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View Full Version : Flight physics in 4.01



Sidmo
06-26-2005, 08:32 PM
Has anyone else noticed the change in the flight physics in 4.01? I've noticed the planes are more sluggish, and less manueverable than they were in 3.04

VW-IceFire
06-26-2005, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Sidmo:
Has anyone else noticed the change in the flight physics in 4.01? I've noticed the planes are more sluggish, and less manueverable than they were in 3.04
Are you joking, there are tons of posts about this all over the forums http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sidmo
06-26-2005, 11:38 PM
The new physics suck! :P

PapaG39
06-27-2005, 01:08 AM
One thing that I have been fighting in QMB is: the da*ned AI just go into a 360 degree turn & they can go around the outside of the turn faster then you can cut them off by cutting directly across the circle. U can't catch them even if your put yourself in a faster aircraft...AI still clims faster & can top out of a 1000 meter straight up climb & be going faster then me while I stayed high & kept my speed up...

also, it is almost impolssible to fly a fun dogfight because the AI always flys right into my aircraft..no matter how much I try to get out of the way, the dam*ned AI fly right into me.

the AI could be a hot air balloon & still go faster them anything that I could fly...

In some ways the new FM may be better, but the AI has become much worse.

most of the aircraft start out in about 1 mph above a stall & while I am trying to gain a bit of airspeed my wingman are doing super powered straight up wingovers & other assorted aerobatics around my aircraft...really lame I think...

Taurus_Slo
06-27-2005, 02:47 AM
Well, I personally think that now the physics in just fine. Before all plane had a fast roll rate, just like aerobatic plane in this days.

So Oleg did the right thing to make plane more sluggish and unresponsive.

Just my thinking ...

BanaBob
06-27-2005, 03:37 AM
Wow! The flight physics have changed? Who would of thought? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Bearcat99
06-27-2005, 05:57 AM
Did you trim your plane.....?

VW-IceFire
06-27-2005, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Sidmo:
The new physics suck! :P
Gravity sucks...physics just are http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Seriously, the new FM is much closer (according to pilots that I've heard from) to reality than previously. It certainly feels more real and if favours good virtual piloting skills moreso than before.

Get used to it. Ask if you're having trouble with something.

snafu73
06-27-2005, 09:40 AM
Il-2 Players seem to be split into two groups, the 'hardcore' simmers who I can imagine zipping up their B3's and putting their goggles on in front of their PC's at home then there is the general PC gamer.

I think it's quite clear the latest patch had the former in mind, but I think I'm somewhere in the middle.

I'm personally hoping BOB reaches some kind of compromise - not for selfish reasons but for the thought of some PC magazine game reviewer setting up BOB then finding the flight model is like ice skating on a razor blade, then writing up a piece slaughtering the game then the game bombing.

If my memory serves me right Johnnie Johnson shot down 38 aircraft in something like 400-odd sorties, do people really want it that realistic?

Chuck_Older
06-27-2005, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Sidmo:
The new physics suck! :P

Gotta love the rational, cultured, scientific tone http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Chuck_Older
06-27-2005, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by snafu73:
Il-2 Players seem to be split into two groups, the 'hardcore' simmers who I can imagine zipping up their B3's and putting their goggles on in front of their PC's at home then there is the general PC gamer.

I think it's quite clear the latest patch had the former in mind, but I think I'm somewhere in the middle.

I'm personally hoping BOB reaches some kind of compromise - not for selfish reasons but for the thought of some PC magazine game reviewer setting up BOB then finding the flight model is like ice skating on a razor blade, then writing up a piece slaughtering the game then the game bombing.

If my memory serves me right Johnnie Johnson shot down 38 aircraft in something like 400-odd sorties, do people really want it that realistic?

If there are two groups, simmer and gamers...what do gamers expect when they play in the simmer's world?

snafu73
06-27-2005, 10:08 AM
I think they expect a 'game'

By the way chuck_older, I kept thinking the guy under your name was the guy from 3rd rock from the sun - I've only just seen the clashaholic bit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

WWSensei
06-27-2005, 11:15 AM
Have none of the gamers discovered the options menu?

