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View Full Version : Bad time to build a new PC?? I think not, I'm building.....



mortoma1958
09-06-2006, 09:43 AM
The naysayers are at it again. Some new CPUs, such as Intel Core 2 duos are out. And you see the inevitable posts where some say "Don't do it!!" because a better yet CPU is on the horizon. So they advise you to wait. But I've been building PCs since the early-mid nineties and if I would have taken such advice, I would have never built even one!!

At every juncture of the road there are better CPUs and such that are announced to be released at some obscure future date. Already seen posts by some who say don't buy a Core2 duo because Intel is planning to realease the new "yada-yada" core or something like that processors soon, or AMD will have the slick new "zippety doo-dad" core out in the first quarter of next year. What the hell ever!! Wait until they come out to build and then they will announce yet a new future generation. It's never the right time to build for some people, let's face it.

Getting sick of it again. I am as usual ignoring the "expert" advice and going to build a new PC, finally after way too many years nursing a AMD XP-2100.

Here's what I'm going to get ( switching back to Intel at least for now ). The price of this barebones system will be around $1950.00/US

CASE: CoolerMaster Stacker 830 Mid-Tower Case W/ Side-panel Window

POWER SUPPLY: Thermaltake ToughPower 600 Watt Power Supply - SLI Ready

CPU: (Sckt775)Intel Core" 2 Duo E6400 CPU @ 2.13GHz 1066FSB 2x1MB L2 Cache ( to be upgraded to X6800 Extreme Edition when price come down ).

COOLING: CoolerMaster Liquid CPU Cooling Fan System Kit

MOTHERBOARD: Asus P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe nForce4 SLI Chipset

MEMORY: (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory, Corsair Value Select

VIDEO CARD: NVIDIA Geforce 7950 GX2 1GB 16X PCI Express Video Card ( Plan to add an SLI twin for this after a while.

HARD DRIVE: SATA150 - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD - 74GB 10,000RPM, 8MB Cache

OPTICAL DRIVE: PIONEER DVR-111 DUAL FORMAT 16X DVDR/RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER

MONITOR: Planning to keep old monitor for a while to save money.

SOUND CARD: Will use onboard sound until I can afford to upgrade to a Creative Labs X-FI Platinum 24-BIT PCI card

SPEAKERS: Will use old speakers until I can afford to upgrade to Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1

ploughman
09-06-2006, 09:50 AM
I've zero experience of electronics (can change own bulbs) but I'm not a complete moron. How hard is it to build your own machine? Is it worth the effort and/or will it leave me much more clued up on how PCs work to be worth the pain? I've often thought about building one, but have always been a little in awe of the insides of my machine.

?

ytareh
09-06-2006, 10:05 AM
Id be interested to see what sort of performance/benchmarks/screenshots that setup provides Mort ,it looks sweet....I suppose people are saying go for the 6600 cpu instead of the 6400 but sure I suppose its a case of if youre going to buy a Maserati or Porsche some people will say you should have got a Ferrari instead of appreciating that your new car is 100 times better than a Ford!!!!
I dont know if youre into Overclocking but the real beauty of these new cpus is their overclockability.You should research this.It may be as simple as changing a single number in your BIOS.(But of course be careful too)
Id have a check on your power supply if I was you.I may have read that those Thermaltakes have very low CURRENT specs and this is very important for the latest cards....Good Luck!

ytareh
09-06-2006, 10:07 AM
Oh yeah why not pick up a secondhand Creative Audigy 2 ZS on Ebay .They are very cheap and almost as good.I got an X-Fi and sold it and went back to the Audigy 2 ZS.An Audigy 2 might be ok to but plain Audigys or "SE" versions should be avoided like the plague.

WOLFMondo
09-06-2006, 10:08 AM
Its not a bad time to buy it but new chipsets for intel systems are coming out all the time and the Nforce4 is good but its old now. The AM2 system will be cheaper but the Core Duo 2's are great.

