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J.M.LLOYD
07-11-2006, 07:08 PM
Hi All. This is a request for any information regarding the jet sim WINGS OVER EUROPE,[COLD WAR GONE HOT] has anyone gone over to the Dark side and given it a go Thanks Jeff

SkyChimp
07-11-2006, 07:19 PM
I've got WoE. I'm bored with FB so I've been playing WoE mostly. It's definately a cool game. It's simply not as immersive as FB, but good nonetheless. I've added a lot of 3rd party a/c. The FJ-3 Fury and F-86F are my favorites.

SkyChimp
07-11-2006, 07:48 PM
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/sabre.jpg

J.M.LLOYD
07-11-2006, 07:52 PM
Thanks Sky Chimp, I might give it a go. jeff.

LEXX_Luthor
07-11-2006, 07:59 PM
WoE, StrikeFighters webboard ~> http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/

SkyChimp::
It's simply not as immersive as FB,...
Out of box, true. The default control and grafix settings are horribly conservative, which you can ramp up to create a far more immersive sim than FB, in many respects. The best "dogfights" I ever had were in StrikeFighters, especially when you ramp up the dark Gothic grafix lighting and the rather slow out-of-box View and Zoom control speeds (both critical in a dogfight). I'm trying to convert the sim, actually StrikeFighters which WoE is derived from, into strategic strike/intercept simulation, which is difficult, as the SF series is a tactical combat sim (aren't they all?). For example, there is no ground control intercept for AI interceptors, and I'm having to make my own, much larger, strategic sized maps, with a very nice terrain tool created by developer TK. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/c00af430.jpg

I made the cirrus clouds. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The more realistic sun is a work in progress. The contrails are heavily modded, since I could never get them to display properly from all viewing angles.

F-106 and cockpit by Pasko and Team. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-11-2006, 08:08 PM
I'd do anything to fly an F-86 against a MiG-15 in a dogfight.

That screenshot looks really cool.

shinden1974
07-11-2006, 08:08 PM
Lexx influenced me into trying it out a while back and I can't say I regret it. It's the modern incarnation of ATF and USNF, and that's not a bad thing in my book. The plane list (all free mods) rivals Il-2 and TK is very accessible.

SkyChimp
07-11-2006, 08:31 PM
Wings Over Europe is pretty new. I had Strike Fighters which I modded the heck out of and it looked really good. I'll do the same with WoE as i can.

http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/thud1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/thud2.jpg
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/phantom.jpg

SkyChimp
07-11-2006, 08:59 PM
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/mig.jpg

The Mig-15 and the F-86F seem to be very correct with respect to their performance advantages.

The Migs tend to climb in combat and can pull away from the Sabre in a climb. The Sabre can run down the MiG in a long chase. The Sabre can generally out turn the MiG. High speed stall does not seem to be modelled well, though.

LEXX_Luthor
07-11-2006, 09:20 PM
I always loved MiG cammo of various nations, very exotic.

SkyChimp, try to mod yourself up a classic Formosan F-86 vs Chinese MiG-17 scenario over China we read about at ACIG, and if you must, mod the early SF sidewinder to be highly effective corresponding to the cold air at very high altitudes.

An SF Formosa/China campaign would be interesting, extending from 1940s to the 21st Century; over 50 years and still going like Duracell Bunny.

For the Old Timer flight simmers who think early sidewinders were "unreliable" because of their use at low altitudes in Vietnam, go here...

...half way down, under Arrival of the Snakes ~> http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_145.shtml


The air battle on 24 September actually signalized the end of the contest in the air, then €" with their fighters having an advantage in high-altitude performance, but acting as perfect targets for CNAF Sidewinder-armed Sabres when flying that high and in a straight line, and also being at a considerable disadvantage when attempting to manoeuvre against the Sabre at a lower level €" the Chinese pilots subsequently became much more careful when engaging in air combats. They could not know if all or only some of Nationalist F-86s were armed with AIM-9Bs and consequently had to expect a sudden attack from any of them. Furthermore the PLAAF could not know the performance of the AIM-9B at lower levels: it only knew that <span class="ev_code_yellow">the missile functioned perfectly at high altitudes</span>, where aircraft could not manoeuvre very hard because of the rare air.

papotex
07-11-2006, 10:29 PM
guys, someone moded the clouds and they are now
some of the best clouds in a sim.

look at this thread:
http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....topic;f=145;t=004157 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=145;t=004157)

download the mod and then go down to the thread of POLAK he did some changes to the mod and now the clouds are incredible

woofiedog
07-11-2006, 10:47 PM
SkyChimp... I already have WoV... can the two games Wov & WoE be combined???

LEXX_Luthor
07-11-2006, 11:17 PM
I believe you can merge something. I'm not sure exactly what. Goto the ThirdWire board link posted above and get yourself on it.

I don't really know much about WoE except I can't use it with its new avionics70 file which does not have ground mapping radar, which I depend on. However, I'll probably get WoE for the British Hunter cockpit -- a true First in combat flight simulation -- and what looks like great terrain tiles I need for my maps, as I can't make decent terrain tiles.

woofiedog
07-12-2006, 01:06 AM
LEXX_Luthor... Thank's for the reply.

Bremspropeller
07-12-2006, 06:29 AM
Luthor, do you have any link to a map-building tool or something?

I'd like to create my own maps and bases since the normal ones lack a bit of immersion like Chimpster said.

Your contrails also look very promising http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
07-12-2006, 10:00 AM
BremsP::
Luthor, do you have any link to a map-building tool or something?
CombatAce website, run by USAFMTL and Team, is the primary English language website for StrikeFighters series downloads (also other sims including FB/PF). Terrain Editor, made by the developer ThirdWire, is found under the CombatAce SF/WoV Terrain section.

CombatAce ~> http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?act=home

To see a hint of what terrain creation requires, there is a basic "first steps" introduction to Terrain Editor at Major Lee's website, under StrikeFighters/Utilities/Construction School

~> http://www.majorleesaerodrome.net/

It does not cover everything needed, so you could go here...

~> http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=8781
~~> http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=55;t=006981


Terrain creation is an involved hobby itself, and its best you sign up at the one of the SF boards, notably teh simhq...its very active, matching this webboard in webboard interaction.

~> http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=145

Until you get really into terrain creation, if ever (*), you may wish to find replacement tiles. For example, there are replacement 3rd Party terrain tiles that make a world of difference to the Vietnam sim WoV.

------

(*) As an example of the weirdness, I can't make decent terrain tiles for even my own StrikeFighters map I'm working on now, so I depend on and modify the work of others. This is one reason I'm looking forward to getting the new WoE, as the terrain tiles look great in the screenshots I have seen.

SkyChimp
07-12-2006, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by woofiedog:
SkyChimp... I already have WoV... can the two games Wov & WoE be combined???

Like Lexx said, i think there is something you can do, but I haven tried.

I don't have WoV. I have Strike Fighters and WoE. I copied all my planes from SF into WoE.

LEXX_Luthor
07-12-2006, 08:29 PM
Chimp, get WoV for the NAVY planes. F-8s, A-7s, A-6 is fantastic, and a simple file number changes lets you look out the (navy) starboard cockpit window. F-105 with amazing stock cockpit is my fave stock plane, but you already have that in WoE. I'm a J-75 Fanboy.

The WoV A-7 cockpit has Everything...RWR, ground mapping/terrain avoidance radar, and moving map display. WoE does not have the ground radar however, so I pile all my WoV aircrafts into the SF.

The 3rd Party F-106 cockpit has moving map display -- smooth. I'm a J-75 Fanboy.

UberDemon
07-12-2006, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by woofiedog:
SkyChimp... I already have WoV... can the two games Wov & WoE be combined???

Yes. If you have WoV installed, when you install WoE, it will ask you if you want to merge the planes and campaign from WoV into WoE... it is seamless, and works very well...

