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BH-21
06-17-2006, 02:33 PM
Has this been addressed in 4.06? Its preventing alot of D3A1 missions from being made and other Japanese ground attack missions.

The graphics for the bomb blast are ok, at least they seem to be relative to others in that weight class, but the blast and fragmentation effects are 4 to 5 times greater then a bomb in that class. Its very sadening to see one bomb wipe out half or an entire airfields defense. To check it for your self drop one in a city and watch the trees disappear.

LEBillfish
06-18-2006, 09:01 AM
Please make a comparative Ntrk.....

stylepolizei
08-19-2006, 06:35 AM
I noticed the same. The blast radius is very large compared to other bombs of that size.
Here´s a 4.05m ntrk to show.

http://www.freefilehosting.net/?id=rdnwlKnZ/Q==

JG53Frankyboy
08-19-2006, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Please make a comparative Ntrk.....

load this small one in a mission.file via a texteditor

[MAIN]
MAP Net1Summer/load.ini
TIME 12.0
CloudType 0
CloudHeight 1000.0
army 1
playerNum 0
[Wing]
g0100
[g0100]
Planes 2
Skill 3
Class air.D3A1
Fuel 100
weapons 1x250
[g0100_Way]
NORMFLY 37540.65 15024.31 500.00 350.00 &0
NORMFLY 30250.03 14943.76 500.00 350.00 &0
GATTACK 19455.08 14984.04 500.00 350.00 1_Static 0 &0
NORMFLY 1772.31 14742.36 500.00 350.00 &0
[NStationary]
0_Static vehicles.stationary.Stationary$Chevrolet_flatbed_U S 1 19185.66 15011.82 360.00 0.0
1_Static vehicles.stationary.Stationary$Chevrolet_flatbed_U S 1 19161.20 15028.78 360.00 0.0
2_Static vehicles.stationary.Stationary$Chevrolet_flatbed_U S 1 19143.21 15049.29 360.00 0.0
3_Static vehicles.stationary.Stationary$Chevrolet_flatbed_U S 1 19173.86 15020.76 360.00 0.0
[Buildings]
[Bridge]
[House]


than watch the bombimpact.
than try the same with Ju87B with 1xSC250 and SBD3 with 1x500lb ...................
you will see the difference.

VW-IceFire
08-19-2006, 08:38 AM
Is there a reason why the explosive power is higher? It seems like a generally useless bomb to me. When it does hit...its nice that it does blow up in a decent fashion because otherwise the Japanese have no striking power at all.

JG53Frankyboy
08-19-2006, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Is there a reason why the explosive power is higher? It seems like a generally useless bomb to me. When it does hit...its nice that it does blow up in a decent fashion because otherwise the Japanese have no striking power at all.

when you are attacking tanks or ships , there is no difference in desctruction power to other 250kg/500lb bombs

J_Anonymous
08-19-2006, 08:52 AM
IJN had ground attacking bombs and ship attacking bombs, right? (Recalling that famous story about replacing two different bomb types on carriers when SBD came down in Midway.....) But there is only one choice of bomb in the game, which means in one way or the other, the bomb is not accurately modeled for armour piercing power or area bombing power, I would guess.

VW-IceFire
08-19-2006, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by J_Anonymous:
IJN had ground attacking bombs and ship attacking bombs, right? (Recalling that famous story about replacing two different bomb types on carriers when SBD came down in Midway.....) But there is only one choice of bomb in the game, which means in one way or the other, the bomb is not accurately modeled for armour piercing power or area bombing power, I would guess.
That was the choice between torpedoes and bombs I had thought. Although I think they had a deck peircing bomb for the dive bombers so you could be right.

I'm just wondering if there is a reason why maybe the Japanese 250kg has a wide area effect. Perhaps a particular type of explosive or explosive charge is used to generate the area effect?