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-27-2005, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sidmo:
The new physics suck! :P

Gotta love the rational, cultured, scientific tone http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

TAGERT.
06-27-2005, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sidmo:
The new physics suck! :P

Gotta love the rational, cultured, scientific tone http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL

VW-IceFire
06-27-2005, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by snafu73:
Il-2 Players seem to be split into two groups, the 'hardcore' simmers who I can imagine zipping up their B3's and putting their goggles on in front of their PC's at home then there is the general PC gamer.

I think it's quite clear the latest patch had the former in mind, but I think I'm somewhere in the middle.

I'm personally hoping BOB reaches some kind of compromise - not for selfish reasons but for the thought of some PC magazine game reviewer setting up BOB then finding the flight model is like ice skating on a razor blade, then writing up a piece slaughtering the game then the game bombing.

If my memory serves me right Johnnie Johnson shot down 38 aircraft in something like 400-odd sorties, do people really want it that realistic?
I hear you. I'm still both.

I still play new games like Battlefield 2 and classics like C&C Generals, Red Alert, Star Craft, R6: Raven Shield, and the like. So I'm a gamer. But I'm also a simulation pilot...I was when I startd playing this game. I got used to it despite the learning curve and I expected to put extra effort into it including background reading and research. Which is fine because I love this subject to pieces anyways.

However, as pointed out on this thread already, gamers need to have a look at the realism options. They can change the settings so there is no wind, no torque, and no stalls if they really want it that way. The new patch doesn't change these options but it does make them more poingant than before.

So what I really have to ask is if some of the crowd want to play the game at the hardest level because it "makes them feel like the man" but on the other hand the game can't become harder because they don't want to be setting the options back. I see some contradictory feelings around.

The game is scalable in its difficult...it always was. I started playing the IL-2 demo with most options including unlimited ammo on and invulernability on. I needed to go from essentially zero to virtual pilot and I had to learn. So while I totally understand the new pilots perspective, I'm now a seasoned veteran of the series (three years entitles me to that I think http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and I like the added flight challenge.

So the options are already there. People not using them is not anyone elses problem.

Equilizer
06-27-2005, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by snafu73:
I'm personally hoping BOB reaches some kind of compromise

They already have that in the Il2 series -> difficulty options.

snafu73
06-27-2005, 02:05 PM
Well, I think even to blind pew, that goes without saying and needing to be pointed out!

Bearcat99
06-27-2005, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by snafu73:
I'm personally hoping BOB reaches some kind of compromise - not for selfish reasons but for the thought of some PC magazine game reviewer setting up BOB then finding the flight model is like ice skating on a razor blade, then writing up a piece slaughtering the game then the game bombing.


I understand your point.. but consider that BoB will... if Oleg & 1C stay true to form, be even more finetuneable as far as scalability goes than FB 4.0. For those who think that this FM is so bad this says it all:


Originally posted by WWSensei:
Have none of the gamers discovered the options menu?

Which is why I and the other mods get so frustrated with so many of the negative posts popping up. All the things that these guys complain about can be addressed... they just dont want to do it. Yet they keep coming here with that stuff and wonder why thier threads get locked after 2 or 3 pages of the same old cr@p thats in 6 other threads scattered throuout the forums....

han freak solo
06-27-2005, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by WWSensei:
Have none of the gamers discovered the options menu?

Exactly. The difficulty settings menu has EASY, NORMAL, and REALISTIC selections. Or, it can be custom tuned with the 24 available switches.

It's all in the hands of the player! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I'm still looking for the ABNORMAL selection, though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

irR4tiOn4L
06-27-2005, 11:03 PM
Well then again you can understand where they are coming from - the options menu really isnt customisable enough. Its either full on torque or no torque.

All people play this game for a challenge, many play online. So why cant some of these players get a challenge on their own level, instead of being targets for the rest? Arguing that they want to feel like 'the man' and we dont is just silly too.

I had the privilege of starting in the best games (in their time) with full functionality and lighter physics and gradually worked my way up. So i can see why someone new who goes to IL-2 because its pretty much only simming option would appreciate the ability to be 'let off' a little and still enjoy multiplay, torque, great flight model and so on.

Compromising and customising dont mean Realistic ON/OFF - I think GTR was very good in this regard - i hope BOB is very scalable so that those who want just some fun can do that and those who want the best PC can bring can do so too, with all of them being able to enjoy all the features of the sim.