I also know how to merge the old Desert campaign and F-104 and Hercules from Strike Fighters Proj 1 into WoE, but that is something I did as a personal challenge and that is not supported by Third Wire.

This series is surprisingly well done. I enjoy it much. Quite a different environment, and I like the dynamic missions. It is a completely different animal from IL-2 series, but it is very nice and entertaining.

woofiedog
07-13-2006, 01:45 PM
UberDemon, LEXX_Luthor, SkyChimp...

Thank's for the information... look's like a up coming trip to the local Gaming Store for WoE! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

By the way SkyChimp... Mint Screen Shot's.

Malik_VII
07-13-2006, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by woofiedog:
SkyChimp... I already have WoV... can the two games Wov & WoE be combined???

If you have WoV installed then install WoE it will ask if you want to merge the two. I have done this and then you can uninstall WoV. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bremspropeller
07-13-2006, 03:07 PM
I also made a few WoV screenshots.

First a couple of F-4B shots (VF-21 Freelancers - on Yankee Station with USS Midway):
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7172/img000244sn.jpg
in the "Groove"

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3092/img000251rk.jpg
Trap!

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/1728/img000275gx.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6469/img000284gx.jpg

And now a F-4B shot - this time a VF-92 "Silver Kings" bird:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6596/img000304uu.jpg

Sturmtrooper
07-13-2006, 04:29 PM
I've been thinking about getting into a jet combat sim for a while now, so I have a question for you all:

Which is better, Falcon 4.0 Allied Force or Wings over Europe ?

Thanks.

UberDemon
07-13-2006, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Sturmtrooper:
I've been thinking about getting into a jet combat sim for a while now, so I have a question for you all:

Which is better, Falcon 4.0 Allied Force or Wings over Europe ?

Thanks.

That is a subject to interpretation I guess... Falcon has a huge following and a lot of improved mods... Allied Force is also really great. Another good point is that it contains a lot of good reference on the weapon systems, such as the SA SAM family, etc... So, in Falcon, you get to enjoy more advanced weapons as well, such as AMRAAM. In WoE the best you can work with is the AIM-7 Sparrow SARH.

But as far as playability, I find the WoE/WoV/SFP1 just way too much fun. I love being able to fly those planes that were in between WW2/Korea and modern times. The planes had a lot of spirit on them... something about going head to head on a F-100 against a MiG-17 or MiG-19 that isnt comparable to anything else. Gun vs Gun, and early Sidewinders... Ok, I gotta go...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sturmtrooper
07-13-2006, 06:05 PM
Thanks for the reply Uberdemon.

One more question to anyone who knows:
Does WoE/WoV support TIR ?

Thanks.

Stoepsel_31
07-14-2006, 04:01 AM
Looks like this "Bremspropeller" has gone in style http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

leitmotiv
07-15-2006, 02:34 PM
Yes, they do support TrackIR, Sturmtrooper.

SkyChimp and Lexx_Luthor---where did you get the add-on F-86, MiG-15, and F-106?

I have WOV and am crazy about it---looks like I'll have to get WOE.

Sturmtrooper
07-15-2006, 05:57 PM
Thank you for the reply leitmotiv !

It looks like WoV and WoE for me.

SkyChimp
07-15-2006, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:

SkyChimp and Lexx_Luthor---where did you get the add-on F-86, MiG-15, and F-106?



http://forum.combatace.com

You have to register

leitmotiv
07-15-2006, 06:40 PM
Great---now a chance to get some massive payback for all the times I've been nailed in a F-105 over Hanoi by going after MiG-15s with F-86s---thanks SkyChimp. Grr Grr.

LEXX_Luthor
07-15-2006, 10:01 PM
Column5 has additional aircraft, specifically early to middle Cold War, and lots of them ~> http://www.column5.us/aircraft.shtml

Yak-28 bomber and interceptor would make a good addition to WoE, with some very heavy modding I suggest using the new Su-15 cockpit for the Yaks.

Su-15 at Boopidoo Aerospace ~> http://www.aerospace.boopidoo.com/

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/28d614d1.jpg

Also good for the fictional WoE campaign is Lightning, F-5A to bail out the early gunless Phantoms, F-104, F-111, Buccaneer coming soon over the SF, etc...

Note: With the latest SP4 Patch which is equal to WoE, the Su-15 radar does not work but its an easy fix. Just change the blank black radar.tga with a blank black radar.bmp file. A number of aircraft, F-111 for example, that use tga files for radar need bmp files instead.

Discussion on this here ~> http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2317&start=16

I forgot where to get the F-111 cockpit, but its a German website, and its amazing.

F-94B interceptor is absolutely sweet with a very nice gun radar.

Yak-28s can be found at Major Lee's place ~> http://www.majorleesaerodrome.net/

leitmotiv
07-16-2006, 07:10 AM
OK, gents, you have sold me---ordered both WOE and STRIKE FIGHTERS. Now, let me get this straight, I will be installing the Korean War add-on into SF as well as the F-106, correct? And, as of now, there isn't anything for WOE, correct? Will also be installing LEXX_Luthor's cirrus onto SF, right? I will be looking forward to hunting Sov bombers with the 106---Bear hunting! Where is the best source to patch up SF to its last patch? Thanks for all the tips. Like SkyChimp, I'm bored stiff with IL-2 COMPLETE (have been flying Lancasters on FS9 and CFS3 I've been so bored).

ojcar1971
07-16-2006, 09:48 AM
Korea is a MUST HAVE. There are two Korean mods. First add the Korea add on (the UN thing), and then add Red falcon (the URSS, China campaings). Then with a little modding, you can add A-26B Invader, Firefly, Sea Fury, Skynight....

BorisGruschenko
07-16-2006, 12:37 PM
I got a copy of Wings over Vietnam yesterday. Not bad and way better than Strike fighters project which I uninstalled after half an hour back in 2004. I would like to add the downloadable F-104-C to "WoV" though. As the F-104-C seems to depend on the F-104-G data from Strike fighters, I downloaded the cat.-extractor as just copying the files from one game to the other obviously doesn´t work. Anyone here could give me a hand as for which files to extract into which folder ? I´m really looking for enlightenment, help really appreciated.

ojcar1971
07-16-2006, 01:11 PM
SFP1 and WoV have exactly the same engine. With the mods an new 3º party campaings (Falklands, Yom Kippur, Cuba, Taiwan and many others) is as good as WoV (or even better). For technical questions, try this link http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?act=home
If you like WoV, download the Aces over North Vietnam campaing in combatace and try to survive in a Mig 17, 19 or 21 (requires separated install)

LEXX_Luthor
07-16-2006, 05:34 PM
If anybody has problems with very slow default view and zoom controls, you can radically ramp them up so it feels like a totally new sim. Same with the dark Goth lighting.

Control speeds can be ramped up in an encrypted file called VIEWLIST.ini

Enviro lighting and sun, stars, etc... can be ramped up in ENVIRONMENTSYSTEM. These files must be "extracted" with Cat Extractor available at the CombatAce website. Its a long process getting into this sim and modding it heavily, but I got started during one of those loooong "2 week" periods waiting for FB Patch, and never went back once I saw what I could do to ramp up the SF sim.

Best to sign up at the publisher's (ThirdWire) webboard and ask there ~> http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/

Also, I think most of the people I have turned onto SF always asks how to disable the "flying transition" between aircraft as you cycle through aircraft in external view. This is "kewl" camera effect the first time you see it, but then after your first time, you want to turn it off instead of waiting and waiting for the next aircraft to come into view.

