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XxXN3MES1SXxX
09-12-2010, 01:11 PM
Hey guys! Thought this would be interesting so i'll start!

I use the german's alot due to the all round capability's, the AI are always on Turtle profile as i like to slog out my matches.

My usual tactic is to capture 2/3 supply depot's at the start and build a strong defense of Bunkers and artillery/anti-tank guns, after i capture more depot's and build up a bomber force along with Tiger's. The tiger's are then sent in to take the brunt of my attack whilst the bomber's destroy their different base's! This usually gives me an outright victory but in other cases it will always impede your enemy :-)

Ithilenia
09-13-2010, 04:05 AM
the problem with your tactic in multiplayer is that the enemy, if he or she is smart:

1. scans your movement with recon
2. knows you are going for static approach.
3. secures a flexible frontline to secure more depo's than you. before your tigers come out he has more tanks than you. And before your bombers are coming he has more anti air units covering his tanks.

and than there you sit with 3 depo's running low and maybe with two tigers and 2 bombers, depends how much you spent on bunkers. He has at this time 5 or even 6 depo's, if the map allows it, and a hell of a lot units to pound your defences...

Use your defense as a last line of defense when your units are losing it. Lure the enemy in your AT bunkers.

I hardly build any AT bunkers. I go for quick heavy tank with a lot of medium and Anti air if needed. I drive my enemy back with the pershing or tiger. Most of the time seeing a pershing or a few tigers so early makes my opponent go "What the hell" and surrenders when I finish off his first outpost.

A pershing or tiger needs what? 2 or 3 shot at AT bunker to destroy it? An assault with 2 heavy armor units, 2 medium, 4 anti air, combined with fake ground attack your AT bunkers might shoot at my dummy's while I clear out your bunkers.

But I never fought a heavy turtle opponent with late tiger and bomber strat.

If you are gaming in GMT+1 time lets meet up and test your strat against mine?

PSN: Rhomark.

JamesDSidious
09-13-2010, 04:14 AM
My favourite strategy so far for 1v1 is as follows.


I choose the Italiens.

I start of with 3 depots and a decoy airfield at my main base. next i will camoflage a sector next to my home sector and build an armor base.

by the time the base is build i will have another ruse and put radio silence on the camoflaged sector and spm 7xCarro M13.

then i will push straight for the nearest deopt of the enemy and then the homebase.

with a second radiosilence on a sector next to his base you will go in unnoticed.


i won 100% of my games with italy with this strategy.

armInIuS1988
09-13-2010, 06:32 AM
Siegfried Blockhaus on the right position or recons will screw up your tactic @JamesD

JamesDSidious
09-13-2010, 06:50 AM
Originally posted by armInIuS1988:
Siegfried Blockhaus on the right position or recons will screw up your tactic @JamesD

i know but so far most of my opponents have gone anti air. and with 7 tanks even the sigfried is no problem for me.

i get a problem if someone just ignores my attack and goes for my base when he sees me.

Ithilenia
09-13-2010, 07:43 AM
depends on the map:

go for three or four recon. Recon the entire map, it cost you what (forgot for a minute the cost of a jeep) 40$ ? If I see your carro's are coming a few anti tank units with the recon provided smash up 7 carro.

But its indeed an good early rush tactic. Question is can you adept to the game if your rush does not come through.

For example:

2vs2, multiplayer.
my closest enemy was going for air units. I spam anti air for 10$ and medium tanks.
I hold his bombers off, but then I notice a prototype base and within 3 min or so I get pounded by super heavy arty's. My teammate is sitting there doin' nothing. I go radiosilence, blizz and go for the arty's. But he has probably recon too as my tanks are picked off by bomber fighters and the arty.

End game for me. He arty into my base and pounds everything.

I lost, what I should have done is build second. base and out of his reach and go from there.

But its darn diff to fight heavy arty's protected by loads of figher bombers and recon.

Still have no tactic against it, besides not to let him build a prototype base...

Ghoullio
09-13-2010, 07:59 PM
Im a big fan if those armoered recon units, inthe US build they are the first units listed under the armor tab. Crack a few of those out with those nifty mobile anti-air units ahould out the artillery out long enough to rush in with some medium tanks.

Or target their recon with either artillery units or those nifty rocket artillery guys. Theyll blast the recons enough to get them moving bwck while you attack with fast moving units.

Once you blind your enemy, you should be able to win.

MaDeToFaDe
09-13-2010, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Ithilenia:
depends on the map:

go for three or four recon. Recon the entire map, it cost you what (forgot for a minute the cost of a jeep) 40$ ? If I see your carro's are coming a few anti tank units with the recon provided smash up 7 carro.

But its indeed an good early rush tactic. Question is can you adept to the game if your rush does not come through.

For example:

2vs2, multiplayer.
my closest enemy was going for air units. I spam anti air for 10$ and medium tanks.
I hold his bombers off, but then I notice a prototype base and within 3 min or so I get pounded by super heavy arty's. My teammate is sitting there doin' nothing. I go radiosilence, blizz and go for the arty's. But he has probably recon too as my tanks are picked off by bomber fighters and the arty.

End game for me. He arty into my base and pounds everything.

I lost, what I should have done is build second. base and out of his reach and go from there.

But its darn diff to fight heavy arty's protected by loads of figher bombers and recon.

Still have no tactic against it, besides not to let him build a prototype base...

Kill his recon, camo your base sorted.

MendedFlesh
09-13-2010, 09:42 PM
My favorite is Germany

Ithilenia
09-14-2010, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by MaDeToFaDe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ithilenia:
depends on the map:

go for three or four recon. Recon the entire map, it cost you what (forgot for a minute the cost of a jeep) 40$ ? If I see your carro's are coming a few anti tank units with the recon provided smash up 7 carro.

But its indeed an good early rush tactic. Question is can you adept to the game if your rush does not come through.

For example:

2vs2, multiplayer.
my closest enemy was going for air units. I spam anti air for 10$ and medium tanks.
I hold his bombers off, but then I notice a prototype base and within 3 min or so I get pounded by super heavy arty's. My teammate is sitting there doin' nothing. I go radiosilence, blizz and go for the arty's. But he has probably recon too as my tanks are picked off by bomber fighters and the arty.

End game for me. He arty into my base and pounds everything.

I lost, what I should have done is build second. base and out of his reach and go from there.

But its darn diff to fight heavy arty's protected by loads of figher bombers and recon.

Still have no tactic against it, besides not to let him build a prototype base...

Kill his recon, camo your base sorted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did camo my base, thats the very first ruse I always use. I did not have a chance killing his recon, my anti air were picked off by arty and fighter bombers.

Camo does not help with a recon flying up top of it... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

He just played me well I guess and with no support from my teammate (Popped several beacons but he just sat there...grrrrr) I was screwed.

GunnersMate07
09-14-2010, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by Ithilenia:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MaDeToFaDe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ithilenia:
depends on the map:

go for three or four recon. Recon the entire map, it cost you what (forgot for a minute the cost of a jeep) 40$ ? If I see your carro's are coming a few anti tank units with the recon provided smash up 7 carro.

But its indeed an good early rush tactic. Question is can you adept to the game if your rush does not come through.

For example:

2vs2, multiplayer.
my closest enemy was going for air units. I spam anti air for 10$ and medium tanks.
I hold his bombers off, but then I notice a prototype base and within 3 min or so I get pounded by super heavy arty's. My teammate is sitting there doin' nothing. I go radiosilence, blizz and go for the arty's. But he has probably recon too as my tanks are picked off by bomber fighters and the arty.

End game for me. He arty into my base and pounds everything.

I lost, what I should have done is build second. base and out of his reach and go from there.

But its darn diff to fight heavy arty's protected by loads of figher bombers and recon.

Still have no tactic against it, besides not to let him build a prototype base...

Kill his recon, camo your base sorted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did camo my base, thats the very first ruse I always use. I did not have a chance killing his recon, my anti air were picked off by arty and fighter bombers.

Camo does not help with a recon flying up top of it... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

He just played me well I guess and with no support from my teammate (Popped several beacons but he just sat there...grrrrr) I was screwed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your issue was that you did not counter his air units at all. Ground based AA, especially the towed kind is not a counter to air. Its simply a stop gap. If you want to counter a player who is going heavy air you need fighters of your own, and a few mobile AA (most mobile AA have armor so they are pretty much invulnerable to arty, and usually deal out more damage then their towed counterparts).

Like someone else said, use camo net so that you cannot be hit by the arty. And use your fighters to keep his air recon at bay. Then with fighter cover, and some mobile AA, you can go on the offensive with armor and infantry relatively protected from his air. (And also arty of your own if he turtles up with defensive buildings or towed AT/AA walls.

And I should also add his arty didnt do crap to your tanks at the opening. Arty is useless against armor. It takes literally hundreds of arty rounds to destroy medium tanks on up (and even light tanks are relatively invulnerable). Fighter-bombers on the other hand are the bane of tanks. So at the beginning of the round you really just ignore the other guys arty. You have to find a way to counter his air first. Then when his air is under control you can take the initiative and grab map control, and try pinning the other guy well into his base.

MaDeToFaDe
09-14-2010, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by GunnersMate07:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ithilenia:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MaDeToFaDe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ithilenia:
depends on the map:

go for three or four recon. Recon the entire map, it cost you what (forgot for a minute the cost of a jeep) 40$ ? If I see your carro's are coming a few anti tank units with the recon provided smash up 7 carro.

But its indeed an good early rush tactic. Question is can you adept to the game if your rush does not come through.

For example:

2vs2, multiplayer.
my closest enemy was going for air units. I spam anti air for 10$ and medium tanks.
I hold his bombers off, but then I notice a prototype base and within 3 min or so I get pounded by super heavy arty's. My teammate is sitting there doin' nothing. I go radiosilence, blizz and go for the arty's. But he has probably recon too as my tanks are picked off by bomber fighters and the arty.

End game for me. He arty into my base and pounds everything.

I lost, what I should have done is build second. base and out of his reach and go from there.

But its darn diff to fight heavy arty's protected by loads of figher bombers and recon.

Still have no tactic against it, besides not to let him build a prototype base...

Kill his recon, camo your base sorted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did camo my base, thats the very first ruse I always use. I did not have a chance killing his recon, my anti air were picked off by arty and fighter bombers.

Camo does not help with a recon flying up top of it... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

He just played me well I guess and with no support from my teammate (Popped several beacons but he just sat there...grrrrr) I was screwed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your issue was that you did not counter his air units at all. Ground based AA, especially the towed kind is not a counter to air. Its simply a stop gap. If you want to counter a player who is going heavy air you need fighters of your own, and a few mobile AA (most mobile AA have armor so they are pretty much invulnerable to arty, and usually deal out more damage then their towed counterparts).

Like someone else said, use camo net so that you cannot be hit by the arty. And use your fighters to keep his air recon at bay. Then with fighter cover, and some mobile AA, you can go on the offensive with armor and infantry relatively protected from his air. (And also arty of your own if he turtles up with defensive buildings or towed AT/AA walls.

And I should also add his arty didnt do crap to your tanks at the opening. Arty is useless against armor. It takes literally hundreds of arty rounds to destroy medium tanks on up (and even light tanks are relatively invulnerable). Fighter-bombers on the other hand are the bane of tanks. So at the beginning of the round you really just ignore the other guys arty. You have to find a way to counter his air first. Then when his air is under control you can take the initiative and grab map control, and try pinning the other guy well into his base. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gunners knows what he talking about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

vincenty82
09-14-2010, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by GunnersMate07:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ithilenia:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MaDeToFaDe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ithilenia:
depends on the map:

go for three or four recon. Recon the entire map, it cost you what (forgot for a minute the cost of a jeep) 40$ ? If I see your carro's are coming a few anti tank units with the recon provided smash up 7 carro.

But its indeed an good early rush tactic. Question is can you adept to the game if your rush does not come through.

For example:

2vs2, multiplayer.
my closest enemy was going for air units. I spam anti air for 10$ and medium tanks.
I hold his bombers off, but then I notice a prototype base and within 3 min or so I get pounded by super heavy arty's. My teammate is sitting there doin' nothing. I go radiosilence, blizz and go for the arty's. But he has probably recon too as my tanks are picked off by bomber fighters and the arty.

End game for me. He arty into my base and pounds everything.

I lost, what I should have done is build second. base and out of his reach and go from there.

But its darn diff to fight heavy arty's protected by loads of figher bombers and recon.

Still have no tactic against it, besides not to let him build a prototype base...

Kill his recon, camo your base sorted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did camo my base, thats the very first ruse I always use. I did not have a chance killing his recon, my anti air were picked off by arty and fighter bombers.

Camo does not help with a recon flying up top of it... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

He just played me well I guess and with no support from my teammate (Popped several beacons but he just sat there...grrrrr) I was screwed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your issue was that you did not counter his air units at all. Ground based AA, especially the towed kind is not a counter to air. Its simply a stop gap. If you want to counter a player who is going heavy air you need fighters of your own, and a few mobile AA (most mobile AA have armor so they are pretty much invulnerable to arty, and usually deal out more damage then their towed counterparts).

Like someone else said, use camo net so that you cannot be hit by the arty. And use your fighters to keep his air recon at bay. Then with fighter cover, and some mobile AA, you can go on the offensive with armor and infantry relatively protected from his air. (And also arty of your own if he turtles up with defensive buildings or towed AT/AA walls.

And I should also add his arty didnt do crap to your tanks at the opening. Arty is useless against armor. It takes literally hundreds of arty rounds to destroy medium tanks on up (and even light tanks are relatively invulnerable). Fighter-bombers on the other hand are the bane of tanks. So at the beginning of the round you really just ignore the other guys arty. You have to find a way to counter his air first. Then when his air is under control you can take the initiative and grab map control, and try pinning the other guy well into his base. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I cant entirely agree with you. I love playing US and I never go for the air to defend my base positions. First of all the airport costs 60 and is way to easy to be destroyed by arty or bombers and on top of that we are talking about 15 or so per fighter. I dont know about other factions but US base AA gun is awsome and it costs only 10 per unit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I usualy hide 4xAA in 2 to 4 woods around my base with AT and some troops and recon/armed recon. in the main base i put AA bunker surrounded with AA guns. There is no way for any air force to pass through that without large armored support on the ground. It has a grate power to cost ratio and even if they go for one of my AA positions it is cheap to replace (10 per AA 10 per AT 5 per G.I. On top of that u need 2 arty units to harras his Arty and ground troops and a 4 or 5 super pershings to pick his ground recon, light and med tanks (they can fire from safe distance). Tire him out with hits and runs and focus his attention on your tanks. Never go to far from your AA/AT positions that are hiding in the woods unless you have mobile armored AA. If he takes the bait and folows your tanks use blitz and lure him to your AT/AA. I guarante that 4xAT guns firing from woods as a suprise with 4 Super pershings will make mince meat from any tank force comming at you! If his armada is quite big (i doubt that since he spend so much on expensive air units that are shoot down constantly) apply terror ruse to even the chances or fanatism to counter his terror!

Ghoullio
09-14-2010, 01:20 PM
That sound exatcly about what i do. I have armored recon hiding in the woods with AA/AT towed units while the infantry is close enough for support. Behind them i have two arty units and three shermans. I held off an entire advance with less than $200 worth of units.

GunnersMate07
09-14-2010, 01:31 PM
[/QUOTE]
I cant entirely agree with you. I love playing US and I never go for the air to defend my base positions. First of all the airport costs 60 and is way to easy to be destroyed by arty or bombers and on top of that we are talking about 15 or so per fighter. I dont know about other factions but US base AA gun is awsome and it costs only 10 per unit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I usualy hide 4xAA in 2 to 4 woods around my base with AT and some troops and recon/armed recon. in the main base i put AA bunker surrounded with AA guns. There is no way for any air force to pass through that without large armored support on the ground. It has a grate power to cost ratio and even if they go for one of my AA positions it is cheap to replace (10 per AA 10 per AT 5 per G.I. On top of that u need 2 arty units to harras his Arty and ground troops and a 4 or 5 super pershings to pick his ground recon, light and med tanks (they can fire from safe distance). Tire him out with hits and runs and focus his attention on your tanks. Never go to far from your AA/AT positions that are hiding in the woods unless you have mobile armored AA. If he takes the bait and folows your tanks use blitz and lure him to your AT/AA. I guarante that 4xAT guns firing from woods as a suprise with 4 Super pershings will make mince meat from any tank force comming at you! If his armada is quite big (i doubt that since he spend so much on expensive air units that are shoot down constantly) apply terror ruse to even the chances or fanatism to counter his terror![/QUOTE]

The problem with your approach is that you are in effect turtling. At the highest levels of play, you only win by going hard on the attack and doing your best to pin the other player into his base (and thus control the most supply depots). By going for AA bunkers around your base, and relatively immobile defensive AA, you are pretty much admitting that you do not have a very aggressive play style. Because if you did, what AA cover do you have for your frontline forces trying to push into the enemy base?

I have played 44 games, and have 43 total victories against most of the top 15 leaderboard players (one loss to a 2 minute heavy bomber hq base rush that i misread as transport planes). I have never built a single defensive building, nor any towed AT/AA guns. But I am able to handily win every game by being super super aggressive (with good recon to never uselessly throw away units), and by applying correct counters. And I still say that the best counter against air is fighters of your own combined with some mobile AA. Anything else and you are sacrificing mobility, and in the grand scheme of things, map control.

And when you mention the cost of the airfield, understand your opponent spent the same (unless he was british). And there are other useful units out of the airport. Once your fighters help control the sky, you now can get fighter-bombers and air recon to complement your ground attack.

MaDeToFaDe
09-14-2010, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by GunnersMate07:

I cant entirely agree with you. I love playing US and I never go for the air to defend my base positions. First of all the airport costs 60 and is way to easy to be destroyed by arty or bombers and on top of that we are talking about 15 or so per fighter. I dont know about other factions but US base AA gun is awsome and it costs only 10 per unit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I usualy hide 4xAA in 2 to 4 woods around my base with AT and some troops and recon/armed recon. in the main base i put AA bunker surrounded with AA guns. There is no way for any air force to pass through that without large armored support on the ground. It has a grate power to cost ratio and even if they go for one of my AA positions it is cheap to replace (10 per AA 10 per AT 5 per G.I. On top of that u need 2 arty units to harras his Arty and ground troops and a 4 or 5 super pershings to pick his ground recon, light and med tanks (they can fire from safe distance). Tire him out with hits and runs and focus his attention on your tanks. Never go to far from your AA/AT positions that are hiding in the woods unless you have mobile armored AA. If he takes the bait and folows your tanks use blitz and lure him to your AT/AA. I guarante that 4xAT guns firing from woods as a suprise with 4 Super pershings will make mince meat from any tank force comming at you! If his armada is quite big (i doubt that since he spend so much on expensive air units that are shoot down constantly) apply terror ruse to even the chances or fanatism to counter his terror![/QUOTE]

The problem with your approach is that you are in effect turtling. At the highest levels of play , you only win by going hard on the attack and doing your best to pin the other player into his base (and thus control the most supply depots). By going for AA bunkers around your base, and relatively immobile defensive AA, you are pretty much admitting that you do not have a very aggressive play style. Because if you did, what AA cover do you have for your frontline forces trying to push into the enemy base?

