosition="left center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat";var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/transparent36.gif";o.height=36;o.width=36;a=document.all.tags["td");for[i=0;i<a.length;i++)if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf["Willey")!=-1)ii=i;a[ii+2].innerHTML="Focke-Wulf Testpilot";</script><font color=000040>

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:11 PM
Willey, just a question -



are you bored?



to much time on hand?


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:12 PM
Very good summary /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


" and of course lightened FWs with less guns without bombrack (for A-4 and 5)."


I would like to ask the same for the A-9.

Variant with no outer wing cannons and with the maniability of the F-8 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Variant with two Mk.108 but without fuselage machine guns.



Also why not a F-9, it's just a F-8 but with a A-9 engine!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:14 PM
leonid - just a question. Why the hell aren't you on the german board anymore?? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif lol

Were'nt there also 190A-9s with just 2 20mm and 2 30mm, so no 13mms??


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%;filter:glow[color=#33CCFF,strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

&lt;script>var specwin=window;function openspecs(){specwin=window.open("http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/specs.htm", "specs", "hotkeys=0,width=640,height=480,left=64,top=64,scro llbars=yes");}</script>Die olle Rechenkiste vom noch olleren Willey (java_script: openspecs[))

<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Seit &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("March 20, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*-24));document.write(count);</script> Tagen<sup>*</sup> gibts Il-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
BTW: In &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("June 21, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*24));document.write(count);</script> Tag(en) gibt's das n√¬§chste Development Update von Oleg Maddox, wenn alles schiefl√¬§uft /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<font size="1"><sup>*</sup> In Europa . In den USA gabs FB schon 16 Tage vorher am 4.3. Link (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkyee)</font></font></p>&lt;script>c0="#000000";c1="#400000";c2="#000040";c3="#000050";c4="#000060";c5="#000070";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-3].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-4].bgColor=c2;if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor=c3;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-9].bgColor=c5;}else{a[a.length-5].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c5;};image="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/bar1.jpg";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+image+")";oa.backgroundPosition="left center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat";var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/transparent36.gif";o.height=36;o.width=36;a=document.all.tags["td");for[i=0;i<a.length;i++)if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf["Willey")!=-1)ii=i;a[ii+2].innerHTML="Focke-Wulf Testpilot";</script><font color=000040>

Message Edited on 06/16/0301:15PM by Willey

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:15 PM
"Willey, just a question -



are you bored?



to much time on hand?"



It didn't take long time for the "locking-topics" specialists to come /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:19 PM
Another one:

http://www.rafiger.de/Homepage/Pages/Schiessfibel.html
(Download link at the bottomn)
There'S one example for 109G-5/6' and 190A-6' ammo counters. (G-6 gunpod lights/FW counters only wing guns)

Ammo counters in FW-190 are totally wrong. Furthermore they just lack ammunition. Here are the counts

A-5 and newer:
inner 151/20 - 250 instead of 200rpg

A-5:
outer MG FF/M - 90 instead of 60rpg.


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%;filter:glow[color=#33CCFF,strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

&lt;script>var specwin=window;function openspecs(){specwin=window.open("http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/specs.htm", "specs", "hotkeys=0,width=640,height=480,left=64,top=64,scro llbars=yes");}</script>Die olle Rechenkiste vom noch olleren Willey (java_script: openspecs[))

<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Seit &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("March 20, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*-24));document.write(count);</script> Tagen<sup>*</sup> gibts Il-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
BTW: In &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("June 21, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*24));document.write(count);</script> Tag(en) gibt's das n√¬§chste Development Update von Oleg Maddox, wenn alles schiefl√¬§uft /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<font size="1"><sup>*</sup> In Europa . In den USA gabs FB schon 16 Tage vorher am 4.3. Link (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkyee)</font></font></p>&lt;script>c0="#000000";c1="#400000";c2="#000040";c3="#000050";c4="#000060";c5="#000070";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-3].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-4].bgColor=c2;if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor=c3;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-9].bgColor=c5;}else{a[a.length-5].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c5;};image="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/bar1.jpg";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+image+")";oa.backgroundPosition="left center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat";var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/transparent36.gif";o.height=36;o.width=36;a=document.all.tags["td");for[i=0;i<a.length;i++)if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf["Willey")!=-1)ii=i;a[ii+2].innerHTML="Focke-Wulf Testpilot";</script><font color=000040>

Message Edited on 06/16/0301:20PM by Willey

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:20 PM
CHDT wrote:
- "Willey, just a question -
-
-
-
- are you bored?
-
-
-
- to much time on hand?"
-
-
-
- It didn't take long time for the "locking-topics"
- specialists to come /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



There you got me CHDT.

Guilty as charged.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


But then again, I simply don`t get it.

Its like you guys WANT to provocate agressive reactions.

Part of the problem. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:29 PM
"Its like you guys WANT to provocate agressive reactions."


That's what I can call an "intention lawsuit" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

No, frankly, I don't understand how a pic or a document can provocate agressive reactions except of course with natural agressive people /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


By the way, just have a look at my own "reasonable" but nevertheless locked "190 visibility topic":

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zvznv&tpage=1


"Hi all,

No problem for me, the 3d modeling of the 190 cockpit looks perfectly accurate..."

Was that so agressive from myself? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:32 PM
But again, this discussion has nothing to do with the topic, so I work for your own hidden agenda if I continue to discuss that. So, I'm out /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:35 PM
I really don't see the point of yet another FW190 thread, the thread that was started by Oleg maddox is sufficient, he has responded in that thread today why dilute the subject by allowing multiple threads?


<fontsize=2>Unofficial IL-2 Community FAQ (http://mudmovers.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ.htm)
<fontsize=2>Hunter82's Tech Pages (http://mudmovers.com/tech/tech_pages.htm)

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:36 PM
CHDT, you know very well what I`m talking about, so please don`t play the stupid.

The pure number of 190-threads is just boring and annoying.
As I said, part of the problem.


This thread will see a lock for sure.

Willey knows that, he mentioned it in his original post himself.

So my question in my initial post had a very well reason.


If you guys want to pi** off other people AND the mods, then continue to post further 190-threads twice a day.

Simple like that.



Message Edited on 06/16/0312:37PM by leonid05

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:54 PM
I see a pinocchio has shown up./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Did not take long.

Willey I would say that 500m height is closer to 1000m. Being 800m @ 1.42ata(TO&E) and 1400m with dynamic air pressure. (from a BMW801D chart) The output then drops slowly til ~3km where it increases slightly until 6km where power then drops off quickly.

According to a Fw190A-8 chart the time to 6km should be 6.8min. That is with full tanks (525 +115) without ETC 501 rack and @ 1.58/1.65 ata, 2700rpm on the engine. A/c also had cracks filled and was polished.

To use the 1800kg bomb the a/c had to be modified and only long hard surface runways could be used.

"I never saw the Me109 with the black heart again. I mention the Me109 with the black heart and "200" written on the tail."
Me109G-14 of Erich Hartmann

http://www.yeowell19.freeserve.co.uk/hartmanncs_1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:55 PM
IATL


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<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

&lt;script>var specwin=window;function openspecs(){specwin=window.open("http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/specs.htm", "specs", "hotkeys=0,width=640,height=480,left=64,top=64,scro llbars=yes");}</script>Die olle Rechenkiste vom noch olleren Willey (java_script: openspecs[))

<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Seit &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("March 20, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*-24));document.write(count);</script> Tagen<sup>*</sup> gibts Il-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
BTW: In &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("June 21, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*24));document.write(count);</script> Tag(en) gibt's das n√¬§chste Development Update von Oleg Maddox, wenn alles schiefl√¬§uft /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<font size="1"><sup>*</sup> In Europa . In den USA gabs FB schon 16 Tage vorher am 4.3. Link (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkyee)</font></font></p>&lt;script>c0="#000000";c1="#400000";c2="#000040";c3="#000050";c4="#000060";c5="#000070";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-3].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-4].bgColor=c2;if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor=c3;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-9].bgColor=c5;}else{a[a.length-5].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c5;};image="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/bar1.jpg";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+image+")";oa.backgroundPosition="left center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat";var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/transparent36.gif";o.height=36;o.width=36;a=document.all.tags["td");for[i=0;i<a.length;i++)if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf["Willey")!=-1)ii=i;a[ii+2].innerHTML="Focke-Wulf Testpilot";</script><font color=000040>

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 01:06 PM
Seems any discussion about refutting the so called proof has to be buried deep in the original thread instead of out in the open./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

"I never saw the Me109 with the black heart again. I mention the Me109 with the black heart and "200" written on the tail."
Me109G-14 of Erich Hartmann

http://www.yeowell19.freeserve.co.uk/hartmanncs_1.jpg