VIEWLIST::

[ViewClass004]
ViewClassName=ExternalViewClass
:
:
SmoothPositionTransition=TRUE
:
:
Change to =FALSE and your external view snaps to Next Aircraft, just like in the movies... er..the FB/PF. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Example of improved lighting...I was looking for the "gold" bluish effect when the sun is low in the clear cold winter sky...
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/7acdcbc5.jpg

The cirrus clouds are a rather "hardcore" mod, so put that last on your list of things to do. I don't think it can be used with the publisher's SF campaign engine (I never tried SF campaigns yet), since that campaign generator does not generate missions that you can edit, at least I don't think. But if you can use Kreelin's Mission Designer or Le-Missioneur (another new mission builder), or manually edit existing mission text files, the cirrus are easy to use. I eventually intend on making a new campaign engine, at least for strategic strike/interception, that does create mission text files that can be edited.

leitmotiv
07-16-2006, 06:31 PM
Thanks, LEXX_Luthor---I am briskly getting the "drill." Will not have SF for a few days. I went to Column5 and downloaded a great many aircraft. Thanks for all the tips.

Thanks, ojcar1971. I am going to install both Korean add-ons to SF. For the North Viet aces for WOV, what exactly is meant by a "separate install"---will this be a discrete program separate from WOV? Exactly how is this done?

ojcar1971
07-17-2006, 09:46 AM
For the Korean add ons you can get both of them simultaneously in the same SFP1
For the Aces of North Vietnam campaing, you have to do a complete install of the game with this add on, and if you like, other fresh install of the game for the american campaings. Don't worry, it's all explained in the readme of the Aces of North Vietnam campaing

leitmotiv
07-17-2006, 11:20 AM
Thank you, ojcar1971. I installed it last year and was aghast to see what happened to WOV---thought the program had been overrun by the North Vietnamese ministry of propaganda and deleted it! I understand now!

LEXX_Luthor
07-18-2006, 05:57 AM
Early this year, I saved this forum shot for future PC software Historians. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/54cdf437.jpg

F-106 and Su-15, a real Sukhoi, were always my fave planes -- following the original goal since the Wright Brothers of Higher, Faster, Farther, and they finally made it into the Sims. Just need the game engine to support strategic offense and air defense operations. The strategic combat flight sim Target For Tonight -- RAF Bomber Command vs Reich Defense -- was going to be like this, with full night combat operations modeled, but was cancelled. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

leitmotiv
07-18-2006, 01:08 PM
I wondered why the TARGET site abruptly went west, LEXX_Luthor---sorry to read it is finis. I will be up in a 106 and Su-15 as soon as my SF arrives. Have any advice on the patches I should apply to SF? I'm a little uncertain which ones to use. I had to buy the old SF, not the UK Gold version---any problems with XP using the old version? Many thanks.

Aaron_GT
07-18-2006, 02:35 PM
Much as I want to cut down on PC gaming to concentrate on 'real life' this sim does look interesting, but where can you get it in Europe?

LEXX_Luthor
07-18-2006, 02:49 PM
Many get the SF series in Europe, players and modders. Ask at the links below.

Answers about Life, The Universe, StrikeFighters, etc... are at the Developer's webboard ~> http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/

...or teh sinhq ~> http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=145


I had read a wonderful interview with TargetForTonight developer, back before cancellation, and yes they were talking about how to model night operations. I'll see if I can find that interview. It was truly Aw-sim.

leitmotiv
07-18-2006, 03:56 PM
I read that interview two years ago, LEXX_Luthor, and I was sold on what those people were doing 100%. A real pity it folded. Thanks for the links. First job after I get SF is go after some of those add-on Badgers with the 106. B-47 hunting with the Su-15 next.

LEXX_Luthor
07-18-2006, 04:27 PM
As discussed on the ThirdWire Su-15 thread, if you are running Service Patch 4 level SF/WoV or Wings Over Europe, don't forget to fix the Su-15 (and some others') radars by replacing the blank black radar tga file with a blank black bmp file.

leitmotiv
07-18-2006, 10:46 PM
Reinstalled WOV patched and Direct X'ed up to date, and installed WOE and its patches. Immediately tried out the Hunter in a 1960 bomber interception. Interesting to be doing the intercepting for once! Very good, indeed. Amazed at the scant ammo. Like the new clouds etc. By the way, LEXX_Luthor, is it possible to graft a SF F-104 onto WOV/E? Looking forward to SF's arrival---have everything ready for it. Thank you for the Su-15 tip. Cheers, Happy Customer

LEXX_Luthor
07-19-2006, 03:27 PM
Every plane is compatible with every sim in the series. Just beware of WoE as it uses a new avionics file with new "modern" features but no classical ground mapping/avoidance radar, so planes that have ground radar (F-111 series for example) can't use it in WoE which is a shame.

Ernst_Rohr
07-19-2006, 03:44 PM
You guys won me over as well, I have a copy of WoV and WoE coming from Amazon as well. I also bookmarked several of the links here, some really nice stuff there!

LEXX_Luthor
07-19-2006, 04:55 PM
mmm, I might have been wrong (typical) -- the old avionics "60" file and new "70" file in WoE might both be usable in WoE, but not together. Thus, perhaps F-111 could have ground radar in WoE.

I'm not the one to ask anything about the WoE since I don't have it yet. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

leitmotiv
07-19-2006, 07:42 PM
Looking forward to using the F-104. All of these "ancient" jets were the first line when I was a boy. F-104 was probably my favorite because it looked like a Disney space ship.

SkyChimp
07-19-2006, 08:00 PM
The first airshow I remember attending was back in the early '70s, when F-104s were still in service in NG units (I think). I remember seeing a F-104 and walking up and running my hand along the leading edge of the wing. I remember it being sharp. I remember an F-105 being there with a red star kill marking.

leitmotiv
07-19-2006, 08:05 PM
When I read about the Thud offensive over Route Pack Six during the 'sixties when I was in high school, I became fascinated by the huge Republic beasts and their incredibly brave pilots. I buy every book written by Vietnam Thud drivers. The story of those guys would make the greatest flying film since HELL'S ANGELS but Hollywood will never make it.

LEXX_Luthor
07-19-2006, 09:11 PM
When I was a squish, I saw one of the last appearances of the F-106 before retirement (mid-80s). The pilot couldn't get the antique started so the Mech rolled out external starter cart. It was really cool; they roped us off a mere ~100 feet from the -106 as it started up. Pilot takes off and vanishes in the distance, then there's a dot low in the sky and he passes overhead about 400 feet above us, triangle blotting out the sky, and pulls the pure white jet steep into a deep blue classical jet-age wispy-white cirrus sunny sky -- the perfect sky for one of the last -106 airshows -- and lights the afterburner (flame first, sound later). After the landing, we talked to pilot and mech, and they seemed like one man, one mind, one soul, they really loved that plane.

I've never been to any other airshow. Why? What's the point? There are no more airshows since they retired the F-106. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

leitmotiv
07-19-2006, 10:11 PM
Elegant piece, LEXX_Luthor.

You reminded me of an ancient event---around about 1960 or earlier my uncle took me to a Colorado USAF base to see an air show. All I can recall was the low fly past of a couple fighters breaking the sound barrier (was way out in the middle of nowhere, and, anyway, there were no restrictions on supersonic flight in those days). I was suitably impressed by the crash boom. The event which made the biggest impression was, again, in Colorado over the little city of Greeley. A friend and I were in one of the local parks and we saw a B-58 in what appeared to be a death dive heading right for a residential area. We were terrified and unable to move. Suddenly the silver beast pulled out and rocketed into the "central blue." Slack-jawed we stood there wondering if we were hallucinating.

leitmotiv
07-20-2006, 03:16 PM
Installed and used "Aces of North Vietnam" mod for WOV. Very interesting. Own side nearly blew me out of the sky with AAA when I tried to land. The MiG-21 was clearly the maximum solution dogfighter---what an airplane! The MiG-17 was like a go-cart at the Indy 500---what a wheezer.