Personally I wouldn't go with a second 7950GX2. DX10/Vista and DX10 graphics cards will be out next year, you'll have spent allot of money on something thats going to be out of date mid next year (will run DX10 games in DX9 so FSX will look just like FS9 and DX10 games won't be able to look as good or feature rich). Also there is such limited support for quad SLI at the moment is pointless since no games will actually use all the power or memory.

You'll also find all that power wasted unless you have a decent high resolution TFT doing 1600x1200 minimum. A 7900Gt will perform as well as a 7950GX2 at 1280x1024 playing this sim, I kid you not. Why? Because no SLI support and they use the same GPU's.

Personally I'd go for a 1900XTX. Why? Because they powerful, much cheaper than a 7950GX2 and you won't feel so bad when next year you decide to replace it with a DX10 card.

JG52Uther
09-06-2006, 10:16 AM
Ploughman,go for it.Its easy really,and if you have problems,as I did,the good folk here will sort you out.
As for keeping up with the Jones',I could'nt agree more.I am very happy with my amd3700 skt 939 and should be for a good while yet.

shotdownski
09-06-2006, 10:35 AM
Plougman,

If I can do it, anybody can...don't let it intimidate you. If you have the time to do some basic research (available at various websites) PC building (better termed PC "assembly") is pretty straight forward. Find a decent step-by-step guide and just follow the instructions.

The most difficult part for me was choosing the right components. Again, plenty of info out there on the web and many kind and knowledgable folks on this board who will provide assitance if needed.





Originally posted by Ploughman:
I've zero experience of electronics (can change own bulbs) but I'm not a complete moron. How hard is it to build your own machine? Is it worth the effort and/or will it leave me much more clued up on how PCs work to be worth the pain? I've often thought about building one, but have always been a little in awe of the insides of my machine.

?

mortoma1958
09-06-2006, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
I've zero experience of electronics (can change own bulbs) but I'm not a complete moron. How hard is it to build your own machine? Is it worth the effort and/or will it leave me much more clued up on how PCs work to be worth the pain? I've often thought about building one, but have always been a little in awe of the insides of my machine.

? It's very easy!! The actual physical builing of it is easy if you can turn a screw driver and use some simple static electricity precautions!! The install of the thermal paste on top of the processor and mounting the cooling fan or liquid cooling is something you have to be a tad careful with, but not that hard. You may have to set a few jumpers or dipswitches on the motherboard. But it's actually harder to set up the soft part of it, like the first time you go into the bios before you try and intall the OS. But even that is easy peasy!! I would be glad to help you along, just ask if you want to do it.

mortoma1958
09-06-2006, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by ytareh:
Id be interested to see what sort of performance/benchmarks/screenshots that setup provides Mort ,it looks sweet....I suppose people are saying go for the 6600 cpu instead of the 6400 but sure I suppose its a case of if youre going to buy a Maserati or Porsche some people will say you should have got a Ferrari instead of appreciating that your new car is 100 times better than a Ford!!!!
I dont know if youre into Overclocking but the real beauty of these new cpus is their overclockability.You should research this.It may be as simple as changing a single number in your BIOS.(But of course be careful too)
Id have a check on your power supply if I was you.I may have read that those Thermaltakes have very low CURRENT specs and this is very important for the latest cards....Good Luck! I'm going with the E6400 to keep the cost down, then plan to change it for a X6800 Extreme Edition when the prices come down.
As far as perfomance, this PC I will build is faster than a PC build on the AM2 FX-64 processor from AMD. And that's with the E6400!!!

mortoma1958
09-06-2006, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by ytareh:
Id be interested to see what sort of performance/benchmarks/screenshots that setup provides Mort ,it looks sweet....I suppose people are saying go for the 6600 cpu instead of the 6400 but sure I suppose its a case of if youre going to buy a Maserati or Porsche some people will say you should have got a Ferrari instead of appreciating that your new car is 100 times better than a Ford!!!!
I dont know if youre into Overclocking but the real beauty of these new cpus is their overclockability.You should research this.It may be as simple as changing a single number in your BIOS.(But of course be careful too)
Id have a check on your power supply if I was you.I may have read that those Thermaltakes have very low CURRENT specs and this is very important for the latest cards....Good Luck! Thanks, will look into the power supply, may change it for Antec, easy enough to do and about the same cost.

