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View Full Version : Limitation of the planeset is neccessary... that and some other observations



crazyivan1970
12-19-2003, 10:54 AM
I just tought that i should share my observations with hosts and users http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif... so

Anyways, after intencive testings for the past two weeks with different maps, plane sets, ground objects and all other stuff.. i came to conclusion that there are quiet a few breaking points that make MP enjoyable.

1) Smoothness of the game play.
I think it`s the most important factor of all and unfortunately many hosts simply overestimating their abilities, meaning hardware and connection along with poor map choice and design of it. Don`t take any offence please, just making an observation. There are few things should be taken under consideration...

a) Many use default Maxlag..etc settings and it ruins game completely IMO. My approach is simple, if you don`t meet some of requirements, sorry..you wont be ruining my game.
b) Map choice. First of all landscape and size of the map. There are some maps that are totally failing to allow smooth stutterless play for people. I can list them later if you want, just don`t remember exact names. When you host the game, you have people over from all over the world, it just like having guests for dinner...gotta make sure that menu is acceptable not only for host http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Some of the landscape on the maps will bring a solid system on its knees, Say Pacific? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif but if it doesn`t affect your monster rig, it will affect other...and as a result... lag/stutter and such. Size of the COMPLETE map is very important too. Test it out, make sure that with FB loaded it`s not exceeding say 350 megs? That way you can save folks with 512 of RAM (Most common crowd) from alot of trouble.

c) All flyable planes in your plane set MUST have corresponding static Aircraft, otherwise you are up for some serious spawn stutter. It`s tested, it`s proven, it works that way. Don`t be lazy, preload static planes.

d) Your hardware/connection = amount of users.
Here`s my Honest opinion... if you host and play on the same rig, amount of users even for top of the line machines should not exceed 16 with HOST included. And that only if you have a cable with at least 500kb upload. If you host and play on different machines - dedicated server, it`s a different story.

e) Load times... now this is a tricky subject hehe. For those who hosts DF with ground object it`s an issue, but it gets bigger when static planes have to be preloaded. Time to compromise, either less objects...or less planes. I prefer less planes, i think 10 plane types per side, or something in that nature, year limitation helps too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

f) Amount and type of AAA along with positioning.

g) Amount of ground targets and postioning of ground targets in reference to main enagement area. Then farer then better http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

2) Scenario.
I prefer DF based maps with ground objects. I figured alot of people do too, everyone finds something to do hehe. Plane sets restricted by year are the most fun ones, at least for me. It is hard to simulate Historical battles and such, but historical plane sets are way to go IMO. Or limited plane sets, having all planes will cause loading problems (time) , see above http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

3)Settings. The most enjoyable time i have and (that`s the way i host too) in the near FR servers with cockpit on, no enemy icons and limited frndly icons. Externals off, of course. True challenge and pure joy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Just a few observations. It doesn`t mean i`m 100% correct, feel free to disagree with me
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

crazyivan1970
12-19-2003, 10:54 AM
I just tought that i should share my observations with hosts and users http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif... so

Anyways, after intencive testings for the past two weeks with different maps, plane sets, ground objects and all other stuff.. i came to conclusion that there are quiet a few breaking points that make MP enjoyable.

1) Smoothness of the game play.
I think it`s the most important factor of all and unfortunately many hosts simply overestimating their abilities, meaning hardware and connection along with poor map choice and design of it. Don`t take any offence please, just making an observation. There are few things should be taken under consideration...

a) Many use default Maxlag..etc settings and it ruins game completely IMO. My approach is simple, if you don`t meet some of requirements, sorry..you wont be ruining my game.
b) Map choice. First of all landscape and size of the map. There are some maps that are totally failing to allow smooth stutterless play for people. I can list them later if you want, just don`t remember exact names. When you host the game, you have people over from all over the world, it just like having guests for dinner...gotta make sure that menu is acceptable not only for host http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Some of the landscape on the maps will bring a solid system on its knees, Say Pacific? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif but if it doesn`t affect your monster rig, it will affect other...and as a result... lag/stutter and such. Size of the COMPLETE map is very important too. Test it out, make sure that with FB loaded it`s not exceeding say 350 megs? That way you can save folks with 512 of RAM (Most common crowd) from alot of trouble.

c) All flyable planes in your plane set MUST have corresponding static Aircraft, otherwise you are up for some serious spawn stutter. It`s tested, it`s proven, it works that way. Don`t be lazy, preload static planes.

d) Your hardware/connection = amount of users.
Here`s my Honest opinion... if you host and play on the same rig, amount of users even for top of the line machines should not exceed 16 with HOST included. And that only if you have a cable with at least 500kb upload. If you host and play on different machines - dedicated server, it`s a different story.

e) Load times... now this is a tricky subject hehe. For those who hosts DF with ground object it`s an issue, but it gets bigger when static planes have to be preloaded. Time to compromise, either less objects...or less planes. I prefer less planes, i think 10 plane types per side, or something in that nature, year limitation helps too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

f) Amount and type of AAA along with positioning.

g) Amount of ground targets and postioning of ground targets in reference to main enagement area. Then farer then better http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

2) Scenario.
I prefer DF based maps with ground objects. I figured alot of people do too, everyone finds something to do hehe. Plane sets restricted by year are the most fun ones, at least for me. It is hard to simulate Historical battles and such, but historical plane sets are way to go IMO. Or limited plane sets, having all planes will cause loading problems (time) , see above http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

3)Settings. The most enjoyable time i have and (that`s the way i host too) in the near FR servers with cockpit on, no enemy icons and limited frndly icons. Externals off, of course. True challenge and pure joy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Just a few observations. It doesn`t mean i`m 100% correct, feel free to disagree with me
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

SKULLS_LZ
12-19-2003, 01:15 PM
Geat post! The ground targets on VFC*host are a welcome addition. The other day I took off in my Hurri IIc, no bandits around so I flew over to the panzer column and tried out the Hispanos on the SdKFz 251's and got a very pleasant surprise. A half second burst took out two of 'em http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Who needs a Sturmovik with 20mm cannons like that? LOL

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ask me about my "Free Wing Removal" program. Offer valid while my ammo supplies last.

tttiger
12-19-2003, 01:32 PM
Very thoughtful post, Ivan, and from my experience quite correct.

I only rarely fly DFs but I do fly and often host Coops. The host has to keep in mind the other players may not have quite the horsepower in their computers that he or she does.

Your point about remembering the responsibility of hosts towards guests is extremely appropriate.

Old Army acronym should apply: KISS. Keep It Simple, Stupid. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aloha, S! and Happy Holidays,

ttt

crazyivan1970
12-19-2003, 03:40 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Happy holidays to you too mate

V!
Regards,

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

VW-IceFire
12-19-2003, 03:45 PM
Excellent post.

Biggest thing for me is when someone lines up tens or hundreds of stationary aircraft in a dogfight server which then coincides with laggy gameplay on all but the most powerful rigs and generally laggier gameplay (the guys seem to bounce around more in these situations).

I was even told off for suggesting that they tone down the parked aircraft. I don't sacrifice visual quality but I generally have FPS in the 60 range...and I was still being brought down. So who knows what they were playing on.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig.jpg

RayBanJockey
12-19-2003, 04:08 PM
I agree that limiting the planeset is good. Axis vs allies promotes strategy/tactics that are all important when you are fighting a plane that is different than your own.

I disagree with the giving different planes different icons. All planes should have the same icons otherwise you spoil the purity of the situation. The best icons are simply range-only for all. They are small and make up for lack of stereo vision in this sim.

georgeo76
12-19-2003, 04:26 PM
Believe me, Ivan knows what he's talking about. He's got one of the smoothest servers going. You'll find me there (VFC*Host) almost every night for those who would like to shoot some APs @ my big mouth http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/images/alex.jpg
"Oh bliss, bliss and heaven. Oh, it was gorgeousness and gorgeosity made flesh. It was like a bird of rarest spun heaven metal, or like silvery wine flowing in a space ship, gravity all nonsense now. As I slooshied I knew such lovely pictures."
Fiend's Wings (http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend)

A.K.Davis
12-19-2003, 06:02 PM
A couple additional observations just from my experience with creating and then adjusting a map for online play, and with playing online in general.

1. Map size is more important than number of objects (except for static planes). It is best to use the online maps for large dogfights. Likewise, object density is more important than number of objects when it comes to visual smoothness. 100 objects in one small area is much worse than 200 objects spread all over the map. Realism is also a factor here.

3. Even many good dedicated servers start to show performance degradation above 16-18 players. Don't think that just because you've gone dedicated, you can double the number of players.

4. Even pre-loading aircraft cannot prevent stuttering on servers that offer all planes available. This is seldom logical anyways, as most players will only fly 2 or 3 types per side. If you want to have a late-war server, just load the late-war planes.

5. If you are creating a two-team map, consider orienting the teams north-south rather than east-west (if it is a summer map). This way you can set the time early or late (which looks better and offers improved visibility), without giving one side or the other the "out-of-the-sun" advantage. Even though Germany is west of Russia, this does not mean all battles took place along an east-west line. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For winter maps, do an east-west orientation, because the sun will be low in the South.

6. For scripted servers, set the number of planes available greater than the number of pilots. If the planes and pilots are of equal numbers, players will have no motivation to return to friendly lines or to try and survive in a crippled bird. When a player is hit, the airframe is generally lost, but what reason is there to save the pilot if each pilot only gets one airframe? Why not just fight to the death everytime and try to take an enemy with you?

I'm sure I'll think of more.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

LeadSpitter_
12-19-2003, 06:08 PM
No padlock and no externals ='s great fun and of course historical planesets, ijn over normandy just seems so wrong

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt

crazyivan1970
12-20-2003, 06:28 PM
Padlock is a tricky subject hehe

V!
Regards,

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

willyvic
12-20-2003, 07:00 PM
Good Post! Might I suggest you repeat it on other sites/forums as many of the hosts on hyperlobbby do not seem to visit us much if at all. IE: Netwings, SimHQ, etc. I long for a limited aircraft server most nights...hehe.

http://www.rcaf-squadron.org/willyvic/images/mig3u.jpg

FuryFighter
12-21-2003, 03:09 AM
hehe as for staci a/c... my suggestion is not to place them on the spawn points. Many times have I tried to play but been unable as FB seems to put me in the same point on each map, never changes, and there are static planes there.

http://www.angelfire.com/space2/messerschmitt262/sig_test.jpg

F19_Ob
12-21-2003, 04:18 AM
god thread mates

Aviar
12-21-2003, 04:31 AM
I have been pre-loading flyable planes since the good old IL-2 days. I used to put them all in a corner of the map. I also usually place static planes as targets under those titanium camo tents.

What I've been doing lately is using the pre-loaded planes as the targets and this way cutting down the total number of objects on the map. What I've always wondered is, if these planes are destroyed, are they still 'working' to help alleviate the pauses? I think they do, but I've never done a real test to prove it. What do you think?

I also wish Oleg would give us a command to respawn static objects. If I want stuff to respawn, I have to use objects like Stationary Armor or Artillery, which have AI and eat up valuable cpu cycles. When I want to simulate a holding area for a large group of tanks (to use as a bombing target) and want them to respawn, I can only use Stationary Armor. This looks silly when you attack them and they all start shooting at you with their main guns. After all, I am trying to simulate unmanned vehicles which will respawn after being destroyed. What I end up doing is placing a larger number of static tanks than I really want. You see, if your server is open for an extended time, you want to make sure you don't run out of ground targets.

I would rather place a smaller amount of static targets that could respawn and use less cpu cycles.

Aviar

S 8
12-21-2003, 11:33 AM
The "hardest" room I´ve played in had 16 armies,all planes,no icons,although external on but I´ll tell you,it was really hard to judge whom was on your side.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_113_1071340065.jpg

GoodKn1ght
12-21-2003, 08:05 PM
i like your server keep up the good work.