LEXX_Luthor
07-21-2006, 10:42 PM
Installed and used "Aces of North Vietnam" mod for WOV. Very interesting. Own side nearly blew me out of the sky with AAA when I tried to land. The MiG-21 was clearly the maximum solution dogfighter---what an airplane! The MiG-17 was like a go-cart at the Indy 500---what a wheezer.
Using the new MiG-21 cockpits by Mirage Factory?

Good read...

Epilogue::

:
:
In the first event, a Su-7 and a MiG-21 conducted simulated air combat, an exhilarating display of tight maneuvering in which the Su-7, given the limitations of the airspace, obviously more than held its own. Commencing combat at about 560 mph (900 km/h) at low lever, with pre-set call conditions primarily because the MiG-21 has an instant re-light on reheat whilst the Su-7 needs 6-7 seconds for afterburner light up), the "clean" Su-7 out-turned, out-climbed and out accelerated the MiG-21, the critical factor of power reserve standing out in the Sukhoi's favour.

In the close-in turning fight, the MiG-21 had to repeatedly converts its turn into the vertical plane in order to keep the Su-7 within range. Dropping speed, in low-speed maneuvers, the MiG-21 eventually gained the advantage owing to the better aileron control offered by its delta wing by comparison with the highly swept wings of the Su-7, aileron control of which starts to fade and necessitates excess rudder being employed. Of course, owing to the Su-7's high fuel consumption in the full re-heat regime (794 lbs./360 kg per min) engagement time was short, but the Su-7 could disengage at will.

This factor has proved critical in actual combat as, in such circumstances as those simulated, all external stores, including fuel drop tanks, are jettisoned, leaving only internal fuel and therefore strictly limiting time on task. The second event involved cannon and rocket attacks by Su-7s against ground targets.
:
:

~ http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/Aircraft/Su-7.html

I use ArmourDave's first class Su-17 pit for Su-7.

leitmotiv
07-22-2006, 12:16 AM
Where can I find a first-class Su-7? Now I am eager to try one against a Pakistani F-104 and vice versa! Actually prefer the Atoll-packing MiG-19 to the MiG-21 after catching and blasting a hapless F-4 with one (the Atolls failed to track at close range, but the Phantom was turning---tried cannon at closer range and the twin 30s disintegrated the F-4). I am now a "Commie Rat." It seems to be more maneuverable in all aspects than the redoubtable 21. Will get the new 21 cockpit. Thanks much.

LEXX_Luthor
07-22-2006, 01:17 AM
SF has an Su-7, stock AI, don't know about WoE but it logically should. Use the very detailed Su-17 cockpit here...

by ArmourDave ~> http://www.armourdave.com/

You can Windex clean the canopy glass, but in this case its not so easy, and darken the white mirror blanks for night missions if you fly with mirrors OFF, and other stuff. Ask over at ThirdWire for this kind of deep stuff.

Check CombatAce addon cockpit section for cockpits for several early and late variants of the -21. They can be very different. The first 13F version is kinda different because its got only the front canopy frame, like F-16 or something modern.

F-86H vs MiG-19 evaluation, very interesting ~> http://sabre-pilots.org/classics/v23les.htm

james_ander
07-22-2006, 05:53 AM
How is mission building in this sim? I haven't played for awhile their were a couple mission editors which were ok. I was wondering if anything better had come out.

leitmotiv
07-22-2006, 04:42 PM
Wow, LEXX_Luthor, you are a continuing source of greatness! Fascinating article---reminded me of the F-86 as a Fw 190 to the MiG's WWII Yak. Still awaiting SF.

LEXX_Luthor
07-22-2006, 08:39 PM
There are several mission editors for the SF series. I use Kreelin's mission designer (KMD).

-

Just in: This is a nice surprise...

~> http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....topic;f=145;t=004344 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=145;t=004344)

leitmotiv
07-22-2006, 10:08 PM
Vooooodooooo! No flyable Sov aircraft in WOE. RAF has two Harriers, a Phantom, and a Hunter. US has same mix as WOV with F-15A and A-10. Air/land battles donnybrooks with US Abrams's shooting it out with Sov tanks, SAMs flying, AAA, A-10s and other ground attack aircraft attacking ground targets, and air-to-air brawling---a lot busier than WOV.

woofiedog
07-23-2006, 12:34 AM
LEXX_Luthor... Thank's for all the information and tip's.

Final figured out how to use the New Weapon's Pack... couldn't have been easier.

Really like the B-47E... they did a Beauty of a Job on this Bird.

Well I'm going to check a couple local stores today for WoE.

Again Thank's for all the Help and Info. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

woofiedog
07-23-2006, 12:43 AM
leitmotiv... I don't know if you like bomber's or large fighter's... but you might want to check out the Yak-28 Bird's at CombatAce... they have three Excellent versions.
Very Nice ride's http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

leitmotiv
07-23-2006, 02:00 AM
Thanks for the tip, woofiedog; I like fighters and bombers. Glad to see the B-47 is superb. This is rather odd, but, when I installed WOE, there was a flyable MiG-23---I tried it. But, now, two days later, I can't find it. Perhaps it was deleted when I installed the updates. Odd business.

woofiedog
07-23-2006, 03:10 AM
leitmotiv... At the moment I'm still running WoV... hopefully be adding WoE with the merge soon.
As far as the loss of the Mig-23... can't say for sure.
But there are Mig-23 addon's at Combatace and five Mig-23 models at http://www.column5.us/aircraft.shtml posted earlier by LEXX_Luthor.

Slickun
07-23-2006, 04:07 PM
Anyone found an F-101 model?

BTW, this game, (WOE/WOV/SF) is just flat-out fun.

leitmotiv
07-23-2006, 04:41 PM
See LEXX_Luthor at top of page, Slickun. Thanks, Woofiedog, looking forward to your take on WOE---I have it merged with WOV, and I have "Aces of North Vietnam" installed over another WOV.

leitmotiv
07-24-2006, 06:14 PM
SF finally arrived today. Now I'm in business.

LEXX_Luthor
07-25-2006, 08:19 AM
woofiedog::
Really like the B-47E... they did a Beauty of a Job on this Bird.
There are some great Cold War bombers made. I love the B-58 too and its super detailed external model. Use the free roaming camera to take a trip inside the B-58 model's crew compartment. I have moved the WoV A-7 cockpit -- with everything (ground radar, RWR display, moving map display) into the B-58 external model. It works wonders, even painted up a bit the B-58 skin area which represents the roof and sides of the inside crew compartment. B-58 seems to have had a white roof inside.

White roof ~ http://www.xs4all.nl/~mvburen/b-58/molehole/dirga/17.htm (http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Emvburen/b-58/molehole/dirga/17.htm)
Xcellent B-58 pic website ~> http://www.xs4all.nl/~mvburen/b-58/ (http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Emvburen/b-58/)


For the SF -58, note the 3D structure on the canopy struts, and they change lighting relative to the sun.

~> http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/91d97865.jpg

~> http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/db278455.jpg

~> http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/02163ec3.jpg

That last one is a Paused game shot, with free view camera moved into the 2nd crew compartment next to the port window -- sorry left window this is AIR FORCE. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif This shot makes you think, if the strategic underwater interceptor Silent Hunter series is popular with flight simmers, so would a strike/intercept air war sim with detailed electronic warfare modelling.

Divine-Wind
07-25-2006, 09:07 AM
I would KILL to have a highly detailed interceptor/electronic warfare flight sim.