crazyivan1970
09-06-2006, 10:54 AM
For motherboard i`d pick Asus P5WD2-E Premium Crossifre
PSU i`d go for with OCZ GameXStream 700W
memory - OCZ OCZ2P8002GK
case Thermaltake Kandalf VA9000 series big case, much cooler and easier to work with. If you considering 2 video cards, full tower is the way to go, trust me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


I look at things differently hehe. I consider a case and PSU is the base for current or future builds. Never go cheap on those http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Usually case/PSU combo lasted for me thru 3 upgrades.
Also i find Corssifre technology more advanced then SLI, Needless to say that X1900XTX which slightly falls behind at some benchmarks comparing to GF 7950 GX2... price should be a breaking factor here... we are talking $360+ card vs $600 card. You do the math. Would you pay double in price for something that performs slightly better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif On this bright note, if i were you... i`d rather go with ATI, and use price difference towards Core 2 Duo E6700 which overclocks at will http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif That system with addition of Master video card later on to get crossfire going will probably get you in Storm of War.

Just thinking out loud hehe

ploughman
09-06-2006, 11:53 AM
Thanks for the responses to my queery guys.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I'll maybe start thinking seriously about it now. Roughly, what would you save on an equivalent built machine?

crazyivan1970
09-06-2006, 12:01 PM
solid gaming rig built from scratch is $2k give or take. Average 1200-1500 or so.

JG52Uther
09-06-2006, 12:04 PM
Seriously Ploughman ? I reckon if you spent a thousand pounds that would give you something that would cost 1500-2000 pre built. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Plus its easy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ploughman
09-06-2006, 12:08 PM
Up to 50% savings?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I'm in.

R_Target
09-06-2006, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
I'll maybe start thinking seriously about it now. Roughly, what would you save on an equivalent built machine?

Enough to get a new HOTAS or TIR4 if you don't already have it, and some beer money left over.

FatBoyHK
09-06-2006, 12:29 PM
CrazyIvan you say Crossfire is more advance than SLI? This contradict with my understanding, but I am no expert.... may be you can enlight me? S!

FatBoyHK
09-06-2006, 12:44 PM
By the way it is never a bad time to upgrade... I just did a hugh upogarde last months, see it here (http://www.fighterjocks.net/afjbb2/viewtopic.php?t=119).

To summarize the spec:

- New Components:
AMD FX-60 @ 3GHz
Seagate 320G SATA/300 HDD
Plextor PX-760SA DVDRW (SATA interface)
Thermaltake Liquid Cooling Components
Silverstone Zeus 750W PSU
ASUS Vento 7700 Classis

- Existing Components:
ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe (nForce4-SLIx16)
XFX GF7800GTX XXX Edition
Corsair XMS-3500LLPro 1GB Module x 2 @ 228MHz 2-3-2-6
Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS

and I will upgarde to Dual GF8800GTX once it is available in a reasonable price.

Some people may say I was crazy to go for FX60 now.... yes if you focus on the CPU only, but I did it because I have already invested on a good motherboard and a pair of good ram back in Janurary this year, and they still kickass now, than why throw them away, especially I am not a billioniare? Not to mention the cost for a good i965 MB and a good pair of DDR2 RAM.....

So instead I decided to pair with them with the best CPU they can handle... FX60 is the last and the fastest CPU for socket939.

