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XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 09:29 AM
The reason that MW50 should be enabled before selecting more than 100% (really a 1.45ata limit) on the Methanol 109's using B4, is because the air pressure which forces the MW50 through the system has to build-up in the MW tank. Then, when the throttle is moved past 100% a switch opens another solenoid-valve which allows the MW to be sprayed into the supercharger and then the MW pressure gauge would indicate 0.7kg/cm which confirms that the MW is flowing correctly.
The 605DB produces 1850PS using B4+MW or 1800PS using C3 only (not modeled). The 605DC produces 2000PS using C3+MW or 1800PS using C3 only (605DC not modeled).
So, if modeled correctly, you should operate your 109 with 605DB (B4+MW) as follows: After start-up, switch ON MW master switch (MW ENABLED). When opening throttle past 100% (1.45ata) check that MW flows (observe 0.7kg/cm on MW pressure gauge). BEWARE: Time limit 10min. Motor temp limits(varies with altitude(0-4km=118*C,THEN decreasing by about 0.5*C perkm). As throttle reduced to give less than 100%( 1.45ata) check MW pressure reduces to 0.0 (flow stopped). IF, MW pressure drops significantly during use (above 1.45ata) then reduce throttle to 100% or less (below 1.45ata).
Hope this helps!
BTW, if MW pressure gauge is not modeled, you have no way of telling if MW is working or exhausted!(Total MW available=26min.(so use the clock!)).
Regards SM

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 09:29 AM
The reason that MW50 should be enabled before selecting more than 100% (really a 1.45ata limit) on the Methanol 109's using B4, is because the air pressure which forces the MW50 through the system has to build-up in the MW tank. Then, when the throttle is moved past 100% a switch opens another solenoid-valve which allows the MW to be sprayed into the supercharger and then the MW pressure gauge would indicate 0.7kg/cm which confirms that the MW is flowing correctly.
The 605DB produces 1850PS using B4+MW or 1800PS using C3 only (not modeled). The 605DC produces 2000PS using C3+MW or 1800PS using C3 only (605DC not modeled).
So, if modeled correctly, you should operate your 109 with 605DB (B4+MW) as follows: After start-up, switch ON MW master switch (MW ENABLED). When opening throttle past 100% (1.45ata) check that MW flows (observe 0.7kg/cm on MW pressure gauge). BEWARE: Time limit 10min. Motor temp limits(varies with altitude(0-4km=118*C,THEN decreasing by about 0.5*C perkm). As throttle reduced to give less than 100%( 1.45ata) check MW pressure reduces to 0.0 (flow stopped). IF, MW pressure drops significantly during use (above 1.45ata) then reduce throttle to 100% or less (below 1.45ata).
Hope this helps!
BTW, if MW pressure gauge is not modeled, you have no way of telling if MW is working or exhausted!(Total MW available=26min.(so use the clock!)).
Regards SM

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 03:12 PM
thank

when right rememember, oleg has say you rebuild plane engine


that right?


Message Edited on 08/03/0305:13PM by Skalgrim

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 04:25 PM
Yes Skalgrim, including 605A and 605D.
sm

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 04:30 PM
Btw Chris i got some Mollier diagrams for both MW-0 and MW-50 as well as a report comparing both.
Did you got my email regarding 213A and 213E docs ?

The description you provided is right for most of the MW-50 planes except for those using the reconverted KGM-1 system (G-6/U2 for instance) as MW-50 injection was in the later case manual not throttle linked.


Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 04:48 PM
Hi Butch! Yes,and many thanks!!
No problem with earlier system. However,the question about selecting the system ON is simply answered by the fact that the air pressure in the MW tank had to build-up before using more than 100% (only a short time I think).
Regards SM

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:03 PM
Yes in both system there was a swithc for that use, on the earlier system pressure was provided through bottles in the wings, while on later systems air from the supercharger was used.
According to my MW-50 instructions the only pre-requisites before pushing the throttle past 100% were : throttle set to 1.3ata and MW-50 pressure between 3.5 and 4.5 atü.

Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:15 PM
Sure! The higher pressure would act more quickly than the lower pressure used in the latter system (tapped off from the supercharger).
SM

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 03:56 AM
Very interesting informaton SM, thank you much appreciated. Do you know by any chance where I could fine more technical informations regarding DB605 all the variants, especially DB605L.

Thanks...