Slickun
07-25-2006, 09:34 AM
"fleet Defender" by Microprose had a very detailed F-14 backseater slice. You used the radar to target the AiM-54's at long range. It was very very cool.

leitmotiv
07-25-2006, 11:29 AM
Er, LEXX_Luthor or woofiedog, I placed the Column5 aircraft in my SF Objects/Aircraft folder and nothing happened---have any ideas? Argh.

woofiedog
07-25-2006, 01:36 PM
leitmotiv... Which aircraft are you trying to use... and I'll run you through a couple. There are few that I have problems with also... but over all should be able to help you out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Send me a PM... and I'll be off duty tomorrw morning. "EST"

I went out to local stores yesterday... but didn't have any Luck finding a WoE edition.
Guess I'll have to go online and place an order.

woofiedog
07-25-2006, 01:37 PM
Slickun... Sounds like you having Too Much Fun! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

woofiedog
07-25-2006, 01:49 PM
LEXX_Luthor... Thank's for information.

Over the week-end I downloaded the B-58 and have it up and running.

Another Excellent job from the people programing these War Bird's... but I'll have to try out the camera.

Again Thank's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

leitmotiv
07-25-2006, 02:11 PM
Thanks a million, woofiedog---will do!

mortoma1958
07-25-2006, 02:49 PM
What all software-wise does one need to get this sim going??? Money-wise too???

Xiolablu3
07-25-2006, 02:55 PM
I have been playing WOE CWGH.

Its good for fun, but hte missions get a bit repetative after a while.

It only takes 1 20mm cannon hit to kill a tank.

Its more an arcade game than a sim, but good fun all the same. See if you can pick it up on budget.

woofiedog
07-25-2006, 02:59 PM
mortoma1958... You can find WoV or WoE [not in Worcester area stores at the moment http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif] in most local stores in the states.
I saw WoV for $29 dollars yesterday... although you might find a used one cheaper with a bit of looking.

SF's the older game... I haven't seen around lately... online is the best bet.

The addon's are downloaded from Combatace or other sites.

Sharpe26
07-26-2006, 04:37 AM
try looking on ebay for all three games. I managed to get WOE through there. I beat one of the A10 campaigns and am now trying the other aircraft.

Also about WOV, try a realistic tour of duty by flying a 100 mission campaign.

leitmotiv
07-26-2006, 02:21 PM
Have to disagree with the characterization of this series as "arcade", Xiolablu3X! Have you tried WOV on the Hard settings (which are "full realism")? I have probably shot down 10 N Viet aircraft in the year and a half I've had it. Seeing them before they blow you up is a major challenge in addition to the SAMs. Playing the other side with "Aces of North Vietnam" is easier in that you can usually see the Yanks with their smoke trails, and a kill is possible, but, in '72, anyway, I'm usually killed in my MiG-19 right after making my notch. I consider it to be the hardest combat flight sim in my stable. Learning how to use the Phantom's radar and how to use the Sparrows is quite a challenge. The sim perfectly replicates the extreme difficuty of using radar-guided and heat-seeking missiles in the period. Whenever I am believing I'm pretty hot in IL-2, I switch to WOV as the American and am quickly humiliated. Gave me a remarkable insight into what the American pilots were up against in this transitional period air war.

P.S. Does anybody know exactly how the U.S. Vietnam-era radar warning receiver works? I am confused by the various sounds and symbols on the dial. I would like to know what is going on so I can quit taking evasive action each time I hear a SAM call!

LEXX_Luthor
07-26-2006, 02:57 PM
leitmotiv::
Does anybody know exactly how the U.S. Vietnam-era radar warning receiver works? I am confused by the various sounds and symbols on the dial. I would like to know what is going on so I can quit taking evasive action each time I hear a SAM call!

If this link works for you, found through a search if I recall, its a brief tutorial on Radar and RWR use. Scroll down for the RWR

~> http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1679&highlight=

The more inner the ring the blip shows up on, the higher the threat. Outer ring is just SAM radars searching, looking.

leitmotiv
07-26-2006, 04:20 PM
You made my day, LEXX_Luthor---that was the last mystery I needed solved for WOV.

woofiedog
07-27-2006, 06:42 AM
LEXX_Luthor... This link clear up a lot of my quesions also about the Sparrow & Shrike missiles.

Thank's for the info! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

leitmotiv
07-27-2006, 06:30 PM
The Korean War add-on for SF seems excellent so far, although the Skyraider seems wayyyyy too lively.

Does anybody know where I find the Korean terrain needed for this add-on---can't find it anywhere?!

LEXX_Luthor
07-27-2006, 07:46 PM
Glad to be of some help fellas/fellattes.

leitmotiv::
The Korean War add-on for SF seems excellent so far,...

Korean terrain...---can't find it anywhere?!
This does not compute. You don't have it, but you like it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Korea terrains (summer/winter) here ~> http://www.majorleesaerodrome.net/

I thought 3rd Party campaignes were busted with the new Service Pack 4. I don't know anything about SF series' campaigns, and that's why you are better off poasting at the SF boards for some questions.

leitmotiv
07-27-2006, 07:56 PM
I am able to play it but the terrain is the stock desert terrain of SF. Thanks for the terrain lead.

LEXX_Luthor
07-28-2006, 12:47 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


I am able to play it but the terrain is the stock desert terrain of SF.
Wow, I didn't know you could do that.

leitmotiv
07-28-2006, 02:02 AM
Neither did I 'til I did it. Can't get missions or campaign to work---perhaps these were nixed by the latest patches? No huge loss---having a good time brawling in very early jets. Very happy they have a Panther and Meteor in addition to the F-86s.

Bo_Nidle
07-28-2006, 10:16 AM
I just got a new rig and this thread inspired me to reload "Wings Over Vietnam". I'm glad I did as after a shed load of mods and ramped the graphics up to max and it doesn't look half bad. Its not "IL2" but it will suffice.

Besides the F-4 is my favourite jet and this thing has loads of 'em. I may even try skinning here too.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/VF96F4.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/Showtime100.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/F4.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/Gomers.jpg

The terrain lets it down at low altitude and the water is awful, but the mod community has some nice work on offer. Very cool to see the dust cloud as a SAM2 launches, not so cool when you realsie how fast the things go and how many there are!

Now if only Oleg would do the F-4........

leitmotiv
07-28-2006, 10:35 AM
I like it because they got the history and technology right. Unlike IL-2, the sim plays out tactically like the real campaign. Biggest lack---no mid-air refueling---completely sabotages flying takeoff to landing missions with the Thailand strike jets. No major loss---just going Downtown is a huge challenge in itself. Loverly screenshots.

woofiedog
07-29-2006, 02:56 AM
Bo_Nidle Quote... "I may even try skinning here too."

I'll be looking forward to these... also Excellent Screen Shots. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


leitmotiv... Have you tried out any of the Helicopters yet? One Hec of a Blast!

Bo_Nidle
07-29-2006, 04:31 AM
Anybody help me out here? I want to use the "Aces of North Vietnam " mod for WoV but it says I have to do a seperate install of WoV to use the mod, howvever I have no clue how to do this and when i tried the WoV disk just thinks I want to uninstall WoV.

Can anyone assist in this procedure please?

mrsiCkstar
07-29-2006, 04:57 AM
could someone kind enough perhaps post some screenies from the cockpits from this game? Namely the F-4 and the A-6

pretty please? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

leitmotiv
07-29-2006, 06:10 AM
Here is how I did it, Bo_Nidle. I did a combined install of WOE and WOV and then I installed WOV again---had no problem doing it this way. Here is how I did the install for "Korean Air War" for SF. I installed KAW into SF and changed the name of its folder to "Korean Air War." Then I installed SF again. I had to manually direct the install---I wasn't able to do it automatically (the "Install" clicker wouldn't work). I am not a computer ace, as you may guess!

The F-106A for SF is just fantastic---thanks for the tip, LEXX_Luthor.

LEXX_Luthor
07-29-2006, 05:00 PM
Tip:: keep a backup copy of the virgin unPatched installed 1.0 version, SF or WoV. You can copy and paste, then and Patch up and play from as many new game folders as you wish, one for each campaign if you like, and never have to install from CD again -- because you have the original in a backup folder. You need to do this because the campaigns with mods are so massive.

Bo_Nidle
07-29-2006, 05:36 PM
Thanks guys. I did it the copy, paste, rename and redirect the shortcut. Worked nicely. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

leitmotiv
07-29-2006, 07:22 PM
Cheers, Bo_Nidle, and thanks for the excellent tip, LEXX_Luthor---being a computer idiot, I am finding all this modding extremely "educational."

woofiedog
07-30-2006, 07:27 AM
Well finally picked up a copy of WoE... at my lest favorite store Best Buy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

leitmotiv
07-30-2006, 08:56 AM
I am flying the B-47, the F-106, every variety of RN/RAF Phantom, the Vampire, Mirages, Argie A-4s, F-86s and MiGs over Korea---more airplanes than I can list. All are with SF. I am like a kid in a candy shop---this is Jet Heaven.

Highly recommend:

http://www.column5.us/aircraft.shtml

Major thanks to SkyChimp and LEXX_Luthor for the info which inspired me to get SF and WOE.

Sharpe26
07-31-2006, 02:58 PM
here's a few things to try

in WOE: beat the A10 campaign (any squadron)with over a 150 ground kills and 38 air to air kills.

in WOV: 100 missions. I recommend the F105 since it has a RWR but you're welcome to try a Phantom as well.

woofiedog
08-03-2006, 03:51 AM
Slickun... A bit of info about the F-101... Strike Fighters Skunk Works. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Links:
http://skunkworks.free.fr/
http://skunkworks.free.fr/list.html
http://skunkworks.free.fr/f101.html

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/MilitaryJets/McDonnellF101.jpg

Breeze147
08-03-2006, 07:04 AM
No matter how you slice it, and I own SFP1 and WOV, without very extensive modding, it is still Bud Lite compared to a Guiness. The best jet sim ever is Janes FA/18, with the best avionics and weapons packages ever AND realistic carrier ops that the Third Wire series can never approach. The terrains are absolutely beautiful. The upgrades through Team Super Hornet are incredible.

Out of the box, the Third Wire Series is as dull as a lonely fart. If you want to look at it as a pie chart, you will spend 94.6% of your time modding, 2.4% of the time endlessly flying around, and 3% of your time being shot down within 3 seconds of an enemy engagement.

If you get a kick out of endlessly juggling files and copying this and pasting that, then the Third Wire series is for you. Myself, I would just as soon fire up the IL-2 series and fly realistic strike missions until I get tired and then switch over to "Nympho Coeds On Vacation".

LOMAC and FA/18 are so much better than the Third Wire series....well, I think the Bud Lite versus Guiness analogy says it all.

leitmotiv
08-03-2006, 07:15 AM
Charming analogy. Unfortunately, if you want to have a go at the Bridges at Toko-Ri, you can't do it in any of the exemplary items you listed. If you want to drive an F-105 Downtown or duel with MiGs in '67, you are out of luck. It's like Shockwave's BATTLE OF BRITAIN II---it is not the greatest-looking item, but it is the best we have, and I'm glad we have all of these sims because IL-2 COMPLETE gets really boring after a couple years.

Ernst_Rohr
08-03-2006, 09:24 AM
I have WoV, and WoE. Been playing on and off.

Plane models are VERY nice on some, and not so nice on others. Very often though, the not-so nice models are free third party add ons, so I cant complain about them.

Some 3rd party models howerver, are phenomenal!

Cockpits are a litte less fantastic. Some nicely done, some are very crude or subbed in from something else. Once again, a lot of them are free mods, so I can complain.

FM's are simplistic, but they do a decent enough job to get the flavor right.

If your looking for any early war jet sims, the SFP1, WoV, WoE series is the only game in town. It may not be the full on realism of LOMAC or Allied Force, but its the only game in town.

My only real complain agains the series is the terrain modelling. Getting low to move mud is kind of a let down after IL2/LOMAC/Falcon, and in the case of naval attacks, just flat out right primitive.

Im sure someone will provide a mod for it sooner or later though.

LEXX_Luthor
08-05-2006, 05:01 PM
Here's something never seen in any flight sim.

The other day I cobbled this together from various existing 3D parts and files, it works but needs tuning specifically for MiG-19PM...and using MiG-21PFM cockpit with radar for now (-21PFM also a fairly early jet).
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/560711cf.jpg

There is a classic early Cold War black & white publicity photo (or film) and I try to re-create it here...glowing sunlight reflecting off the PM's bottom.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/6fc0fda0.jpg


Ripple fire beam rider missiles. The AI can't do this though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/f5c75c2d.jpg

leitmotiv
08-05-2006, 07:59 PM
Beautiful work, as usual, LEXX_Luthor---may I suggest NATO code name "Mongrel"?! Your trademark cirrus is gorgeous.

LEXX_Luthor
08-05-2006, 08:12 PM
Composit Mongrel it is!! I used the addon nose that converts MiG-17F to PFU, add it to the stock MiG-19S model, and use the MiG-21PFM cockpit.

The beautiful work is from the real modders who made the 3D bits and crafted the original files.

leitmotiv
08-05-2006, 10:17 PM
Your modesty is all the more commendable! Regards

leitmotiv
08-07-2006, 06:15 AM
For Hard Core WOV players---go here for an ultra-mod titled (appropriately, the Thud drivers wore this patch) "Yankee Air Pirate":

http://www.yankeeairpirate.net/

Er, LEXX_Luthor is the Yak-28P an ECM aircraft? Why is it unarmed?

LEXX_Luthor
08-07-2006, 05:27 PM
-28P is a missile armed interceptor. You need R-8s from the Weapons Pac. The Su-15 cockpit works well with this one (2 engines and all -- and the same missiles).

leitmotiv
08-07-2006, 11:21 PM
Thanks much!

LEXX_Luthor
08-08-2006, 09:00 AM
I would suggest finding some reviews of Yankee Air Pirate payware. Its over 100$ total. Some discussion here...

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....topic;f=145;t=004396 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=145;t=004396)

and here...

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....topic;f=145;t=004470 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=145;t=004470)

I personally have no interest in pure ground pounding static missions, but air warfare simulation which this is not.

I'm thinking that -- to some extent -- Payware for SF will never really work until ThirdWire can "open" the stock closed dynamic campaign engine. All you can do now is superficially mod the existing campaign which as the developer said is not realistic because it is programmed to rely heavily on the player's squadron success or failure.

The only thing needed is a mission event recorder, like EVENTLOG file in FB/PF, that records all combat, surface and air, across the entire map. Totally new dynamic campaign engines -- air war simulations -- can then be programmed by 3rd Parties such as Lowengrin to create new dynamic campaign missions. Lowengrin has a dynamic campaign "editor" that edits the stock SF campaigns, but you know Lowengrin would jump on any comprehensive event log recorder to build a totally new campaign engine like he/she did for FB/PF.

Perhaps ironically, one of the most successful capitalist enterprises would be a payware Soviet cockpit addon pack. That's how the world works. British, French, and Swedish cockpits too. The "average" Roman computer gamer 2000 years ago would wanting Rowable Roman warships (ignoring Carthaginian PC gamers -- the losers), but gamers 2000 years later want to play the Carthaginian side too, much like many USA gamers enjoy flying German in WW1 sims and CFS3, EAW, and now the FB/PF.

Ancient Trireme Simulator. That's the next independent idea for military simulation after early to middle Cold War jets.

leitmotiv
08-08-2006, 09:22 AM
You preempted me, LEXX_Luthor! First, I was going to ask you if you had bought it, and second---I bought it. I had a very unpleasant time trying to set it up with WOV because the instructions are willy-nilly scattered all over. I will probably do it again because a couple things do not seem to work. I like two things right off: (1) KC-135s are provided for refueling (but right now you can only practice because actual refuelling is not ready yet), and (2) Phantom and Crusader recon aircraft are provided (but no RF-101s or Vigilantes). You can fly the KC-135 but the cockpit is a joke. Targets will have more detail. The ORISKANY class carrier is nicely done. Haven't had time to fly a mission yet. This first essay appears worth the $25 if I can get everything to work. The producers will have to get their organizational skills ship shape, and it would have been far better for computer boobs, such as I, if the install had been automatic rather than very manual.

LEXX_Luthor
08-08-2006, 09:38 AM
Interesting. So the -135 comes with the first 25$ install?

If you can do screenshots, do me a favour -- poast a screenshot of the inside EXTERNAL model crew compartment of the KC-135. Pause the game, and use the FreeCamera view to move around the game world including inside the aircraft external model.

For my own use, I use several fighter bomber cockpits (notably A-7) for large bombers. I move them inside the external model crew area. Some 3rd Party models (B-58) are amazingly detailed with 3D interior panels, others have very "simple" one-sided 2D modelling where the canopy frames become invisible from inside.

Basically, how does the -135 canopy framing look from inside the external model?

I would not mind paying for a KC-135 if has a great interior, and maybe we can convince them to sell it seperately. If not, somebody else may make it and perhaps sell it. The missions and ground objects hold no interest for me. The KC-135 does interest me, as my main interest in this sim is 3rd Party work on USAF Strategic Air Command and Soviet PVO.

leitmotiv
08-08-2006, 11:54 AM
Suffice to say, the cockpit is grotesquely incomplete. The nose is deleted and you can see the ground. The detail is just passable. The exterior model is more than satisfactory. I assume they are going to finish the -135's cockpit in a future patch. I am looking forward to topping up my Thud on the way Downtown---Route Pack Six, bombing or air-to-air is my "bag." How do I go about posting screenshots? Don't I have to subscribe to a service?

LEXX_Luthor
08-08-2006, 04:05 PM
Ya, I use Photobucket, but don't worry about it just for this unless you want to get into poasting screenshots.

leitmotiv::
Suffice to say, the cockpit is grotesquely incomplete. The nose is deleted and you can see the ground.
You can add back the nose. Look into the DATA.ini file and find [Nose] and add the line ShowFromCockpit=TRUE on the second line of that [Nose] block. For this to work, the Fuselage must also have the line set to TRUE, as the Nose is generally a "child" 3D model of the fuselage in SF series aircraft.

Its standard SF/WoV practice to use generic cockpits, and a -135 cockpit is huge undertaking, so don't assume a -135 pit is being worked on for YaP. Also, developer ThirdWire has never hinted at offering aerial refueling -- 3rd Party payware YaP has nothing to do with this. I suggest that a simple idea is not "hardcore" refueling but "sim lite" refueling, where you (and AI) fly the plane close enough to the tanker to get refueled. Simplistic, but functional with respect to overall mission operation and air war simulation, and most important, easy to add to the program code.

leitmotiv
08-08-2006, 08:20 PM
As I understand, real refueling is coming---this is essential to be able to do Thailand-based missions because taking off with the heavy loads they used put a big dent in the Thud's fuel, and they had to immediately refuel from tankers before heading to the north, and refuel right after the strike. As it stands, all you can realistically do is commence the action short of the target, and quit right after the strike. I flew one mission, and, frankly, I don't see any difference in graphics. I flew a standard WOV, and it looked the same, air and ground, and everything is now correctly installed in YAP---even the supposed fix to camouflage the Thud fuel tanks didn't work. The -135 has a -135 instrument panel, pedals, and side consoles, but most of the instruments are missing---most of the panel is blank with squares for, I assume, forthcoming instruments. They also plan to have post-stike, post-recon "photos." At this point, I am "underwhelmed" by this mod.

LEXX_Luthor
08-08-2006, 09:54 PM
Thanks. YaP does not offer much in new grafix, but countless Hristo-ical Correct ground objects (sampans and stuff) that are placed to re-enact Hristo-ical missions that really took place. Stick with it as the idea is Re-Enacting the real strike missions, if that is what you like.

I prefer air war Simulation, and I avoid Hristoical Correct Re-Enactment of anything. But again, the sim is very limited until ThirdWire either makes entirely new campaign engines or creates a comprehensive mission eventlog recorder so we can program our own dynamic campaign engine.

So, the -135 has a partially completed cockpit? That is a good sign. These things take a LONG time to do if they are high quality. For over one year, we watched Boopidoo's Su-15 cockpit go from coloured 3D blobs to the most detailed and functional 3rd Party cockpit in the entire SF+ series, possibly even matching the amazingly stunning ThirdWire F-105 cockpit.

Aerial refueling -- refilling tanks in the air -- depends on ThirdWire adding it to the game code, with no 3rd Party involved.

Poast your findings over at the simhq if you wish. Some of the things you find may be BuGGs that need working out. The simmers there are wanting information.

leitmotiv
08-08-2006, 10:50 PM
I don't think the missions are as rigid as you suggest. The one I tried, a raid on the main N Viet steel plant in '67, had enough random elements to stall any stereotypical play---besides the actual raids were, unfortunately for the real pilots, stereotypical on orders from the top. I hope the enhanced target detail shows up---this is absolutely necessary. Contrary to popular belief, a significant number of USAF Route Pack Six raids were aborted in '67 by the appearance of MiGs. F-105s got to the point to where they accutely felt their inferiority to the MiG-21 and went on the defensive. I enjoy the multiple challenges of attacking targets, dealing with AAA and SAMs, and fighting any MiGs which appear. As for ordinary close support, or interdiction of the Ho Chi Minh Trail, I could care less (even though a number of F-105 pilots met their end doing these supposed "milk runs" over the Trail).

LEXX_Luthor
08-08-2006, 11:08 PM
Ya, that's right. The SF series missions do allow random appearance of units. The missions are the real meat of this payware product, or so I read over at the simhq and CombatAce. Keep plugging away at it...and poast at the simhq as they are looking for this info.

Somebody there did mention the possibility of independent missions being made for the YaP product...stuff you don't have to pay for, provided you already purchased The YaP with its objects. A sim within a sim. A sub sim.

leitmotiv
08-08-2006, 11:26 PM
That YAP thread at SimHQ looks like a pig sticking contest. For the meantime I'm going to play it and see what happens. I am a R Pack Six fiend, I would have bought YAP regardless just to see if it worked. Right now I have no set opinion, and I don't want to have to deal with half a dozen angry people when I am still experimenting.

LEXX_Luthor
08-09-2006, 12:49 AM
hehe. I look the other way, up to the sky. Strategic ops, where entire terrain tiles are to be targeted.

This is example of moving a cockpit inside the larger bomber external models. A-4C cockpit with ground radar inside B-29B (the white lines are contrails). Kinda corny, but its more interesting than a fighter bomber cockpit all by itself.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/e82fc909.jpg


I don't like the -29 FM, it does strange things and its not stable, so I more or less imported the C-130 FM and did some tweaking for a standard base bomber FM. This will be directly useful for ramping into B-50, etc... Its my first real step in working with FM's and I must admit, I don't like it at all.

Working the contrails again. I just happened to move the B-29 engine exhaust position a bit back, and found extra contrails. WHAT THE?? Ya, there is a redundant data block defining engine exhaust when the normal way of doing it is in the engine data block. This sets up eight contrails for each B-29, and that can hurt framerates with very long contrails or large formations, as well as make too dense and brilliant a contrail as eight tga files overlap. Do'h! So I deleted the extra blocks and moved the exhaust emitter to the engine data block where its supposed to be.

leitmotiv
08-09-2006, 01:08 AM
Good heavens! Beyond me, I'm a wordsmith.