All in all, if you know what you are doing, there won't be a wrong upgrade.... I may go for Dual 7900GTX if the price-performance is attractive, because I know that DX10 game will be very rare until 2 years later, which is actually long enough to accomodate 2 generations of graphic cards http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

oh btw if you have the budget to go for Stacker 830, and you decide to mess with liquid cooling, why don't you take a look at Thermaltake's new classis which come with integrated liquid cooling system? But classis is very personal, like me I choose ASUS Vento which is technically not a good chassis, but I love its look http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif As I say there is no wromg upgrade if you know what you are doing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

nickdanger3
09-06-2006, 12:48 PM
Ploughman,

I built my current machine, my first, more than 4 years ago and have had zero problems. It was a great experience - you should try it sometimes - it will make the machine much less of a black box.

I wouldn't get too excited about cost savings:if you were to buid an exact replica of an AlienWare machine you would undoubtedly spend more to make it yourself. Big companies can get the stuff cheaper than you.

The way to save is to buy just slightly behind the curve and to only buy what you need.

Mortomas planned rig is a case in point: He's planning on getting a 74GB harddrive which is tiny by today's standards, but if that's all he needs then he can spend more on the videocard.

PS. And yes. SoW will definitely light a fire under me to make my second machine....can't wait!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Xiolablu3
09-06-2006, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
I've zero experience of electronics (can change own bulbs) but I'm not a complete moron. How hard is it to build your own machine? Is it worth the effort and/or will it leave me much more clued up on how PCs work to be worth the pain? I've often thought about building one, but have always been a little in awe of the insides of my machine.

?

Start by doing simple htings like adding RAM and a new Graphics card.

This way you learn a bit at a time and its not overwhemling. Eventually you will know what each part is. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mortoma1958
09-06-2006, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
For motherboard i`d pick Asus P5WD2-E Premium Crossifre
PSU i`d go for with OCZ GameXStream 700W
memory - OCZ OCZ2P8002GK
case Thermaltake Kandalf VA9000 series big case, much cooler and easier to work with. If you considering 2 video cards, full tower is the way to go, trust me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


I look at things differently hehe. I consider a case and PSU is the base for current or future builds. Never go cheap on those http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Usually case/PSU combo lasted for me thru 3 upgrades.
Also i find Corssifre technology more advanced then SLI, Needless to say that X1900XTX which slightly falls behind at some benchmarks comparing to GF 7950 GX2... price should be a breaking factor here... we are talking $360+ card vs $600 card. You do the math. Would you pay double in price for something that performs slightly better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif On this bright note, if i were you... i`d rather go with ATI, and use price difference towards Core 2 Duo E6700 which overclocks at will http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif That system with addition of Master video card later on to get crossfire going will probably get you in Storm of War.

Just thinking out loud hehe Ok, I'll look into that advice too. Is that mobo you mentioned an SLI mobo???

crazyivan1970
09-06-2006, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
CrazyIvan you say Crossfire is more advance than SLI? This contradict with my understanding, but I am no expert.... may be you can enlight me? S!

This article shows the difference between the two. http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=14474

I cant explain it better then this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

crazyivan1970
09-06-2006, 01:05 PM
It`s a crossfire mortoma

mortoma1958
09-06-2006, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
For motherboard i`d pick Asus P5WD2-E Premium Crossifre
PSU i`d go for with OCZ GameXStream 700W
memory - OCZ OCZ2P8002GK
case Thermaltake Kandalf VA9000 series big case, much cooler and easier to work with. If you considering 2 video cards, full tower is the way to go, trust me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


I look at things differently hehe. I consider a case and PSU is the base for current or future builds. Never go cheap on those http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Usually case/PSU combo lasted for me thru 3 upgrades.
Also i find Corssifre technology more advanced then SLI, Needless to say that X1900XTX which slightly falls behind at some benchmarks comparing to GF 7950 GX2... price should be a breaking factor here... we are talking $360+ card vs $600 card. You do the math. Would you pay double in price for something that performs slightly better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif On this bright note, if i were you... i`d rather go with ATI, and use price difference towards Core 2 Duo E6700 which overclocks at will http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif That system with addition of Master video card later on to get crossfire going will probably get you in Storm of War.