WWSensei
06-28-2005, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by irR4tiOn4L:
Well then again you can understand where they are coming from - the options menu really isnt customisable enough. Its either full on torque or no torque.

Considering the addition of torque is probably the biggest noticeable change in the FM I see this as wanting to have it both ways.


All people play this game for a challenge, many play online. So why cant some of these players get a challenge on their own level, instead of being targets for the rest? Arguing that they want to feel like 'the man' and we dont is just silly too.

Again, any player can run a server to their liking with the options they desire. I understand what you are trying to say, but the reality is nothing prevents any player from having the type of game they want. Another reality is that in any game those who dabble in it will always be fodder for those that play it constantly. This game was intended to simulate aircraft not simulate pilot skills.


I had the privilege of starting in the best games (in their time) with full functionality and lighter physics and gradually worked my way up. So i can see why someone new who goes to IL-2 because its pretty much only simming option would appreciate the ability to be 'let off' a little and still enjoy multiplay, torque, great flight model and so on.

Sorry, but that reads like "I want to fly with realistic aircraft modelling, but don't make me look like a noob in front of the hard core."


Compromising and customising dont mean Realistic ON/OFF

Strawman argument. It isn't realism on/off. There are a ton of variety of options and combinations. You could have torque on and no stalls, cockpit on/off, land/takeoff, complex engine management or not. There are literrally hundreds of variations. It's not an Arcade/Full Hard switch. There are 24 of them.


- I think GTR was very good in this regard - i hope BOB is very scalable so that those who want just some fun can do that and those who want the best PC can bring can do so too, with all of them being able to enjoy all the features of the sim.

But what if those features require more than 30 mins a week of playing to master? Again, this sounds like you are saying I want all of the features of the sim, but none of the bother to actually learn them. You are asking for a pilot modelling feature and that isn't going to exist in a sim anytime soon. The ability to tailor the game to anyone's liking is already there. It's not everyone else's fault if a newcomer chooses to start on the hardest difficulty setting and find it...well....hard.

Bearcat99
06-28-2005, 05:40 AM
I am curious... and I ask because I dont know, I mainly got into CFS1, briefly 2, hardly 3, a little Warbirds, FA3 amd Aces High... this is the longest sim I have flown and the most in depth.. if you consider the settings in the conf file and the stick sliders as well is there a more scalable sim out?

VW-IceFire
06-28-2005, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by irR4tiOn4L:
Well then again you can understand where they are coming from - the options menu really isnt customisable enough. Its either full on torque or no torque.

All people play this game for a challenge, many play online. So why cant some of these players get a challenge on their own level, instead of being targets for the rest? Arguing that they want to feel like 'the man' and we dont is just silly too.

I had the privilege of starting in the best games (in their time) with full functionality and lighter physics and gradually worked my way up. So i can see why someone new who goes to IL-2 because its pretty much only simming option would appreciate the ability to be 'let off' a little and still enjoy multiplay, torque, great flight model and so on.

Compromising and customising dont mean Realistic ON/OFF - I think GTR was very good in this regard - i hope BOB is very scalable so that those who want just some fun can do that and those who want the best PC can bring can do so too, with all of them being able to enjoy all the features of the sim.
How much more customizable do you want? Torque half way? I guess that could be done...but most people don't seem to want to be even bothered with it.

Players online and offline can get their own level of challenge. I fly on servers that make me the most comfortable and the most happy with the settings I prefer the most (and I'm not always a full switch pilot either). You want to fly with reduced settings in less competitive servers....they are out there. I can name a few if you really want to know.

There's a whole tone of settings that you can do for this game. I prefer to see most of them on in the games I'm flying in...but not all do and they can run their servers accordingly. Infact server admins should be sure to try and cater to different crowds of pilots and they do and can do better.

But there definately is this pervasive attitude where people are new to the game but throw themselves at the absolute hardest settings for some unknown reason and then complain when its too hard for them. Often times complaining in outrage that real pilots couldn't deal with this (and yet real pilots had even more to worry about than we do).

I agree that products such as this have to be accessible...but that doesn't mean compromising what you set out to do. The options are there for the people who choose to use them.

raisen
06-30-2005, 08:42 PM
quote> I think GTR was very good in this regard - i hope BOB is very scalable so that those who want just some fun can do that and those who want the best PC can bring can do so too, with all of them being able to enjoy all the features of the sim. <end quote

When I started flight simming the folks teaching me had me max out all of the realism options, straight out of the box (there wasn't a box actually it was Warbirds http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) . I took the same approach with stuff like Grand Prix Legends, Falcon 4.0 (learning the avionics thoroughly took an age) and took it again when a friend picked me up a copy of IL2 when it came out.

I think some people are looking for quick and easy gratification, and maxed out realism in any remotely modern sim is going to be extremely frustrating in that context. Never fear though, the publishers will no longer touch hardcore sims of any description, witness the dearth of driving games and hardcore flight sims..... except maybe this one.

I'm of the opinion that if sims are going to survive commercially, they are going to have to accomodate a wider variety of players, but maybe separate the hardcore from the arcade flavour pilots at the server end (ie the server settings specify whether you run full real when online), much as we see now infact. Offline, who cares.... it will be up to the individual.

If those running simplified realism were able to "gate crash", full real sessions, I'd probably not bother going online..... It'd be like being the only player on a counter strike server full of pimply youths that doesn't have an aimbot (no offense meant to counter strikers everywhere).

Raisen

raisen
06-30-2005, 08:48 PM
But what if those features require more than 30 mins a week of playing to master? Again, this sounds like you are saying I want all of the features of the sim, but none of the bother to actually learn them.

Isn't that just modern humans all round http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Raisen

B0lter
06-30-2005, 09:24 PM
I don't think this game, or any of its incarnations are all that hard. Compared with games like LOMAC and Falcon4 where you have to learn extensive avionics suits just to be viable offline, let alone online.

Geez, forget LOMAC and Falcon4, go ahead and try Jane's FA-18 with its three working MFDs, multimode air/ground radar, a mind bogling weapons suit, and an LSO that loves to wave you off, and you'll be begging Oleg to take you back.

Realy folks, this game is not that hard to play. If al you have to worry about is a torque induced roll, a high speed stall or a bit of compression, then you have no worries.

Like it's been said above, you can scale the difficulty back in offline play and be a gamer all you want. Jump online, though, and you'll find a horde of virtual pilots aching to eat your lunch.

NonWonderDog
06-30-2005, 11:12 PM
I tried the no torque option just to see if it still existed when all the "it's too hard" whining started, and it works fine. There's only one problem; those planes without cockpit-adjustable trim are still permanently trimmed for cruise speed and power...

This means that the 109 is actually *more* of a handful at cruise speed when you turn the torque off. Instead of having to fight torque and p-effect, you have to fight rudder and aileron trim.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

sc1949
07-01-2005, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by WWSensei:
Have none of the gamers discovered the options menu?

I've gotta agree with you there mate, if they want arcade it's already ingame.

BrotherVoodoo
07-01-2005, 12:28 PM
It is all about the trim. I love the new FM. The more realistic they can make it the better in my opinion.

tascaso
07-01-2005, 02:45 PM
This controversy has been around a long time and still rages even in our online squad! No can seem to agree on difficulty setttings and we have lost squad mates due that fact.

I like full real, but I have been flying this sim since its first release. I used to fly with cockpit off and still got lost! That was years ago. The reason this sim has the legs its got is because of its difficulty in mastering. Aviation is not easy, air combat is not easy and that is the reason I keep coming back...you learn something new after every session. So yeah you can scale it back and flip the switches to suit your taste but to get to nut of the matter its when you tackle the Full Real Deal that you get that WOW feeling going on!

Get into a well organzised squad that uses Team Speak and hit the online wars for some real pucker factor fun.

I hope BOB pushes the envelope of realism just as this sim has done. I do not expect anything less I want a challenge not another AirQuake!

123_Tony_123VEF

han freak solo
07-03-2005, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by tascaso:
The reason this sim has the legs its got is because of its difficulty in mastering.

Totally agree!! 4.01 presented me with a new challenge, too. I couldn't put this game down until I got familiar with 4.01.

Now, I can go outside again! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif