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Billy_BigBoy
11-22-2007, 04:25 AM
Lately I was chasing a Lerche (what the he11 was that!) and I found out it's very hard to stay on its tail. There is hardly no clue which way the plane is going to turn. Good for him, but hard for the attacker.
I also heard the story of B-17's giving hard rudder while attack head-on to confuse the attacker.
And these days we have to CF-18 with his fake canpoy on its belly.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_CF-18_Reverse_Cockpit_lg.jpg

Are there more way to confuse the enemy, in real-life and on-line?

stathem
11-22-2007, 04:37 AM
Off the top of my head, there was a case in the interview with Stanilaw Slawski (? Sp?) that Xiola posted recently.

Over Dieppe one of the Polish squads flew deliberatly badly in formation in order to look like rookies inviting attack, whilst they were covered from above by another squad. According to the account it worked.

I believe this kind of thing was common in the First War.

Billy_BigBoy
11-22-2007, 04:49 AM
That story reminds me of another one:
Over the Pacific sometimes the Japanese fired their guns with tracers just to fake an air combat with the Americans. Other Americans would come to the rescue that way.

BTW, tracers help me on-line too to find the battle.

general_kalle
11-22-2007, 06:14 AM
when you are being chased roll to you wings pointing vertical but instead of pulling the usual positive g you push the stik forward.
just as the enemy rolls the other way to stay on your, you pull the stick back hard.

always works for me

cawimmer430
11-22-2007, 06:22 AM
Late in the war the Germans fielded a couple of these to uh...deceive the Allies. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://www.cals.lib.ar.us/miller/images/DOR_Do335.JPG

R_Target
11-22-2007, 06:44 AM
The Japanese frequently used a decoy with top cover. It worked more times than it should have.

BSS_CUDA
11-22-2007, 07:20 AM
Boyington would chat on bomber frequencies to draw the Japanese up into a fight thinking they were attacking bombers instead of fighters

Whirlin_merlin
11-22-2007, 08:42 AM
I have a vague memory of a story that some airforce or other stopped doing this false canopy buisness as it made formation flying etc abit too risky.

Anyone know what I'm on about, did I dream it?

Matz0r
11-22-2007, 09:11 AM
The Seafire/Spitfire VIII in game does a neat trick; The wings disappear at a certain distance which makes it pretty difficult to follow. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

SeaFireLIV
11-22-2007, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by Billy_BigBoy:
Are there more way to confuse the enemy, in real-life and on-line?

Plenty.

The canopy on the plane`s underside is new to me though.

K_Freddie
11-22-2007, 09:46 AM
Wot I usually do ..

When I get a tail, I sit there watching him without doing anything unusual. As he creeps closer I gently go into a slight turn so he has to lead me for a shot. As his nose is pointing directly at me I flip the whole lot over and pull out all the bells and whistles.
Most times surprise is complete and I'm on his 6 in a jiffy, or it takes 2 jiffy's http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

This of course only works with pings < 100 as timing is critical. Trying to judge timings with pings > 200 is hit and miss.

R988z
11-22-2007, 10:29 AM
One of my personal favourites was a cunning plan thought up by WW2 Ace Robin Olds during the Vietnam war, called operation Bolo, whereby F-4 Phantoms pretended to be F-105s to lure MiGs into a trap. See link for full story.
http://www.acepilots.com/vietnam/olds_bolo.html

SeaFireLIV
11-22-2007, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
Wot I usually do ..

When I get a tail, I sit there watching him without doing anything unusual. As he creeps closer I gently go into a slight turn so he has to lead me for a shot. As his nose is pointing directly at me I flip the whole lot over and pull out all the bells and whistles.
Most times surprise is complete and I'm on his 6 in a jiffy, or it takes 2 jiffy's http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

This of course only works with pings < 100 as timing is critical. Trying to judge timings with pings > 200 is hit and miss.

I`ve had a similar situation. flying along with a bogey closing behind. He thinks I haven`t seen him, since I haven`t taken any evasive action and I`m flying dead straight - he`s dying for a perfect first kill.

I sometimes let him get closer and closer, then swing out immediately when he`s in very close (often closer than firing range) which nearly always throws them. It`s dangerous, especially if he shoots earlier than expected.

Of course, the worse thing to do is slowly start to manouever left and right cos he`ll shoot immediately.

there`s another trick that i and another wingmen do that works almost too well... But I`m not revealing that one.

DuxCorvan
11-22-2007, 11:28 AM
I use to pretend I'm an enemy pilot. I check in for the other side, I even fly in one of their squadrons, and when I'm in the middle of a coop... TA-CHAN! Double agent! Ratatatatata! Boom! That really pis$es them off...

TKr... Ha! N00bs! They should know better! It's air combat deception! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

F16_Neo
11-22-2007, 12:07 PM
Read in a book (was it "To fly and fight"?) that sometimes over europe P47 pilots would fly in a bomber-like-formation to lure enemy fighters to engage them.

Waldo.Pepper
11-22-2007, 02:58 PM
The canopy on the plane`s underside is new to me though.

Shame on you! Aren't you a Canuck?

Glad to see that the recent fuss was a mod growing a pair rather than UBI pulling the plug.

All camo paint is deceptive to some extent. But here a couple of extreme examples.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/german%20deception/B-24Liberator.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/german%20deception/nosedeception.jpg

The caption for the Ju-88 reads "During the winter of 1943-44, 4. Staffel/KG 76 painted false "bomber noses" on their Ju-88Cs to trick Soviet pilots into making head on attacks. F1+XM also carries the Staffel insignia of an enemy "duck" within the crosshairs of a gunsight.

Sergio_101
11-23-2007, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The canopy on the plane`s underside is new to me though.

Shame on you! Aren't you a Canuck?

Glad to see that the recent fuss was a mod growing a pair rather than UBI pulling the plug.

All camo paint is deceptive to some extent. But here a couple of extreme examples.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/german%20deception/B-24Liberator.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/german%20deception/nosedeception.jpg

The caption for the Ju-88 reads "During the winter of 1943-44, 4. Staffel/KG 76 painted false "bomber noses" on their Ju-88Cs to trick Soviet pilots into making head on attacks. F1+XM also carries the Staffel insignia of an enemy "duck" within the crosshairs of a gunsight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In Vietnam then Col Robin Olds hatched operation "Bolo"

"The Bolo plan reasoned that by equipping F-4s with jamming pods, using the call signs and communications codewords of the F-105 wings, and flying their flight profiles through northwest Vietnam, the F-4s could effectively simulate an F-105 bombing mission and entice the MiG-21s into intercepting not bomb-laden Thunderchiefs, but Phantoms configured for air-to-air combat."

"The F-4s and their crews, however, proved equal to the situation and claimed seven MiG-21s destroyed, almost half of the 16 then in service with the VPAF (the VPAF admitted to losing six that day), without loss to USAF aircraft. Olds himself shot down one of the seven."

Source Credit wikipedia.org

SeaFireLIV
11-23-2007, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The canopy on the plane`s underside is new to me though.

Shame on you! Aren't you a Canuck?

Glad to see that the recent fuss was a mod growing a pair rather than UBI pulling the plug.

All camo paint is deceptive to some extent. But here a couple of extreme examples.

The caption for the Ju-88 reads "During the winter of 1943-44, 4. Staffel/KG 76 painted false "bomber noses" on their Ju-88Cs to trick Soviet pilots into making head on attacks. F1+XM also carries the Staffel insignia of an enemy "duck" within the crosshairs of a gunsight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I learn something new all the time. I wonder if these camo paints would work online (with no labels of course) And no, I`m not a canuck, as much as I appreciate the assumption.

M2morris
11-23-2007, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
when you are being chased roll to you wings pointing vertical but instead of pulling the usual positive g you push the stik forward.
just as the enemy rolls the other way to stay on your, you pull the stick back hard.

always works for me

Wowhow I think I'll try that next time, sounds like a good idea but I might red out tho.


Sort of On topic with this trickery stuff:
While I was on a special forces team back in the 90s we did what we called false insertions. The UH-60 or whatever kind of helo we were in would land in several different LZs before we acually got out of the helicopter, that way any enemy observing from a distance away would'nt know where exactly we had inserted.
This during training, our ***hole loud-mouthed team medic knew the pilot of this particular UH-60 we were in once, and they didnt get along at all. They hated eachother, so...we ended up doing neg Gs and pos Gs over and over as he flew fast around and over the trees. He was trying to make us loose our lunch. My 100 pound rucksack etc or anything not secured was stuck to the ceiling, I was suprized at how much stress a BlackHawk could take, it was really pulling and pushing over hard, I looked out the window and saw the rotor blades clip a tree limb as we flew by, this dude was pissed, or just stupid. Good thing we were seat belted. Then that pilot dropped us off in the middle of a freshly fertilized farm field, very freshly and clumpliy fertilized. I'll never forget the crew chief's laughing face as they pulled pitch and left us there.

Sry, there I go trailing off into OT land, wrong forum I geuss.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

BSS_CUDA
11-23-2007, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:

The caption for the Ju-88 reads "During the winter of 1943-44, 4. Staffel/KG 76 painted false "bomber noses" on their Ju-88Cs to trick Soviet pilots into making head on attacks. F1+XM also carries the Staffel insignia of an enemy "duck" within the crosshairs of a gunsight.

this reminds me of what happend to me online.
I was flying a 110 on the skies of fire server yesterday and some guy in a Zero thought it would be a good idea to take me head on.

he was wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
11-23-2007, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Billy_BigBoy:
Are there more way to confuse the enemy, in real-life and on-line?

Plenty.

The canopy on the plane`s underside is new to me though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thats painted on all Royal Canadian Air Force CF-18s. Or at least all of the regular duty CF-18s I've ever seen. Apparently its worked quite well during the Red Flag exercises.

Y0RGO
11-23-2007, 04:37 PM
Is land combat;

Sherman Armour Firefly with halv-hide canon to trick German into think 75mm 'SAFE" variate.

http://www.acehobby.co.nz/ossb2/club/ampsnz/kiwisinarmour/images/firefly.jpg

woofiedog
11-24-2007, 01:35 AM
Mint photos of the Cf-18 and the B-24 with the camo paint jobs.

Interesting thread.