Just thinking out loud hehe That mobo is not able to run Core 2 Duo, only P-4 or Celeron. But thanks for suggestion. You need special new mobos for core 2 duo since they have special voltage requirements.

mortoma1958
09-06-2006, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
It`s a crossfire mortoma What is crossfire?? You must bear in mind that I have not kept up perfectly with the latest stuff. Never done heerd of that there fancy crossfire critter.

crazyivan1970
09-06-2006, 01:24 PM
Edit...sorry i have typing issues lol

It`s P5W DH Deluxe i wanted to suggest hehe. But one i listed before supports it too

This one: http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=1&model=1198&l1=3&l2=11&l3=248 supposedly is hot stuff

crazyivan1970
09-06-2006, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by mortoma1958:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
It`s a crossfire mortoma What is crossfire?? You must bear in mind that I have not kept up perfectly with the latest stuff. Never done heerd of that there fancy crossfire critter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Follow the link i posted above

mortoma1958
09-06-2006, 01:47 PM
Still see no evidence that the mobo you recommend
is able to support Core 2 Duo Ivan. I have checked out the info at www.asus.com (http://www.asus.com)

crazyivan1970
09-06-2006, 01:58 PM
Says it right there mate: P5W DH Deluxe

ASUS Digital Home Series
- LGA775 socket for Intel Core2 Duo, Core2

slappedsilly
09-06-2006, 08:37 PM
It seems to me that its always a bad time to build a new rig. To build anything worth having, it will cost you plenty and it will be out dated in 6 months. But if you like gaming, you gotta bite the bullet now and then.

R_Target
09-06-2006, 08:50 PM
SLI vs Crossfire (http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=cfvssli&page=1)

Brief comparison (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTA4OSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==)

mortoma1958
09-06-2006, 09:21 PM
Thanks R_Target, despite Ivan's enthuiasm for the crossfire, I can now see that Quad SLI is a better choice. I'm sticking with SLI!!!

R_Target
09-06-2006, 09:25 PM
I think they're very close. If you're into other games besides IL2, one might offer more advantages than the other. My brother has an X900XT Crossfire rig, and he's real pleased with it.

Aviar
09-06-2006, 10:35 PM
Good for you, mortoma. I just got my new rig yesterday and it's very similar to the one you mentioned in your first post...except mine has the E6700 CPU and a 9700GTX.

I haven't installed anything yet, so keep your fingers crossed...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aviar

crazyivan1970
09-06-2006, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by mortoma1958:
Thanks R_Target, despite Ivan's enthuiasm for the crossfire, I can now see that Quad SLI is a better choice. I'm sticking with SLI!!!

You dont need to share my enthusiasm mate. I was just trying to help. Besides, in this article they used cheapest and crappies board ever produced for crossfire http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Needless to say that half of the tests are not representing reality. You might want to ask Hunter82 about it... he had both SLI and Crossfire setups and Crossfire was far ahead in COD2, DOOM3 and IL2. But this is your system mate, good luck with it.

Cheers!

mortoma1958
09-07-2006, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by nickdanger3:
Ploughman,

I built my current machine, my first, more than 4 years ago and have had zero problems. It was a great experience - you should try it sometimes - it will make the machine much less of a black box.

I wouldn't get too excited about cost savings:if you were to buid an exact replica of an AlienWare machine you would undoubtedly spend more to make it yourself. Big companies can get the stuff cheaper than you.

The way to save is to buy just slightly behind the curve and to only buy what you need.

Mortomas planned rig is a case in point: He's planning on getting a 74GB harddrive which is tiny by today's standards, but if that's all he needs then he can spend more on the videocard.

PS. And yes. SoW will definitely light a fire under me to make my second machine....can't wait!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The reason my hard drive is only 74Gb is because it's a high speed 10,000RPM drive, they don't make those very big yet. Plus it's got a huge buffer too. For now it's a trade off, you get better performance but a smaller drive. And basically I would never need one much bigger than that anyway since I only play a few games. Plus a 2 or 3 gigs of MP3 songs.