JG53Frankyboy
08-19-2006, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by J_Anonymous:
IJN had ground attacking bombs and ship attacking bombs, right? (Recalling that famous story about replacing two different bomb types on carriers when SBD came down in Midway.....) But there is only one choice of bomb in the game, which means in one way or the other, the bomb is not accurately modeled for armour piercing power or area bombing power, I would guess.

well the LW has SC, SD and PC bombs in game.
i see no difference between them
a carrier needs 2000kg to sink it, what ever kind of bomb you will use.

p1ngu666
08-19-2006, 05:55 PM
thats 8 bombs worth for the japanese,

if its only 2000kg thats needed, a lanc or a b29 could get 5 carriers each http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

J_Anonymous
08-19-2006, 09:48 PM
I did some internet search, and it seems that D3N used regular 250kg bombs rather than armour percing, at least at Pearl and against RN ships in Indian Ocean in 1941 - early 1942. B5N could level bomb with "Type99-Number80" 800kg armour percing bomb (which was modified from the Nagato class battle ship shell). Regular bombs had thinner exterior metal shell which maximizes the amount of explosive inside, easy to explode, and spread out metal fragments. I am not sure if there was ever 250kg armour percing bombs for D3N.

theRealAntEater
08-20-2006, 04:49 PM
Normally a D3A squadron used mixed loadouts against naval targets
250 kg SAP bombs and 240 kg HE (or the other way round, one was 240 kg).
Against carriers, the first aircraft to dive usually carried HE to supress flak, while the later ones carried SAP bombs.

LEBillfish
08-20-2006, 08:12 PM
To answer as to the "common" types available (no doubt others used).....As to explosive capability "in comparison" that will take some checking.

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/bill_sanborn/phmod21.pdf

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/bryan_wilburn/ijaaf_bombs.htm

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/bryan_wilburn/IJAAF_Bomb_diagrams.JPG

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/bryan_wilburn/ijnaf_torpedos.htm


Bomb explosive ratios for some types......

RAF: Bombs were classified by their CWR (Charge-to-Weight-Ratio) the percentage of explosive compared to the gross weight of the weapon. GP (General Purpose used first 2 years of war) bombs had a CWR of 30-35% meaning that most of the weight of these bombs consisted of metal casing not explosive. MC (Medium Capacity) bombs had a CWR of 40-50%.

German: SC = SPRENGBOMBE CYLINDRICH - designed for maximum blast effect having a high charge-to-weight ratio of 55 per cent explosive SC bombs were used primarily for general demolition.

U.S.: AN-M64 GP 500 lb 262 lb

Japanese: http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/japanese-250kg-bomb.html
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/japanese_air_bombs.html

Will keep looking for japanese ratio......Though know the type of explosive also makes a difference.

BBB_Hyperion
08-21-2006, 12:55 AM
Just post the type of explosive .) and tnt equivalent can be found.

LEBillfish
08-21-2006, 11:40 AM
Well looking at the last link I posted showing a rather unique HE/Incendiary bomb weighing in at 250kg.......It makes note of something of value. The bomb explodes driving out the incendiary cannisters which burn (so much like a cluster bomb though using explosive for dispersal).

The radius the cannisters will reach is 176 YARDS...................

Ok, lets think about this. The lions share of the bomb are incendiary cannisters. Meaning, there is very little HE force as it is used primarily for dispersal. What if the entire bomb was filled with HE, and had a thicker shell for fragmentation yet more so to make use of the explosion.

In any case, the bomb above gets a 176 yard radius, or, a 352 yard blast diameter (though granted they're discussing activating it roughly 150-200' above the ground and the cannisters found so far could have bounced some.

So lets knock the 352 yard diameter down to 200, even though we realize now the bomb itself if all HE would become rather lethal.

200 yards...........2 football fields across.......and we're talking about what in the sim?..........Our 2,000kg bombs don't do that. In fairness lets say concussive effect really only works out to 100 yards.....Now I've more then 1/3rded it.......

Now step out your door and walk 100 paces remembering we're being generous......

It's not that the Japanese bombs are over powered, they're infact probably under powered. So try this instead of which you'll find numerous discussions on the subject.....

"Bombs in IL2 are tremendously under powered..."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif