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naran6142
06-27-2011, 08:52 AM
Was looking for a thread like this but could find it

Its known that its the place where Altair, Ezio and Desmond all meet up in some way

I was wondering what everyone thought is going to happen at this point and how exactly you think its going to work

medcsu11
06-27-2011, 08:55 AM
For some reason it sounds like a Return of the Jedi ending instance where Luke sees a vision of Obi Wan, Anakin and Yoda. I know this isnt the case but it simply reminded me of that.

RzaRecta357
06-27-2011, 09:18 AM
While they might meet in visions some how or something....I seriously doubt it.

I'm thinking it's just something that connects them in a not so literal but still literal sense if that makes any sense....haha

rileypoole1234
06-27-2011, 09:31 AM
It's when Desmond knows every single thing EVERY one of his ancestors knew. That's a lot of info. I'm 80% sure that when he goes through the white (not black) door/portal in the Desmond trailer, he'll get jolted out of his coma and reach this "Nexus".


Cheers

naran6142
06-27-2011, 09:32 AM
I was thinking something like: The treasure under Masayaf is a message from Altair to Ezio which is really for Desmond

When I first heard of this I pictured Altair, Ezio and Desmond surround by dark under a spotlight all having a conversation

But I hope that doesn't happen

protesthishero
06-27-2011, 10:47 AM
Here's my theory :
The name 'Desmond' is actually TWCB-speak for savior-of-mankind and these apparitions aren't addressing our main protagonist directly but in a similar fashion to something like "Hey, guy-who's-gonna-save-us-all. Well...save us!" And after Ezio sees Minerva uttering the name he clings on to it till the very end, giving it a legendary status of sorts within the order. Throughout the years, this name survives and our Dez gets his name from parents who obviously belong to a more devoted/accomplished part of the group. At this point, it is safe to assume that Altair has also witnessed atleast one TWCB warning and the name "Desmond" sticks out to him as well. But he, unlike Ezio understands it's significance due to the greater amount of experience he has and creates the seals with TWCB technology (from the knowledge he gains). In the final seal , Altair addresses the person viewing the memories thusly : "You are the flying one. I call you this because I'm sure you are like me, an assassin and in more ways than one to have gotten this far", thereby indirectly calling Ezio by his name and continuing with "You need to relay so-and-so information to Desmond, if he is not already aware of such a conversation ever taking place." Ezio then proceeds to desperately shout "Desmond, if you are hearing this..We need you to do so-and-so!". To which Desmond in the animus weakly tries to muster up a reply - "Altair...Ezio.." (This could also be the beginning of the game, where the people surrounding him are like "He's become delirious"). At this particular juncture, each person knows who the other is and each person has addressed the other directly or indirectly one way or another. This is the nexus point.
Although what rileypoole1234 said makes a whole lot more sense and yeah, I've got a vivid imagination. Forgive me for wasting your time if you think so.

medcsu11
06-27-2011, 10:59 AM
Technically, Ezio knows that he is anchoring an entity known as "Desmond" and also knows that this entity needs vital information through his own life experiences.
Therefore, it wouldnt be out of the question that Ezio continues to leave clues and information for Desmond to follow.
Altair, on the other hand, is completely oblivious to being anchored.
I highly doubt an actual meeting, but, in Ezio's case, I am positive he will continue to leave bread crumbs for Desmond to follow.

DarthEzio55
06-27-2011, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by medcsu11:
Technically, Ezio knows that he is anchoring an entity known as "Desmond" and also knows that this entity needs vital information through his own life experiences.
Therefore, it wouldnt be out of the question that Ezio continues to leave clues and information for Desmond to follow.
Altair, on the other hand, is completely oblivious to being anchored.
I highly doubt an actual meeting, but, in Ezio's case, I am positive he will continue to leave bread crumbs for Desmond to follow.

Lol, i'm already imagining what it would be like if all three met.

medcsu11
06-27-2011, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by medcsu11:
Technically, Ezio knows that he is anchoring an entity known as "Desmond" and also knows that this entity needs vital information through his own life experiences.
Therefore, it wouldnt be out of the question that Ezio continues to leave clues and information for Desmond to follow.
Altair, on the other hand, is completely oblivious to being anchored.
I highly doubt an actual meeting, but, in Ezio's case, I am positive he will continue to leave bread crumbs for Desmond to follow.

Lol, i'm already imagining what it would be like if all three met. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. It would be silly.

Mr_Shade
06-27-2011, 12:13 PM
I think this 'nexus' is not a real place...

