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View Full Version : Novice question:FW190 A5 Vs A8 &A9?



XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:22 AM
Hi all
It seems to me that the A5a is much more easy to fly and maneuver than A8 and A9 models,I know ther'r weight and power differences but are these factors the sole reason?
and was the flight characteristic difference so large in reality?
I'm asking also because it isn't mentioned in Mudmuvers from OCT'2nd that the future patch will include review of
FW190 performance.
Please advice
Thanks in advance
gprr

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:22 AM
Hi all
It seems to me that the A5a is much more easy to fly and maneuver than A8 and A9 models,I know ther'r weight and power differences but are these factors the sole reason?
and was the flight characteristic difference so large in reality?
I'm asking also because it isn't mentioned in Mudmuvers from OCT'2nd that the future patch will include review of
FW190 performance.
Please advice
Thanks in advance
gprr

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:31 AM
Just to add to your observation, I too find the A5 to be the best overall Fw.190 in IL2:FB. The rest are good but not good enough for a non-expert to do well in online.

Here's another novice question: I can't seem to get anything but pitch trim to work on the Fw.190. Nothing I do seems to get trim working at all for roll and yaw. It is very annoying to be forced to bleed speed unnecessarily and constantly fight the aircraft to make it fly straight. I think many of my engagements where I end up dead could have gone the other way if I had been able to trim to a cleaner state. Any help is appreciated. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:43 AM
from historical POV the FW190 had no pitch for ROLL. These things were set before (by engineer or factory during trial flights etc.)

However, in the sim my plane tends to roll right all the time (i even got used to it... lol)
At first I thought i may be the inertia from engine.
Itw asn't so with other planes.
Then I thought it's calibration. But again I don't witness it in other planes.

On the other side I hear people that fly not facing this situation. ODD and most perturbatory.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Disclaimer:
No forward view was obscured during the creation of this post...
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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:21 AM
Easy answer: There was no roll and yaw trim controllable from the cockpit on the FW190. The trim on these axis were set on the ground.
Must have been tiring in a climb.....

"See, Decide, Attack, Reverse or Coffee Break" E.H.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:41 AM
EFG_Zeb wrote:
- Easy answer: There was no roll and yaw trim
- controllable from the cockpit on the FW190. The trim
- on these axis were set on the ground.
- Must have been tiring in a climb.....


I see....but what about those trim tabs? You mean to say that those were set to a particular amount of deflection and tightened down on the ground? That would seem pointless to me, as the control surface itself could on almost all aircraft be deflected/adjusted to a certain degree and set there without the addition of trim tabs. I see trim tabs on the Rudder:



http://www.stormbirds.com/experten/images/yellow15_2.jpg


And also on the Ailerons:



http://home.mit.bme.hu/~tade/ac-pict/Hung-AF/pre-1945/Fw190/F190fus64.jpg


What are they for, if not to clean the AC up in flight?

I'm now thoroughly confused. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:45 AM
hi,

they were adjusted on the ground prior to flight. these small trim tabs exist on several planes, like my cessna and piper as well.

cheers

plébános

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:00 PM
Someone once posted an article about the tabs settings. They were in fact set on the ground and adjusted to a certain speed. I just dont remember if it was cruising or 100% throttle.

But indeed, they were fixed, and not adjustable in flight. That's why LW pilots had such strong arms and legs, keeping the things flying straight! LOL

CH Products should thank 1C for modeling this correctly, it was the sole reason I bought rudder pedals! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:05 PM
I see....

Ok then, on that note, does anyone know what the ingame Fw's are trimmed for?

In order to avoid confusion, respond with manifold pressure readings as well as throttle settings to avoid any confusion as a result of game controller discrepancies.

Thanks for the response and information thus far. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:31 PM
Hello you all FW190 experts
It is a bump
Was the FW190A5 realy better than A8 & A9 and even D9 in terms of FM-stabillity and maneuverabillity?like it is in FB.
Please help
gprr

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 08:42 PM
The A5 is a good plane for early servers. The power/armament on the A9 is better on late servers. The A9 is my favorite 190.