OK, I posted on SimHG ("Thud67"). God help me.

http://tinyurl.com/h2cxu

LEXX_Luthor
08-09-2006, 01:40 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Now, Bac to SAC.

leitmotiv
08-09-2006, 01:51 AM
F-106A City

LEXX_Luthor
08-09-2006, 10:28 AM
You got a reply from the YaP Team. Work with them. It may be best to make a seperate install for this addon -- YaP specific tweaked install of WoV. Its common for the more militant radical SF players to have seperate installs for each 3rd Party campaign, maybe its good for this too.


Have you been here? ~> http://www.f-106deltadart.com/index1.htm

leitmotiv
08-09-2006, 11:24 AM
I have separate installs for YAP, "Aces of North Vietnam", and "Korean Air War/Red Falcon". I suppose YAP is now howling for my blood. To arms!

leitmotiv
08-09-2006, 11:54 AM
Well! I'm stunned! Constructive criticism not met with insolence or anger! Good show YAP! I think they are on the level. Obviously any chance I had of winning friends and influencing people among the SimHQ people is shot to blazes now!

woofiedog
08-18-2006, 12:57 PM
A few screen's from WoV/WoE... The Heavy Force's on Patrol. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/B-47.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/WoEb.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/WoEa.jpg

leitmotiv
08-18-2006, 02:44 PM
I love that B-47. Whenever current events have me down I set SF to '65, take off in a 47, and drop a nuke. Highly therapeutic. Seriously, it is one heck of a bomber. While making a high and fast approach on a city my remote tail gun gunner dispatched a trailing fighter before we were nailed. I was suitably impressed. I prefer the AlphaSim B-58 for FS2004 because the cockpit is correct. By the way, the Cloud9 F-104 for FS2004 is incredible. All systems detailed within an inch of their lives---go too fast on take off and you blow your tires and fireball. Pull up too fast and your engine bangs three times and quits. You, literally, have to fly by the book to avoid crashing.

woofiedog
08-19-2006, 01:28 AM
FS2004 look's Very Good, Exspecially the He-219 Nightfighter... but IL-2 and WoV/WoE have been keeping me off the Street's! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I'll have too try out the FS2004 demo one of these day's.

TheGozr
08-19-2006, 02:01 AM
LockOn the ultimate jet sim and feel much better than F4.. Period.

sc1949
08-19-2006, 05:19 AM
Got this the other day, and like it, BUT, I have one gripe. I can't stop rolling, have posted over at SimHQ, but no reply in 2 days, so thought I'd try here. This is some of the setting s I've tried to correct this so far.

____________________________________

Does anyone know how to stop the joystick from rolling so much, have calibrated in XP, it's a
Guillemot (thrustmaster FFB), only about 6 months old.

I have tried the deadzone way up (about 60 seems best so far), and the response way down (about
60 seems best so far), as well as heaps of different settings in between as well as have also had a bit of success changing the rollrate in the F-15A (Default in Quick Missions, or is that Instant Action?). Didn't change pitch or yaw, as they seemed OK, just trying to stop the
rolling, as there is no chance of locking on anything, air or ground with guns, rockets are no problem.

I'm normally an iL2 FB player, but got WOE after reading some good reports on the work going on
with this sim, and usually can do my own calibrations etc if needed, but I'm not having much luck as yet. Hoping someone knows how to fix this, or maybe knows of a utility that would help
fix this.

Thanks for your help in advance


I got This from SimHQ posting, which is why I tried adjusting the F-15a data file, like he
says, you need to experiment, as so far it has varied wildly with some settings.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

Mad Mike
Member
Member # 20645

- posted May 21, 2006 15:4022 May, 2006 06:40 AM Profile for Mad Mike Send New

Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Try changing the aircraft Data ini

like this.

[FlightControl]
StallSpeed=54.41
CruiseSpeed=401.2
ClimbSpeed=260.60
CornerSpeed=133.27
MaxG=6.00
MaxSpeedSL=506.79
MachLimit=1.8
PitchDamper=4.85<-----change here
RollDamper=4.4<-------change here
YawDamper=4.0<--------change here
GunBoresightAngle=0
RocketBoresightAngle=0

You can change these numbers to higher or lower depending what you want. the higher numbers

steadys the aircraft but it also gives you a larger turring radius. I hope this helps you it

helped me.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________


This is where it currently is set, but it's not good enough yet.

PITCH_CONTROL=JOYSTICK03_Y-AXIS
YAW_CONTROL=JOYSTICK02_Y-AXIS
ROLL_CONTROL=JOYSTICK03_X-AXIS
THROTTLE_CONTROL=JOYSTICK01_U-AXIS

________________________________________________

[RangedControl001]
AxisControl=PITCH_CONTROL
MaxValue=1000.000000
MinValue=-1000.000000
DeadZone=28.000000
Saturation=118.000000<-------This has varied from 75 to 100, now 118
ReverseJoystick=TRUE
MouseScale=1.000000
UseMouseRate=FALSE
ReverseMouse=FALSE
LimitValue=TRUE
SelfCenterRate=2.000000
KeyControlRate=1.000000
AllowKeyControl=TRUE
IncreaseControl=PITCH_DOWN
DecreaseControl=PITCH_UP
CenterControl=

[RangedControl002]
AxisControl=YAW_CONTROL
MaxValue=1000.000000
MinValue=-1000.000000
DeadZone=28.000000
Saturation=118.000000<-------This has varied from 75 to 100, now 118
ReverseJoystick=TRUE
MouseScale=1.000000
UseMouseRate=FALSE
ReverseMouse=FALSE
LimitValue=TRUE
SelfCenterRate=2.000000
KeyControlRate=1.000000
AllowKeyControl=TRUE
IncreaseControl=YAW_RIGHT
DecreaseControl=YAW_LEFT
CenterControl=

[RangedControl003]
AxisControl=ROLL_CONTROL
MaxValue=1000.000000
MinValue=-1000.000000
DeadZone=28.000000
Saturation=118.000000<-------This has varied from 75 to 100, now 118
ReverseJoystick=FALSE
MouseScale=1.000000
UseMouseRate=FALSE
ReverseMouse=FALSE
LimitValue=TRUE
SelfCenterRate=2.000000
KeyControlRate=1.000000
AllowKeyControl=TRUE
IncreaseControl=ROLL_RIGHT
DecreaseControl=ROLL_LEFT
CenterControl=

[RangedControl004]
AxisControl=THROTTLE_CONTROL
MaxValue=1000.000000
MinValue=0.000000
DeadZone=0.000000
Saturation=100.000000<-------This has never varied from 100
ReverseJoystick=TRUE
MouseScale=1.000000
UseMouseRate=FALSE
ReverseMouse=FALSE
LimitValue=TRUE
SelfCenterRate=0.000000
KeyControlRate=1.000000
AllowKeyControl=TRUE
IncreaseControl=THROTTLE_UP
DecreaseControl=THROTTLE_DOWN
CenterControl=

leitmotiv
08-19-2006, 08:29 AM
Don't bother with the demo, woofiedog---it is terrible. TrackIR is not supported, neither is force feedback, the provided airplanes have (literally) arcade flight models, and it is full of bugs (finally, I could not take off because my Wings of Power Zero kept starting crunched into a tree no matter which location I chose!). I'm buying it when it is released in October, but I removed the demo with extreme prejudice. The He 219 is the best WWII fighter on the market, bar none. FS9 has 6 DOF and you have to position your head right to use the gunsight and you can look around your back armor. all the WOP airplanes are marvelous. If you like Lancs, Just Flight's maximum solution Lanc set is being released on the 25th. Cheers, Butch Harris

LOCK ON is great if you like the contemporary scene, but I prefer the 1950-80-era jets, TheGozr.