Just a 'joining together' of all of the different storylines / people / places http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Mind you - I could be wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ThaWhistle
06-27-2011, 12:23 PM
I think Altair knows just as much as ezio would, maybe more.

the nexus is probably some 4th dimensional meeting of each of hteir conciousnesseseseses via the animus at the end of the game leading to some cliff hanger that leads right into AC3. or something

cless711
06-27-2011, 03:30 PM
Well Altair lives to be around 92 (i think) and hes been with the apple for a long time so maybe he knows more than we suspect him to know.

iN3krO
06-27-2011, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by cless711:
Well Altair lives to be around 92 (i think) and hes been with the apple for a long time so maybe he knows more than we suspect him to know.

he knows, surely, much more than what has been showed to use... And that is what we will find under masyaf....

naran6142
06-28-2011, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cless711:
Well Altair lives to be around 92 (i think) and hes been with the apple for a long time so maybe he knows more than we suspect him to know.

he knows, surely, much more than what has been showed to use... And that is what we will find under masyaf.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah, what ever is under masyaf is probably not material. Its probably information.
cuz the thing under masyaf is a library right?

Inorganic9_2
06-28-2011, 11:52 AM
When is it ever stated that Ezio knows he's anchoring Desmond?

ShaneO7K
06-28-2011, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
When is it ever stated that Ezio knows he's anchoring Desmond? Since Minerva.

Conniving_Eagle
06-28-2011, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by medcsu11:
Technically, Ezio knows that he is anchoring an entity known as "Desmond" and also knows that this entity needs vital information through his own life experiences.
Therefore, it wouldnt be out of the question that Ezio continues to leave clues and information for Desmond to follow.
Altair, on the other hand, is completely oblivious to being anchored.
I highly doubt an actual meeting, but, in Ezio's case, I am positive he will continue to leave bread crumbs for Desmond to follow.

We never played as Altair after he had the apple, which he had for the most of the rest of his life. So we don't know whether or not Desmond's entity and all that was revealed to him, or if he came into contact with TWCB or not.

naran6142
06-28-2011, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by dead_gunner187:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
When is it ever stated that Ezio knows he's anchoring Desmond? Since Minerva. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think its sorta implied that he know. Like at the end of the Davinci Disappearence he says the message wasn't for him

scope2005
06-30-2011, 06:10 AM
I have been thinking about what common memory or event each of Desmonds ancestors have experienced, that could be the focus of the nexus, the event where thier destinies converge - One re-occuring theme I see between all three chracters is that Altair, Ezio and Desmond have all lost someone they have a romantic tie to.

Altair - Death of Adha or Maria

Ezio - Death of Christina.

Desmond - The *Assumed* death of lucy...

This would make sense of why Juno controlled Desmond and had him stab Lucy... So Desmond has this moment of loss that is shared with his ancestors so that he can reach the nexus and "Unlock his 6th sense".

Juno does say something along the lines of "it is done, the path is open - unlock the sixth", so it could be implying that she has now made it possible for Desmond to reach the nexus which is obviously the place he needs to reach not only to snap out of his coma, but to give him this "sixth sense", that TWCB claim to have.

Another less likely event is surrounding the scar on the right of the mouth.

Its strange how all 3 of them have been marked in exactly the same place due to events in thier lives. So far we have only seen how Ezio gained his scar - which was a trivial fight... But is there a greater reason WHY all 3 would be marked as such in the same place?

While only a minor event compared to thier trials and tribulations, its something that all 3 have in common... and perhaps could be the key point in their life that the nexus relates to if not the romantic tie theory?

ShaneO7K
06-30-2011, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by naran6142:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dead_gunner187:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
When is it ever stated that Ezio knows he's anchoring Desmond? Since Minerva. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think its sorta implied that he know. Like at the end of the Davinci Disappearence he says the message wasn't for him </div></BLOCKQUOTE> And at the start of Brotherhood when Mario and Ezio are on their back into the villa and the conversation they had (though I forget most of it), I think Ezio pretty much knew that someone else was overseeing his meeting with Minerva even though he couldn't see no one.

After this I think Ezio pretty much knows that his main purpose in life has come to pass and is trying to find a new meaning in his life, and though he didn't understand Minerva's warning completely he still tries to give Desmond as much help as he can which we see with the Da Vinci disappearance co-ordinates and the pass-code for the temple. And he'll probably do something else in Revelations which helps Desmond in some way.

RzaRecta357
06-30-2011, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by scope2005:
I have been thinking about what common memory or event each of Desmonds ancestors have experienced, that could be the focus of the nexus, the event where thier destinies converge - One re-occuring theme I see between all three chracters is that Altair, Ezio and Desmond have all lost someone they have a romantic tie to.

Altair - Death of Adha or Maria

Ezio - Death of Christina.

Desmond - The *Assumed* death of lucy...

This would make sense of why Juno controlled Desmond and had him stab Lucy... So Desmond has this moment of loss that is shared with his ancestors so that he can reach the nexus and "Unlock his 6th sense".

Juno does say something along the lines of "it is done, the path is open - unlock the sixth", so it could be implying that she has now made it possible for Desmond to reach the nexus which is obviously the place he needs to reach not only to snap out of his coma, but to give him this "sixth sense", that TWCB claim to have.

Another less likely event is surrounding the scar on the right of the mouth.

Its strange how all 3 of them have been marked in exactly the same place due to events in thier lives. So far we have only seen how Ezio gained his scar - which was a trivial fight... But is there a greater reason WHY all 3 would be marked as such in the same place?