I have played 44 games, and have 43 total victories against most of the top 15 leaderboard players (one loss to a 2 minute heavy bomber hq base rush that i misread as transport planes). I have never built a single defensive building, nor any towed AT/AA guns. But I am able to handily win every game by being super super aggressive (with good recon to never uselessly throw away units), and by applying correct counters. And I still say that the best counter against air is fighters of your own combined with some mobile AA. Anything else and you are sacrificing mobility, and in the grand scheme of things, map control.

And when you mention the cost of the airfield, understand your opponent spent the same (unless he was british). And there are other useful units out of the airport. Once your fighters help control the sky, you now can get fighter-bombers and air recon to complement your ground attack.[/QUOTE]

There is no high level of play on the 360, well not the players i have come across. xHxHx AOD is not very good, Bloodphreak is the same.. most of the people in the top 20 are not that good. Bionector was a decent match last night he sits in 12th. Apart from that the other games i have played have been rubbish.

vincenty82
09-14-2010, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by GunnersMate07:


The problem with your approach is that you are in effect turtling. At the highest levels of play, you only win by going hard on the attack and doing your best to pin the other player into his base (and thus control the most supply depots). By going for AA bunkers around your base, and relatively immobile defensive AA, you are pretty much admitting that you do not have a very aggressive play style. Because if you did, what AA cover do you have for your frontline forces trying to push into the enemy base?

I have played 44 games, and have 43 total victories against most of the top 15 leaderboard players (one loss to a 2 minute heavy bomber hq base rush that i misread as transport planes). I have never built a single defensive building, nor any towed AT/AA guns. But I am able to handily win every game by being super super aggressive (with good recon to never uselessly throw away units), and by applying correct counters. And I still say that the best counter against air is fighters of your own combined with some mobile AA. Anything else and you are sacrificing mobility, and in the grand scheme of things, map control.

And when you mention the cost of the airfield, understand your opponent spent the same (unless he was british). And there are other useful units out of the airport. Once your fighters help control the sky, you now can get fighter-bombers and air recon to complement your ground attack.
I would'nt call my gamplay style rushing but i wouldnt exactly say i was turtling either. The tactics i brouhgt here is a minimal loss counter for arty tank and air combo. Even if my enemy controls most of the map this tactic alows me to destroy waves of incoming forces and with help of artilery push him out of the sector (with minimal loses).
In the mean time i have small force of light tanks kept on radio silence changing positions and attacking different suply lines to make my oponent distracted. If you add on top of that decoy tanks it forces other player to focus on 3 different front lines giving you enough time to push your main force and in effect win.


PS I have only mentioned one AA bunker and the rest to be towed.
In addition i have couple armoured AA's but i move them arround to support my small task force of light tanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

@Ithilenia - Most important thing. Keep your opponent guesing where you are and attack with your main force only when you are sure that you will win.

GunnersMate07
09-14-2010, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by MaDeToFaDe:
There is no high level of play on the 360, well not the players i have come across. xHxHx AOD is not very good, Bloodphreak is the same.. most of the people in the top 20 are not that good. Bionector was a decent match last night he sits in 12th. Apart from that the other games i have played have been rubbish.

Yeah I definitely agree. I played in the spring beta on PC for awhile and games were definitely way more competitive than on the 360 now. The leaderboard also leaves something to be desired in this game. Losses dont seem to be negative (so in effect the game spammers who never leave their basement rule the leaderboard).

But regardless, the level of play is surprisingly atrocious.