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 04:26 AM
DB-605L = Total P-51D 0wnage by a K-14




_______________________________
Hauptmann Jochen "Heidi" Heiden
Jagderband 44
www.JagdVerband44.com (http://www.JagdVerband44.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 04:49 AM
BlackJaguar wrote:
- Very interesting informaton SM, thank you much
- appreciated. Do you know by any chance where I could
- fine more technical informations regarding DB605 all
- the variants, especially DB605L.
-
- Thanks...

You'll when i'm finished with my 80+ pages article on the DB605 series, it has been delayed since i'm still waiting for some more info.



Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 04:58 AM
butch2k wrote:
-
- BlackJaguar wrote:
-- Very interesting informaton SM, thank you much
-- appreciated. Do you know by any chance where I could
-- fine more technical informations regarding DB605 all
-- the variants, especially DB605L.
--
-- Thanks...
-
- You'll when i'm finished with my 80+ pages article
- on the DB605 series, it has been delayed since i'm
- still waiting for some more info.
-
-
-
-
- Butch
-

Woow, Butch2k , much time do you think you still need ? Looking forward reading it.

BlackJaguar

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 11:29 AM
Yes BlackJaguar, Butch is working on his 605 technical article! I share alot of details with him. Try using his allaboutwarfare site on ezboard. There is a constant WW2 discussion there!
Regards SM

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 01:26 PM
have read

doras 45 could use 20min mw50,

because engine lifetime was not problem,
they have enough engine



Message Edited on 08/06/0305:05PM by Skalgrim

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 04:09 PM
schwarz-man wrote:
- Yes Skalgrim, including 605A and 605D.
- sm
-

This means you work on the G-6 and G-10 of the Messerscmitt Fundation, isn`t it? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Now that`s some job I would do happily.

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Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
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XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 04:49 PM
Schwarz-man

Thanks for explanation. I just posted a thread some weeks ago about the same thing, asking of the resulting engine damage. (Isegrim surely remember this). There I asked what kind of damage we have to expect in case MW50 is switched ON while the engine in engaged under loads more than maybe 67%. Actually I don't see a problem that would cause in engine troubles while activating MW50 at 2/3 engine max.performance. Could you explain what kind of damage would occure and why there is that strict thing to switch on idle speed??

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EJGr.Ost Kimura



Message Edited on 08/04/0304:50PM by KIMURA

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 09:41 PM
Hi KIMURA! Yes, I agree with you. However, Oleg decides how to write the program. Sometimes he has to decide between old translations and modern interpretation. Believe me, often the original documents are contradictory!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, the main thing about MW was that it MUST be flowing when the ata exceeded 1.45ata. So, the MW master switch had to be enabled before selecting 100%(to allow air pressure to pressurise the MW tank). I do not know the specific limitations that Oleg has put into the "game" MW system.
BTW I have been involved with the flying G-2,G-6 and G-10.
Also, I look forward to the PATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards, SM

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:42 AM
Pressurize the tank??? Why that?? For such dosing mechanism as the MW50 is, it's usual to have in that order - viewed from the charching spot: Injection nozzle, controlled dosing pump, controlled valve, tank with exhaust. Tanks with that kind of filling are ususal very light build of Alu or even plastic without any pressurized layout - save weight.

Can you confirm that?

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"Kimura, tu as une tªte carrée comme un sale boche!"

EJGr.Ost Kimura

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 09:24 AM
It was pressure from the tank that drove the MW-50 to the blower. It was taken from compressed air bottles in the early system (based on KGM-1) or from an air line taken from the compressor. Keep in mind that were are speaking of very low pressure here(3.5-4.5atü), not 150atü.

Note that the early tank as used on the G-6/U2 were of the heavy kind, insollated as they were designed for GM-1 which needed to be kept under -90?C. But later tank as mounted in the 190 or 109 (they used the same model) was made of light alloy.


Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 12:58 PM
Butch2k

Thanx.

Uhmmm do you have some pics of that system - not those drawn sketches, better photos?

BTW I know the difference between high or low pressure systems, but even with low low pressure systems (below 10bar) you need sprecial strong tank layouts - as soon as the difference is bigger than 1 bar.

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"Kimura, tu as une tªte carrée comme un sale boche!"

EJGr.Ost Kimura

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 02:32 PM
KIMURA contact me offboard at :
admin@allaboutwarfare.com
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 04:30 PM
thanx

will pm you that evening

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"Kimura, tu as une tªte carrée comme un sale boche!"

EJGr.Ost Kimura