While only a minor event compared to thier trials and tribulations, its something that all 3 have in common... and perhaps could be the key point in their life that the nexus relates to if not the romantic tie theory?


You're idea of Juno opening the path with the stabbing makes me happy.

That's what I'm going to believe until the game comes out. Seems to make sense.

twenty_glyphs
06-30-2011, 09:35 AM
The following will contain some spoilers from the new novel, The Secret Crusade.

*** SECRET CRUSADE SPOILERS ***

According to the book, during the last decade of his life Altair had a library built in Masyaf on the site of Al Mualim's garden where you fought him at the end of the first game. The Apple had directed him to 5 artifacts that he used as keys to the library and are also messages for future Assassins. When asked for who, he says "I wish I knew." So while Altair knows of the Prophet, it seems he doesn't know the details of Ezio, or that the Prophet will be the same one to view the messages he left in the 5 seal artifacts.

I think your theory of the loss that all 3 of the Assassins have experienced is on the right track. There's another clue in The Secret Crusade. Maria dies in her sixties and Altair exiles himself away from Masyaf for 20 years in depression. He begins studying the Apple again (in addition to already having performed a lot of the studies that he wrote in the Codex). He muses on how the Apple has mostly shown him only its negative side ever since he discovered it. But he remembers that when he first held it after defeating Al Mualim, he felt it was benign and beneficial for humanity. At that time, he was mourning Al Mualim. Now he's mourning Maria and he wonders if the Apple just needs some sort of catalyst to release its biggest secrets. He wonders, "Perhaps the Apple first had to take in order to give."

Moultonborough
06-30-2011, 10:46 AM
The nexus in my mind is when they all know the same information. Only Altair knows what is contained within the seals. Or what it is protecting. But anyway when Ezio discovers them and their purpose Desmond through Ezio will know as well. So the nexus is when they all understand the information.

Animuses
06-30-2011, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
The following will contain some spoilers from the new novel, The Secret Crusade.

*** SECRET CRUSADE SPOILERS ***

According to the book, during the last decade of his life Altair had a library built in Masyaf on the site of Al Mualim's garden where you fought him at the end of the first game. The Apple had directed him to 5 artifacts that he used as keys to the library and are also messages for future Assassins. When asked for who, he says "I wish I knew." So while Altair knows of the Prophet, it seems he doesn't know the details of Ezio, or that the Prophet will be the same one to view the messages he left in the 5 seal artifacts.

I think your theory of the loss that all 3 of the Assassins have experienced is on the right track. There's another clue in The Secret Crusade. Maria dies in her sixties and Altair exiles himself away from Masyaf for 20 years in depression. He begins studying the Apple again (in addition to already having performed a lot of the studies that he wrote in the Codex). He muses on how the Apple has mostly shown him only its negative side ever since he discovered it. But he remembers that when he first held it after defeating Al Mualim, he felt it was benign and beneficial for humanity. At that time, he was mourning Al Mualim. Now he's mourning Maria and he wonders if the Apple just needs some sort of catalyst to release its biggest secrets. He wonders, "Perhaps the Apple first had to take in order to give."

Stop quoting this abomination of a story. It should and will have nothing to do with Revelations.

RzaRecta357
06-30-2011, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Animuses:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
The following will contain some spoilers from the new novel, The Secret Crusade.

*** SECRET CRUSADE SPOILERS ***

According to the book, during the last decade of his life Altair had a library built in Masyaf on the site of Al Mualim's garden where you fought him at the end of the first game. The Apple had directed him to 5 artifacts that he used as keys to the library and are also messages for future Assassins. When asked for who, he says "I wish I knew." So while Altair knows of the Prophet, it seems he doesn't know the details of Ezio, or that the Prophet will be the same one to view the messages he left in the 5 seal artifacts.

I think your theory of the loss that all 3 of the Assassins have experienced is on the right track. There's another clue in The Secret Crusade. Maria dies in her sixties and Altair exiles himself away from Masyaf for 20 years in depression. He begins studying the Apple again (in addition to already having performed a lot of the studies that he wrote in the Codex). He muses on how the Apple has mostly shown him only its negative side ever since he discovered it. But he remembers that when he first held it after defeating Al Mualim, he felt it was benign and beneficial for humanity. At that time, he was mourning Al Mualim. Now he's mourning Maria and he wonders if the Apple just needs some sort of catalyst to release its biggest secrets. He wonders, "Perhaps the Apple first had to take in order to give."

Stop quoting this abomination of a story. It should and will have nothing to do with Revelations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hahah little bruva. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't true.

There is more truth to it maybe making it into the game then there isn't..

Case and point? AC2 book that released with AC2. Author writes in Ezio going to steal his father and brothers corpses, and loading them onto a boat to send out to sea and light on fire.

ACB, they put that scene in. Along with a few other scenes in the flashbacks.