I guess i'm one of the lucky ones. Except for pitch, I don't need to trim the 190 at any speed. I can trim roll on the CH Fighterstick. It has a mechanical trim, that trims the pot, but I never have to use it unless I have damage.

Anybody with a Cougar can trim all controls too. I believe that's what Oleg uses../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:23 PM
The Fw-190A9 is the best of them in my oppinion. Sure the A5 is slightly more manueverable but turn fighting in any Fw-190 version borders on suicide so it makes no real difference. The A9 is more than 20km/h faster at SL, climbs faster and is better armed. In late war or unlimited servers the A9 is my ride of choice. However the A5 is the second best fighter in 1943 in my oppinion. Only the La-5FN is better. So the A5 is also one of my favorites, but only in 1943 servers /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

Message Edited on 10/08/0301:39PM by Maj_Death

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:05 AM
Don't have my sources at hand right now, and I'm very poor about the Fw190 when it comes to knowledge, but If I remember it correctly, the A-5 and the A-8 uses the same BMW engine.

I think the A-5 had a different wing from the A-8, and the A-8 had an extra fuel tank compared to the A-5. Also, MG131s and MG151/20s were installed in the A-8, in place of the MG17 and the MG-FF in the A-5...

That would certainly make the A-5 a more suitable choice as a fighter when compared to the A-8 as it is quite a bit lighter than the latter version. Although the margin in difference may not be big, sometimes the 'feel' of even the slightest comfort in handling, certainly helps /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Now the A-9.. if the real life specs were really as calculated in FB stats, the A-9 will be certainly the best of the three.



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ZG77_Nagual
10-08-2003, 01:18 AM
I agree, a9 then a5

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 03:47 AM
To offset that little roll that you experience (I get it too)...I usually trim my rudder a bit. It seems to offset it for the most part.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 04:21 AM
Ice,

How in the world do you trim the rudder in the 190? It has no rudder trim.

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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:05 AM
Hi all
Thanks for all the information.
gprr

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:44 AM
One thing I noticed is that roll and yaw trim seemed to respond when the Fw is on the ground. In particular, I tried yaw trim while taxiing very slowly across the tarmac on the way to the runway and the plane responded. I'll have to wait till I get home from work to confirm, as I was in a hurry and only tried it once...but it seemed to work, nonetheless.

Heh /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 10/08/0302:45AM by Bully_Lang

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 06:01 PM
Bully,

No it doesn't../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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25th_Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:45 PM
I fixed the roll problem by just calibrating my rudder rocker on my X-45 slightly off. Works fairly well for me. But I do still roll left and right a little. As for the A5 vs A8, I prefer the A8. The performance between the two isn't much different but the A8 is better armed and just feels better to me. The A8 is a little heavier but the difference is marginal. The main differences are the strengthened wing (not modeled /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif ), slightly improved aerodynamics and vastly improved armament.

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 07:51 PM
Armament is everything for me in the 190. I only get quick shots, and I need a lot of fire power. I think that's why I don't like the Dora that much. It has good armament, but nothing like the A series.

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XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 12:19 AM
You are absolutely right Buzz. The trim doesn't work for roll or yaw at all. I must've just mis-interpreted the plane's behavior after playing with the keys. I tried it this afternoon several times. Each time I set what would have been a massive amount of deflection while sitting on the tarmac with the engine off. It doesn't alter the Fw.190's behavior at all.

Hehehehe.....I suppose I better lay off the crack pipe next time.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


Thanks for the clarification Buzz.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Message Edited on 10/08/0307:20PM by Bully_Lang

Buzz_25th
10-09-2003, 12:53 AM
Crack will make the trim work../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 04:41 AM
The entire tailplane (horizontal stabilizer) "incidence" was adjustable from the cockpit on Focke-Wulfs.

There was a dial in the cockpit that controlled a small motor inside the rear fuselage that would move the whole stabilizer a set number of degrees.


<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 09:06 AM
Hi all
I do appereciate the fire power of the A8 and A9 plus the stabillity when firing but I also enjoy very much flying and feeling the plane.
So my cohice of enjoyable and lethal german FB aircraft would be the BF109G2 with 20 mm' canon in the wings.
Cheers
gprr