Boom.

twenty_glyphs
06-30-2011, 02:22 PM
The book is canon because they said it was canon. @AymarMtl on Twitter, a production manager for Assassin's Creed, told me it was canon and that their writers worked closely with the novel writer. An interview with the writer on UbiWorkshop's site says he worked with the game writers on a general framework and then filled in details on his own that were approved. The book helps to fill the bridge between Altair and Ezio, showing what happened in the world of the Assassins in the early 1200s and how they went from their base in Masyaf to being a more global organization like we see in Ezio's time. It also sets up (though barely) the seals hidden in Constantinople that Ezio will find in Revelations and possibly hints at some moments in Altair's life that will make up the playable Altair segments in Revelations. So yes, it does have something to do with Revelations.

Back on topic, the theory that Altair, Ezio and Desmond all knowing what is in the Masyaf library makes sense as a nexus point too.

Saar Ben Kiki
07-01-2011, 08:19 AM
my theory is that due to the apple altair never died.. or actually he died a bit after he lost his apple...

so a probable thing is that under masyaf is the grave of altair, or that actually altair is alive and had eternal life and ezio reveals that and desmond suddenly realises this altair is actually someone he knows in present days (like williams m. or etc.)
and due to the apple he managed to change himself and adapt to certain cultures and remain young.... but thats kind of too much to ask for in ac

roostersrule2
07-01-2011, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by SaarBenKiki:
my theory is that due to the apple altair never died.. or actually he died a bit after he lost his apple...

so a probable thing is that under masyaf is the grave of altair, or that actually altair is alive and had eternal life and ezio reveals that and desmond suddenly realises this altair is actually someone he knows in present days (like williams m. or etc.)
and due to the apple he managed to change himself and adapt to certain cultures and remain young.... but thats kind of too much to ask for in ac the creative director for AC Alex amancio said altair lived to around 90 and in the secret crusade book he lives until 92 and no just because theyve got twcb blood in them dosent mean they can live forever as the twcb are dying so that disproves those ezio and altair live forever theories

twenty_glyphs
07-01-2011, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by roostersrule2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SaarBenKiki:
my theory is that due to the apple altair never died.. or actually he died a bit after he lost his apple...

so a probable thing is that under masyaf is the grave of altair, or that actually altair is alive and had eternal life and ezio reveals that and desmond suddenly realises this altair is actually someone he knows in present days (like williams m. or etc.)
and due to the apple he managed to change himself and adapt to certain cultures and remain young.... but thats kind of too much to ask for in ac the creative director for AC Alex amancio said altair lived to around 90 and in the secret crusade book he lives until 92 and no just because theyve got twcb blood in them dosent mean they can live forever as the twcb are dying so that disproves those ezio and altair live forever theories </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do agree that Alta´r did not live beyond his 90s physically. I still think there is something to his last Codex entry though about what will become of his identity/consciousness after he dies. I think this may be related to what the Mentor told Daniel Cross in The Fall #3. He said that the past Mentors lived through him, and he possessed the sum total of all their knowledge and experiences. That sounds like genetic memory to me, except that he wasn't descended from all the past Mentors. He tells Daniel that the process for passing on this knowledge was quite interesting. This all sounds like it's related to the seals/keys that Alta´r left for Ezio. Those seals will let Ezio see memories of Alta´r that aren't passed down through genetic memory, but with First Civilization technology. It's possible the Nexus involves Ezio discovering the means to pass on all his knowledge/memories to the next Mentor. Maybe this knowledge still exists somewhere to be "downloaded" into Desmond. It all sounds related to the Sixth Sense as well.

The Secret Crusade sheds interesting new light on that last Codex entry by Alta´r. As far as we see, Alta´r has the Apple for the entire novel and his entire life. But the Codex says he locked it away on Cyprus sometime after finally seeing the big revelation the Apple had for him of the Prophet. The only likely time he sealed the Apple away would have been in the last 10 years or so of his life when he retook control of the Order. He was studying the Apple for 20 years before that and he had it with him when he returned to Masyaf. Because Alta´r gave the Codex and the 5 seals to the Polos when he was 92, that means he had already recorded his last Codex entry as well as his last message to Ezio through the seals. He likely died when the Mongols came to Masyaf, so he would have already looked at the Apple again if he did. Perhaps the last seal will be a mission where Alta´r travels through Cyprus to get into the hidden archive where he sealed the Apple and takes his one last look.

scope2005
07-01-2011, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roostersrule2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SaarBenKiki:
my theory is that due to the apple altair never died.. or actually he died a bit after he lost his apple...

so a probable thing is that under masyaf is the grave of altair, or that actually altair is alive and had eternal life and ezio reveals that and desmond suddenly realises this altair is actually someone he knows in present days (like williams m. or etc.)
and due to the apple he managed to change himself and adapt to certain cultures and remain young.... but thats kind of too much to ask for in ac the creative director for AC Alex amancio said altair lived to around 90 and in the secret crusade book he lives until 92 and no just because theyve got twcb blood in them dosent mean they can live forever as the twcb are dying so that disproves those ezio and altair live forever theories </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do agree that Alta´r did not live beyond his 90s physically. I still think there is something to his last Codex entry though about what will become of his identity/consciousness after he dies. I think this may be related to what the Mentor told Daniel Cross in The Fall #3. He said that the past Mentors lived through him, and he possessed the sum total of all their knowledge and experiences. That sounds like genetic memory to me, except that he wasn't descended from all the past Mentors. He tells Daniel that the process for passing on this knowledge was quite interesting. This all sounds like it's related to the seals/keys that Alta´r left for Ezio. Those seals will let Ezio see memories of Alta´r that aren't passed down through genetic memory, but with First Civilization technology. It's possible the Nexus involves Ezio discovering the means to pass on all his knowledge/memories to the next Mentor. Maybe this knowledge still exists somewhere to be "downloaded" into Desmond. It all sounds related to the Sixth Sense as well.

The Secret Crusade sheds interesting new light on that last Codex entry by Alta´r. As far as we see, Alta´r has the Apple for the entire novel and his entire life. But the Codex says he locked it away on Cyprus sometime after finally seeing the big revelation the Apple had for him of the Prophet. The only likely time he sealed the Apple away would have been in the last 10 years or so of his life when he retook control of the Order. He was studying the Apple for 20 years before that and he had it with him when he returned to Masyaf. Because Alta´r gave the Codex and the 5 seals to the Polos when he was 92, that means he had already recorded his last Codex entry as well as his last message to Ezio through the seals. He likely died when the Mongols came to Masyaf, so he would have already looked at the Apple again if he did. Perhaps the last seal will be a mission where Alta´r travels through Cyprus to get into the hidden archive where he sealed the Apple and takes his one last look. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This sounds very interesting, and could be more evidence to support the theory altair faced with his death saved part of his conciousness into some sort of First Civilization Tech...

I guess like TWCB did in their temples?

Perhaps when Altair gave the seals for the Library to the Polo's, he locked himself inside - knowing only an assassin with all seals will be able to enter.

Then transferred his "soul", from his body - into one of these machines, perhaps so he could could deliver the "revelation" to the prophet?

Imagine a holographic Altair, talking to Desmond through altair? - Trippy. Perhaps thats what the nexus is?

I would prefer him than the much expected Jupiter :P

twenty_glyphs
07-01-2011, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by scope2005:
This sounds very interesting, and could be more evidence to support the theory altair faced with his death saved part of his conciousness into some sort of First Civilization Tech...

I guess like TWCB did in their temples?

Perhaps when Altair gave the seals for the Library to the Polo's, he locked himself inside - knowing only an assassin with all seals will be able to enter.

Then transferred his "soul", from his body - into one of these machines, perhaps so he could could deliver the "revelation" to the prophet?

Imagine a holographic Altair, talking to Desmond through altair? - Trippy. Perhaps thats what the nexus is?

I would prefer him than the much expected Jupiter :P

That sounds interesting. I really wonder what the holograms left behind by TWCB are. Are they sentient representations of their own consciousness? Minerva does seem capable of reacting to Ezio in real-time. But if they are self-aware, why are the messages so short and disappear after delivered? What are they doing the rest of the time? I think this is related to what happened to Subject 16 as well. He seems to have imprinted his consciousness into the Animus, which is likely based on First Civilization technology. He then went on to live long enough to kill himself. Presumably, Alta´r could have done the same, imprinting his current consciousness into the Apple and then continuing to live a short while after that until 1257. And then you have Consus, who seems like an actual consciousness living inside and interacting with Giovanni Borgia's mind after he was exposed to the Shroud of Eden as a baby.

scope2005
07-01-2011, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by scope2005:
This sounds very interesting, and could be more evidence to support the theory altair faced with his death saved part of his conciousness into some sort of First Civilization Tech...

I guess like TWCB did in their temples?

Perhaps when Altair gave the seals for the Library to the Polo's, he locked himself inside - knowing only an assassin with all seals will be able to enter.

Then transferred his "soul", from his body - into one of these machines, perhaps so he could could deliver the "revelation" to the prophet?

Imagine a holographic Altair, talking to Desmond through altair? - Trippy. Perhaps thats what the nexus is?

I would prefer him than the much expected Jupiter :P

That sounds interesting. I really wonder what the holograms left behind by TWCB are. Are they sentient representations of their own consciousness? Minerva does seem capable of reacting to Ezio in real-time. But if they are self-aware, why are the messages so short and disappear after delivered? What are they doing the rest of the time? I think this is related to what happened to Subject 16 as well. He seems to have imprinted his consciousness into the Animus, which is likely based on First Civilization technology. He then went on to live long enough to kill himself. Presumably, Alta´r could have done the same, imprinting his current consciousness into the Apple and then continuing to live a short while after that until 1257. And then you have Consus, who seems like an actual consciousness living inside and interacting with Giovanni Borgia's mind after he was exposed to the Shroud of Eden as a baby. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am inclined to believe they are sentient holograms - as when Ezio meet's Minerva, she asks to see the apple, then hovers her hand over it - the apple seems to react.

The meaning of such a gesture would be useless, if it was just a pre-recorded message.

I think the reason the messages are so short if Subject 16 is anything to go by - could be related to the sheer amount of energy required for the hologram to manifest.

IF - Subject 16's manifestation in the animus is in any way related to TWCB holograms, then the short duration of such encounters will most certainly be power related. Subject 16 claims he doesn't have time to talk, as he needs to "recharge".

My guess is that the sheer amount of power required to execute subject 16's DNA code from the digital format on the Hard-Disk of the Animus - into a sentient being, pushed the limitations of the animus - hence the choppy / confused and cryptic speech of 16.

Whereas TWCB encounters, while slightly longer in duration and they are definately fully there in mind, is probably running on far more advanced tech from the first civilization - and probably takes a mass amount of energy - perhaps taking decades or who knows even centuries to recharge before they can manifest again.

All this is based on guess work to be honest - but it seems to make sense.

naran6142
07-01-2011, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by scope2005:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by scope2005:
This sounds very interesting, and could be more evidence to support the theory altair faced with his death saved part of his conciousness into some sort of First Civilization Tech...

I guess like TWCB did in their temples?

Perhaps when Altair gave the seals for the Library to the Polo's, he locked himself inside - knowing only an assassin with all seals will be able to enter.

Then transferred his "soul", from his body - into one of these machines, perhaps so he could could deliver the "revelation" to the prophet?

Imagine a holographic Altair, talking to Desmond through altair? - Trippy. Perhaps thats what the nexus is?

I would prefer him than the much expected Jupiter :P

That sounds interesting. I really wonder what the holograms left behind by TWCB are. Are they sentient representations of their own consciousness? Minerva does seem capable of reacting to Ezio in real-time. But if they are self-aware, why are the messages so short and disappear after delivered? What are they doing the rest of the time? I think this is related to what happened to Subject 16 as well. He seems to have imprinted his consciousness into the Animus, which is likely based on First Civilization technology. He then went on to live long enough to kill himself. Presumably, Alta´r could have done the same, imprinting his current consciousness into the Apple and then continuing to live a short while after that until 1257. And then you have Consus, who seems like an actual consciousness living inside and interacting with Giovanni Borgia's mind after he was exposed to the Shroud of Eden as a baby. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am inclined to believe they are sentient holograms - as when Ezio meet's Minerva, she asks to see the apple, then hovers her hand over it - the apple seems to react.

The meaning of such a gesture would be useless, if it was just a pre-recorded message.

I think the reason the messages are so short if Subject 16 is anything to go by - could be related to the sheer amount of energy required for the hologram to manifest.

IF - Subject 16's manifestation in the animus is in any way related to TWCB holograms, then the short duration of such encounters will most certainly be power related. Subject 16 claims he doesn't have time to talk, as he needs to "recharge".

My guess is that the sheer amount of power required to execute subject 16's DNA code from the digital format on the Hard-Disk of the Animus - into a sentient being, pushed the limitations of the animus - hence the choppy / confused and cryptic speech of 16.

Whereas TWCB encounters, while slightly longer in duration and they are definately fully there in mind, is probably running on far more advanced tech from the first civilization - and probably takes a mass amount of energy - perhaps taking decades or who knows even centuries to recharge before they can manifest again.

All this is based on guess work to be honest - but it seems to make sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im not sure about the intelligence of the holograms. your idea makes sense with sixteens speech

but i figured that the TWCB could see the future or something, that how they know that something is going to happen on Dec 21 2012

if they can see the future then they could have pre-recorded messages cuz they will know what is going to happen

scope2005
07-01-2011, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by naran6142:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by scope2005:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by scope2005:
This sounds very interesting, and could be more evidence to support the theory altair faced with his death saved part of his conciousness into some sort of First Civilization Tech...

I guess like TWCB did in their temples?

Perhaps when Altair gave the seals for the Library to the Polo's, he locked himself inside - knowing only an assassin with all seals will be able to enter.

Then transferred his "soul", from his body - into one of these machines, perhaps so he could could deliver the "revelation" to the prophet?

Imagine a holographic Altair, talking to Desmond through altair? - Trippy. Perhaps thats what the nexus is?

I would prefer him than the much expected Jupiter :P

That sounds interesting. I really wonder what the holograms left behind by TWCB are. Are they sentient representations of their own consciousness? Minerva does seem capable of reacting to Ezio in real-time. But if they are self-aware, why are the messages so short and disappear after delivered? What are they doing the rest of the time? I think this is related to what happened to Subject 16 as well. He seems to have imprinted his consciousness into the Animus, which is likely based on First Civilization technology. He then went on to live long enough to kill himself. Presumably, Alta´r could have done the same, imprinting his current consciousness into the Apple and then continuing to live a short while after that until 1257. And then you have Consus, who seems like an actual consciousness living inside and interacting with Giovanni Borgia's mind after he was exposed to the Shroud of Eden as a baby. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am inclined to believe they are sentient holograms - as when Ezio meet's Minerva, she asks to see the apple, then hovers her hand over it - the apple seems to react.

The meaning of such a gesture would be useless, if it was just a pre-recorded message.

I think the reason the messages are so short if Subject 16 is anything to go by - could be related to the sheer amount of energy required for the hologram to manifest.

IF - Subject 16's manifestation in the animus is in any way related to TWCB holograms, then the short duration of such encounters will most certainly be power related. Subject 16 claims he doesn't have time to talk, as he needs to "recharge".

My guess is that the sheer amount of power required to execute subject 16's DNA code from the digital format on the Hard-Disk of the Animus - into a sentient being, pushed the limitations of the animus - hence the choppy / confused and cryptic speech of 16.

Whereas TWCB encounters, while slightly longer in duration and they are definately fully there in mind, is probably running on far more advanced tech from the first civilization - and probably takes a mass amount of energy - perhaps taking decades or who knows even centuries to recharge before they can manifest again.

All this is based on guess work to be honest - but it seems to make sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im not sure about the intelligence of the holograms. your idea makes sense with sixteens speech

but i figured that the TWCB could see the future or something, that how they know that something is going to happen on Dec 21 2012

if they can see the future then they could have pre-recorded messages cuz they will know what is going to happen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is an entirely possible theory, and its what I have always thought before I started looking at it from this perspective.

But as they were extremely advanced in both mind and technology, I am pretty sure they would have had a good enough understanding of astronomy to predict how often the sun would release this solar flare.

Then again, The Prophecy and Minerva knowing desmond was watching and then calling him by name pretty much confirms they have premonitions anyway... So your probably right.

If you hold that much power in your hands though, why not be able to cheat death? Why leave a "voicemail" when you can deliver it in person.

Inorganic9_2
07-01-2011, 03:45 PM
Btw, did anyone notice:

Spoilers, obviously.

When Desmond was made to stab Lucy, Juno spoke of awakening the 6th sense, i.e. knowledge. Al Mualim is heard, more than once, saying "He who increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow".

twenty_glyphs
07-01-2011, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
Btw, did anyone notice:

Spoilers, obviously.

When Desmond was made to stab Lucy, Juno spoke of awakening the 6th sense, i.e. knowledge. Al Mualim is heard, more than once, saying "He who increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow".

I thought of that after reading Alta´r's musing in The Secret Crusade, "Perhaps the Apple first had to take in order to give." The whole thing that Al Mualim says as he's dying is a famous quote from Ecclesiastes in the Bible. That is interesting to me because that passage is thought to have been written by Solomon, and the Apple was found with the Ark in Solomon's Temple. There's a legend that Solomon captured 72 demons in a bronze vessel, which may have been an inspiration for the Apple, as well as the importance of the number 72.

I saw an interview with the game's writer today that I hadn't seen before. He mentions that the library was indeed built during the end of Alta´r's life, and that Ezio thinks there may be information about the origin of the Assassin Order and more about the First Civilization inside. Perhaps Alta´r built the library after looking in the Apple one last time.

GlytchMeister
07-01-2011, 07:01 PM
Going back to the nexus question...

Let's start with the basics. Desmond is in a coma, and is trying to glue his mind back together by playing around in the animus' version of "Safe Mode", the black room, to find something called the "Nexus".
This Nexus is something that somehow connects the three Assassins. It is the key to Desmond's return to consciousness, to Desmond unlocking the sixth sense (perhaps an advanced version of Eagle Vision/Eagle Sense), and possibly to saving the world.
Pretty important.
We know that Desmond is sensitive to the states of minds of his ancestors. When Altair or Ezio were really bothered by something, that would transfer onto Desmond, destabilizing the memory. In order to freely access that troubled memory, Desmond would have to ease into it by first accessing earlier memories. Desmond is also able to access "Inception"-style memories: When Ezio remembers something, Desmond gets sucked into that memory-within-a-memory. Such memory-ceptions require a certain percentage of synchronization to be open (Christina Missions).

When Desmond is forced to "ease" into a memory, is it because his current psychological state is too far from his ancestor's, and he has to relive previous memories to get on the same page as his ancestor? In other words, does he have to not only synch the normal way, but also his psyche?
If that is the case, do the Altair-via-Ezio memories in Revelations require a higher psychological synchronization than just single-ancestor memories? If so, than what happens when Desmond manages to reach flawless physical and psychological synchronization?

Desmond would have to do everything exactly as Ezio did in a particular memory while maintaining exactly the same state of mind as Ezio AND Ezio would have to do everything exactly as Altair did in a particular memory while maintaining exactly the same state of mind as Altair, thus allowing Desmond to do everything exactly as Altair did in a particular memory while maintaining exactly the same state of mind as Altair.

...ack. Basically, all three of them would have to achieve perfect, flawless synch with each other during one of the Desmond reliving Ezio as Ezio relives Altair.

That moment of uber-synch would be the moment that Desmond finds the Nexus.

...I think.

roostersrule2
07-01-2011, 07:14 PM
if desmonds the saviour and ezios the prophet what is altair

Elbrujo1978
07-02-2011, 04:21 AM
Altair is the nexus.

orionsrise
07-03-2011, 10:23 AM
It is my belief that the nexus begins with Altiar and ends in Desmond. Case in point, all three men, though separated by centuries are identical in physical form. Even taking in the fact they are half-beed twcb that is an impossibility in genetics. Also the truth video in AC2 reveals that Adam has the same voice as Desmond making 4 distinct but also exact copies of one man. So here is my whole theory. Those Who Came Before are trying nothing less than the Re-Birth of their entire species an Desmond is the first attempt to bring themselves back to this world. A small probability exists that generations of constant procreation with other half-beeds will widdle away the small part of human dna to leave that larger dna sequence left by twcb. Making Ezio the prophet, Altiar the start of the nexus and Desmond becoming the singularity. Or I am completely wrong. thoughts?

Elbrujo1978
07-04-2011, 12:04 AM
I agree with you, that's something I've thought for some time.

scope2005
07-04-2011, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by orionsrise:
It is my belief that the nexus begins with Altiar and ends in Desmond. Case in point, all three men, though separated by centuries are identical in physical form. Even taking in the fact they are half-beed twcb that is an impossibility in genetics. Also the truth video in AC2 reveals that Adam has the same voice as Desmond making 4 distinct but also exact copies of one man. So here is my whole theory. Those Who Came Before are trying nothing less than the Re-Birth of their entire species an Desmond is the first attempt to bring themselves back to this world. A small probability exists that generations of constant procreation with other half-beeds will widdle away the small part of human dna to leave that larger dna sequence left by twcb. Making Ezio the prophet, Altiar the start of the nexus and Desmond becoming the singularity. Or I am completely wrong. thoughts?

Sounds a solid theory to me.

However I don't think thier goal in cross breeding with humans was to try and resurrect thier species, more just to keep part of thier DNA alive.

The reason for doing so must have something to do with the 2012 disaster.

I was thinking - what if these temples that humans and TWCB built in collaboration are part of a bigger device? That when activated generate some sort of force-field or shield around the earth to repel the solar-flare and stop the destabilisation of the earth's magnetic field? But the key to activating this device is TWCB DNA? Alive in desmond? Perhaps controlling this may require a heightened state of mind, which is why desond must unlock the 6th sense.

They seem to be dotted all around the world evenly so each temple might only generate a small part of the shield, but when all are activated it could cover the entire earth.

twenty_glyphs
07-04-2011, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by scope2005:
Sounds a solid theory to me.

However I don't think thier goal in cross breeding with humans was to try and resurrect thier species, more just to keep part of thier DNA alive.

The reason for doing so must have something to do with the 2012 disaster.

I was thinking - what if these temples that humans and TWCB built in collaboration are part of a bigger device? That when activated generate some sort of force-field or shield around the earth to repel the solar-flare and stop the destabilisation of the earth's magnetic field? But the key to activating this device is TWCB DNA? Alive in desmond? Perhaps controlling this may require a heightened state of mind, which is why desond must unlock the 6th sense.

They seem to be dotted all around the world evenly so each temple might only generate a small part of the shield, but when all are activated it could cover the entire earth.

You have a good point here. It sounds like the Tree of Life (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/7471057809?r=6131038809) theory posted several months ago. I don't see what good bringing back the pure First Civilization race would do for the original "gods", so it makes more sense to me that they are genuinely trying to save the world they left behind. That's what Juno says when Desmond first sees her hologram: "May it save the world we leave behind."

It makes sense that they built the Temples to require TWCB DNA to activate them, similar to how the Vault only opened for Ezio. Perhaps they realized after they had come up with a solution for the repeating solar catastrophe that their own race would die out and that humanity would need some of their abilities in order to activate their solution. Also think of this Ś why would TWCB be trying to save their own race thousands of years later when they're all dead, when it likely would have been much easier to do while they were still alive? Why not just have more children of their own kind while they were still alive?

I'm wondering if Subject 16's Truth video will play a role in the nexus. Alta´r's library is supposed to contain huge information about the origins of the Assassin Order and what happened to TWCB. I'm thinking the origins of the Assassins may have something to do with Adam and Eve, especially since the origin of the Templars was hinted at being the Mark of Cain shown in the Brothers puzzle in AC2. One of Alta´r's last Codex entries says "I know the truth now" and goes on to mention the Prophet for the first time. Perhaps he finally sees the full Truth vision that Subject 16 saw part of and it leads him to build the library. Maybe Ezio will see the same memory when he enters the library, and Desmond will see the same vision.

orionsrise
07-12-2011, 09:30 AM
Just to clarify I do believe that the temples are constructed to protect earth from a cataclysm. They were built jointly by man and TWCB. What has bothered me is why the old race would bother when they were dying out anyways. There was a split among them half wanting to exterminate the humans and the ones who set aside violence and built the temples. Why all the trouble to save us when they are gone? Thats why I put forth the first theory. Thats all for now folks keep the thread alive cause I love the speculatio.